Interesting that a LABOUR MP is quoted expressing concerns as to BBC impartiality.
Ah yes, Kate Hoey...she says...
Ms Hoey adds that she has concerns that the BBC ‘very rarely’ reports Labour MPs’ views on Europe. She says:
‘Even Today in Parliament [on Radio 4] always tries to convey Tory splits on Europe, and this doesn’t help the perception of an EU bias. There are Labour MPs with strong views on Europe as well. It doesn’t help that the BBC very rarely reports these views.’
Which is odd because on the World at One this very lunchtime I was able to listen to Gisella Stuart, another notable Eurosceptic Labour MP (and German born and raised) matched up against the pro-ish European Tory Damien Green. So Hoey is talking a lot of bollocks. She always has done.
I agree that the actual story (of the BBC getting EU funds, albeit pretty small beer) seems on the face of it a bit rum.
Actually I live in the badlands of Crystal Palace rather than the flat white quaffing liberal enclave of East Greenwich. Seriously though I feel you're being willfully disingenuous. Both the BBC and its good friend the Labour Party are cringingly right on and sanctimonious. Both have a problem with seeing any issue from different perspectives beacuse their staff are drawn from such narrow social classes. I mix with a lot of these people and its telling that a lot of them admit as much but daren't put their heads above the parapet for obvious reasons. BTW I'm not a Conservative in a broad or narrow sense. The Tories have been an embarrassment in so many ways but my God they are made to look like geniuses by those that are supposed to be holding them in check.
I mix with a lot of these people and its telling that a lot of them admit as much but daren't put their heads above the parapet for obvious reasons.
Sorry, what exactly are "these people" and what exactly do they admit when they are hob -nobbing with you, who seems proud to say you are not "one of them"?
BTW have you read Nick Robinson today saying that Cameron on the election bus threatened that he would "close the BBC down" because one of them had upset him about something? The thing is that Nick Robinson is himself known to be Tory leaning, but of course is far too professional to let that show in his work.
I mix with a lot of these people and its telling that a lot of them admit as much but daren't put their heads above the parapet for obvious reasons.
Sorry, what exactly are "these people" and what exactly do they admit when they are hob -nobbing with you, who seems proud to say you are not "one of them"?
BTW have you read Nick Robinson today saying that Cameron on the election bus threatened that he would "close the BBC down" because one of them had upset him about something? The thing is that Nick Robinson is himself known to be Tory leaning, but of course is far too professional to let that show in his work.
Through my other half I know quite a few people who work for the BBC and the Guardian, it's helped colour my views. BTW I'm fully aware you can accuse the Tories of being equally narrow in their composition but at least they don't present themselves so self righteously. Hope things work out for you in 2017.
The EU is a Country, it's members merely 'Counties'. In the future all individual customs and heritage will disappear. This is what will be delivered to our children
The EU is a Country, it's members merely 'Counties'. In the future all individual customs and heritage will disappear. This is what will be delivered to our children
The EU is a Country, it's members merely 'Counties'. In the future all individual customs and heritage will disappear. This is what will be delivered to our children
The EU is a Country, it's members merely 'Counties'. In the future all individual customs and heritage will disappear. This is what will be delivered to our children
The EU is a Country, it's members merely 'Counties'. In the future all individual customs and heritage will disappear. This is what will be delivered to our children
I can imagine Nick Clegg in the front row looking up at the Fuhrer with a tear in his eye.
He's been doing that for the last 5 years
Obviously we don't support a lot of the Nazis policies but we feel it's important to remain within the National Socialist coalition to prevent them implementing.....
The EU is a Country, it's members merely 'Counties'. In the future all individual customs and heritage will disappear. This is what will be delivered to our children
I can imagine Nick Clegg in the front row looking up at the Fuhrer with a tear in his eye.
He's been doing that for the last 5 years
Obviously we don't support a lot of the Nazis policies but we feel it's important to remain within the National Socialist coalition to prevent them implementing.....
I mix with a lot of these people and its telling that a lot of them admit as much but daren't put their heads above the parapet for obvious reasons.
Sorry, what exactly are "these people" and what exactly do they admit when they are hob -nobbing with you, who seems proud to say you are not "one of them"?
BTW have you read Nick Robinson today saying that Cameron on the election bus threatened that he would "close the BBC down" because one of them had upset him about something? The thing is that Nick Robinson is himself known to be Tory leaning, but of course is far too professional to let that show in his work.
Through my other half I know quite a few people who work for the BBC and the Guardian, it's helped colour my views. BTW I'm fully aware you can accuse the Tories of being equally narrow in their composition but at least they don't present themselves so self righteously. Hope things work out for you in 2017.
For me? I'm a pro European centrist. I'd probably vote Merkel if I lived in Germany. Difficult to find a political voice in Britain, but I've voted Lib Dem since 1997.
"metropolitan elite" is a neat sounding phrase, but it's often used by people with chips on their shoulders, and then by populist politicians to secure such people's votes. Yes Mr Farage, I'm looking at you, and heaven knows, if there is a rational definition of the phrase, he'd fit it.
Do you not think that plenty of people have chips on their shoulders for genuine reasons? The party that was set up to represent the weakest in society embarked on a course that was massively damaging to those same peoples prospects and refused to engage in a debate as to why. In fact rather than debate it shouted insults at any who dared challenge them and sneered about 'populism' (god forbid) when it became clear that it's core vote was slipping away.
I'm actually looking at this from an outside perspective and I'm not drawn to Labour or UKIP (though their initial small 'L' liberal incarnation was interesting). My hunch for the future is that it won't be UKIP who represents the traditional working class but it won't be Labour either. I think there's room for an anti EU left wing populist party within the the British political system and if it gains traction Labour are in big trouble.
I mix with a lot of these people and its telling that a lot of them admit as much but daren't put their heads above the parapet for obvious reasons.
Sorry, what exactly are "these people" and what exactly do they admit when they are hob -nobbing with you, who seems proud to say you are not "one of them"?
BTW have you read Nick Robinson today saying that Cameron on the election bus threatened that he would "close the BBC down" because one of them had upset him about something? The thing is that Nick Robinson is himself known to be Tory leaning, but of course is far too professional to let that show in his work.
Through my other half I know quite a few people who work for the BBC and the Guardian, it's helped colour my views. BTW I'm fully aware you can accuse the Tories of being equally narrow in their composition but at least they don't present themselves so self righteously. Hope things work out for you in 2017.
"metropolitan elite" is a neat sounding phrase, but it's often used by people with chips on their shoulders,
"people with chips on their shoulders" is a neat sounding phrase, but it's often used by people that want to discredit views they don't agree with. Take out the sayer and you automatically shoot the view down, right?
On the one hand this thread has been brilliant, not least for the huge amount of irony from both sides when trying to discredit each other.
What will eventually kill Labour and the Conservative party is people voting for the party that best represents their views. Much harder to happen with our electoral system as you tend to vote for what you view to be the lesser of two evils - but the growth of new parties makes the day that happens closer. I am definitely not a supporter of UKIP, but getting 20% of the vote and 1 seat is not democracy in any sense of the word.
The referendum will, in my opinion, be a waste of time as the British people will vote to stay in and that decision is unlikely to be accepted. There will be accusations of Cameron rigging the vote, or that the vote was so close that we need another referendum in a couple of years etc... The problem with this is that uncertainty doesn't help the country. I'd rather we had the vote in September and got it over with!
Beware, S&P were immediately cutting the outlook for UK government debt to “negative” from “stable” in view of a posible exit from the EU. Leaving the EU would be very bad for the UK economy and jobs...
I think the BBC report yesterday on David Cameron negotiating changes went something like no negotiated changes will occur, but Cameron wants a cast iron guarantee that the issue will be looked at sometime!
......big move by the Tories most crucial constituency to stay in the EU.
Once again events move in Cameron's direction at a critical moment, as Napoleon said, "Send me lucky generals."
I'm shocked that big business supports the importation of cheap labour. They've made me reassess my whole take on who benefits from open borders.
Big business stayed on the sidelines of the debate for a long time, but following the rise of UKIP and the looming referendum they have made their move public.
That matters a lot, and shows the foolishness of Blair/Brown in not forcing the issue much, much earlier.
David Cameron talking to the media after negotiations. Forgive me but he is spouting a load of bollocks in this brief interview, if anybody can tell me what he is actually meant to be saying or announcing I am open to trying to understand, but it really sounds like high level bollocks.
David Cameron talking to the media after negotiations. Forgive me but he is spouting a load of bollocks in this brief interview, if anybody can tell me what he is actually meant to be saying or announcing I am open to trying to understand, but it really sounds like high level bollocks.
Bollocks pretty much sums it up.
the whole 'renegotiation' is actually a piece of theatre designed to give the illusion that something has changed in the UK's relationship with the EU therefore vote 'YES' everybody!
Cameron is as Europhile as they come when you look into the whites of his eyes and is perfectly happy thank you with the EU just as it is.
As an ex PR 'Spiv' however he is savvy enough to know that making a few Eurosceptic noises from time to time will dupe the gullible and vaguely dissatisfied which should be sufficient to turn any referendum his way with the assistance of a rabidly Europhile BBC to boot.
David Cameron talking to the media after negotiations. Forgive me but he is spouting a load of bollocks in this brief interview, if anybody can tell me what he is actually meant to be saying or announcing I am open to trying to understand, but it really sounds like high level bollocks.
Bollocks pretty much sums it up.
the whole 'renegotiation' is actually a piece of theatre designed to give the illusion that something has changed in the UK's relationship with the EU therefore vote 'YES' everybody!
Cameron is as Europhile as they come when you look into the whites of his eyes and is perfectly happy thank you with the EU just as it is.
As an ex PR 'Spiv' however he is savvy enough to know that making a few Eurosceptic noises from time to time will dupe the gullible and vaguely dissatisfied which should be sufficient to turn any referendum his way with the assistance of a rabidly Europhile BBC to boot.
So, Len, are you for or against our remaining in the EU.......:)
Let's make up our minds when there has been some proper independent analysis. It is far from being a black and white issue. Every opinion will be biased, and you have to judge whether you agree with the bias, before knowing if you agree with the conclusion.
This from 18 months ago, not sure much progress has been made. Suggests no one has the answer and no one knows how to work it out.
The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) is calling for more research into the benefits of both staying in and leaving the EU.
"So far, while there has been plenty of partisan rhetoric, there has been little serious and comprehensive analysis of the implications for the British economy of an exit from the EU," says NIESR's director Jonathan Portes, writing in the group's Economic Review.
"It is vital that the UK political debate on EU membership over the next few years is informed by high-quality, objective economic analysis. There will be few decisions that will be so important for our long-term economic future."
David Cameron talking to the media after negotiations. Forgive me but he is spouting a load of bollocks in this brief interview, if anybody can tell me what he is actually meant to be saying or announcing I am open to trying to understand, but it really sounds like high level bollocks.
Bollocks pretty much sums it up.
the whole 'renegotiation' is actually a piece of theatre designed to give the illusion that something has changed in the UK's relationship with the EU therefore vote 'YES' everybody!
Cameron is as Europhile as they come when you look into the whites of his eyes and is perfectly happy thank you with the EU just as it is.
As an ex PR 'Spiv' however he is savvy enough to know that making a few Eurosceptic noises from time to time will dupe the gullible and vaguely dissatisfied which should be sufficient to turn any referendum his way with the assistance of a rabidly Europhile BBC to boot.
I am a Europhile too, but also want the relationship, how shall I put it, revisited. Cameron has promised tough negotiation followed by a referendum, he has schlepped abroad to wave his willy about and found out it is too tiny, but he will extract a (cast iron) promise for a shipment of Viagra sometime in the future. Anyway the country has voted for him to be the Prime Minister and our leader, and he is not as powerful as he would like to think (despite allegedly threatening to 'close down the BBC' during the election campaign).
Let's make up our minds when there has been some proper independent analysis. It is far from being a black and white issue. Every opinion will be biased, and you have to judge whether you agree with the bias, before knowing if you agree with the conclusion.
This from 18 months ago, not sure much progress has been made. Suggests no one has the answer and no one knows how to work it out.
The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) is calling for more research into the benefits of both staying in and leaving the EU.
"So far, while there has been plenty of partisan rhetoric, there has been little serious and comprehensive analysis of the implications for the British economy of an exit from the EU," says NIESR's director Jonathan Portes, writing in the group's Economic Review.
"It is vital that the UK political debate on EU membership over the next few years is informed by high-quality, objective economic analysis. There will be few decisions that will be so important for our long-term economic future."
A research institute calling for more research....hey maybe they should get on with it then?
David Cameron talking to the media after negotiations. Forgive me but he is spouting a load of bollocks in this brief interview, if anybody can tell me what he is actually meant to be saying or announcing I am open to trying to understand, but it really sounds like high level bollocks.
Bollocks pretty much sums it up.
the whole 'renegotiation' is actually a piece of theatre designed to give the illusion that something has changed in the UK's relationship with the EU therefore vote 'YES' everybody!
Cameron is as Europhile as they come when you look into the whites of his eyes and is perfectly happy thank you with the EU just as it is.
As an ex PR 'Spiv' however he is savvy enough to know that making a few Eurosceptic noises from time to time will dupe the gullible and vaguely dissatisfied which should be sufficient to turn any referendum his way with the assistance of a rabidly Europhile BBC to boot.
Len, you're spot on even though my beliefs and positioning is quite possibly diametrically opposed!
T'was only after the election that I saw that Cameron's strategy on Europe was both well constructed and wholly in favour of the status quo. It was done to outflank UKIP and his 80 odd mad fellas of the back benches.
But also because there are much bigger issues at stake. This weekend Greece. An ongoing Mediterranean refugee question; the Ukraine and of course IS.
If someone misjudged the Greek negotiations then we are all looking at a very different future - hopefully that can is kicked down the road by Monday?
My point is that if you look at instability in North Africa and the Middle East then surely it's in our interests to support Greece plus find solutions to the refugee issues in Italy.
I'd go further and look to build relations with Turkey too.
Please never forget that the EU was conceived as a peace project to find political and not military solutions. I believe an English civil servant and a French guy dreamt it up in light of the failure of the League of Nations.
I only see what I see and am sure there's a complex chess game behind the scenes. Once it gets to the voters the dice are loaded... And some would say that's as it should be!
Comments
Interesting that a LABOUR MP is quoted expressing concerns as to BBC impartiality.
Ms Hoey adds that she has concerns that the BBC ‘very rarely’ reports Labour MPs’ views on Europe. She says:
‘Even Today in Parliament [on Radio 4] always tries to convey Tory splits on Europe, and this doesn’t help the perception of an EU bias. There are Labour MPs with strong views on Europe as well. It doesn’t help that the BBC very rarely reports these views.’
Which is odd because on the World at One this very lunchtime I was able to listen to Gisella Stuart, another notable Eurosceptic Labour MP (and German born and raised) matched up against the pro-ish European Tory Damien Green. So Hoey is talking a lot of bollocks. She always has done.
I agree that the actual story (of the BBC getting EU funds, albeit pretty small beer) seems on the face of it a bit rum.
Sorry, what exactly are "these people" and what exactly do they admit when they are hob -nobbing with you, who seems proud to say you are not "one of them"?
BTW have you read Nick Robinson today saying that Cameron on the election bus threatened that he would "close the BBC down" because one of them had upset him about something? The thing is that Nick Robinson is himself known to be Tory leaning, but of course is far too professional to let that show in his work.
"metropolitan elite" is a neat sounding phrase, but it's often used by people with chips on their shoulders, and then by populist politicians to secure such people's votes. Yes Mr Farage, I'm looking at you, and heaven knows, if there is a rational definition of the phrase, he'd fit it.
I'm actually looking at this from an outside perspective and I'm not drawn to Labour or UKIP (though their initial small 'L' liberal incarnation was interesting). My hunch for the future is that it won't be UKIP who represents the traditional working class but it won't be Labour either. I think there's room for an anti EU left wing populist party within the the British political system and if it gains traction Labour are in big trouble.
On the one hand this thread has been brilliant, not least for the huge amount of irony from both sides when trying to discredit each other.
I applaud you all.
The referendum will, in my opinion, be a waste of time as the British people will vote to stay in and that decision is unlikely to be accepted. There will be accusations of Cameron rigging the vote, or that the vote was so close that we need another referendum in a couple of years etc... The problem with this is that uncertainty doesn't help the country. I'd rather we had the vote in September and got it over with!
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/letters/article4479064.ece
......big move by the Tories most crucial constituency to stay in the EU.
Once again events move in Cameron's direction at a critical moment, as Napoleon said, "Send me lucky generals."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33278440
Basically a failure, is it?
That matters a lot, and shows the foolishness of Blair/Brown in not forcing the issue much, much earlier.
David Cameron talking to the media after negotiations.
Forgive me but he is spouting a load of bollocks in this brief interview, if anybody can tell me what he is actually meant to be saying or announcing I am open to trying to understand, but it really sounds like high level bollocks.
the whole 'renegotiation' is actually a piece of theatre designed to give the illusion that something has changed in the UK's relationship with the EU therefore vote 'YES' everybody!
Cameron is as Europhile as they come when you look into the whites of his eyes and is perfectly happy thank you with the EU just as it is.
As an ex PR 'Spiv' however he is savvy enough to know that making a few Eurosceptic noises from time to time will dupe the gullible and vaguely dissatisfied which should be sufficient to turn any referendum his way with the assistance of a rabidly Europhile BBC to boot.
This from 18 months ago, not sure much progress has been made. Suggests no one has the answer and no one knows how to work it out.
The National Institute of Economic and Social Research (NIESR) is calling for more research into the benefits of both staying in and leaving the EU.
"So far, while there has been plenty of partisan rhetoric, there has been little serious and comprehensive analysis of the implications for the British economy of an exit from the EU," says NIESR's director Jonathan Portes, writing in the group's Economic Review.
"It is vital that the UK political debate on EU membership over the next few years is informed by high-quality, objective economic analysis. There will be few decisions that will be so important for our long-term economic future."
Anyway the country has voted for him to be the Prime Minister and our leader, and he is not as powerful as he would like to think (despite allegedly threatening to 'close down the BBC' during the election campaign).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11689611/David-Cameron-threatened-to-close-down-BBC-Nick-Robinson-claims.html
T'was only after the election that I saw that Cameron's strategy on Europe was both well constructed and wholly in favour of the status quo. It was done to outflank UKIP and his 80 odd mad fellas of the back benches.
But also because there are much bigger issues at stake. This weekend Greece. An ongoing Mediterranean refugee question; the Ukraine and of course IS.
If someone misjudged the Greek negotiations then we are all looking at a very different future - hopefully that can is kicked down the road by Monday?
My point is that if you look at instability in North Africa and the Middle East then surely it's in our interests to support Greece plus find solutions to the refugee issues in Italy.
I'd go further and look to build relations with Turkey too.
Please never forget that the EU was conceived as a peace project to find political and not military solutions. I believe an English civil servant and a French guy dreamt it up in light of the failure of the League of Nations.
I only see what I see and am sure there's a complex chess game behind the scenes. Once it gets to the voters the dice are loaded... And some would say that's as it should be!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2019193/Sir-Richard-Branson-Virgin-Switzerland-blow-British-economy.html
Oh wait...