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SE18: Impressions of a London Suburb (1964)

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    Spent many hrs in there mate,
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    edited January 2015
    Excellent find. Never knew Grayson Perry was around in the 60's sitting there behind the Queen Mother.
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    I will watch this when i get a minute.

    I walk down Burrage Road every day. I have always admired the houses up the top there. Some are absolutely stunning but have been turned in flats and bedsits and have a
    general run down and neglected look. I have noticed in the last few months tho that things are a changing. Any property developer with a bit of cash appear to be moving in and doing them up. Scaffold going up weekly.

    I think some parts of Woolwich are going to improve drastically the nearer the crossrail comes in but still like they say... you cant polish a turd.
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    edited January 2015
    msomerton said:

    That wa ablast from the past, I remeberas a child working to Woolwich with mum go to the market and the big stores in Woolwich then.
    Funny thing was that 14 years after this film I had a part time job in the covered market working for Sadies. It seemed bloody buisy to me then, I then went tp Thames Poly to do a degree and spent most of my socia;l life then in Woolwich including the Tramshed. Suppose I am saying Woolwich did not die in the 70`s.


    I remember Sadie, she was quite small and would sit on at a high desk and collect the money from all her salesmen.
    My father owned the stalls in the opposite corner of the Covered Market selling carpets and linoleum. He inherited the business from his uncle Dan who originally traded on the High Pavement in Beresford Square and after the war moved into the Covered Market. The photo I have posted is one of the signs that were fixed to an Austin A60 van he had and this sign is now hanging in the reception at my work, it is over 50 years old.

    imageimage
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    edited January 2015
    Sorry two photos uploaded by mistake.

    Thanks for posting the video Redsek, I recognised a few people on it.
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    Can't wait to watch that clip in the opening post
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    I went back to work at Woolwich, three times as Morgan Grampian was there, latter Miller Freeman.
    I think the first time was about 76. then again in the mid 80s, and possibly early 90s for a brief time, and boy did it decline.
    It was never a place of beauty, but it was a vibrant town , with a culture and identity. I used to live in Charlton , and daily go to Plumstead to school during the 60s. In fact worked at Garrett's while in the 6th form doing my 'A' levels during the summer.
    Lugging bloody great carpet's on and off off lorries, and going over the ferry to deliver them. Probably the only hard day's work I have done in my life. Far to much effort......


    My mum worked at Morgan Grampian in the early to mid 70's.

    Great film, loved watching it and it brought back some great memories as a young kid growing up in the 60's. One thing that always stuck in my memory was seeing a colour tv for the very first time in a shop window on Powis St and thunderbirds was on. My mum had to drag me away by my ear!! Funny how strange little snippets of your childhood remain so vividly clear in your memory

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    Really enjoyed watching that, thanks for posting! Grew up in SE18 and love a bit of local history. Viewing the footage was different for me as I only remember the area in the '90s and early 2000s as that was when I grew up. I used to love the Frying Pan II in Glyndon as someone else mentioned, they did the most amazing potato wedges!
    Paid Woolwich a visit for the first time in almost a decade last year and was shocked at how much had changed in such a short space of time. The square looks very modern but so different that it didn't feel like the place I grew up in at all. The rest of the place looked completely rundown in comparison.
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    It's funny how life is. I grew up in Charlton but we lived in Pett Street for a while and my first school was Woodhill until we moved when I was six or seven. I remember really clearly the trolly buses in the market square and Cuffs and Garrets stores what a change.

    I did my degree on day release at Woolwich Poly (could have been Thames poly by then) and learnt to swim at Woolwich baths so all happy memories. My life one way and another has been associated with Woolwich all the way through. Haven't been there for years now and expect like a lot of my old haunts would hardly recognise it but sometimes I think the memories are better as kept and forget the reality now.
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    I went back to work at Woolwich, three times as Morgan Grampian was there, latter Miller Freeman.
    I think the first time was about 76. then again in the mid 80s, and possibly early 90s for a brief time, and boy did it decline.
    It was never a place of beauty, but it was a vibrant town , with a culture and identity. I used to live in Charlton , and daily go to Plumstead to school during the 60s. In fact worked at Garrett's while in the 6th form doing my 'A' levels during the summer.
    Lugging bloody great carpet's on and off off lorries, and going over the ferry to deliver them. Probably the only hard day's work I have done in my life. Far to much effort......


    My mum worked at Morgan Grampian in the early to mid 70's.

    Great film, loved watching it and it brought back some great memories as a young kid growing up in the 60's. One thing that always stuck in my memory was seeing a colour tv for the very first time in a shop window on Powis St and thunderbirds was on. My mum had to drag me away by my ear!! Funny how strange little snippets of your childhood remain so vividly clear in your memory

    Yes worked on Pulse as art editor, for about a year.......
    Then went back and worked on a range of magazines, Travel Trade Gazette,'Catering' was one. Think it became United newspapers or something, I worked for Bob Findley one of the main publishers, who left late 70s. So I worked for him at his new company freelance. Like Woolwich the company became less interesting, which was a pity as it was local.
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    Thanks for the film - it certainly brought back old times. The year of the film, 1964, marked the end of the Borough of Woolwich and its inclusion in the new London Borough of Greenwich. It was also the year I left home at the top of Shooters Hill and went off to university after spending a lot of time In and around the town centre including the upstairs reference department of Woolwich Library.

    I think that was LCC Labour luminary Herbert Morrison talking in the film about all he had done for the 'burrow' of Woolwich.

    So many images in the film sum up the changes that have taken place in my lifetime - the ethnic mix, and the view from Shrewsbury Park across the river to the Royal Docks with no high buildings in sight and all those wharves and ships on the river which you could watch from the ferry. Now they are all gone except for a few Thames Clippers.

    And the shots in the covered market and around Beresford Square. I missed a lot of buses home distracted by the patter of the guys shown in the film setting up huge piles of biscuits, sweets and chocolates and selling them for very little - I suppose they were all way past what we would now call their sell-buy dates.

    Scenes of the Arsenal in the film reminded me of two holiday jobs on the Christmas Post based at the PO in General Gordon Sq when I was assigned to a lorry which went into the Arsenal picking up parcels. That gave me a chance to satisfy my curiosity about what was behind those impenetrable walls stretching away on both sides of the Main Gate now marooned south of the new road. At that time the PO took on far too many people for the Christmas Post and there was nothing much for our lorry crew to do all day except explore all the cafes in Woolwich and Plumstead after we had done our few hours leisurely work.

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    Enjoyable documentary. I was born at the Hospital for Mothers and Babies in Samuel Street. Worked on the market for a short while (might have been for the fruit and veg man in the film). Later on studied (Churchill House - General Gordon Square) and worked at the Uni (Riverside House on Beresford Street).

    The film is obviously before my time and is unrecognisable from my own adult experiences (mainly in the 90's). 50 years have passed since the film was made and it's only natural that the area and demographic have changed. Time and tide wait for no man.
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    Sevensix said:

    Thanks for the film - it certainly brought back old times. The year of the film, 1964, marked the end of the Borough of Woolwich and its inclusion in the new London Borough of Greenwich. It was also the year I left home at the top of Shooters Hill and went off to university after spending a lot of time In and around the town centre including the upstairs reference department of Woolwich Library.

    I think that was LCC Labour luminary Herbert Morrison talking in the film about all he had done for the 'burrow' of Woolwich.

    So many images in the film sum up the changes that have taken place in my lifetime - the ethnic mix, and the view from Shrewsbury Park across the river to the Royal Docks with no high buildings in sight and all those wharves and ships on the river which you could watch from the ferry. Now they are all gone except for a few Thames Clippers.

    And the shots in the covered market and around Beresford Square. I missed a lot of buses home distracted by the patter of the guys shown in the film setting up huge piles of biscuits, sweets and chocolates and selling them for very little - I suppose they were all way past what we would now call their sell-buy dates.

    Scenes of the Arsenal in the film reminded me of two holiday jobs on the Christmas Post based at the PO in General Gordon Sq when I was assigned to a lorry which went into the Arsenal picking up parcels. That gave me a chance to satisfy my curiosity about what was behind those impenetrable walls stretching away on both sides of the Main Gate now marooned south of the new road. At that time the PO took on far too many people for the Christmas Post and there was nothing much for our lorry crew to do all day except explore all the cafes in Woolwich and Plumstead after we had done our few hours leisurely work.

    I think you are correct regarding the local council or Woolwich as it was . LCC was it not. I would only have been 12 so the political geography in local council would not have ben something that I would have been too familiar with, but my grandfather worked for Greenwich council, and I do remember that the town hall in Greenwich and the town hall in Woolwich had some sort reconfiguration. It may have been similar in Lewisham, as part of Blackheath seemed to come under Lewisham. I wonder if it explains the reason that Woolwich has a less focused council on implementing regeneration, and town development. Probably combined with the shifting way in which people lived, shopped, did there cooking etc. I do remember going to places like the Co-op and buying carpets, and furniture, and using the department stores. Same with the food we eat, few fridges, and no micro waves, frozen peas, and fish fingers meant that the daily pursuit in buying essentially fresh food must have had a major effect on the local economy. Of course most other towns would have gone through a similar transition, but Woolwich seemed to suffer more than most.
    I lived in Blackheath for a time, and Greenwich, and did not have a car, so did not go to Woolwich much, I guess when you only come back after a year or so you see the changes more graphically, The Woolwich Equitable Building Society leaving, Miller Freeman, the large department stores, especially the co-op. I am sure there are many reasons, but the end result was a bit of a wasteland though, compared to what it once was.
    I do remember walking down the top end of Powis Street and it was full of all sort of council funded bodies, did not seem to give an impression of a vibrant community.
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    edited January 2015
    Just watched the film...brought back so many memories I would have been 10 at the time....seeing Crown Woods my old school a year before I went there (I'm sure I remember some of that pottery!!), was that Dr Ross the old headmaster of Crown Woods doing a bit in the film? However most interesting to me were the pieces about The Royal Arsenal which is where my grandad (Bill) worked all his life and ended up Chief Toolmaker at the place, he was also Mayor of Greenwich (67/68) after Woolwich was merged into London Borough of Greenwich in April 65, yet he was inaugurated at Woolwich town hall having served as an Alderman and Councillor in Woolwich for 30 years. I remember meeting some of the politicians shown as they visited my grandad's house in New Eltham, a 2 up 2 down terraced house where 9 of us lived!! Thanks for posting this film, it brought back so many happy memories of my time going to Woolwich market, to The Valley with my dad, and to see the old Woolwich Power station in the background where my other grandad (Charlie) worked and then Charlie's mate who worked on the ferry and allowed Charlie and I to go on the 'bridge' with him - I can just about remember him. I'm going to show this film to my other half, and my brothers/sisters, all of who are much younger than me, it'll be interesting to see their reaction. Thanks again for the memories.
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    mickc said:

    msomerton said:

    That wa ablast from the past, I remeberas a child working to Woolwich with mum go to the market and the big stores in Woolwich then.
    Funny thing was that 14 years after this film I had a part time job in the covered market working for Sadies. It seemed bloody buisy to me then, I then went tp Thames Poly to do a degree and spent most of my socia;l life then in Woolwich including the Tramshed. Suppose I am saying Woolwich did not die in the 70`s.


    I remember Sadie, she was quite small and would sit on at a high desk and collect the money from all her salesmen.
    My father owned the stalls in the opposite corner of the Covered Market selling carpets and linoleum. He inherited the business from his uncle Dan who originally traded on the High Pavement in Beresford Square and after the war moved into the Covered Market. The photo I have posted is one of the signs that were fixed to an Austin A60 van he had and this sign is now hanging in the reception at my work, it is over 50 years old.

    imageimage
    Yes that was Sadie, a formidable woman who kept all her staff on the ball. I believe my parents bought lino from your fathers stall, I seem to remeber walking home with my dad carrying a role of lino on his shoulder. That would have been the early 1960`s when we lived in lower Plumstead.
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    You do realise the guarantee has run out on that lino.
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    Bought some Lino for my mothers kitchen, and laid it myself..... from the covered market.
    Probably still on the floor of our flat in Springfield Grove. There were some excellent stalls in the market.
    My favourite shop was Sam's Army surplus. Bought a navy officers overcoat and dyed it black, just like the cover of led zep 2
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    Bought some Lino for my mothers kitchen, and laid it myself..... from the covered market.
    Probably still on the floor of our flat in Springfield Grove. There were some excellent stalls in the market.
    My favourite shop was Sam's Army surplus. Bought a navy officers overcoat and dyed it black, just like the cover of led zep 2

    Remember Sam's well just along from the Covered Market.

    I hope the lino has a few years of wear left Ken.

    Brilliant photo stream Scabby I recognised so many of the roads.

    I'm currently surrounded by the Manhattan skyline at the bottom of Loampit Vale Lewisham, so much has changed just recently.

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    Just watched the film...brought back so many memories I would have been 10 at the time....seeing Crown Woods my old school a year before I went there (I'm sure I remember some of that pottery!!), was that Dr Ross the old headmaster of Crown Woods doing a bit in the film? However most interesting to me were the pieces about The Royal Arsenal which is where my grandad (Bill) worked all his life and ended up Chief Toolmaker at the place, he was also Mayor of Greenwich (67/68) after Woolwich was merged into London Borough of Greenwich in April 65, yet he was inaugurated at Woolwich town hall having served as an Alderman and Councillor in Woolwich for 30 years. I remember meeting some of the politicians shown as they visited my grandad's house in New Eltham, a 2 up 2 down terraced house where 9 of us lived!! Thanks for posting this film, it brought back so many happy memories of my time going to Woolwich market, to The Valley with my dad, and to see the old Woolwich Power station in the background where my other grandad (Charlie) worked and then Charlie's mate who worked on the ferry and allowed Charlie and I to go on the 'bridge' with him - I can just about remember him. I'm going to show this film to my other half, and my brothers/sisters, all of who are much younger than me, it'll be interesting to see their reaction. Thanks again for the memories.

    No bother RM - a friend had posted it on Facebook and just made sense to share on here. Glad some memories are being stirred. My own Woolwich story is a common enough one: parents were Irish immigrants who arrived in the 1960s. Hard working, decent people like so many. The video a bit before my time as I'm a child of the 1970s. I bore my kids rigid with stories of watching Star Wars in 1977 at what is now the New Wine Church followed by a burger in that new Macdonald's - the only one in the country at the time. I'm beginning to get a bit 'jumpers for goal posts' so will stop now.
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    Don't stop Redsek this post has just been circulated by email from the Shooters Hill Neighbourhood watch to other local branches, I received a notification about 5.30.

    You're going viral.
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    Hi. I've been asked to catalogue this film for London's Screen Archives i.e write a full description with all the venues etc (I'm a volunteer). The discussion on this forum has been really useful, so thanks people. I'm not strictly local, though my grandparents and dad lived around Eltham/Plumstead for years, and I've been squinting at the bowls match in Well Hall Pleasaunce, trying to make out if my grandfather, Richard Roberts, is in it as he played there all the time, back in the day. He was a Charlton fan, and worked at the Woolwich Arsenal, so he'd definitely have been interested in this film. I've done quite a bit of research and got all the more obvious locations etc, but there are a few things that still puzzle me, and I'd like to tap your local knowledge a bit more: 1) Where is the Queen mum speaking at the start? The first crowds seem to be outside the RACS store on Powis St, and the final crowds in that scene could be on the Rectory Estate, perhaps, but what is the place with all the flagpoles, in between? Or is it all by a different RACS store & estate? 2) Does anyone recognise any of the shops (7.34-39, 27.21-27.51), or the mosaic pillar behind the black girl with the impressive afro-beehive (7.35)? I know Fine Fare & Garretts, but most shops are a bit of a mystery, especially when they are in close-up and unnamed. 3) Does anyone recognise the gym (from 7.40) or the bookies (28.12 on)? 4) Does anyone recognise the streets at 25.35, 27.52 and 30.22-30.28, the flats at 30.36, the estate with the cement mixer at 31.20, the tower block with the saloon sign at 31.2, or the blocks at 31.39? 5) Does anyone recognise the bingo hall signs from 35.21 on? 6) Where was The Embers club (35.34)? 7) Who is talking on the balcony of Woolwich Polytechnic at 41.08? Any info on these points would be gratefully received.
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    I grew up in Greenwich but we moved to Francis Street for a couple of years in the mid-seventies. Not a great time and never really settled there. I remember the opening of the McDonalds in 1976 and getting free coupon's in the local paper for my first non-Wimpy hamburger. Also used get the ferry across the Thames and back just because it felt like you were going somewhere. We were there the night the IRA bombed the Kings Arms and I remember walking passed the pub on the opposite side of the road the following morning and seeing one of the old heavy duty cast iron metal radiators that had been blown out of the bar and had hit the wall across the road. There was also that horrible smell, usually on Sundays, which I was always told came from the Spillers Dog Food factory across the river somewhere? Woolwich was starting to go downhill then and it hasn't really stopped. The Covered End market was always worth a browse and there were an abundance of shoe shops in the high street as I recall. I only live over the hill in Charlton Lane now (having moved around) but rarely pass the Woodhill Border. There is simply no reason to go to Woolwich anymore. I did go the recent supporters meeting but even that place has since closed down.
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    Queen Mum was opening Coldharbour estate (I think) @ZoeR
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    BDL said:

    Queen Mum was opening Coldharbour estate (I think) @ZoeR

    Yes the Queen mum was opening the Coldharbour estate. She came to the house next to ours for a cup of tea. We lived in Witherston Way (number8). As you can imagine it was a big event for the street and estate. I still have a photo of the lady walking down our neighbours path.

    I may have been in the Crown woods film as I was there in 1964. The pottery room was my tutor room - was never any good at pottery. I remember the headmaster - I think his name was Malcolm Ross. Good days.
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    ZoeR said:

    Hi. I've been asked to catalogue this film for London's Screen Archives i.e write a full description with all the venues etc (I'm a volunteer). The discussion on this forum has been really useful, so thanks people. I'm not strictly local, though my grandparents and dad lived around Eltham/Plumstead for years, and I've been squinting at the bowls match in Well Hall Pleasaunce, trying to make out if my grandfather, Richard Roberts, is in it as he played there all the time, back in the day. He was a Charlton fan, and worked at the Woolwich Arsenal, so he'd definitely have been interested in this film. I've done quite a bit of research and got all the more obvious locations etc, but there are a few things that still puzzle me, and I'd like to tap your local knowledge a bit more: 1) Where is the Queen mum speaking at the start? The first crowds seem to be outside the RACS store on Powis St, and the final crowds in that scene could be on the Rectory Estate, perhaps, but what is the place with all the flagpoles, in between? Or is it all by a different RACS store & estate? 2) Does anyone recognise any of the shops (7.34-39, 27.21-27.51), or the mosaic pillar behind the black girl with the impressive afro-beehive (7.35)? I know Fine Fare & Garretts, but most shops are a bit of a mystery, especially when they are in close-up and unnamed. 3) Does anyone recognise the gym (from 7.40) or the bookies (28.12 on)? 4) Does anyone recognise the streets at 25.35, 27.52 and 30.22-30.28, the flats at 30.36, the estate with the cement mixer at 31.20, the tower block with the saloon sign at 31.2, or the blocks at 31.39? 5) Does anyone recognise the bingo hall signs from 35.21 on? 6) Where was The Embers club (35.34)? 7) Who is talking on the balcony of Woolwich Polytechnic at 41.08? Any info on these points would be gratefully received.

    The Queen mum was speaking from The Mound shops on coldharbour. (see my previous post.
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    One of my abiding memories of the day the queen mother came to coldharbour apart from the good lady visiting our next door naighbours was an amusing incident involving a local character Terry.

    Terry was a severely disabled wheelchair bound chap who lived on William Barefoot Drive.
    He spent his days sitting in his wheelchair outside his house engaging anyone who was prepared to engage him in conversation.
    I’m sure everyone who lived in the area knew Terry and if they had ten minutes to spare were happy to talk to Terry who had his own data base stored in his brain of the local community.
    On the day of the queen mothers visit to Coldharbour, as the ladies entourage passed Terry the queen mother stopped at Terry and asked “Have you had a good day”? Poor Terry who was never found wanting for a conversation was totally flummoxed.
    The queen mother smiled that sweet smile and her entourage moved on.
    Good days and good memories of Terry.

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    ZoeR said:

    Hi. I've been asked to catalogue this film for London's Screen Archives i.e write a full description with all the venues etc (I'm a volunteer). The discussion on this forum has been really useful, so thanks people. I'm not strictly local, though my grandparents and dad lived around Eltham/Plumstead for years, and I've been squinting at the bowls match in Well Hall Pleasaunce, trying to make out if my grandfather, Richard Roberts, is in it as he played there all the time, back in the day. He was a Charlton fan, and worked at the Woolwich Arsenal, so he'd definitely have been interested in this film. I've done quite a bit of research and got all the more obvious locations etc, but there are a few things that still puzzle me, and I'd like to tap your local knowledge a bit more: 1) Where is the Queen mum speaking at the start? The first crowds seem to be outside the RACS store on Powis St, and the final crowds in that scene could be on the Rectory Estate, perhaps, but what is the place with all the flagpoles, in between? Or is it all by a different RACS store & estate? 2) Does anyone recognise any of the shops (7.34-39, 27.21-27.51), or the mosaic pillar behind the black girl with the impressive afro-beehive (7.35)? I know Fine Fare & Garretts, but most shops are a bit of a mystery, especially when they are in close-up and unnamed. 3) Does anyone recognise the gym (from 7.40) or the bookies (28.12 on)? 4) Does anyone recognise the streets at 25.35, 27.52 and 30.22-30.28, the flats at 30.36, the estate with the cement mixer at 31.20, the tower block with the saloon sign at 31.2, or the blocks at 31.39? 5) Does anyone recognise the bingo hall signs from 35.21 on? 6) Where was The Embers club (35.34)? 7) Who is talking on the balcony of Woolwich Polytechnic at 41.08? Any info on these points would be gratefully received.

    I believe that the shot of the Black girl leaning on a ceramic covered pillar was outside Woolworths.
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    My wife always talks about walking from Purret Road, Plumstead, and then going back and forth on the Ferry for fun, or walking to Danson Park for family picnics. No car, not much money, but great memories.
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