So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
My point is that people who are mentally ill are not always capable of rational thought and it's a very difficult area. Someone who is making a serious attempt to commit suicide doesn't always think about others when trying to end it.
I've worked on a trauma ward in a hospital and come across numerous failed suicide attempts where people have endured horrific injuries and caused great distress to family etc. The vast majority I spoke to just wanted to end it because life had become unbearable.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
My point is that people who are mentally ill are not always capable of rational thought and it's a very difficult area. Someone who is making a serious attempt to commit suicide doesn't always think about others when trying to end it.
I've worked on a trauma ward in a hospital and come across numerous failed suicide attempts where people have endured horrific injuries and caused great distress to family etc. The vast majority I spoke to just wanted to end it because life had become unbearable.
A very difficult subject...
Thanks for the work you do hoof it. That can't have been easy, but it's very important.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
My point is that people who are mentally ill are not always capable of rational thought and it's a very difficult area. Someone who is making a serious attempt to commit suicide doesn't always think about others when trying to end it.
I've worked on a trauma ward in a hospital and come across numerous failed suicide attempts where people have endured horrific injuries and caused great distress to family etc. The vast majority I spoke to just wanted to end it because life had become unbearable.
A very difficult subject...
Thanks for the work you do hoof it. That can't have been easy, but it's very important.
What I've seen is that anyone can suffer from mental illness no matter what age, race etc they are. Some get better and some learn how to manage it.
It's a subject that people are terrified of and the right type of support isn't always available. The community trust are active in this area and run some excellent schemes.
We ask an awful lot of healthcare staff and sometimes their needs are overlooked when it comes to mental health. It's a very stressful environment at times.
I hope CC is found and finds a way to manage his condition.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
My point is that people who are mentally ill are not always capable of rational thought and it's a very difficult area. Someone who is making a serious attempt to commit suicide doesn't always think about others when trying to end it.
I've worked on a trauma ward in a hospital and come across numerous failed suicide attempts where people have endured horrific injuries and caused great distress to family etc. The vast majority I spoke to just wanted to end it because life had become unbearable.
A very difficult subject...
By definition mentally ill people are not fully in control of what their brain is doing.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
My point is that people who are mentally ill are not always capable of rational thought and it's a very difficult area. Someone who is making a serious attempt to commit suicide doesn't always think about others when trying to end it.
I've worked on a trauma ward in a hospital and come across numerous failed suicide attempts where people have endured horrific injuries and caused great distress to family etc. The vast majority I spoke to just wanted to end it because life had become unbearable.
A very difficult subject...
Thanks for the work you do hoof it. That can't have been easy, but it's very important.
What I've seen is that anyone can suffer from mental illness no matter what age, race etc they are. Some get better and some learn how to manage it.
It's a subject that people are terrified of and the right type of support isn't always available. The community trust are active in this area and run some excellent schemes.
We ask an awful lot of healthcare staff and sometimes their needs are overlooked when it comes to mental health. It's a very stressful environment at times.
I hope CC is found and finds a way to manage his condition.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
I was offended.
Sadly it's this sort of misunderstanding of mental illness that leads to stigma and many suffering in silence.
Imagine what it's like to spend every waking minute in mental torment you cannot escape from. To feel so utterly dreadful that trying to take your own life can seem like the only option, the only way to escape the horror. Your mind, your ways of seeing things, can be so distorted that you believe there is no other way round this. It's not a selfish act - far from it - you actually believe that although your loved ones may feel sad, in the long run they will be much better off without you, that the world is a better place without you.
So......we are saying that an act cannot be decried whenever the main actor may not be fully in control of their decision making for whatever reason?
Do you actually believe there is such a thing as mental illness and that it may impact someone's thought process?
Yes I do.....I am saying that in my opinion an act act can still be 'wrong' regardless of the thought process that leads to it.
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
I was offended.
Sadly it's this sort of misunderstanding of mental illness that leads to stigma and many suffering in silence.
Imagine what it's like to spend every waking minute in mental torment you cannot escape from. To feel so utterly dreadful that trying to take your own life can seem like the only option, the only way to escape the horror. Your mind, your ways of seeing things, can be so distorted that you believe there is no other way round this. It's not a selfish act - far from it - you actually believe that although your loved ones may feel sad, in the long run they will be much better off without you, that the world is a better place without you.
The very nature of depression means that you can completely lack the capacity to think of yourself or others. If you don't get that, please just show some respect.
This in a nut shell. Ive had severe anxiety and proved such an interesting case that i got passed around treatment wise without any one actually treating. When your in it you cant see beyond it plain and simple. Clarke Carilse ive always followed and i wish him well, nearer to home us cafc fans was leon mckenzie, his big regret in football was lettinf charlton down (words to that effect used by him in his auto) when inflicted by depression
I hope he goes to try and kill himself some where a little more quite this time round. The family of the poor lorry driver really don't need all this bullshit brought back up again.
I'm assuming you're one of those types that encourage people to jump off tall buildings if they're feeling suicidal. I feel sorry for you.</
No not at all, in fact the complete opposite. Having lost two close friends to suiced I'm talking from first hand experience. Maybe I've worded it a little wrong. All I was saying is that if you feel the need to kill yourself then please don't bring other inconet people into that's all. I'm not sure if everyone knows the full after story of the last incident.
I appreciate what you are saying re: the impact on the van driver and the psychological damage it would've done to him, but as others have said, mental illness can consume the mind in the same way cancer can consume the body. Just as cancer breaks you down physically so you cannot perform or do certain tasks and become physically so weak you need to be cared for and have things done for you by other people, mental illness completely takes the person's mind so that they can't think for themselves
I 100% don't want that to come across as condescending as you've lost 2 friends first hand to suicide, just wanted to put across what I understand to be what happens when someone is suffering
Others who know more on this subject can prob give you a better summary
At the point where Clarke had made his decision to jump in front of the van/lorry he was in such a state of mind where he was seriously unwell surely he can't in anyone's mind be responsible for his actions , it probably plays out on his current psychological state just as much as what he was going to do
At the point where Clarke had made his decision to jump in front of the van/lorry he was in such a state of mind where he was seriously unwell surely he can't in anyone's mind be responsible for his actions , it probably plays out on his current psychological state just as much as what he was going to do
Exactly depression and other states leaves you unable to think about anything other than the World will be better off without you. You feel you are a burden on your loved ones etc.
I can't believe some of the comments on here and I have had to support my wife through two of her family committing suicide and also had to attend a fair few through the fire service, yet I still can sympathise.
I always think of the damage that it would do to someones wife and kids if they did manage to follow these things through
How would they live with it and cope
Darkness can find everyone so it's not something that should be so flippantly pre judged
My family mean everything to me and is my leveller can you imagine how tough things must be when the love of your kids and wife/husband is not enough to pull you back towards the balance
I love my work I love the way it's moving forward the people I am involved with motivate me and inspire
But I don't for one minute take for granted that something can change in a heart beat through no fault of your own
I'm just reading first hand accounts from WW1 (Somme/Ypres salient) one Tommy describes how he was detailed to be in a firing squad to shoot a deserter who had clearly 'lost it' with shell shock. The only order a Tommy could refuse was to be in a firing squad, so he refused, it would appear that some lifers would be happy to send the ball! FFS if someone has mental illness they don't make rational decisions and should be comforted and helped though their ordeal, not castigated on a fucking football forum. I wish Mr Carlisle all the strength he needs in his fight against the black dog.
3 young men I know have now taken their own lives in the last 3 weeks, I only found out about the last two this morning - our GP (Early 40's at a guess), a 16 year old relative through marriage and the 21 year old son and brother of a couple of English fellas I know over here.
I'm just reading first hand accounts from WW1 (Somme/Ypres salient) one Tommy describes how he was detailed to be in a firing squad to shoot a deserter who had clearly 'lost it' with shell shock. The only order a Tommy could refuse was to be in a firing squad, so he refused, it would appear that some lifers would be happy to send the ball! FFS if someone has mental illness they don't make rational decisions and should be comforted and helped though their ordeal, not castigated on a fucking football forum. I wish Mr Carlisle all the strength he needs in his fight against the black dog.
I thought soldiers were also able to refuse to carry out an illegal order. What that might be is another matter, but I have always imagined it would at least include rounding up civilians and killing them. How would a soldier know what is or isn't an illegal order, or am I completely wrong about this?
3 young men I know have now taken their own lives in the last 3 weeks, I only found out about the last two this morning - our GP (Early 40's at a guess), a 16 year old relative through marriage and the 21 year old son and brother of a couple of English fellas I know over here.
RIP
That's so sad. RIP.
My cousin took his own life when he was 29. His funeral was packed - people had to stand outside as they didn't all fit in. If there had been just one of those people he felt he could talk to...... Some people hide their demons so well. Stigma has a big part to play in this and Clarke has helped with this within the sporting world.
Comments
I'm not talking in the eyes of the law here....and I'm not even talking about mental illness.
I'm just trying to understand where people think the line is between acts, outcomes and capacity of the main actor (again - not just related to mental illness).
I didn't mean to offend anyone (although I obviously did) - so I'll leave it there.
As stated in my original post.....let's hope they find him ok.
I've worked on a trauma ward in a hospital and come across numerous failed suicide attempts where people have endured horrific injuries and caused great distress to family etc. The vast majority I spoke to just wanted to end it because life had become unbearable.
A very difficult subject...
What is up with some people.
Peace and Love
It's a subject that people are terrified of and the right type of support isn't always available. The community trust are active in this area and run some excellent schemes.
We ask an awful lot of healthcare staff and sometimes their needs are overlooked when it comes to mental health. It's a very stressful environment at times.
I hope CC is found and finds a way to manage his condition.
I was offended.
Sadly it's this sort of misunderstanding of mental illness that leads to stigma and many suffering in silence.
Imagine what it's like to spend every waking minute in mental torment you cannot escape from. To feel so utterly dreadful that trying to take your own life can seem like the only option, the only way to escape the horror. Your mind, your ways of seeing things, can be so distorted that you believe there is no other way round this. It's not a selfish act - far from it - you actually believe that although your loved ones may feel sad, in the long run they will be much better off without you, that the world is a better place without you.
I really hope he's found safe.
I hope for all concerned he is found safe and well.
@SuedeAdidas I kind of understand your point but you should learn to phrase it slightly different if you don't want to have people moaning at you.
I appreciate what you are saying re: the impact on the van driver and the psychological damage it would've done to him, but as others have said, mental illness can consume the mind in the same way cancer can consume the body. Just as cancer breaks you down physically so you cannot perform or do certain tasks and become physically so weak you need to be cared for and have things done for you by other people, mental illness completely takes the person's mind so that they can't think for themselves
I 100% don't want that to come across as condescending as you've lost 2 friends first hand to suicide, just wanted to put across what I understand to be what happens when someone is suffering
Others who know more on this subject can prob give you a better summary
I can't believe some of the comments on here and I have had to support my wife through two of her family committing suicide and also had to attend a fair few through the fire service, yet I still can sympathise.
How would they live with it and cope
Darkness can find everyone so it's not something that should be so flippantly pre judged
My family mean everything to me and is my leveller can you imagine how tough things must be when the love of your kids and wife/husband is not enough to pull you back towards the balance
I love my work I love the way it's moving forward the people I am involved with motivate me and inspire
But I don't for one minute take for granted that something can change in a heart beat through no fault of your own
Mental health ain't a game it's serious shit
FFS if someone has mental illness they don't make rational decisions and should be comforted and helped though their ordeal, not castigated on a fucking football forum.
I wish Mr Carlisle all the strength he needs in his fight against the black dog.
RIP
How would a soldier know what is or isn't an illegal order, or am I completely wrong about this?
My cousin took his own life when he was 29. His funeral was packed - people had to stand outside as they didn't all fit in. If there had been just one of those people he felt he could talk to...... Some people hide their demons so well. Stigma has a big part to play in this and Clarke has helped with this within the sporting world.