Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
They are extreme left wing to the greatest degree. Anarchists. As far removed from the Labour vote as the extreme right wing racist party EDL are from the conservative voter.
Indeed the EDL were demonstrating near me in multi cultural Walthamstow yesterday . I don't associate that with the Tories or all people who have right of centre views.
Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
Oh FFS. Talk about clutching at straws. You'll be telling us next that Maggie Thatcher is still secretly alive and kicking, orchestrating all this. Jesus wept!
Great article by Nick Cohen in the Guardian. He nails some of the biggest issues that Labour face. Cohen's points about the 'educated left' are particularly well made.
not a chance and it makes me very happy that the left sided folk never got in, if that is a snap shot of their demographic,
I wish more of them protested when their left friends were wasting anD spending their way to oblivion, causing the need for such cuts
Scum who done that yesterday filth in the bottom of shoe
NLA don't be so quick to judge you're better than that. Yes they went about it all wrong and the few that went too far and defaced war memorials have been arrested and dealt with but a lot of them just felt desperate. Imagine how desperate they must have been to have taken these measures, how bad must their lives been. Cuts, although Cameron says they're fair, do not affect everyone. Not everyone has to use the services that have been cut, not everyone has their lives in tatter but a lot of them that do had a hope that things could change, a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak but now that hope has gone. Try being an unworking single dad who recently lost his wife to cancer, having 5 kids under 9 and have lost his mortgaged house due to not being able to afford the mortgage and having to live in a 3 bedroom private rented accomadation where the rent is £300 per week and after all bills he's left with £40 to feed 6 of them and that is about to be cut further. How desperate would you be?
I'm not condoning their actions but some of them probably felt they had no choice.
Sorry @sadiejane but there are no excuses for that type of action. And your example doesn't explain why life insurance (mortgage) was not taken out. I found myself in a similar position (although working) but I (we) had planned ahead.
Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
Wow. Just fucking WOW.
Yes, that's just what I thought. I mean, it's obviously nasty, petulant protesters. But, aren't we going to look stupid jumping to that conclusions if it turns out not to be?
Anybody here renting from a housing association looking forward to their hefty discount so they can buy their place? This was the promise that won the election, and if it wasn't why make it, and why make it when they did?
Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
Wow. Just fucking WOW.
Yes, that's just what I thought. I mean, it's obviously nasty, petulant protesters. But, aren't we going to look stupid jumping to that conclusions if it turns out not to be?
Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
Wow. Just fucking WOW.
Yes, that's just what I thought. I mean, it's obviously nasty, petulant protesters. But, aren't we going to look stupid jumping to that conclusions if it turns out not to be?
Not as stupid as when we find out the moon landings were filmed in Hollywood, it was the queen that crashed Dianas car and it was actually 2Pac, Elvis and JFK that flew the planes into the twin towers.
Liam Byrne in the press apologising to his peers for the 'There is no money' jibe. If ever there was a nail in the Labour resurrection balloon, that was a huge one.
not a chance and it makes me very happy that the left sided folk never got in, if that is a snap shot of their demographic,
I wish more of them protested when their left friends were wasting anD spending their way to oblivion, causing the need for such cuts
Scum who done that yesterday filth in the bottom of shoe
NLA don't be so quick to judge you're better than that. Yes they went about it all wrong and the few that went too far and defaced war memorials have been arrested and dealt with but a lot of them just felt desperate. Imagine how desperate they must have been to have taken these measures, how bad must their lives been. Cuts, although Cameron says they're fair, do not affect everyone. Not everyone has to use the services that have been cut, not everyone has their lives in tatter but a lot of them that do had a hope that things could change, a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak but now that hope has gone. Try being an unworking single dad who recently lost his wife to cancer, having 5 kids under 9 and have lost his mortgaged house due to not being able to afford the mortgage and having to live in a 3 bedroom private rented accomadation where the rent is £300 per week and after all bills he's left with £40 to feed 6 of them and that is about to be cut further. How desperate would you be?
I'm not condoning their actions but some of them probably felt they had no choice.
That all works in a ideological sense Sadie but that is not the reality. The reality is these protests such as yesterday are not dominated by people with genuine grievances but those with an agenda. The same hooded masked scum I saw first hand during the capitalism riots under a Labour government who were meant to be marching against 'banks' yet were more than happy to launch metal poles through small business windows leaving pleading shopkeepers in tears as their livelihoods were being not just destroyed but then looted.
Watch the videos, it's dominated by the same old Socialist Worker mob and teen / early 20s chanting Fuck the Police. Spare the no choice angle, you do the genuine grievance people no favours associated them with this mob.
By the way, who would be looking after his five young kids while he's out chanting at coppers and knocking barriers over ?
So lets be generous and accept that no Labour supporters were present at these demonstrations. To which political party would these socialist scumbags align? Here it would be Labour or the Greens. Is there an official Communist Party in the UK, or are we saying that the majority of them would just not vote? I can imagine Russell Brand as being just the type of person who would attend such a protest and we all know who he supported in the end!
not a chance and it makes me very happy that the left sided folk never got in, if that is a snap shot of their demographic,
I wish more of them protested when their left friends were wasting anD spending their way to oblivion, causing the need for such cuts
Scum who done that yesterday filth in the bottom of shoe
NLA don't be so quick to judge you're better than that. Yes they went about it all wrong and the few that went too far and defaced war memorials have been arrested and dealt with but a lot of them just felt desperate. Imagine how desperate they must have been to have taken these measures, how bad must their lives been. Cuts, although Cameron says they're fair, do not affect everyone. Not everyone has to use the services that have been cut, not everyone has their lives in tatter but a lot of them that do had a hope that things could change, a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak but now that hope has gone. Try being an unworking single dad who recently lost his wife to cancer, having 5 kids under 9 and have lost his mortgaged house due to not being able to afford the mortgage and having to live in a 3 bedroom private rented accomadation where the rent is £300 per week and after all bills he's left with £40 to feed 6 of them and that is about to be cut further. How desperate would you be?
I'm not condoning their actions but some of them probably felt they had no choice.
I reckon if I had 5 kids I'd have about £40 left each week to feed them. And I've got a job!! :-(
Just a few points that have occurred to me overnight.
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers? 2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And... 3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
Wow. Just fucking WOW.
Yes, that's just what I thought. I mean, it's obviously nasty, petulant protesters. But, aren't we going to look stupid jumping to that conclusions if it turns out not to be?
Not as stupid as when we find out the moon landings were filmed in Hollywood, it was the queen that crashed Dianas car and it was actually 2Pac, Elvis and JFK that flew the planes into the twin towers.
So lets be generous and accept that no Labour supporters were present at these demonstrations. To which political party would these socialist scumbags align? Here it would be Labour or the Greens. Is there an official Communist Party in the UK, or are we saying that the majority of them would just not vote? I can imagine Russell Brand as being just the type of person who would attend such a protest and we all know who he supported in the end!
"Let's be generous"
That's a dreadful slur on the millions of hard working and retired labour voting people of this country. Don't you forget that it was the population of this country post war that swept Labour to victory and many of those if not all were heroes in their own right.
The Labour movement is an honourable one. Don't you dare to imply that the anarchist protesters from yesterday are in a any way aligned with The Labour movement or party.
So lets be generous and accept that no Labour supporters were present at these demonstrations. To which political party would these socialist scumbags align? Here it would be Labour or the Greens. Is there an official Communist Party in the UK, or are we saying that the majority of them would just not vote? I can imagine Russell Brand as being just the type of person who would attend such a protest and we all know who he supported in the end!
I wish more of them protested when their left friends were wasting anD spending their way to oblivion, causing the need for such
I think for me this sums up a large part of why Labour failed.
NLA has played a very active and welcome part in what has been an extremely well thought out and argued debate on this thread on both sides. He's seen many of us attempt to contradict the accepted view that "Labour ruined the economy" by reference to properly sourced statistics, graphs, statements, etc showing, that for the most part, Laboured performed better or at least no worse than previous Tory governments or the coalition since. Yet despite the level of debate on here being by far the most detailed I've seen in years there still persists this perception that Labour can't be trusted with the economy.
Even accepting that many posters will not agree with every statistic or chart that doesn't support their own view, on both sides of the political spectrum, given the open resources available surely we should agree that running the economy is a bit more nuanced than Labour = always bad, Tory = always good?
Instead of pissing about with stupid stones and celebrities Labour should have been setting out clearly and concisely George Osbornes dismal failure to meet his own 2010 performance indicators for the economy and comparing this to their own pre-2007/8. Until Labour tackle that perception they will get nowhere.
To be clear this isn't a dig at NLA at all, it's just that his statement sums up what a lot of people think.
not a chance and it makes me very happy that the left sided folk never got in, if that is a snap shot of their demographic,
I wish more of them protested when their left friends were wasting anD spending their way to oblivion, causing the need for such cuts
Scum who done that yesterday filth in the bottom of shoe
NLA don't be so quick to judge you're better than that. Yes they went about it all wrong and the few that went too far and defaced war memorials have been arrested and dealt with but a lot of them just felt desperate. Imagine how desperate they must have been to have taken these measures, how bad must their lives been. Cuts, although Cameron says they're fair, do not affect everyone. Not everyone has to use the services that have been cut, not everyone has their lives in tatter but a lot of them that do had a hope that things could change, a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak but now that hope has gone. Try being an unworking single dad who recently lost his wife to cancer, having 5 kids under 9 and have lost his mortgaged house due to not being able to afford the mortgage and having to live in a 3 bedroom private rented accomadation where the rent is £300 per week and after all bills he's left with £40 to feed 6 of them and that is about to be cut further. How desperate would you be?
I'm not condoning their actions but some of them probably felt they had no choice.
I reckon if I had 5 kids I'd have about £40 left each week to feed them. And I've got a job!! :-(
Never mind 40 pounds, I had to feed a family of four on negative income for six years of Labour rule. If I hadn't had the foresight, self discipline, not to mention all the sacrifices over 30 odd years, to save up for a rainy day, we would have been sleeping in cardboard boxes. Why do people today always think it's up to Government to bail them out when the going gets tough. What ever happened to taking personal responsibility? Saving, taking out insurance, don't live beyond your means etc. Having five kids under ten, not having adequate insurance or savings, and a mortgage, is asking for trouble and is a prime example of where society is going wrong.
BA I said the same round about thing 38 days plus ago, if labour had accepted their part explained the actual truths and tried to convince people like me who were indeed not against voting labour in the past, explained what they were actually going to do differently this time, announced the cuts to public services they also would do then maybe just maybe people would not vote tory
They never they focused on the tax the toff tax the rich, tory makes rich richer and poor poorer,
Aiming to divide neighborhoods,to divide social groups
And they underestimated that the very people they were alienating were actually the very people that the term working class (hate that) are
So lets be generous and accept that no Labour supporters were present at these demonstrations. To which political party would these socialist scumbags align? Here it would be Labour or the Greens. Is there an official Communist Party in the UK, or are we saying that the majority of them would just not vote? I can imagine Russell Brand as being just the type of person who would attend such a protest and we all know who he supported in the end!
"Let's be generous"
That's a dreadful slur on the millions of hard working and retired labour voting people of this country. Don't you forget that it was the population of this country post war that swept Labour to victory and many of those if not all were heroes in their own right.
The Labour movement is an honourable one. Don't you dare to imply that the anarchist protesters from yesterday are in a any way aligned with The Labour movement or party.
Rant over.
Taken from the article: - The protester appear to be a mixed group of Labour supporters, Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters and students. Opposing rallies by Britain’s far-right, controversial English Defense League and their rival Unite Against Fascism were held on Saturday in London, but it is unclear if elements of either rally have melded with the anti-Tory demonstrations.
The example I gave was a real one, he had house insurance but it only covered him in the event of his death, he tried to add his wife on after she got diagnosed as she was originally cured but they wouldn't allow it because of a pre-existing illness. The cancer returned and killed her in less than 2 months her youngest child was 11 month old. Eldest was 8. He had a very good well paid job and she worked earned money via Avon just as pocket money really he lost a lot of income whilst she was sick and when she was in remission they took out a small remortgage to get back on their feet and then bam it hits them again. This was one example of real people really struggling and I have many more, people I've seen using foodbanks and people we (the church) have delivered food hampers to at Christmas I'm not saying there are not people that are taking advantage of the benefit system but there are many that genuinely need it and shouldn't be demonised for that.
Comments
1. If you're going to protest about cuts and/or austerity and you're going to use graffiti to get your message across, wouldn't you use the words "cuts" or "austerity" in the graffiti?
2. If you're going to have the shameful audacity to spray graffiti on a WWII War Memorial, would you stop there? Or would you spray further graffiti on other walls and buildings? Have there been any photos of other buildings sprayed with red graffiti in and around Westminster yesterday?
3. The crass stupidity of such an act of wanton vandalism with thousands of cameraphone owners press photographers and TV cameras can surely only have been perpetrated by someone either immensely ignorant or utterly carefree about consequences. Yet we don't seem to have found any photos of the damage being caused, no-one's been arrested or questioned and no-one's claimed responsibility. We have seen the pictures splashed over the internet and TV since yesterday. Yet if you Google Charlie Gilmour you will see how hard it is to commit an act of vandalism in Westminster without being noticed.
4. If a Government wanted to create a mood-swing among the public against public demonstrations, using an agent provocateur to spray grafitti in this way would be the perfect opportunity. And, if it were done at the Government behest, I think the following would happen:
1. The graffiti would mention the "Tories", but not "cuts" - who in Government would want to see "cuts" splashed over the newspapers?
2. An agent provocateur would only spray graffiti in one, significant place; so we wouldn't see the same graffiti, by the same perpetrator on several buildings. And...
3. We wouldn't see pictures of it being done.
It's an interesting thought that it serves David Cameron and Michael Gove's purpose perfectly to see a limited, but terrible piece of vandalism splashed over the news at a time when they would most like to see anti-demonstration measures brought in as soon as possible. Maybe we'll see tougher police measures, draconian, "assumptive" laws and water cannon on the streets of London soon..?
No your far too centre left to be a socialist style leftie
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/labour-left-miliband-hating-english
No not really
If ever there was a nail in the Labour resurrection balloon, that was a huge one.
Watch the videos, it's dominated by the same old Socialist Worker mob and teen / early 20s chanting Fuck the Police. Spare the no choice angle, you do the genuine grievance people no favours associated them with this mob.
By the way, who would be looking after his five young kids while he's out chanting at coppers and knocking barriers over ?
Here it would be Labour or the Greens. Is there an official Communist Party in the UK, or are we saying that the majority of them would just not vote?
I can imagine Russell Brand as being just the type of person who would attend such a protest and we all know who he supported in the end!
But, of course, as soon as the guilty party is named, shamed and properly punished, we can all put way the theory that the government might have done something like that to suit their own agenda. And we can rest assured that the Tory government, under the Chairmanship of Michael Green (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/21/grant-shapps-dean-archer-legal-action-michael-green) and the new Justice Secretary Mrs Blurt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gove#Freedom_of_Information_and_email) are utterly trustworthy, honest and beyond reproach.
That's a dreadful slur on the millions of hard working and retired labour voting people of this country. Don't you forget that it was the population of this country post war that swept Labour to victory and many of those if not all were heroes in their own right.
The Labour movement is an honourable one. Don't you dare to imply that the anarchist protesters from yesterday are in a any way aligned with The Labour movement or party.
Rant over.
NLA has played a very active and welcome part in what has been an extremely well thought out and argued debate on this thread on both sides. He's seen many of us attempt to contradict the accepted view that "Labour ruined the economy" by reference to properly sourced statistics, graphs, statements, etc showing, that for the most part, Laboured performed better or at least no worse than previous Tory governments or the coalition since. Yet despite the level of debate on here being by far the most detailed I've seen in years there still persists this perception that Labour can't be trusted with the economy.
Even accepting that many posters will not agree with every statistic or chart that doesn't support their own view, on both sides of the political spectrum, given the open resources available surely we should agree that running the economy is a bit more nuanced than Labour = always bad, Tory = always good?
Instead of pissing about with stupid stones and celebrities Labour should have been setting out clearly and concisely George Osbornes dismal failure to meet his own 2010 performance indicators for the economy and comparing this to their own pre-2007/8. Until Labour tackle that perception they will get nowhere.
To be clear this isn't a dig at NLA at all, it's just that his statement sums up what a lot of people think.
They never they focused on the tax the toff tax the rich, tory makes rich richer and poor poorer,
Aiming to divide neighborhoods,to divide social groups
And they underestimated that the very people they were alienating were actually the very people that the term working class (hate that) are
The protester appear to be a mixed group of Labour supporters, Scottish National Party (SNP) supporters and students. Opposing rallies by Britain’s far-right, controversial English Defense League and their rival Unite Against Fascism were held on Saturday in London, but it is unclear if elements of either rally have melded with the anti-Tory demonstrations.
http://www.ibtimes.com/london-protests-violence-feared-anti-tory-demonstrations-meet-police-1915527
Care to retract or offer an apology SHG?
I won't hold my breath!
BTW the Labour Party was a great Party 30-40 years ago when it was indeed the "workers" party.