Rob me and you have 30+ days to form a party save the country from abyss and get that giraffe living in ten downing street Too late mate, he's been shot and his trophy is now adorning my living room wall. Saying that, he'll still do a better job than a few that are veering for the seat at the moment, like!
If only we had a permanent connection to the continent shared by the Brits and French.......
Quite. And do you recall the embarassment of the first ten years when the Eurostar clanked through the Kent countryside at 60mph because we were incapable of building 70 miles of high speed line, while the French had already built TGV lines all over their country? And are you aware what will happen should you decide to take Eurostar's new service to the Med? On the way back you, and your family and your luggage will be kicked off the train at Lille, and required to present yourselves in an orderly queue to the UK border police. 90 minutes of your wasted life later, you will be allowed to get back on the " direct" train service. All in the interests of national security of course.
There are things called aeroplanes now Prague
And I never get stopped by UKBP. I told you to stop wearing that burkha.
Just show them your passport next time and show them "without let or hinderance" bit.
I saw that news night and thought that Evan Davis was a smiling assassin, decent replacement for growler Paxman. Not impressed by the Conservative Party Chairman, whatever his name is, mind you what's the betting they keep Michael Gove off the screen during the campaign. Any news on the UKIP manifesto?
stop immigration, get out of Europe then off down the pub. Job done.
I will use this thread if I may.If I start another one Afka will be less pleased. Grant Shapps was on Newsnight and said that you will pay an average of £3000 more in taxes under Labour. The IFS said that the figures do not stack up, it is likely to be in the hundreds. Who do I believe, shall I just pitch a figure somewhere in the middle? The Tories are obviously not alone in producing statistics that do not add up. Before every political broadcast, they should play Little Lies by Fleetwood Mac.
Grant Shapps is Mick Jones' cousin. Fact.
Really Stig? I wonder whether he will be happy that you have thrown that out into the public domain. You have blown his cover!
I will use this thread if I may.If I start another one Afka will be less pleased. Grant Shapps was on Newsnight and said that you will pay an average of £3000 more in taxes under Labour. The IFS said that the figures do not stack up, it is likely to be in the hundreds. Who do I believe, shall I just pitch a figure somewhere in the middle? The Tories are obviously not alone in producing statistics that do not add up. Before every political broadcast, they should play Little Lies by Fleetwood Mac.
That's not - quite - what the IFS said. Just what the BBC said they had said! What they actually say is that the £3,000 figure was unhelpful because it is an aggregate over the lifetime of the next parliament (and is really, therefore, disingenuous unless that is highligthed). So (on the Conservatives' calculation) it would be an extra amount per year in the region of £560 per annum per household. They went on to say that Labour might need to find only £3bn of cuts and £3bn of tax increases not the £15bn claimed by the Conservatives. But added that what Labour have been claiming repeatedly about when they would achieve budget balance is NOT what they signed up to in the Charter for Budget Responsibility. They go on to say that there is real uncertainty about what path Labour want to follow on public finances while the Conservatives have been clearer about what they want to achieve but not how they are going to achieve it. So as clear as mud then. The IFS conclude that there is little value to any figures because neither of the two main parties have said anything about what they are planning.
Interesting points that you have made. You are right as clear as mud. I would like the lie detector brought into play; mind you it would probably blow up.
As labour and tory policies have the same aim, labour will not mess up the economy. The difference will be where some of the money comes from and pace. Labour did not mess up the economy when they were last in power. There was a global crash. Up until then, labour were serving their third term as the economy was in rude health. I dont see how anybody can really argue with this.
Apart from Ed Balls then, who said he was deeply sorry for Labour's failings.
The problem is, Labours failings were around doing what the Tories advocated re bank regulation. Think MPs are paid about right levels. They should not be doing their jobs for the money. If that is the motivation, you get more corruption, not less and money will influence decisions too greatly. Ministers should possibly get quite a bit more as they have a difficult challenging job on top of being an MP.
Also thought that it is widely agreed that the NHS was improving before the crash. It is much harder to give it the money it needs when you don't have it of course.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
I have a mixed bag of views as well. Some people describe me as right-wing because I prefer a competitive free market over inefficient Government-led solutions, but I am also extremely concerned about the environment and also the concentration of wealth and finite resources into the hands of elites and dynasties. Unfortunately no party seems willing to address the latter in a way that doesn't compromise the former - the Government simply cannot be trusted to either responsibly protect the environment or to ensure a competitive economy with a fair wealth distribution without making a complete hash of the whole thing. This is less a symptom of the fact that no party is willing to address these issues but more a symptom of a broken political system and the rise of a political class made up almost entirely of feckless bureaucrats only looking after themselves. Our current system of electing governments and passing laws is broken. FPTP is broken. The way our politicians are selected and held to account is broken.
Despite their salaries and expenses, being an MP is a thankless, stressful and tiring job. The only people who would willingly sacrifice their privacy, their principles and their sanity for the comparatively pitiful level of reward that is paid for holding a position of national office are either extremely stupid or dangerous sociopaths. If we want any kind of meaningful change you have to wonder why all the intelligent people are working in the upper echelons of businesses whereas all the idiots and psychos sit on the green benches and what we can do to remedy that.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
Can I make a counter-argument.
Anything But Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
Both conservatives and labour are committed not to borrow. Their strategies are very similar. Milliband said yesterday, that a lot of his party would not like their policy but a lot of the conservative party don't like Cameron's policies.
Traditionally I come form a Labour voting household, my father was FOC of the Evening Standard for about 20 years, so we were brought up to the Left. Although one of my brothers politics is to the right of Ghengis Khan!!! I agree, some of my views would be seen as right and some as left, however I just see my views as logical, I think in this day and age its tough to pigeon hole voters, due to the amount of information available now. I do often contemplate how interesting it would be if we had a logical/fair party to vote for, I wonder how it would do? So if any one want to start the 'Fair' party let me know.
The Tories, Labour, Lib Dems, UKIP, Greens et al all believe they are 'fair'. Nobody in their right minds would vote for an 'unfair' party!!
Fairness is a subjective thing, and your views, although appearing logical and fair to you, may not be viewed as fair by others.
Yes I am aware of this, it was kinda tongue in cheek.....
I don't know who to vote for and this thread (although helpful and I think has had some really good arguments from both sides), just goes to show how tough it is. I struggle because every time I read a certain argument and I think, that's a good point, something else comes up stating something different. For example, my colleagues at work keep hammering home how crap Labour have been historically re: the economy, yet on here people have counter argued that they would've spent just as much as the coalition since they have come into power etc. I also think that having not been alive in the 70s when it was Callaghan's govt and previous economic hardship, I can only go on the only real recession I have experienced from 2008 onwards, and that was global.
Of course it is not just the economy that people vote on, but it seems to be becoming the overriding factor in all of the debates at the moment. Initially I wanted to vote for the Green party based on their ideals, but having witnessed the poor performance of Natalie Bennett in that interview, I'm not so sure. Also, I don't think their policy on immigration sits that well with me. @Addickted was kind enough to let me know who my candidates are for where I have just moved to, so will probably have to take a closer look at them, the policies of each party etc, but will probably end up being swayed by this thread
I liked the mooted Tory policy of raising inheritance tax to £1m. I can't stand that just as you kick the bucket you potentially have to hand over 40% of your life's work to the government, sickening. But then again, I also think if someone inherits a £50 million pound fortune, then actually it's okay. Complete double standards I know, but I am just of the opinion that you only need X amount in this life to be happy. For me money is more about security, not material possessions.
My biggest fear is the general direction of society today. I have never (touch wood) experienced real hardship. I don't know of any people that really, and I mean really struggle to make ends meet. I genuinely think the welfare state is dying a slow and painful death. It upsets me to read of good public sector workers like nurses etc (better people than I'll ever be), being at the coalface of the cuts. I get that we can no longer fund the NHS as we once could and action needs to be taken, but unless the very wealthiest are asked to stump up, then I can't see a solution.
I would pay for my healthcare if asked (and fair). But then I guess you are talking about some sort of means tested quasi private/public system that could be very hard to administer (I don't know that for sure, just assuming).
Basically, I find it harder now than I ever had to decipher who/what is the best course to take. Without wanting to sound like some sort of conspiracy theorist, part of me thinks that whoever I vote for won't make a difference because I believe that the policies of our country get decided at places like the World Economic Forum in Davos, not by someone like me casting a vote in a ballot box. All feels like a bit of a ceremonial play in which I am an extra.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote:
The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs".
People are always saying they want regular peeps with experience of everyday life to fill MPs shoes rather than privileged toffs.
But see what happens when hoi polloi from comprehensives get elected to parliament? They're crap. No wonder so many of the movers and shakers went to private school. (BTW according to Hansard, it's 4 debates not two but still a very poor record.)
ETA: For comparison my MP, Simon Burns was 34 debates & 22 written questions.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
Can I make a counter-argument.
Anything But Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
Glad to have hooked you on Fiiish. I have seen at 1st hand what is happening to education. Where I work it's senior management posts that have grown in abundance and when teachers have left to find new roles the vacancy is rarely filled. SEN services have been cut. The only difference in the last five years has been the Pupil Premium and that was forced through by the Lib Dems. Public services are under huge pressure. The are three libraries in our surrounding district all fighting to remain open. The Tories wanted them to depend on volunteers rather than pay librarians. This is what's happening up here. I'm well aware Cameron couldn't give a shit about us in the backwaters.
I liked the mooted Tory policy of raising inheritance tax to £1m. I can't stand that just as you kick the bucket you potentially have to hand over 40% of your life's work to the government, sickening. But then again, I also think if someone inherits a £50 million pound fortune, then actually it's okay. Complete double standards I know, but I am just of the opinion that you only need X amount in this life to be happy. For me money is more about security, not material possessions.
The problem with inheritance tax is that those who it is meant to be targeting (children of millionaires) avoid it almost entirely thanks to expensive financial planning and the only people who actually pay it are the children of those who are money-poor but die whilst in the possession of an asset (such as a house in London), the value of which is many times more than what it was paid for, often leaving those kids with an expensive tax bill that in most cases means selling their family home. Because they are money-poor they can't take pre-emptive measures to ensure that the property can be passed down free of tax.
The effect of this is completely counter-intuitive - the poor kids have to sell the family home to pay the tax. Who ends up buying the house? An overseas baron or a rich property investor or land developer, all 3 of which will probably be rich enough to pay someone to ensure they don't pay any inheritance tax.
The tax also raises a completely pitiful amount of money. Indeed the amount that has been raised thanks to better enforcement of current tax laws is more than the amount that would be lost if IHT was scrapped. Scrap the whole thing and introduce some better way of ensuring those who earn masses of money during their lifetime pay their fair share rather than robbing their cold dead corpse and their blameless kids.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
Can I make a counter-argument.
Anything But Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
I have a mixed bag of views as well. Some people describe me as right-wing because I prefer a competitive free market over inefficient Government-led solutions, but I am also extremely concerned about the environment and also the concentration of wealth and finite resources into the hands of elites and dynasties. Unfortunately no party seems willing to address the latter in a way that doesn't compromise the former - the Government simply cannot be trusted to either responsibly protect the environment or to ensure a competitive economy with a fair wealth distribution without making a complete hash of the whole thing. This is less a symptom of the fact that no party is willing to address these issues but more a symptom of a broken political system and the rise of a political class made up almost entirely of feckless bureaucrats only looking after themselves. Our current system of electing governments and passing laws is broken. FPTP is broken. The way our politicians are selected and held to account is broken.
Despite their salaries and expenses, being an MP is a thankless, stressful and tiring job. The only people who would willingly sacrifice their privacy, their principles and their sanity for the comparatively pitiful level of reward that is paid for holding a position of national office are either extremely stupid or dangerous sociopaths. If we want any kind of meaningful change you have to wonder why all the intelligent people are working in the upper echelons of businesses whereas all the idiots and psychos sit on the green benches and what we can do to remedy that.
Best two paragraphs on the whole thread IMO.
Well, I thought that as usual with Fishy he made some good points but went well over the top. He wrote " Despite their salaries and expenses, being an MP is a thankless, stressful and tiring job. " Correct. "The only people who would willingly sacrifice their privacy, their principles and their sanity for the comparatively pitiful level of reward that is paid for holding a position of national office are either extremely stupid or dangerous sociopaths." Wrong and unfair. Just as it was wrong for @brogip to claim that nearly all the MPs were caught fiddling their expenses.
My MP as I said is Ed Davey. I've met him, and written to him several times, and always received helpful coherent answers, as have several of my friends. I checked his expenses situation at the time of the scandal. Clean as a whistle. But perhaps the best example to show Ed Davey is neither of Fishy's characterisations is this story.
It was 6.00 on a Friday evening when I found myself in a cafe in Surbiton, waiting to meet my mate who puts me up when we get together during my visits home. It was around 10 years ago. I noticed that Ed Davey was sitting close by, in earnest discussion with a youngish looking guy who clearly did not look like a Lib Dem party worker. The other guy was talking, Davey was making a lot of notes. I found I could easily hear the discussion. It quickly became apparent that the guy was Army, and he was listing all the inadequacies of the equipment they had in Iraq (it was that time). At the time Davey was an opposition MP, but defence was not his specific remit. He was a constituency MP doing his job, on a Friday evening when most people were off home to his families. They were still there at 6.45 when my mate arrived and we went off to the pub.
Ed Davey is a top bloke,with beliefs and principles, relying just his MP's salary and no record of expense fiddles, but he's far from the only one with such a reputation. Clive Efford for example has an excellent reputation as a constituency MP, helped my Mum get her Blue Badge back, and can apparently be found drinking in the Long Pond. There are a lot of MPs who are shite, lazy, corrupt or criminal. So vote them out. But for heavens sake lets get behind those who try to do a good job, because we need them.
If only we had a permanent connection to the continent shared by the Brits and French.......
We still have one of course only now it's owned by the French and Belgian governments and...er...a Canadian pension fund. More of the UK's family silver gone :-(
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
Can I make a counter-argument.
Anything But Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
Blimey you do go on. I think we get it already .
I don't really get the point of this post. It's not particularly necessary and lowers the tone, especially since you were the one whinging earlier about the direction that this thread was headed in.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote:
The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs".
People are always saying they want regular peeps with experience of everyday life to fill MPs shoes rather than privileged toffs.
But see what happens when hoi polloi from comprehensives get elected to parliament? They're crap. No wonder so many of the movers and shakers went to private school. (BTW according to Hansard, it's 4 debates not two but still a very poor record.)
ETA: For comparison my MP, Simon Burns was 34 debates & 22 written questions.
Appreciate the research. Your comparison reflects just how shit my MP is. However, you denigrate many good MPs who didn't have the privilege of public school education.
I have a mixed bag of views as well. Some people describe me as right-wing because I prefer a competitive free market over inefficient Government-led solutions, but I am also extremely concerned about the environment and also the concentration of wealth and finite resources into the hands of elites and dynasties. Unfortunately no party seems willing to address the latter in a way that doesn't compromise the former - the Government simply cannot be trusted to either responsibly protect the environment or to ensure a competitive economy with a fair wealth distribution without making a complete hash of the whole thing. This is less a symptom of the fact that no party is willing to address these issues but more a symptom of a broken political system and the rise of a political class made up almost entirely of feckless bureaucrats only looking after themselves. Our current system of electing governments and passing laws is broken. FPTP is broken. The way our politicians are selected and held to account is broken.
Despite their salaries and expenses, being an MP is a thankless, stressful and tiring job. The only people who would willingly sacrifice their privacy, their principles and their sanity for the comparatively pitiful level of reward that is paid for holding a position of national office are either extremely stupid or dangerous sociopaths. If we want any kind of meaningful change you have to wonder why all the intelligent people are working in the upper echelons of businesses whereas all the idiots and psychos sit on the green benches and what we can do to remedy that.
I have a mixed bag of views as well. Some people describe me as right-wing because I prefer a competitive free market over inefficient Government-led solutions, but I am also extremely concerned about the environment and also the concentration of wealth and finite resources into the hands of elites and dynasties. Unfortunately no party seems willing to address the latter in a way that doesn't compromise the former - the Government simply cannot be trusted to either responsibly protect the environment or to ensure a competitive economy with a fair wealth distribution without making a complete hash of the whole thing. This is less a symptom of the fact that no party is willing to address these issues but more a symptom of a broken political system and the rise of a political class made up almost entirely of feckless bureaucrats only looking after themselves. Our current system of electing governments and passing laws is broken. FPTP is broken. The way our politicians are selected and held to account is broken.
Despite their salaries and expenses, being an MP is a thankless, stressful and tiring job. The only people who would willingly sacrifice their privacy, their principles and their sanity for the comparatively pitiful level of reward that is paid for holding a position of national office are either extremely stupid or dangerous sociopaths. If we want any kind of meaningful change you have to wonder why all the intelligent people are working in the upper echelons of businesses whereas all the idiots and psychos sit on the green benches and what we can do to remedy that.
Best two paragraphs on the whole thread IMO.
Well, I thought that as usual with Fishy he made some good points but went well over the top. He wrote " Despite their salaries and expenses, being an MP is a thankless, stressful and tiring job. " Correct. "The only people who would willingly sacrifice their privacy, their principles and their sanity for the comparatively pitiful level of reward that is paid for holding a position of national office are either extremely stupid or dangerous sociopaths." Wrong and unfair. Just as it was wrong for @brogip to claim that nearly all the MPs were caught fiddling their expenses.
My MP as I said is Ed Davey. I've met him, and written to him several times, and always received helpful coherent answers, as have several of my friends. I checked his expenses situation at the time of the scandal. Clean as a whistle. But perhaps the best example to show Ed Davey is neither of Fishy's characterisations is this story.
It was 6.00 on a Friday evening when I found myself in a cafe in Surbiton, waiting to meet my mate who puts me up when we get together during my visits home. It was around 10 years ago. I noticed that Ed Davey was sitting close by, in earnest discussion with a youngish looking guy who clearly did not look like a Lib Dem party worker. The other guy was talking, Davey was making a lot of notes. I found I could easily hear the discussion. It quickly became apparent that the guy was Army, and he was listing all the inadequacies of the equipment they had in Iraq (it was that time). At the time Davey was an opposition MP, but defence was not his specific remit. He was a constituency MP doing his job, on a Friday evening when most people were off home to his families. They were still there at 6.45 when my mate arrived and we went off to the pub.
Ed Davey is a top bloke,with beliefs and principles, relying just his MP's salary and no record of expense fiddles, but he's far from the only one with such a reputation. Clive Efford for example has an excellent reputation as a constituency MP, helped my Mum get her Blue Badge back, and can apparently be found drinking in the Long Pond. There are a lot of MPs who are shite, lazy, corrupt or criminal. So vote them out. But for heavens sake lets get behind those who try to do a good job, because we need them.
Perhaps a touch over the top but I make him generally right. If I (or anyone) wanted any kind of real influence in the modern world, I wouldn't dream of going into politics. This generation of politicians have surrended their power to the wealthy, to the corrupt bankers and to the tax avoiding corporations. They've become puppets for the real decision makers who are the driving forces behind the policies that matter.
You don't have to vote to make a difference if instead you try to be an active part in your local community. As it is, people still have the mentality that voting is the only way of having your voice heard (poeple died in wars so you could vote etc etc) so I will be going to the polling station and most likely spoiling my paper. Just my opinion.
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
Can I make a counter-argument.
Anything But Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
Blimey you do go on. I think we get it already .
I don't really get the point of this post. It's not particularly necessary and lowers the tone, especially since you were the one whinging earlier about the direction that this thread was headed in.
He may have been better off countering your view by directing attention to the Nuffield Trust report on the state of the NHS in Wales compared to the rest of the UK.
Highlights include the conclusion that the NHS performance in Wales is broadly in line with England. And of course there's an element of comparing apples with oranges as the Welsh social care budgets have been protected to a higher degree than in England.
My plan is to do no work the day after the election. So on election day, which is pretty boring until 10pm, I will vote early, have a nice lunch, sleep through the fat part of the afternoon and evening so as to have enough in reserve to stay up through the night. Now you've gotta admit that's sad and geeky. Wehey!
My plan - and it has been for five years - is to take Friday 8 May and the following Monday and Tuesday off work, and go to Westminster to watch the shenanigans, jostling, jousting and squabbling up-close and personal. Last time (in 2010) I spent a few hours on Westminster Green and in and around Downing street and Parliament Square. Brilliant fun for a political geek like me. It'll be much better this time...
I don't doubt that there are some very fine people who as MPs do a wonderful job serving their constituents. It's these people who need their power handed back to them in a total reform of the political system.
They are by no means perfect but a white, heterosexual, married, working, car driving man like me is completely disenfranchised by both the major and remaining minor parties.
No wonder you've ditched the white, heterosexual, married, working, car-driving Cameron and Miliband and decided to go to Ukip for something utterly different. Wait, what..?
Here's a plea to everyone - exercise your ABC vote: Anything But Conservatives I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff. The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs". Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places. Rant over. Please ABC.
Can I make a counter-argument.
Anything But Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
Blimey you do go on. I think we get it already .
I don't really get the point of this post. It's not particularly necessary and lowers the tone, especially since you were the one whinging earlier about the direction that this thread was headed in.
He may have been better off countering your view by directing attention to the Nuffield Trust report on the state of the NHS in Wales compared to the rest of the UK.
Highlights include the conclusion that the NHS performance in Wales is broadly in line with England. And of course there's an element of comparing apples with oranges and the Welsh social care budgets have been protected to a higher degree than in England.
They say you shouldn't discuss religion and politics, but so far this has been a great thread and an example of Charlton Life when it's at it's best. We ought to all remember that if we can, and are trying to dig out others in a classless way (which admittedly has hardly happened so far) will not add to what has been a fantastic, informative, thought provoking and intelligent thread.
OK my point regarding who to vote for. I am especially interested in what Prague has said about Ed Davey, not because I think we ought to vote Liberal Democrat, or because I am all excited by centrist politics, but because of the notion of which person will represent which area.
I don't know when 'parties' started to formalise, it certainly wasn't at the beginning of having a Parliament. However we have grown up with the notion of Conservatives/Labour/Green/Liberal/Nationalists/Unionists/UKIP/Whigs and so on, and the introduction of party whips to keep everybody in line. Occasionally it is remarked that this or that person is a good constituency MP as if that is some kind of consolation prize for not rising within the party.
Anyway, I always thought that different areas threw up a person they would best want to represent them, first and foremost. I wonder if a Conservative MP for a fishing place like Hull would have more common ground with a Labour MP for a fishing place like Grimsby, than being divided by party ideologies. I admit to feeling that it might be a bit odd for a candidate to be landed in my patch (Lewisham East) who grew up, was educated, lives and works in Norwich for example.
I know there is an argument for good people, clever competent people to be MP's and to govern, but I also want to relate to that person too. Heidi Alexandra my MP is from Swindon, was Educated in Durham, but is my MP (and a party Whip). Now of course people ought to move and live and work where they want, but if it is difficult to decide who to vote for for many of us, then considering who has the local patch closest to their heart might be the deciding factor.
Anyone who is going to deliberately spoil a ballet paper is fecking pathetic. It wont achieve anything other than wasting the time of someone who has to sit there and count them all, and probably hasn't done anything to you personally. And you will actively take the time to go and do it and waste your own time?
Comments
brogib Member
11:40AM (Might be 10:40AM as you're abroad)
nth london addick said:
Rob me and you have 30+ days to form a party save the country from abyss and get that giraffe living in ten downing street
Too late mate, he's been shot and his trophy is now adorning my living room wall. Saying that, he'll still do a better job than a few that are veering for the seat at the moment, like!
; )
And I never get stopped by UKBP. I told you to stop wearing that burkha.
Just show them your passport next time and show them "without let or hinderance" bit.
I wonder whether he will be happy that you have thrown that out into the public domain.
You have blown his cover!
I would like the lie detector brought into play; mind you it would probably blow up.
Also thought that it is widely agreed that the NHS was improving before the crash. It is much harder to give it the money it needs when you don't have it of course.
Anything
But
Conservatives
I live in a West Yorkshire constituency where hospital services in two of our local hospitals has been downgraded, cutting the number of staff.
The Tory MP Simon Reevell is hardly seen in the constituency office and in the last year only spoken in two debates in parliament. He's a 'part-time' barrister and is known as Mr. "Two-Jobs".
Education is slowly but surely being privatised. I see the consequences of it working in a relatively new academy. Schools need to be secure in LA control where services aren't put out to tender to the lowest bidder. Free schools are set up where there's no pressure on places.
Rant over. Please ABC.
Anything
But
Labour
Look at how the entirely Labour-run Welsh NHS is run. Despite spending more money per capita they have far more problems than the Tory/LibDem run English NHS.
Also academies/free schools have absolutely nothing to do with privatisation. Can I suggest you have a reality check and stop swallowing whatever anti-Tory propaganda that gets fed to you.
I don't know who to vote for and this thread (although helpful and I think has had some really good arguments from both sides), just goes to show how tough it is. I struggle because every time I read a certain argument and I think, that's a good point, something else comes up stating something different. For example, my colleagues at work keep hammering home how crap Labour have been historically re: the economy, yet on here people have counter argued that they would've spent just as much as the coalition since they have come into power etc. I also think that having not been alive in the 70s when it was Callaghan's govt and previous economic hardship, I can only go on the only real recession I have experienced from 2008 onwards, and that was global.
Of course it is not just the economy that people vote on, but it seems to be becoming the overriding factor in all of the debates at the moment. Initially I wanted to vote for the Green party based on their ideals, but having witnessed the poor performance of Natalie Bennett in that interview, I'm not so sure. Also, I don't think their policy on immigration sits that well with me. @Addickted was kind enough to let me know who my candidates are for where I have just moved to, so will probably have to take a closer look at them, the policies of each party etc, but will probably end up being swayed by this thread
I liked the mooted Tory policy of raising inheritance tax to £1m. I can't stand that just as you kick the bucket you potentially have to hand over 40% of your life's work to the government, sickening. But then again, I also think if someone inherits a £50 million pound fortune, then actually it's okay. Complete double standards I know, but I am just of the opinion that you only need X amount in this life to be happy. For me money is more about security, not material possessions.
My biggest fear is the general direction of society today. I have never (touch wood) experienced real hardship. I don't know of any people that really, and I mean really struggle to make ends meet. I genuinely think the welfare state is dying a slow and painful death. It upsets me to read of good public sector workers like nurses etc (better people than I'll ever be), being at the coalface of the cuts. I get that we can no longer fund the NHS as we once could and action needs to be taken, but unless the very wealthiest are asked to stump up, then I can't see a solution.
I would pay for my healthcare if asked (and fair). But then I guess you are talking about some sort of means tested quasi private/public system that could be very hard to administer (I don't know that for sure, just assuming).
Basically, I find it harder now than I ever had to decipher who/what is the best course to take. Without wanting to sound like some sort of conspiracy theorist, part of me thinks that whoever I vote for won't make a difference because I believe that the policies of our country get decided at places like the World Economic Forum in Davos, not by someone like me casting a vote in a ballot box. All feels like a bit of a ceremonial play in which I am an extra.
But see what happens when hoi polloi from comprehensives get elected to parliament? They're crap. No wonder so many of the movers and shakers went to private school.
ETA: For comparison my MP, Simon Burns was 34 debates & 22 written questions.
I have seen at 1st hand what is happening to education. Where I work it's senior management posts that have grown in abundance and when teachers have left to find new roles the vacancy is rarely filled. SEN services have been cut. The only difference in the last five years has been the Pupil Premium and that was forced through by the Lib Dems.
Public services are under huge pressure. The are three libraries in our surrounding district all fighting to remain open. The Tories wanted them to depend on volunteers rather than pay librarians.
This is what's happening up here. I'm well aware Cameron couldn't give a shit about us in the backwaters.
The effect of this is completely counter-intuitive - the poor kids have to sell the family home to pay the tax. Who ends up buying the house? An overseas baron or a rich property investor or land developer, all 3 of which will probably be rich enough to pay someone to ensure they don't pay any inheritance tax.
The tax also raises a completely pitiful amount of money. Indeed the amount that has been raised thanks to better enforcement of current tax laws is more than the amount that would be lost if IHT was scrapped. Scrap the whole thing and introduce some better way of ensuring those who earn masses of money during their lifetime pay their fair share rather than robbing their cold dead corpse and their blameless kids.
My MP as I said is Ed Davey. I've met him, and written to him several times, and always received helpful coherent answers, as have several of my friends. I checked his expenses situation at the time of the scandal. Clean as a whistle. But perhaps the best example to show Ed Davey is neither of Fishy's characterisations is this story.
It was 6.00 on a Friday evening when I found myself in a cafe in Surbiton, waiting to meet my mate who puts me up when we get together during my visits home. It was around 10 years ago. I noticed that Ed Davey was sitting close by, in earnest discussion with a youngish looking guy who clearly did not look like a Lib Dem party worker. The other guy was talking, Davey was making a lot of notes. I found I could easily hear the discussion. It quickly became apparent that the guy was Army, and he was listing all the inadequacies of the equipment they had in Iraq (it was that time). At the time Davey was an opposition MP, but defence was not his specific remit. He was a constituency MP doing his job, on a Friday evening when most people were off home to his families. They were still there at 6.45 when my mate arrived and we went off to the pub.
Ed Davey is a top bloke,with beliefs and principles, relying just his MP's salary and no record of expense fiddles, but he's far from the only one with such a reputation. Clive Efford for example has an excellent reputation as a constituency MP, helped my Mum get her Blue Badge back, and can apparently be found drinking in the Long Pond. There are a lot of MPs who are shite, lazy, corrupt or criminal. So vote them out. But for heavens sake lets get behind those who try to do a good job, because we need them.
You don't have to vote to make a difference if instead you try to be an active part in your local community. As it is, people still have the mentality that voting is the only way of having your voice heard (poeple died in wars so you could vote etc etc) so I will be going to the polling station and most likely spoiling my paper. Just my opinion.
Highlights include the conclusion that the NHS performance in Wales is broadly in line with England. And of course there's an element of comparing apples with oranges as the Welsh social care budgets have been protected to a higher degree than in England.
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26975376
OK my point regarding who to vote for. I am especially interested in what Prague has said about Ed Davey, not because I think we ought to vote Liberal Democrat, or because I am all excited by centrist politics, but because of the notion of which person will represent which area.
I don't know when 'parties' started to formalise, it certainly wasn't at the beginning of having a Parliament. However we have grown up with the notion of Conservatives/Labour/Green/Liberal/Nationalists/Unionists/UKIP/Whigs
Anyway, I always thought that different areas threw up a person they would best want to represent them, first and foremost. I wonder if a Conservative MP for a fishing place like Hull would have more common ground with a Labour MP for a fishing place like Grimsby, than being divided by party ideologies. I admit to feeling that it might be a bit odd for a candidate to be landed in my patch (Lewisham East) who grew up, was educated, lives and works in Norwich for example.
I know there is an argument for good people, clever competent people to be MP's and to govern, but I also want to relate to that person too. Heidi Alexandra my MP is from Swindon, was Educated in Durham, but is my MP (and a party Whip). Now of course people ought to move and live and work where they want, but if it is difficult to decide who to vote for for many of us, then considering who has the local patch closest to their heart might be the deciding factor.
Nuts.