It's been said before, so I might as well say it again.
Clearcut goal scoring chances have been missed - the home games against Millwall, Ipswich and Cardiff, plus the failure to see out the Blackpool game - has cost us up to 8 points during the last month alone.
Even if only a couple of those chances had been converted, particularly the last minute 1-on 1 against both Millwall and Cardiff, we'd be in a higher and healthier position. And we wouldn't be having this thread.
Is it Peeter's fault that Tucadean and Vetokele should have scored but missed? Like us, he would normally expect those clear cut chances to be scored.
We have one effective striker and he is obviously not fully fit and hasn't been for a while. It's a huge part of why we can't win games. I feel sure if we had a competitive fit strike force we would be at least half a dozen points better off.
If this glaring problem isn't addressed adequately in January then I might start to get twitchy but I can't believe we won't sort it out.
I don't think Peeters has got much longer left here.
No wins in 7 league games now definitely won't help him. The Brighton game is huge for BP as we have two tricky away games at Watford & Wolves after so it could easily become no wins in 10 soon!
3+ new players need to join us in the first week of Jan to stop our drop down the table. On current form from the current bunch we are likely to be only 3 or 4 points of relegation come deadline day if we don't do our business early.
Fact is, who would we get in as a replacement? Another unknown Belgian? I think all managers should be given at least a year.
Considering he's working with a depleted squad made mainly of freebees bar our only striker who is now known to our opponents... he's not doing terribly.
Lets see who he's 'allowed' to bring in over the next month to add to our 1.5 strikers and youth filled team.
Agree pretty much.
If he can bring in HIS OWN players then hopefully we will see an upturn in fortune, but I am not holding my breath.
If Bikey and/or Vetokele hadn't fluffed excellent chances, we'd be two to three points better off already, that's just in the last few weeks, if Noel Hunt hadn't scored a belter against us in added time that would be one more point - that's conceivably five points we have missed out on in this one month. Not that I am making excuses for Bob with that, we shouldn't be needing to leave it to the ninety-whatever minute to score a winning goal (or to score any goal actually) but it shows there are very fine margins.
I am leery of laying too much blame on Peeters, I have maintained that the whole season has been a case of strong team, weak squad and now that the season is dragging on that is becoming increasingly more apparent. Bob's been more hit than miss with the signings bought in so far (whoever identified them first) so I guess he has earned at least a chance in the sales.
It's time for RD to show his cards, and even to a lesser extent perhaps Meire also - it's no secret we need reinforcing, Bob has been pretty clear for a while now that he needs more bodies. KM has talked the talk, now to walk the walk and show she isn't merely a spokeswoman I would say.
add George against Millwall into that too. BUT we gained points earlier in the season against say Wigan near the death so it's swings and roundabouts. We are where we are, that's the bottom line.
Fact is, who would we get in as a replacement? Another unknown Belgian? I think all managers should be given at least a year.
Considering he's working with a depleted squad made mainly of freebees bar our only striker who is now known to our opponents... he's not doing terribly.
Lets see who he's 'allowed' to bring in over the next month to add to our 1.5 strikers and youth filled team.
Agree pretty much.
If he can bring in HIS OWN players then hopefully we will see an upturn in fortune, but I am not holding my breath.
Not sure your highlighted comment is as important as you think. BP is a coach brought up in the continental system where it is most common for the head coach not to have the biggest say in the players he gets to coach. I'm not saying Bob doesn't have input but to think we now work along the lines of Curbs years is not valid.
I remember the win a Reading, the solid 1-0 win there, the cracking atmosphere from the away end (one of the best I can ever recall). It's hard to believe we've only picked up 4 points out of 21 since then...
seriously....so many on here saying 'I hope BP gets the support of RD in January'......'hope we get a few signings to strengthen the squad in January'.......'lets hope the January transfer window brings us a couple of decent players' etc. RD will NOT be spending money in January. We are not going to get promoted. We may just scrape into the top half. Why would he shell out loads of money in January when he can just rotate players from his other clubs? He is not an idiot. He knows that supporters get a little bit excited by any new face joining their club/team. He knows that by adding any player to a team, he is essentially 'building a bigger squad', giving BP more options......by rotating players we have never heard of from his network he is ticking all the boxes a football club owner needs to tick. I said it then and I'll say it now. He did not buy Charlton to succeed as a football club. He bought us to turn us into a shop window in the hope 1 or 2 players may have a good spell, attract a bit of interest and then be sold with an inflated price tag English clubs are prepared to pay. BP just needs to keep us up. Give younger players a run out so that that appear on other clubs radars and keep the fans on side. We are now a business. Not a football club. The 2 are very different. Sorry, but that's how I see it. And before anyone moans....I still bought a bloody season ticket, I still go to games, I still buy club merchandise etc. because I always will be a Charlton fan.
I don't buy the sharp distinction you make between a business and a club - it has to be a bit of both. However, what you put forward is the key question about Duchatelet. Why did he buy the club? Many believe it was to get promoted because that is the traditional model and because of the Premier League revenues, but neither his actions nor his communication prove that. Did he really think he could break even in the Championship by utilising his network or otherwise get promotion on the cheap? The reality is we still don't know what he is trying to do, although we will have more information from which to form an opinion at the end of January. If he sacks Peeters I will have to assume he is barking mad.
I remember the win a Reading, the solid 1-0 win there, the cracking atmosphere from the away end (one of the best I can ever recall). It's hard to believe we've only picked up 4 points out of 21 since then...
agree. fine lines though isn't it. if Igor hadn't have scored we would be ruing George's last minute miss and added another two points to the recently dropped points total.
Imo a paper thin squad on a shoe string budget doesn't help many managers, especially a young inexperienced one learning in an English league for the 1st time.
Roland would be mad to sack bob imo but then backing bob in Rolands view would be moving a player or 2 from another of his clubs and hoping they can do it in this league.
We could all see at the start of the season the squad would be light. We were always going to get injuries and suspensions and then you have Tuesday Saturday games with an even thinner squad. Desperately need reinforcements Roland me old pal.
Why is there such hatred towards zonal marking? You never hear the same dislike towards man marking.
Dunces that listen to dunces on Talksport believe it's inherently faulty. Most football analysis we are fed is stupid and most people cannot process the shit out.
Why is there such hatred towards zonal marking? You never hear the same dislike towards man marking.
Dunces that listen to dunces on Talksport believe it's inherently faulty. Most football analysis we are fed is stupid and most people cannot process the shit out.
Zonal marking usually leaves you with problems such as this. Balls whipped in and two of X team's strongest header's of the ball flock towards the ball, Cousins & Solly for us, a good ball whipped into Zonal marking is far more likely to cause problems than a well man marked one. Stick your big men on theirs, if they are on the right side of the man and are switched on they can prevent danger. Stick a 5ft man in a 6ft6's zone and there's simply not much he can do if it's whipped at height
That's why you put short players in positions where they won't be competing with 6ft6 strikers. Solly has been on the post all season, a position he no doubt filled last season in a man marking system.
My go-to man on football tactics, Jonathan Wilson, was asked a question about zonal marking (as well as formations) in an interview:
In recent seasons zonal marking, after use by Rafa Benitez, has been criticised, and more recently the ‘false nine’ system has been as much as ridiculed by some. What would you say is the most common misconception surrounding tactics?
I guess there’s two; zonal marking you’re right, people just don’t have a clue what it is, people don’t know the differences between zonal marking at set pieces and zonal marking in open play. Next to nobody does anything other than zonal marking in open play now, and for the last 40 years, so this idea that zonal marking is a funny foreign idea and it confuses people is just nonsense. Zonal marking at set plays, when it goes wrong it’s very easily to highlight, but teams who man-mark also concede goals at corners and free kicks, and very rarely is that picked out in the same way. And again the idea that zonal marking is a strange foreign idea, Brian Clough used it; one of the great anti-intellectualists in English football used zonal marking at set plays. He wouldn’t have called it zonal marking but he just said to his players: “Basically, one on each post, scatter around the six-yard box, attack the ball if it comes near you,” and it’s that easy, that’s all zonal marking is. It’s a little bit more specific than that, but that’s what it is in essence. Rather than trying to pick up a player and possibly running into traffic, you take command of the area around you, that’s it theoretically. It is an easy thing to pick out, but it’s one of things were people only notice when it goes wrong. For instance, when Benitez left Liverpool, if you look at that season following, Reina got crowded an awful lot, the reason for that was because they stopped zonal marking at set pieces. One of the dangers of man marking at set pieces is you get bodies packed around your goalkeeper. Defenders follow the forward into that area, and the goalkeeper suddenly finds that rather than three or four men around him, seven or eight men around him. So I’m not saying man marking is better or worse than zonal marking, they’re both systems with their own merits, but people just have a thing against zonal marking.
The other misconception is that playing with more strikers makes you more attacking. Formations are neutral; it’s how you apply them that gives them positive or negative qualities. If you play 4-6-0, your ‘6’ could be extremely attacking, or you could play 4-6-0 like Scotland did against the Czech Republic and be extremely defensive, it depends what players you put in those positions. So this idea that “Oh I’d like to see two up front, because that’s more attacking than one up front”, well it depends who your midfield four is. If you played 4-4-2 with lots of very hard working, non-technical midfielders, that 4-4-2 can be very defensive. If you play 4-2-3-1 where your ‘3’ are really skilful players, who are comfortable on the ball, and one of your ‘2’ maybe can pass it over long distances, that’s way more attacking than the 4-4-2 with the quite defensive ‘4’. So the idea that you can tell whether a team’s more attacking or defensive looking at the formation and the formation alone is nonsense.
Bob has been in charge of Charlton for 5 months and some of you don't think he's the man for the job? Come on lads stop embarrassing yourselves.
Under Peeters we've looked a very good side at times. That Derby performance at home was something else. All managers need time and I'm sure we'll go on a run of good results soon enough.
Bob has been in charge of Charlton for 5 months and some of you don't think he's the man for the job? Come on lads stop embarrassing yourselves.
Under Peeters we've looked a very good side at times. That Derby performance at home was something else. All managers need time and I'm sure we'll go on a run of good results soon enough.
That was a long time ago in footballing terms, and before Bob and our team got found out. He deserves more time but any manager would struggle given the owner and the way he will be doing things. It's why I'm so anti-RD, he is no real good for our football club as unfortunately I do not support our financial papers (of which he has not improved, in fact he has added money to while losing key assets and not improving the value of any).
Bob's got a big month ahead of him, if he's still about.
Hate zonal marking in Championship. Never seen a zone score a goal (cliché) more importantly allows the ATT to get the jump on you, get left flat footed most times.
Decent teams get stronger over a season as they bed down into a set pattern of play.
Tactics shouldn't be changed like we do, it's random and not like a change of formation specifically selected to counter oppo. I said after Norwich how shit we were and how that is unsustainable. Last night we started to play when the game was done.
If I saw BP playing the best players in their best positions (we have one player who would get in Champ XI and he is in midfield lol) and the sum always greater than the parts, then I would give him more slack.
This is just my opinion, I am not writing anyone off. I get the BP criticism because forget the results, we are organised like a two bob team and we are used to organisation and players playing above themselves as a minimum.
Signing a couple of decent players won't change the fact we aren't organised like we should be. Might gloss over it but we will still be playing some dusty Russian roulette football.
I don't know how to manage a team but I can spot the difference between strong Tactics and making it up as you go along. Come on BP lets get those partnerships working, play complimentary skillsets together and don't run before you can walk with withdrawn No.10s in the Championship.
There's been a lot of reactions to the latest defeat. Arguably, this defeat is the most predictable of all the recent results. Yes, it was 3-0 and could have been more, it would seem, as we caved in at the end, but it's just one game.
We are playing in a very tight division playing compact sides that don't give too much away. Once you have weaknesses, the opposition tend to exploit it. I don't think the quality of the first eleven is far off a decent Championship outfit. This was shown in the early part of the season when no one could beat us. The lack of a striker has been well documented and, seemingly, the one we do have seems to have been less than 100% fit for many games now.
We are now in the middle of the table, almost equidistant from play offs and the gloom of relegation. That's a position many teams are in. On the positive side, a decent run, Wiggins being fit, Vetokele being fully fit and a couple of signings could mean we end comfortably in mid-table or above. The biggest worry for me is the depth of the squad. At the risk of being a doom and gloom merchant, if Ben Haim gets sent off on Saturday and gets a 3-match ban, Onyewu is out for a few weeks, Wiggins doesn't return, another player gets injured, we could become whipping boys. Yes, that's a few ifs and buts and I could rightly be accused of pessimism, but we would be in trouble.
It's easy to say the next few games are important, but we need to stop the slide, win a couple of games, preferably easily, and this season's mission will have been completed to my mind. If the bad run continues, I worry that we find winning "impossible". I hope we take the Blackburn seriously and field a full side. A win would be precious right now.
All this trouble stemming from the absence of Wiggins for such a long period. Lucky Powell never had to contend with such an insurmountable problem during his time....
Bob has been in charge of Charlton for 5 months and some of you don't think he's the man for the job? Come on lads stop embarrassing yourselves.
Under Peeters we've looked a very good side at times. That Derby performance at home was something else. All managers need time and I'm sure we'll go on a run of good results soon enough.
That was a long time ago in footballing terms, and before Bob and our team got found out. He deserves more time but any manager would struggle given the owner and the way he will be doing things. It's why I'm so anti-RD, he is no real good for our football club as unfortunately I do not support our financial papers (of which he has not improved, in fact he has added money to while losing key assets and not improving the value of any).
Bob's got a big month ahead of him, if he's still about.
Sorry but you are going to have to explain to me how RD has not improved our financial position.
what you put forward is the key question about Duchatelet. Why did he buy the club? ....... The reality is we still don't know what he is trying to do, although we will have more information from which to form an opinion at the end of January..
I have taken these snippets from Airmans post because it is nail on the head.
I would like to ask Mr D if he knows what motivates us to attend matches.
When he took over Mr D explained to us in a sense of almost innocent wonderment, that football fans gather to interact with fellow friends and supporters. To that end the new regime has attempted to make that experience better, the freshened up stadium, new seats, new pitch, new pictures on the walls, new catering, new programme sellers, the 'sea of red', pricing structure for tickets and so on.
Most of the above has been a decent effort motivated by good instincts, however naïve in some areas. We have also been tantalised by the prospect of the Sparrows Lane development, and intrigued by the potential of the University of Greenwich link up.
However, is all of that stuff a reason for us to keep attending matches? It is all well and good as far as it goes, but the remaining fundamental, the purpose of Charlton Athletic Football is to my mind becoming more and more obfuscated.
I like to go to a nice stadium, see friends and all that, but I also want success and progress on the pitch. This season I have learned that draws are not only one point, but it is like treading water whilst I wait to see where we are going. I am confused by the voracity of the business model, the influence of financial fair play, and in particular the staff churn as dictated by our position in the network.
Maybe there is going to eventually be jam tomorrow, but I wouldn't mind a bit of marmalade today. Why bother to attend matches these days beyond my blind loyalty?
For example to my mind (Astrit and Yoni notwithstanding) the only SL player who has arrived and truly impressed me as a genuine improvement is TBH, yet we have a string of network players in and out of our doors, and I haven't a clue why. The unsettling effect of all the changes, the work in progress nature of things that now seems to resemble painting the Forth Bridge, and the results, have not made me feel more committed, but actually more alienated.
I shall go to Dulwich Hamlet v Leatherhead tomorrow afternoon with my nephew, and to the cup game on Saturday, and I know which one I'm looking forward to most.
If the new regime has a tale to tell then I am waiting to hear it, they say actions speak louder than words but so far the actions seem like an endlessly long preface, and I am still waiting for the story to start.
Bob has been in charge of Charlton for 5 months and some of you don't think he's the man for the job? Come on lads stop embarrassing yourselves.
Under Peeters we've looked a very good side at times. That Derby performance at home was something else. All managers need time and I'm sure we'll go on a run of good results soon enough.
That was a long time ago in footballing terms, and before Bob and our team got found out. He deserves more time but any manager would struggle given the owner and the way he will be doing things. It's why I'm so anti-RD, he is no real good for our football club as unfortunately I do not support our financial papers (of which he has not improved, in fact he has added money to while losing key assets and not improving the value of any).
Bob's got a big month ahead of him, if he's still about.
Sorry but you are going to have to explain to me how RD has not improved our financial position.
Comments
Clearcut goal scoring chances have been missed - the home games against Millwall, Ipswich and Cardiff, plus the failure to see out the Blackpool game - has cost us up to 8 points during the last month alone.
Even if only a couple of those chances had been converted, particularly the last minute 1-on 1 against both Millwall and Cardiff, we'd be in a higher and healthier position. And we wouldn't be having this thread.
Is it Peeter's fault that Tucadean and Vetokele should have scored but missed?
Like us, he would normally expect those clear cut chances to be scored.
If this glaring problem isn't addressed adequately in January then I might start to get twitchy but I can't believe we won't sort it out.
If he can bring in HIS OWN players then hopefully we will see an upturn in fortune, but I am not holding my breath.
Roland would be mad to sack bob imo but then backing bob in Rolands view would be moving a player or 2 from another of his clubs and hoping they can do it in this league.
We could all see at the start of the season the squad would be light. We were always going to get injuries and suspensions and then you have Tuesday Saturday games with an even thinner squad. Desperately need reinforcements Roland me old pal.
Under Peeters we've looked a very good side at times. That Derby performance at home was something else. All managers need time and I'm sure we'll go on a run of good results soon enough.
Bob's got a big month ahead of him, if he's still about.
Decent teams get stronger over a season as they bed down into a set pattern of play.
Tactics shouldn't be changed like we do, it's random and not like a change of formation specifically selected to counter oppo. I said after Norwich how shit we were and how that is unsustainable. Last night we started to play when the game was done.
If I saw BP playing the best players in their best positions (we have one player who would get in Champ XI and he is in midfield lol) and the sum always greater than the parts, then I would give him more slack.
This is just my opinion, I am not writing anyone off. I get the BP criticism because forget the results, we are organised like a two bob team and we are used to organisation and players playing above themselves as a minimum.
Signing a couple of decent players won't change the fact we aren't organised like we should be. Might gloss over it but we will still be playing some dusty Russian roulette football.
I don't know how to manage a team but I can spot the difference between strong Tactics and making it up as you go along. Come on BP lets get those partnerships working, play complimentary skillsets together and don't run before you can walk with withdrawn No.10s in the Championship.
We are playing in a very tight division playing compact sides that don't give too much away. Once you have weaknesses, the opposition tend to exploit it. I don't think the quality of the first eleven is far off a decent Championship outfit. This was shown in the early part of the season when no one could beat us. The lack of a striker has been well documented and, seemingly, the one we do have seems to have been less than 100% fit for many games now.
We are now in the middle of the table, almost equidistant from play offs and the gloom of relegation. That's a position many teams are in. On the positive side, a decent run, Wiggins being fit, Vetokele being fully fit and a couple of signings could mean we end comfortably in mid-table or above. The biggest worry for me is the depth of the squad. At the risk of being a doom and gloom merchant, if Ben Haim gets sent off on Saturday and gets a 3-match ban, Onyewu is out for a few weeks, Wiggins doesn't return, another player gets injured, we could become whipping boys. Yes, that's a few ifs and buts and I could rightly be accused of pessimism, but we would be in trouble.
It's easy to say the next few games are important, but we need to stop the slide, win a couple of games, preferably easily, and this season's mission will have been completed to my mind. If the bad run continues, I worry that we find winning "impossible". I hope we take the Blackburn seriously and field a full side. A win would be precious right now.
I would like to ask Mr D if he knows what motivates us to attend matches.
When he took over Mr D explained to us in a sense of almost innocent wonderment, that football fans gather to interact with fellow friends and supporters. To that end the new regime has attempted to make that experience better, the freshened up stadium, new seats, new pitch, new pictures on the walls, new catering, new programme sellers, the 'sea of red', pricing structure for tickets and so on.
Most of the above has been a decent effort motivated by good instincts, however naïve in some areas. We have also been tantalised by the prospect of the Sparrows Lane development, and intrigued by the potential of the University of Greenwich link up.
However, is all of that stuff a reason for us to keep attending matches? It is all well and good as far as it goes, but the remaining fundamental, the purpose of Charlton Athletic Football is to my mind becoming more and more obfuscated.
I like to go to a nice stadium, see friends and all that, but I also want success and progress on the pitch. This season I have learned that draws are not only one point, but it is like treading water whilst I wait to see where we are going. I am confused by the voracity of the business model, the influence of financial fair play, and in particular the staff churn as dictated by our position in the network.
Maybe there is going to eventually be jam tomorrow, but I wouldn't mind a bit of marmalade today. Why bother to attend matches these days beyond my blind loyalty?
For example to my mind (Astrit and Yoni notwithstanding) the only SL player who has arrived and truly impressed me as a genuine improvement is TBH, yet we have a string of network players in and out of our doors, and I haven't a clue why. The unsettling effect of all the changes, the work in progress nature of things that now seems to resemble painting the Forth Bridge, and the results, have not made me feel more committed, but actually more alienated.
I shall go to Dulwich Hamlet v Leatherhead tomorrow afternoon with my nephew, and to the cup game on Saturday, and I know which one I'm looking forward to most.
If the new regime has a tale to tell then I am waiting to hear it, they say actions speak louder than words but so far the actions seem like an endlessly long preface, and I am still waiting for the story to start.
So you're basically saying:
'Spend loads of money, *right now*, or I can't be arsed' ?