If he's still big, strong and decent in the air he could do a job till the end of the season.
Not sure about a policy where we either sign/loan 19 y/o with no experience or 32+ y/o at the end of their careers, but he'd know more about champ defenses, how they bully and how to deal with it than anything we've got on our books.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
If it's true he refused to play to avoid a contract extension, a lot of people could argue against it quite easily.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
I will, Kermogant was offered another contract by us that he chose not to sign.
He then wanted to go to Bournemouth to sign a contract from them that we have been told was a better offer. RD cashed in, where's the problem in that then?
Kermogant wasn't sold because he was ageing, he was sold because HE wanted to leave!
"We need an experienced Championship hold up man!"
So we are linked with an experienced Championship hold up man...
"Why are we linked with this player, what will he add to the team?"
We are a mid table Championship side. The days of signing the Darren Bents, Shaun Bartletts, etc are over until we return to the Premiership.
I tell you what. Pick a list of players that you want, and bring them in. One rule. You have to pay for him yourself.
You're completely missing the point East Stand. The point is not necessarily the player selection (although personally I think it's questionable), the point is RD's decision-making is completely illogical and seems to change on a day to day basis.
And while we're on player selection, nobody's expecting us to sign a proven Championship striker as they cost 5 to 10m these days. But that doesn't mean that all you're left with is u19 players and pension collectors (I also doubt Fortune's wages will be especially cheap). With a proper management and scouting system I am sure there are hungry / angry players with the right personality out there who would probably want to play for charlton and who might not necessarily be the next Charlie Austin but could do a better job than Tucudean. Curbs successfully found these players for 15 years and I'll happily cover the transfer fee we paid for Yann Kermogant out of my own pocket - and he turned out okay.
Unfortunately a 70 year old bloke sat at a desk in belgium who has probably seen 1 training session and 1 match in the UK in an entire year is not going to find such players.
"We need an experienced Championship hold up man!"
So we are linked with an experienced Championship hold up man...
"Why are we linked with this player, what will he add to the team?"
We are a mid table Championship side. The days of signing the Darren Bents, Shaun Bartletts, etc are over until we return to the Premiership.
I tell you what. Pick a list of players that you want, and bring them in. One rule. You have to pay for him yourself.
It is strange, if think now some of our support have to get out of the mind set of bashing Katrien and Roland at any opportunity, at least till the end of the season! The players have to be shown now that this is the club we all support and we expect those who play for us to give 100% for the shirt no matter who owns us or who is manager. All the negativity we are showing now will only seep down to the players and have a detrimental effect on how they play. Lets stop giving them an excuse.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
If it's true he refused to play to avoid a contract extension, a lot of people could argue against it quite easily.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
I will, Kermogant was offered another contract by us that he chose not to sign.
He then wanted to go to Bournemouth to sign a contract from them that we have been told was a better offer. RD cashed in, where's the problem in that then?
Kermogant wasn't sold because he was ageing, he was sold because HE wanted to leave!
Not sure that last statement is correct. He wanted to leave because we weren't offering the deal he wanted. Could it be that we didn't offer a better deal because of his age?
That's it though Henry. Everything's so reactive. He dumped a load of players on Powell and sacked him presumably because he couldn't make it work with them, then went out in the summer and signed the sort of players (vetokele and gudmundsson) that Powell had been telling him we desperately needed. Then he dumped a load more on peeters, sacked him cos he wasn't doing the job with them; and a week later is going out to try quick fixes for the problems that peeters had identified.
I know there are other factors / variables, but his strategies are ludicrous and make no sense. Everything he does just seems to me to underline what a pig-headed arrogant **** he is.
When you analyse his strategy the only regular first teamers left from when he took over, just 12 months ago, are:
Church (rightly desperately trying to offload but would be a free anyway) Cousins (if a suitable offer came in he would sell) Harriott (see Cousins but any fee would be nominal) Jackson (too old to get anything for) Solly (knees probably wouldn't pass a medical) Wiggins (history of injuries off putting to potential buyers) Wilson (see Harriott but any fee would be nominal)
He has, during his ownership, brought in either on loan or by buying:
Smith Stephens Kermogant Alnwick Hamer Hollands Gower Green Dervite Parysczek Feely Wood Nego Reza Azeez Cook Poyet Pritchard Hughes Evina Morrison Pigott Pope Tucudean
Buy, buy, buy........sell, sell, sell. It's almost as if everything is a commodity to him. That's no recipe for stability.
And neither is having four managers in 12 months especially as players do move because of the manager and this can be the clincher as to how well or badly they perform.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
I will, Kermogant was offered another contract by us that he chose not to sign.
He then wanted to go to Bournemouth to sign a contract from them that we have been told was a better offer. RD cashed in, where's the problem in that then?
Kermogant wasn't sold because he was ageing, he was sold because HE wanted to leave!
Not sure that last statement is correct. He wanted to leave because we weren't offering the deal he wanted. Could it be that we didn't offer a better deal because of his age?
Or the fact we were entitled to another year anyway and he was taking the piss.
Ridiculous. So a year ago he sells Kermogant for a couple of hundred grand cos he's ageing and now we're thinking of signing this guy?
He might be alright despite his abysmal goal record, and I obviously hope to god he does well - but if he is why is available from a side in the relegation zone?
That Belgian plonker makes no sense.
I'd like to know how anyone, particularly RD, could argue against this point.
I will, Kermogant was offered another contract by us that he chose not to sign.
He then wanted to go to Bournemouth to sign a contract from them that we have been told was a better offer. RD cashed in, where's the problem in that then?
Kermogant wasn't sold because he was ageing, he was sold because HE wanted to leave!
Not sure that last statement is correct. He wanted to leave because we weren't offering the deal he wanted. Could it be that we didn't offer a better deal because of his age?
Clearly from a football point of view selling Kermorgant was a mistake. It is an even bigger mistake that we never tried to replace him like for like.
Whereas I don't think implicitly he wanted to leave . Bournemouth made him an offer in terms of salary and length that he could not refuse and we were not prepared to match . Remember their Russian billionaire owner has very deep pockets.
Saga - he refused to play, by stating that he would be 'injured' when we said we would activate his contract extension. So Roland got rid. If I refused to work I would be sacked.
Regardless of who was right or wrong (and I think both sides were playing poker and RD called YK's bluff) the end result was that Charlton were left with a big Yann sized gap in the squad that still hasn't been filled.
Yann made the mistake of thinking he could push RD for more money and RD made the mistake of thinking his advisors could replace him with a better player ie Polish Pete.
Yann and RD both lost
The only winners were Bournemouth and they are reaping the rewards of a very smart purchase.
All the negativity we are showing now will only seep down to the players and have a detrimental effect on how they play. Lets stop giving them an excuse.
Well all the positivity when most supporters were excited 12 months ago when we signed Reza and Peter Parsley never seemed to seep through !! :-)
That's it though Henry. Everything's so reactive. He dumped a load of players on Powell and sacked him presumably because he couldn't make it work with them, then went out in the summer and signed the sort of players (vetokele and gudmundsson) that Powell had been telling him we desperately needed. Then he dumped a load more on peeters, sacked him cos he wasn't doing the job with them; and a week later is going out to try quick fixes for the problems that peeters had identified.
I know there are other factors / variables, but his strategies are ludicrous and make no sense. Everything he does just seems to me to underline what a pig-headed arrogant **** he is.
When you analyse his strategy the only regular first teamers left from when he took over, just 12 months ago, are:
Church (rightly desperately trying to offload but would be a free anyway) Cousins (if a suitable offer came in he would sell) Harriott (see Cousins but any fee would be nominal) Jackson (too old to get anything for) Solly (knees probably wouldn't pass a medical) Wiggins (history of injuries off putting to potential buyers) Wilson (see Harriott but any fee would be nominal)
He has, during his ownership, brought in either on loan or by buying:
Smith Stephens Kermogant Alnwick Hamer Hollands Gower Green Dervite Feely Wood Azeez Cook Poyet Pritchard Hughes Evina Morrison Pigott Pope Tucudean
Buy, buy, buy........sell, sell, sell. It's almost as if everything is a commodity to him. That's no recipe for stability.
And neither is having four managers in 12 months especially as players do move because of the manager and this can be the clincher as to how well or badly they perform.
Another stick to beat RD with that I don't understand.
Leyton Orient have had 4 managers, this season! I know a few Orient season ticket holders, and they're not slitting their wrists.
Or, you could give up supporting Charlton, and begin following a more stable club.
That's it though Henry. Everything's so reactive. He dumped a load of players on Powell and sacked him presumably because he couldn't make it work with them, then went out in the summer and signed the sort of players (vetokele and gudmundsson) that Powell had been telling him we desperately needed. Then he dumped a load more on peeters, sacked him cos he wasn't doing the job with them; and a week later is going out to try quick fixes for the problems that peeters had identified.
I know there are other factors / variables, but his strategies are ludicrous and make no sense. Everything he does just seems to me to underline what a pig-headed arrogant **** he is.
When you analyse his strategy the only regular first teamers left from when he took over, just 12 months ago, are:
Church (rightly desperately trying to offload but would be a free anyway) Cousins (if a suitable offer came in he would sell) Harriott (see Cousins but any fee would be nominal) Jackson (too old to get anything for) Solly (knees probably wouldn't pass a medical) Wiggins (history of injuries off putting to potential buyers) Wilson (see Harriott but any fee would be nominal)
He has, during his ownership, brought in either on loan or by buying:
Smith Stephens Kermogant Alnwick Hamer Hollands Gower Green Dervite Feely Wood Azeez Cook Poyet Pritchard Hughes Evina Morrison Pigott Pope Tucudean
Buy, buy, buy........sell, sell, sell. It's almost as if everything is a commodity to him. That's no recipe for stability.
And neither is having four managers in 12 months especially as players do move because of the manager and this can be the clincher as to how well or badly they perform.
Another stick to beat RD with that I don't understand.
Leyton Orient have had 4 managers, this season! I know a few Orient season ticket holders, and they're not slitting their wrists.
Or, you could give up supporting Charlton, and begin following a more stable club.
Like Leeds, for instance...
Who says we are "slitting our wrists"? And if Orient fans are happy having had four managers and the stability it has given them from going from 3rd to 5th from bottom in one season (as Orient have) then all I can say is good luck to them.
RD hasn't brought that much instability... We were shit last season, we're still shit now. I'd call that perfect balance.
The only thing he has done that has really rocked us is the sacking of Powell, then lesser so Riga and now potentially Peeters. However Peeters was a shite manager and flattered to deceive with some flukey 1-0 wins. Under him we got progressively worse.
Some of you are acting like he has not only pissed on your cornflakes but topped it off with a nice curl of the brown stuff...
Let's give Luzon a chance, lets give the new signings a chance and let's stick together and continue supporting CAFC.
That's it though Henry. Everything's so reactive. He dumped a load of players on Powell and sacked him presumably because he couldn't make it work with them, then went out in the summer and signed the sort of players (vetokele and gudmundsson) that Powell had been telling him we desperately needed. Then he dumped a load more on peeters, sacked him cos he wasn't doing the job with them; and a week later is going out to try quick fixes for the problems that peeters had identified.
I know there are other factors / variables, but his strategies are ludicrous and make no sense. Everything he does just seems to me to underline what a pig-headed arrogant **** he is.
When you analyse his strategy the only regular first teamers left from when he took over, just 12 months ago, are:
Church (rightly desperately trying to offload but would be a free anyway) Cousins (if a suitable offer came in he would sell) Harriott (see Cousins but any fee would be nominal) Jackson (too old to get anything for) Solly (knees probably wouldn't pass a medical) Wiggins (history of injuries off putting to potential buyers) Wilson (see Harriott but any fee would be nominal)
He has, during his ownership, brought in either on loan or by buying:
Smith Stephens Kermogant Alnwick Hamer Hollands Gower Green Dervite Feely Wood Azeez Cook Poyet Pritchard Hughes Evina Morrison Pigott Pope Tucudean
Buy, buy, buy........sell, sell, sell. It's almost as if everything is a commodity to him. That's no recipe for stability.
And neither is having four managers in 12 months especially as players do move because of the manager and this can be the clincher as to how well or badly they perform.
Looking at the sold/loaned out list, that would have been similar whoever the owner was. It's probably similar at a lot of FL clubs.
Most on there weren't/aren't good enough, a few like Poyet, Dervite Hamer took better offers, and it's good that players like Pigott and arguably Pope are out on loan playing regularly.
As so many players weren't good enough they needed replacing.
I don't think the number of players in and out is the issue, it's that RD thought we could comfortably get by with a small, fairly cheap (aside from the fee for Vetokele and possibly a few big wages such as JBG) and young squad.
We now need at least 2/3 good signings to keep us up. As it's January they may have to be short term signings (such as the Spurs loanee).
I just hope he's learnt that he will need to spend a bit more to make us competitive in this league, rather than thinking we just need a better manager.
This is part of an article in yesterday's Evening Standard.
“For whatever reason, a very good management structure was virtually entirely replaced. The assistant manager is still there — I am not sure in what capacity — but the coaching staff have gone. Becchetti has brought in too many people from his own country. That may be revolutionary. It may be a disaster. It doesn’t look great. You have got Italian trainers and physios etc… Language is a huge problem.”
Hearn, whose Matchroom Sport business is booming, then points out: “If I am doing a show in Scotland, I’ll work with a Scottish person who understands that market. I am sensible enough to say I don’t know every answer.”
The above pretty much covers my thoughts on our problems, I think Barry Hearn has hit the nail on the head.
Seen 4 live and 2 streams, listened to the commentary on every other game I could which must be around 20 this season and you?
The stats speak for themselves, we started ok and have progressively got worse (as our luck ran out according to Bob or he began to bully the players according to insiders elsewhere on CL depending on who you believe)?
Not sure on the reasoning behind your question @Stu_of_Kunming ?
That's it though Henry. Everything's so reactive. He dumped a load of players on Powell and sacked him presumably because he couldn't make it work with them, then went out in the summer and signed the sort of players (vetokele and gudmundsson) that Powell had been telling him we desperately needed. Then he dumped a load more on peeters, sacked him cos he wasn't doing the job with them; and a week later is going out to try quick fixes for the problems that peeters had identified.
I know there are other factors / variables, but his strategies are ludicrous and make no sense. Everything he does just seems to me to underline what a pig-headed arrogant **** he is.
When you analyse his strategy the only regular first teamers left from when he took over, just 12 months ago, are:
Church (rightly desperately trying to offload but would be a free anyway) Cousins (if a suitable offer came in he would sell) Harriott (see Cousins but any fee would be nominal) Jackson (too old to get anything for) Solly (knees probably wouldn't pass a medical) Wiggins (history of injuries off putting to potential buyers) Wilson (see Harriott but any fee would be nominal)
He has, during his ownership, brought in either on loan or by buying:
Smith Stephens Kermogant Alnwick Hamer Hollands Gower Green Dervite Feely Wood Azeez Cook Poyet Pritchard Hughes Evina Morrison Pigott Pope Tucudean
Buy, buy, buy........sell, sell, sell. It's almost as if everything is a commodity to him. That's no recipe for stability.
And neither is having four managers in 12 months especially as players do move because of the manager and this can be the clincher as to how well or badly they perform.
Another stick to beat RD with that I don't understand.
Leyton Orient have had 4 managers, this season! I know a few Orient season ticket holders, and they're not slitting their wrists.
Or, you could give up supporting Charlton, and begin following a more stable club.
Like Leeds, for instance...
I'm regularly in touch with an Orient fan called Mat Roper who edits Pandemonium fanzine and leads "Stand up for the Orient" (because of the Olympic Stadium issue). Based on that, I'd say that the mood there is similar to ours. And of course, some are more reactive and pessimistic than others. But most agree that a revolving door of managers isn't the best way to achieve better results.
You'll note that I left a broadly positive comment about Fortune above…no sticks here for me.
At the end of the day, in typical Charlton fashion, have we left it too late to sign any decent players? We are crap on the pitch, the club has gone into panic mode and we are scrabbling round for anyone we can get in on loan.
This guy is 33 years old. Younger than me, but old in football terms. His goal scoring record is piss poor. He plays for a team already in the relegation zone and can't get a game there.
This is a genuine, serious question to all those that are giving this signing the thumbs up...what is it you're seeing in him that i'm not? What appeal does he have. I understand it's an extra pair of legs, adding to the squad etc. but he will come at some cost which will only impact upon any other possible signings. We have seen in the past, older loanees come to our club, do very little for us, show no passion or commitment (as they are only here on loan) but they're happy to pick up a wage which will still be several thousand a week.
We do need new players, new faces. All areas need a boost. We need to get rid of some of our existing players who are simply not good enough, but are these the signings that are realistically going to keep us up?
Comments
"We need an experienced Championship hold up man!"
So we are linked with an experienced Championship hold up man...
"Why are we linked with this player, what will he add to the team?"
We are a mid table Championship side. The days of signing the Darren Bents, Shaun Bartletts, etc are over until we return to the Premiership.
I tell you what. Pick a list of players that you want, and bring them in. One rule. You have to pay for him yourself.
Not sure about a policy where we either sign/loan 19 y/o with no experience or 32+ y/o at the end of their careers, but he'd know more about champ defenses, how they bully and how to deal with it than anything we've got on our books.
He then wanted to go to Bournemouth to sign a contract from them that we have been told was a better offer. RD cashed in, where's the problem in that then?
Kermogant wasn't sold because he was ageing, he was sold because HE wanted to leave!
And while we're on player selection, nobody's expecting us to sign a proven Championship striker as they cost 5 to 10m these days. But that doesn't mean that all you're left with is u19 players and pension collectors (I also doubt Fortune's wages will be especially cheap). With a proper management and scouting system I am sure there are hungry / angry players with the right personality out there who would probably want to play for charlton and who might not necessarily be the next Charlie Austin but could do a better job than Tucudean. Curbs successfully found these players for 15 years and I'll happily cover the transfer fee we paid for Yann Kermogant out of my own pocket - and he turned out okay.
Unfortunately a 70 year old bloke sat at a desk in belgium who has probably seen 1 training session and 1 match in the UK in an entire year is not going to find such players.
All the negativity we are showing now will only seep down to the players and have a detrimental effect on how they play. Lets stop giving them an excuse.
Church (rightly desperately trying to offload but would be a free anyway)
Cousins (if a suitable offer came in he would sell)
Harriott (see Cousins but any fee would be nominal)
Jackson (too old to get anything for)
Solly (knees probably wouldn't pass a medical)
Wiggins (history of injuries off putting to potential buyers)
Wilson (see Harriott but any fee would be nominal)
He has, during his ownership, brought in either on loan or by buying:
Nego
Reza
Parysczek
Ansah
Vetokele
Bikey
Munns
Buyens
Moussa
Ben-Haim
Bulot
Gudmundsson
Coquelin
Onyewu
Tucudean
Henderson
Etheridge
Dmitrovic
Watt
Veljkovic
And sent out on loan or sold:
Smith
Stephens
Kermogant
Alnwick
Hamer
Hollands
Gower
Green
Dervite
Parysczek
Feely
Wood
Nego
Reza
Azeez
Cook
Poyet
Pritchard
Hughes
Evina
Morrison
Pigott
Pope
Tucudean
Buy, buy, buy........sell, sell, sell. It's almost as if everything is a commodity to him. That's no recipe for stability.
And neither is having four managers in 12 months especially as players do move because of the manager and this can be the clincher as to how well or badly they perform.
Clearly from a football point of view selling Kermorgant was a mistake. It is an even bigger mistake that we never tried to replace him like for like.
Whereas I don't think implicitly he wanted to leave . Bournemouth made him an offer in terms of salary and length that he could not refuse and we were not prepared to match . Remember their Russian billionaire owner has very deep pockets.
If I refused to work I would be sacked.
Yann made the mistake of thinking he could push RD for more money and RD made the mistake of thinking his advisors could replace him with a better player ie Polish Pete.
Yann and RD both lost
The only winners were Bournemouth and they are reaping the rewards of a very smart purchase.
Leyton Orient have had 4 managers, this season! I know a few Orient season ticket holders, and they're not slitting their wrists.
Or, you could give up supporting Charlton, and begin following a more stable club.
Like Leeds, for instance...
More chance of getting Lance Fortune (for the silver surfers on this sight)
The only thing he has done that has really rocked us is the sacking of Powell, then lesser so Riga and now potentially Peeters. However Peeters was a shite manager and flattered to deceive with some flukey 1-0 wins. Under him we got progressively worse.
Some of you are acting like he has not only pissed on your cornflakes but topped it off with a nice curl of the brown stuff...
Let's give Luzon a chance, lets give the new signings a chance and let's stick together and continue supporting CAFC.
Most on there weren't/aren't good enough, a few like Poyet, Dervite Hamer took better offers, and it's good that players like Pigott and arguably Pope are out on loan playing regularly.
As so many players weren't good enough they needed replacing.
I don't think the number of players in and out is the issue, it's that RD thought we could comfortably get by with a small, fairly cheap (aside from the fee for Vetokele and possibly a few big wages such as JBG) and young squad.
We now need at least 2/3 good signings to keep us up. As it's January they may have to be short term signings (such as the Spurs loanee).
I just hope he's learnt that he will need to spend a bit more to make us competitive in this league, rather than thinking we just need a better manager.
“For whatever reason, a very good management structure was virtually entirely replaced. The assistant manager is still there — I am not sure in what capacity — but the coaching staff have gone. Becchetti has brought in too many people from his own country. That may be revolutionary. It may be a disaster. It doesn’t look great. You have got Italian trainers and physios etc… Language is a huge problem.”
Hearn, whose Matchroom Sport business is booming, then points out: “If I am doing a show in Scotland, I’ll work with a Scottish person who understands that market. I am sensible enough to say I don’t know every answer.”
The above pretty much covers my thoughts on our problems, I think Barry Hearn has hit the nail on the head.
The stats speak for themselves, we started ok and have progressively got worse (as our luck ran out according to Bob or he began to bully the players according to insiders elsewhere on CL depending on who you believe)?
Not sure on the reasoning behind your question @Stu_of_Kunming ?
You'll note that I left a broadly positive comment about Fortune above…no sticks here for me.
This guy is 33 years old. Younger than me, but old in football terms. His goal scoring record is piss poor. He plays for a team already in the relegation zone and can't get a game there.
This is a genuine, serious question to all those that are giving this signing the thumbs up...what is it you're seeing in him that i'm not? What appeal does he have. I understand it's an extra pair of legs, adding to the squad etc. but he will come at some cost which will only impact upon any other possible signings. We have seen in the past, older loanees come to our club, do very little for us, show no passion or commitment (as they are only here on loan) but they're happy to pick up a wage which will still be several thousand a week.
We do need new players, new faces. All areas need a boost. We need to get rid of some of our existing players who are simply not good enough, but are these the signings that are realistically going to keep us up?