I understand that official records need to be agreed. I don't understand the complete embargo that stops those there giving their impression of what was said. We're not talking official secrets are we. I don't believe the club would disclose sensitive commercial information in this forum. So apart from the club imposing their power because they can and the fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know, I can't see any reason that what is told to few fans can't be told to all.
Here are the minutes from the previous meeting in Sept.
Nothing very earth shattering but that isn't what the FF is meant to be about.
But it is there and it can be seen what was discussed.
Comment like "fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know" are uncalled and based on supposition IMHO but Fanny and the others can comment on that.
The board have to approve the minutes first, and then say something completely different to back them up
Sounds like a FIFA delegates investigation
Don't worry they've looked through the timeline and found that there is nothing to worry about - the correct decision was made.
There will however be a corruption investigation into anyone who lobbied for Riga or to re-visit last summers decision... Which was also found to be correct.
Here are the minutes from the previous meeting in Sept.
Nothing very earth shattering but that isn't what the FF is meant to be about.
But it is there and it can be seen what was discussed.
Comment like "fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know" are uncalled and based on supposition IMHO but Fanny and the others can comment on that.
Maybe it's all mundane and unexceptional so then why the secrecy. All that needed to be said about the latest meeting might have been that the governance of the club was not discussed as this wasn't the right forum.
I understand that official records need to be agreed. I don't understand the complete embargo that stops those there giving their impression of what was said. We're not talking official secrets are we. I don't believe the club would disclose sensitive commercial information in this forum. So apart from the club imposing their power because they can and the fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know, I can't see any reason that what is told to few fans can't be told to all.
" The fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know ".......Totally unfair comment IMO & an insult to those who give up their time to keep lines of communication with our Club open.
What system would you propose, iainment , to identify fans to sit on the Fans' Forum ? Those who will make the most noise ?
Those currently in place, as others have correctly pointed out, are representatives of all the Supporter Groups that currently exist, plus individuals speaking for Valley Away, Valley Express, the train travelling regulars, CAST & the Reminiscence Group. These supporters are active within their groups, hence regularly meeting with those they represent, whilst most, if not all are season ticket holders AND travel to a large number of away games each season. As a result, they are as good a cross section of fans I believe you could find to form a committee with the purpose of ensuring ongoing dialogue with Club personnel, especially the CEO.
As for "being in the know", it has already been pointed out that very little, if in fact any matters of a sensitive nature are discussed in these quarterly meetings. But, again as astute Lifers have indicated, minutes have to be circulated to those present in order to ensure that matters discussed have been recorded accurately, before approval by the CEO and then publication on the FF link on the OS. The VIP rep is currently responsible for this procedure and I'm certain will fulfil his role as soon as possible, work commitments permitting.
As far as razil's comments regarding Katrien's opening statement last night, it was clear that she would need to react to the abuse and accusations of lying that have been flying in her direction since the beginning of this week and the management issue. I felt that she did this with dignity, clearly & concisely detailing the course of events which followed the final whistle last Saturday. Whilst there was little difference between what she related last night and what we had already been made aware of, I am now definitely of the opinion that we were NOT lied to, albeit that the original explanation was somewhat lacking in detail which inevitably led us to doubt its validity. Katrien was clearly hurt & angered by the knowledge that so many supporters felt she & RD have lied regarding the process & her honesty questioned. I left the meeting feeling somewhat remorseful that I had harboured doubt when posting on here on Tuesday evening & should have apologised to her when I had the opportunity...
Now, I don't expect you all to take on board what I have posted here - why would you ? It will take far more than my thoughts to influence the views of some. But I hope that you will respect the fact that, having been taken to task once before around "leaking" a few days early my views around a previous meeting, I have bothered to respond to what was an unpalatable attempt to discredit myself and my colleagues.
And I would hope that those who know me will testify that my only raison d'etre is to be a very small cog in the growth & wellbeing of our Club.
Thank you for that, Fanny. Interesting to hear. You're right that I'm still not convinced, because the timeline seems so suspicious. If Katrien lied last week, maybe she is continuing to lie and is getting better at it. If however a timeframe for events is produced that is not just coherent, but also believable, then fair enough.
You talk about lines of communication with the club. The problem is that they are now stopped as far as non reps are concerned until the minutes are agreed. I have attended child protection case conferences where the minutes were agreed at the end of the meeting and disseminated to those who needed them by the end of the working day. Why can't you guys do this? I don't want to personalise this but if you accept this way of doing stuff you can expect minor kerfufles when the club goes through a crisis and any info is embargo'd in this way.
Thanks for your comments Fanny. Like Uboat, I'm not convinced that she was not lying either, though appreciate you heard her first hand. If she is hurt, then good, I'm hurt by what she and RD are doing to the club I love.
Thanks for taking the time to post this, Fanny, and for enlightening us a little more. I certainly appreciate the time and effort that volunteers put in to representing their groups to the Club.
I nevertheless continue to have a couple of concerns:
- Why should it be the role of a volunteer to take the minutes? Could a Club employee not do this, and then ensure a quick turnaround of the minutes? As I said above, I have no issue with the need to approve formal minutes before publicaiton, but it is crazy if these are not published till c two weeks after the meeting, especially at a time like this when the relationship between Club and fans is shaky to say the least.
- I still cannot get my head around how Katrien was not, at minimum, economical with the truth. She made a statement on Monday saying that the search would be thorough and for a long-term replacement, yet at the press conference unveiling Luzon, she said he became the favourite on Sunday night. Both of those statements cannot be totally true. As you know, I have met her, and found her to be a charming, engaging and intelligent person. However, I'm afraid I do now see her simply as there to do Roland's bidding without question, and have lost faith that she will in any way stand up for the interests of the fans and the club to Papa Smurf.
You talk about lines of communication with the club. The problem is that they are now stopped as far as non reps are concerned until the minutes are agreed. I have attended child protection case conferences where the minutes were agreed at the end of the meeting and disseminated to those who needed them by the end of the working day. Why can't you guys do this? I don't want to personalise this but if you accept this way of doing stuff you can expect minor kerfufles when the club goes through a crisis and any info is embargo'd in this way.
Possibly because a child protection case which involves the safety and wellbeing of a child is more important than a decision by a football club on the hiring process of a manager.
Regardless of the engagement of Katrien with the Fans Forum and indeed The Trust I think it might be better for her / the club to make a statement that every Charlton fan gets to hear rather than those of us that are football forum addicts or fan activists. The vast majority of the support won't get to hear it at all. I suggest SLP and other local publications as a start.
I understand that official records need to be agreed. I don't understand the complete embargo that stops those there giving their impression of what was said. We're not talking official secrets are we. I don't believe the club would disclose sensitive commercial information in this forum. So apart from the club imposing their power because they can and the fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know, I can't see any reason that what is told to few fans can't be told to all.
" The fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know ".......Totally unfair comment IMO & an insult to those who give up their time to keep lines of communication with our Club open.
What system would you propose, iainment , to identify fans to sit on the Fans' Forum ? Those who will make the most noise ?
Those currently in place, as others have correctly pointed out, are representatives of all the Supporter Groups that currently exist, plus individuals speaking for Valley Away, Valley Express, the train travelling regulars, CAST & the Reminiscence Group. These supporters are active within their groups, hence regularly meeting with those they represent, whilst most, if not all are season ticket holders AND travel to a large number of away games each season. As a result, they are as good a cross section of fans I believe you could find to form a committee with the purpose of ensuring ongoing dialogue with Club personnel, especially the CEO.
As for "being in the know", it has already been pointed out that very little, if in fact any matters of a sensitive nature are discussed in these quarterly meetings. But, again as astute Lifers have indicated, minutes have to be circulated to those present in order to ensure that matters discussed have been recorded accurately, before approval by the CEO and then publication on the FF link on the OS. The VIP rep is currently responsible for this procedure and I'm certain will fulfil his role as soon as possible, work commitments permitting.
As far as razil's comments regarding Katrien's opening statement last night, it was clear that she would need to react to the abuse and accusations of lying that have been flying in her direction since the beginning of this week and the management issue. I felt that she did this with dignity, clearly & concisely detailing the course of events which followed the final whistle last Saturday. Whilst there was little difference between what she related last night and what we had already been made aware of, I am now definitely of the opinion that we were NOT lied to, albeit that the original explanation was somewhat lacking in detail which inevitably led us to doubt its validity. Katrien was clearly hurt & angered by the knowledge that so many supporters felt she & RD have lied regarding the process & her honesty questioned. I left the meeting feeling somewhat remorseful that I had harboured doubt when posting on here on Tuesday evening & should have apologised to her when I had the opportunity...
Now, I don't expect you all to take on board what I have posted here - why would you ? It will take far more than my thoughts to influence the views of some. But I hope that you will respect the fact that, having been taken to task once before around "leaking" a few days early my views around a previous meeting, I have bothered to respond to what was an unpalatable attempt to discredit myself and my colleagues.
And I would hope that those who know me will testify that my only raison d'etre is to be a very small cog in the growth & wellbeing of our Club.
Good post. Personally, I still believe that the time between BP getting sacked and Luzon appointed meant that he was always going to be appointed, regardless of the other applicants. I'm not judging the Network model yet and on the whole, RD has done more good than bad IMO. The rumours on the other threads re: BP's treatment of players has probably accelerated this and if so RD was right to act. I'm still unsure of how honestly RD and KM communicated the recruitment process as well. Ton of issues in the grey area for me, but now we move on under Guy. COYR
You talk about lines of communication with the club. The problem is that they are now stopped as far as non reps are concerned until the minutes are agreed. I have attended child protection case conferences where the minutes were agreed at the end of the meeting and disseminated to those who needed them by the end of the working day. Why can't you guys do this? I don't want to personalise this but if you accept this way of doing stuff you can expect minor kerfufles when the club goes through a crisis and any info is embargo'd in this way.
Possibly because a child protection case which involves the safety and wellbeing of a child is more important than a decision by a football club on the hiring process of a manager.
Of course but there's no reason why minutes can't be agreed as each item is finished. Then you know the meeting agrees them whilst fresh in their mind and they don't get manipulated on their way to approval by someone who didn't even attend the meeting. Like M Duchatelet.
You talk about lines of communication with the club. The problem is that they are now stopped as far as non reps are concerned until the minutes are agreed. I have attended child protection case conferences where the minutes were agreed at the end of the meeting and disseminated to those who needed them by the end of the working day. Why can't you guys do this? I don't want to personalise this but if you accept this way of doing stuff you can expect minor kerfufles when the club goes through a crisis and any info is embargo'd in this way.
Possibly because a child protection case which involves the safety and wellbeing of a child is more important than a decision by a football club on the hiring process of a manager.
Of course but there's no reason why minutes can't be agreed as each item is finished. Then you know the meeting agrees them whilst fresh in their mind and they don't get manipulated on their way to approval by someone who didn't even attend the meeting. Like M Duchatelet.
I think you are rather deluded if you think Roland would have the slightest interest in the FF minutes...
Thanks for taking the time to post this, Fanny, and for enlightening us a little more. I certainly appreciate the time and effort that volunteers put in to representing their groups to the Club.
I nevertheless continue to have a couple of concerns:
- Why should it be the role of a volunteer to take the minutes? Could a Club employee not do this, and then ensure a quick turnaround of the minutes? As I said above, I have no issue with the need to approve formal minutes before publicaiton, but it is crazy if these are not published till c two weeks after the meeting, especially at a time like this when the relationship between Club and fans is shaky to say the least.
- I still cannot get my head around how Katrien was not, at minimum, economical with the truth. She made a statement on Monday saying that the search would be thorough and for a long-term replacement, yet at the press conference unveiling Luzon, she said he became the favourite on Sunday night. Both of those statements cannot be totally true. As you know, I have met her, and found her to be a charming, engaging and intelligent person. However, I'm afraid I do now see her simply as there to do Roland's bidding without question, and have lost faith that she will in any way stand up for the interests of the fans and the club to Papa Smurf.
not looking for a fight but she didn't say that, she said:
“It was a very difficult decision to reach,” said Meire.
“We had been very supportive of Bob until the very last moment, but the disappointing nature of performances and results in recent matches forced us to look at the situation.
“Despite recent rumours in the media we had not considered this option until after Saturday’s game.
“We have won just once in the past 12 matches and with the January transfer window open it is an important time of the season for the club.
“We feel this is the right decision for the club and I have asked Damian Matthew and Ben Roberts to take temporary charge. I have no doubts they will do an excellent job taking care of the side for the time being.
“We know how important it is to make sure this next appointment is the right one because I understand that this club needs and deserves a Head Coach who can plan and take charge for the long-term.
“I realise this decision has taken some by surprise, but there is still a lot to play for this season and we want to try and ensure the 2014/15 campaign ends as successfully as it started.”
so nowhere did she say it would be a thorough search and by appointing Luzon they believe they have made the right appointment. the only thing you can argue is how we all define 'long-term'.
But what about the line before that too? Sorry, but that whole statement reads like they will be taking their time to find the right person, not that they knew already who it was and were in the process of booking him a flight to The Valley!
I still don't trust the management of our club and it will be a long time until I do. As for the forum minutes there has to be a better way than is currently being used. Fanny - thanks for your clarification
Comments
Here are the minutes from the previous meeting in Sept.
Nothing very earth shattering but that isn't what the FF is meant to be about.
But it is there and it can be seen what was discussed.
Comment like "fans reps crawling to this because they like being in the know" are uncalled and based on supposition IMHO but Fanny and the others can comment on that.
There will however be a corruption investigation into anyone who lobbied for Riga or to re-visit last summers decision... Which was also found to be correct.
All that needed to be said about the latest meeting might have been that the governance of the club was not discussed as this wasn't the right forum.
What system would you propose, iainment , to identify fans to sit on the Fans' Forum ? Those who will make the most noise ?
Those currently in place, as others have correctly pointed out, are representatives of all the Supporter Groups that currently exist, plus individuals speaking for Valley Away, Valley Express, the train travelling regulars, CAST & the Reminiscence Group. These supporters are active within their groups, hence regularly meeting with those they represent, whilst most, if not all are season ticket holders AND travel to a large number of away games each season. As a result, they are as good a cross section of fans I believe you could find to form a committee with the purpose of ensuring ongoing dialogue with Club personnel, especially the CEO.
As for "being in the know", it has already been pointed out that very little, if in fact any matters of a sensitive nature are discussed in these quarterly meetings. But, again as astute Lifers have indicated, minutes have to be circulated to those present in order to ensure that matters discussed have been recorded accurately, before approval by the CEO and then publication on the FF link on the OS. The VIP rep is currently responsible for this procedure and I'm certain will fulfil his role as soon as possible, work commitments permitting.
As far as razil's comments regarding Katrien's opening statement last night, it was clear that she would need to react to the abuse and accusations of lying that have been flying in her direction since the beginning of this week and the management issue. I felt that she did this with dignity, clearly & concisely detailing the course of events which followed the final whistle last Saturday. Whilst there was little difference between what she related last night and what we had already been made aware of, I am now definitely of the opinion that we were NOT lied to, albeit that the original explanation was somewhat lacking in detail which inevitably led us to doubt its validity. Katrien was clearly hurt & angered by the knowledge that so many supporters felt she & RD have lied regarding the process & her honesty questioned. I left the meeting feeling somewhat remorseful that I had harboured doubt when posting on here on Tuesday evening & should have apologised to her when I had the opportunity...
Now, I don't expect you all to take on board what I have posted here - why would you ? It will take far more than my thoughts to influence the views of some. But I hope that you will respect the fact that, having been taken to task once before around "leaking" a few days early my views around a previous meeting, I have bothered to respond to what was an unpalatable attempt to discredit myself and my colleagues.
And I would hope that those who know me will testify that my only raison d'etre is to be a very small cog in the growth & wellbeing of our Club.
I have attended child protection case conferences where the minutes were agreed at the end of the meeting and disseminated to those who needed them by the end of the working day.
Why can't you guys do this?
I don't want to personalise this but if you accept this way of doing stuff you can expect minor kerfufles when the club goes through a crisis and any info is embargo'd in this way.
I nevertheless continue to have a couple of concerns:
- Why should it be the role of a volunteer to take the minutes? Could a Club employee not do this, and then ensure a quick turnaround of the minutes? As I said above, I have no issue with the need to approve formal minutes before publicaiton, but it is crazy if these are not published till c two weeks after the meeting, especially at a time like this when the relationship between Club and fans is shaky to say the least.
- I still cannot get my head around how Katrien was not, at minimum, economical with the truth. She made a statement on Monday saying that the search would be thorough and for a long-term replacement, yet at the press conference unveiling Luzon, she said he became the favourite on Sunday night. Both of those statements cannot be totally true. As you know, I have met her, and found her to be a charming, engaging and intelligent person. However, I'm afraid I do now see her simply as there to do Roland's bidding without question, and have lost faith that she will in any way stand up for the interests of the fans and the club to Papa Smurf.
“It was a very difficult decision to reach,” said Meire.
“We had been very supportive of Bob until the very last moment, but the disappointing nature of performances and results in recent matches forced us to look at the situation.
“Despite recent rumours in the media we had not considered this option until after Saturday’s game.
“We have won just once in the past 12 matches and with the January transfer window open it is an important time of the season for the club.
“We feel this is the right decision for the club and I have asked Damian Matthew and Ben Roberts to take temporary charge. I have no doubts they will do an excellent job taking care of the side for the time being.
“We know how important it is to make sure this next appointment is the right one because I understand that this club needs and deserves a Head Coach who can plan and take charge for the long-term.
“I realise this decision has taken some by surprise, but there is still a lot to play for this season and we want to try and ensure the 2014/15 campaign ends as successfully as it started.”
so nowhere did she say it would be a thorough search and by appointing Luzon they believe they have made the right appointment. the only thing you can argue is how we all define 'long-term'.
As for the forum minutes there has to be a better way than is currently being used.
Fanny - thanks for your clarification