On the basis that their average home gate is a little less than 20,000 (total gate 38.000), my hunch is that the pea brains running back along Wembley Way were not actually Saarfend regulars but Essex folk on a day out to the beautiful borough of Brent.
The question that Pigott needs to answer is what does he offer that we don't already have? As mentioned he's pretty tall but not particularly bulky or strong, his best game is played on the ground and to his feet, which is highly commendable - however, Watt and Igor both like the same style - Watt can take people on, and win, and a fully-fit Igor can (and did) make some great runs to beat the line and has a decent jump/header for a relatively smaller striker. KAG is still developing but he also seems happier with playing to feet.
What we lack and need is a big lump, not necessarily tall (Kermorgant was no beanpole) but can outfight and outmuscle gnarly old centrebacks and fight for a loose ball and win. Is Pigott able to become that player? Possibly. But if he can't convince the Powers That Be of that, or make another convincing argument, then under the RD model the logic is probably going to be to cash in whilst his stock is high and he's still under contract.
Must admit it was nice to see Joe score the leveler. But let's not get too carried away, if that was Champ, or even league one level, would any striker be afforded that much time to take a touch and get a shot away within the opposition 12 yard box? I doubt it.
Must admit it was nice to see Joe score the leveler. But let's not get too carried away, if that was Champ, or even league one level, would any striker be afforded that much time to take a touch and get a shot away within the opposition 12 yard box? I doubt it.
Did you see the space the Norwich scorers had? More than Joe.
>The question that Pigott needs to answer is what does he offer that we don't already have? As mentioned he's pretty tall but not particularly bulky or strong, his best game is played on the ground and to his feet, which is highly commendable - however, Watt and Igor both like the same style - Watt can take people on, and win, and a fully-fit Igor can (and did) make some great runs to beat the line and has a decent jump/header for a relatively smaller striker. KAG is still developing but he also seems happier with playing to feet.
What we lack and need is a big lump, not necessarily tall (Kermorgant was no beanpole) but can outfight and outmuscle gnarly old centrebacks and fight for a loose ball and win. Is Pigott able to become that player? Possibly. But if he can't convince the Powers That Be of that, or make another convincing argument, then under the RD model the logic is probably going to be to cash in whilst his stock is high and he's still under contract.
I'm not sure he needs to offer something we don't already have (although I think he does), I think he needs to fit with the style of football that we are going to try and play (which I think he does under Luzon). We need to buy a target man without doubt, but you need 5 strikers in a Championship squad and I would like to see him and KAG be the other two. Watt and Igor were both struggling towards the end of the season and it would be good to be able to rotate.
He's not a Vetokele type that will try and get behind the back 4, and he's not going to run at defences like Watt. As other posters have said he likes to drop deep to collect the ball, and will look to bring the wingers into play. When attacking the box he won't be the guy attacking the 6 yard box, he will be sitting on the penalty spot waiting for the cut back. I think he knows his game well (despite what Peeters said about him), and could be a good player in the right team.
With a year to go on his contract I'd much rather give him a crack at the first team, and if it doesn't work out at least we can say he had a chance and we move on. What I don't think would be beneficial is another year in a lower league where, even if he does well, would we extend his contract based on performances in L1/L2?
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
He's not a Vetokele type that will try and get behind the back 4, and he's not going to run at defences like Watt. As other posters have said he likes to drop deep to collect the ball, and will look to bring the wingers into play. When attacking the box he won't be the guy attacking the 6 yard box, he will be sitting on the penalty spot waiting for the cut back. I think he knows his game well (despite what Peeters said about him), and could be a good player in the right team.
You have described a decent attacking midfielder - something we do need to recruit - rather than a centre forward.
Joe needs to add some of the things you have said he doesn't do and also to vastly improve his skills in the air. I hope someone is giving him good advice and he will be working hard on all of that over the summer, rather than putting his feet up and thinking he is the dog's bits for scoring at Wembley. Truth is, this was L2 and he didn't make the starting line-up. And I saw him up at Uddersfield where he didn't make much impression on their youth team centre backs. So there is work for him to do.
I hope he makes it and makes it with us but the odds are against that happening I'm afraid.
Joe needs to add some of the things you have said he doesn't do and also to vastly improve his skills in the air. I hope someone is giving him good advice and he will be working hard on all of that over the summer, rather than putting his feet up and thinking he is the dog's bits for scoring at Wembley. Truth is, this was L2 and he didn't make the starting line-up. And I saw him up at Uddersfield where he didn't make much impression on their youth team centre backs. So there is work for him to do.
Without doubt, there are areas of his game he needs to improve, but he's still 21 without a lot of first team football under his belt.
In the Bournemouth game at the end of the season, they didn't play to Yann's head, they played to his feet and he bought their other players into the game, this is where I could see Joe's role.
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
But those two players you mention were scoring a ton of goals at those levels. Joe Pigott, whilst he had the desired impact in the final, hasn't been doing that Southend. I think he is at about 1 in 3, which is about right for someone who is a decent player at that level.
If we send him out on loan again next season, I simply can't see us giving another contract to a striker who will then be 22 but has yet to score a league goal for us.
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
True (R Lambert too?), it's not a simple formula that you put in a player age and position and you get a FIFA potential rating, but there's a fair bit missing from his game at this stage for me to think he'll be a star for us.
However it kind of feels like I'm slagging off our own player now, which isn't what I set out to do. As I said, loved his goal in the playoff final and feel that L1 would be a good challenge next season to see if he can earn a new deal.
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
But those two players you mention were scoring a ton of goals at those levels. Joe Pigott, whilst he had the desired impact in the final, hasn't been doing that Southend. I think he is at about 1 in 3, which is about right for someone who is a decent player at that level.
If we send him out on loan again next season, I simply can't see us giving another contract to a striker who will then be 22 but has yet to score a league goal for us.
Southend were in League Two (4th Level) Poole Town were in the Wessex League (When Charlie Austin was with them) ... (9th Level) Stocksbridge were in the Northern Premier Divison (When Jamie Vardy was with them) ... (7th Level)
Am sure if you stuck Pigott down that far he'd probably be banging the goals in like the two mentioned players
i.e. he spent time on loan @ Bromley (6th Level) as an 18-year old and scored 3 goals in just five matches
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
True (R Lambert too?), it's not a simple formula that you put in a player age and position and you get a FIFA potential rating, but there's a fair bit missing from his game at this stage for me to think he'll be a star for us.
However it kind of feels like I'm slagging off our own player now, which isn't what I set out to do. As I said, loved his goal in the playoff final and feel that L1 would be a good challenge next season to see if he can earn a new deal.
Rickie Lambert is a very good example actually because when he about 21 was with Macclesfield he scored 8-goals in 44-appearances during the single season he was with them (Third Division)... He then went on and joined Stockport County who were in the Second Division at the time and over a three year spell he made 98-appearances he only scored 18-goals.
Prior to his last season @ Bristol Rovers in 2008... He only had one earlier season where he scored 22-goals which was in 2006 with Rochdale
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
True (R Lambert too?), it's not a simple formula that you put in a player age and position and you get a FIFA potential rating, but there's a fair bit missing from his game at this stage for me to think he'll be a star for us.
However it kind of feels like I'm slagging off our own player now, which isn't what I set out to do. As I said, loved his goal in the playoff final and feel that L1 would be a good challenge next season to see if he can earn a new deal.
Rickie Lambert is a very good example actually because when he about 21 was with Macclesfield he scored 8-goals in 44-appearances during the single season he was with them (Third Division)... He then went on and joined Stockport County who were in the Second Division at the time and over a three year spell he made 98-appearances he only scored 18-goals.
Prior to his last season @ Bristol Rovers in 2008... He only had one earlier season where he scored 22-goals which was in 2006 with Rochdale
He also was a central midfielder before being converted to a striker at Bristol Rovers...
We need far better than Joe for this coming season. He may at some point be good enough for championship but at this stage he's not any better than, say, gorgeous George. Lets be honest, he was a flop.
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Just playing devil's advocate but what if he goes out to League One does well and then refuses a new deal due to something like lack of opportunity or being berated as terrible after he led the line vs Millwall
I see what you're saying but that's a potential problem with every young player ever. If we took that attitude we'd keep on every under performing player under 23 just in case. You have to draw the line somewhere and 'doing ok at 21 in L2' is below that for me if we're looking to push on.
Charlie Austin was playing for Poole Town when he was 20 and Jamie Vardy was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels at 21. I know they are (in the main) the exception to the rule but - as the kids say - #justsaying
True (R Lambert too?), it's not a simple formula that you put in a player age and position and you get a FIFA potential rating, but there's a fair bit missing from his game at this stage for me to think he'll be a star for us.
However it kind of feels like I'm slagging off our own player now, which isn't what I set out to do. As I said, loved his goal in the playoff final and feel that L1 would be a good challenge next season to see if he can earn a new deal.
Rickie Lambert is a very good example actually because when he about 21 was with Macclesfield he scored 8-goals in 44-appearances during the single season he was with them (Third Division)... He then went on and joined Stockport County who were in the Second Division at the time and over a three year spell he made 98-appearances he only scored 18-goals.
Prior to his last season @ Bristol Rovers in 2008... He only had one earlier season where he scored 22-goals which was in 2006 with Rochdale
He also was a central midfielder before being converted to a striker at Bristol Rovers...
The trouble is, for someone of his age, we should be talking about someone who has played 80-90 games out on loan (like Bamford, who is a similar age). But for whatever reason, he hasn't played anywhere near that for us to be able to judge him on.
In an ideal world he'd have 2 years left on his contract and he could go and get some more first team football this coming season, and we could be having a more informed discussion this time next summer.
It'll be interesting to see where he starts the season.
if that was Champ, or even league one level, would any striker be afforded that much time to take a touch and get a shot away within the opposition 12 yard box? I doubt it.
You have seen Charltons defending over the last couple of years right?
Don't think he's good enough for the Premier league and he'd likely just end up bench warming or playing cup games so he'd need to think about whether he wants to actually play.
Personally think we should be in for him if we get promoted, but if we don't then he'll have better options.
Wouldn’t you rather do that on a 3 year contract being a bits and pieces footballer than play week in and out out a lower level?
Big difference between a lower league player signing a life changing deal than a player who has already made a fortune just happy being an unused squad player.
Comments
What we lack and need is a big lump, not necessarily tall (Kermorgant was no beanpole) but can outfight and outmuscle gnarly old centrebacks and fight for a loose ball and win. Is Pigott able to become that player? Possibly. But if he can't convince the Powers That Be of that, or make another convincing argument, then under the RD model the logic is probably going to be to cash in whilst his stock is high and he's still under contract.
But let's not get too carried away, if that was Champ, or even league one level, would any striker be afforded that much time to take a touch and get a shot away within the opposition 12 yard box? I doubt it.
He's not a Vetokele type that will try and get behind the back 4, and he's not going to run at defences like Watt. As other posters have said he likes to drop deep to collect the ball, and will look to bring the wingers into play. When attacking the box he won't be the guy attacking the 6 yard box, he will be sitting on the penalty spot waiting for the cut back. I think he knows his game well (despite what Peeters said about him), and could be a good player in the right team.
With a year to go on his contract I'd much rather give him a crack at the first team, and if it doesn't work out at least we can say he had a chance and we move on. What I don't think would be beneficial is another year in a lower league where, even if he does well, would we extend his contract based on performances in L1/L2?
Pleased for him and for us that Saturday was a success, and drunkenly celebrated his goal and their win, but L2 playoffs is a bit different to our level.
L1 next season for him I'd say, at least first 6 months, and if he has success there then we can extend his deal.
Joe needs to add some of the things you have said he doesn't do and also to vastly improve his skills in the air. I hope someone is giving him good advice and he will be working hard on all of that over the summer, rather than putting his feet up and thinking he is the dog's bits for scoring at Wembley. Truth is, this was L2 and he didn't make the starting line-up. And I saw him up at Uddersfield where he didn't make much impression on their youth team centre backs. So there is work for him to do.
I hope he makes it and makes it with us but the odds are against that happening I'm afraid.
Without doubt, there are areas of his game he needs to improve, but he's still 21 without a lot of first team football under his belt.
In the Bournemouth game at the end of the season, they didn't play to Yann's head, they played to his feet and he bought their other players into the game, this is where I could see Joe's role.
If we send him out on loan again next season, I simply can't see us giving another contract to a striker who will then be 22 but has yet to score a league goal for us.
However it kind of feels like I'm slagging off our own player now, which isn't what I set out to do. As I said, loved his goal in the playoff final and feel that L1 would be a good challenge next season to see if he can earn a new deal.
Poole Town were in the Wessex League (When Charlie Austin was with them) ... (9th Level)
Stocksbridge were in the Northern Premier Divison (When Jamie Vardy was with them) ... (7th Level)
Am sure if you stuck Pigott down that far he'd probably be banging the goals in like the two mentioned players
i.e. he spent time on loan @ Bromley (6th Level) as an 18-year old and scored 3 goals in just five matches
Prior to his last season @ Bristol Rovers in 2008... He only had one earlier season where he scored 22-goals which was in 2006 with Rochdale
In an ideal world he'd have 2 years left on his contract and he could go and get some more first team football this coming season, and we could be having a more informed discussion this time next summer.
It'll be interesting to see where he starts the season.
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/watford-reportedly-set-to-make-20-goal-ace-first-summer-signing-in-wake-of-promotion/amp/
Personally think we should be in for him if we get promoted, but if we don't then he'll have better options.
Big difference between a lower league player signing a life changing deal than a player who has already made a fortune just happy being an unused squad player.