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Crossrail
Comments
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The hicks in the sticks have HS1golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!0 -
I will be travelling on Crossrail this afternoon. Hoping to explore the new Canary Wharf station if I get the chance.0
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Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!3 -
All the stations are very impressive. I've been fortunate to visit all the main 5 LU ones and a few RfLI sites a few times during the construction phases.Sark99 said:I will be travelling on Crossrail this afternoon. Hoping to explore the new Canary Wharf station if I get the chance.
Was at Canary Wharf a few days back. Very snazzy escalators.
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Extending the Lizzie to Ebbsfleet is a massive rebuild job to create the space when out to Reading and Shenfield was relatively simple, and on line with space and capacity. You would have to rebuild Dartford station in a big way, most of the line between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, the tunnels under the M25 at Dartford, and then the line between Greenhithe and Ebbsfleet isn't easy to build on.randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!0 -
Are services to and from Abbey Wood starting on 24th May?0
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YesSix-a-bag-of-nuts said:Are services to and from Abbey Wood starting on 24th May?2 -
Yes, Phase 1 is Abbey Wood to PaddingtonSix-a-bag-of-nuts said:Are services to and from Abbey Wood starting on 24th May?
Phase 2 out to Heathrow and Reading, and Shenfield, is Autumn 20221 -
Wow. Might have to make a nostalgic return to my old stamping ground which we left 35 years ago for a new life in Dorset.clive said:
YesSix-a-bag-of-nuts said:Are services to and from Abbey Wood starting on 24th May?0 -
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You call us trainspotters!Big_Bad_World said:
All the stations are very impressive. I've been fortunate to visit all the main 5 LU ones and a few RfLI sites a few times during the construction phases.Sark99 said:I will be travelling on Crossrail this afternoon. Hoping to explore the new Canary Wharf station if I get the chance.
Was at Canary Wharf a few days back. Very snazzy escalators.15 -
Some of the journey times if you're travelling from Woolwich (taken from Citymapper):
Canary Wharf (5 minutes)
Liverpool Street (12 minutes)
Paddington (22 minutes)
Heathrow (57 minutes) - For 2nd phase opening later in 2023.
Add a few minutes on top for Abbey Wood.
All direct, without changes.
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The Crossrail lines from Paddington to Reading and Stratford to Shenfield are existing lines which Crossrail took over, so it's not as if brand new lines were built out into the sticks.
The equivalent in SE London would be if Crossrail took over all services east of Abbey Wood, and the Greenwich line trains all terminated there instead.1 -
I've got no interest in the trainsguinnessaddick said:
You call us trainspotters!Big_Bad_World said:
All the stations are very impressive. I've been fortunate to visit all the main 5 LU ones and a few RfLI sites a few times during the construction phases.Sark99 said:I will be travelling on Crossrail this afternoon. Hoping to explore the new Canary Wharf station if I get the chance.
Was at Canary Wharf a few days back. Very snazzy escalators.
I'm all about the station systems and infrastructure. 4 -
You filthy beast BBW.5
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But are they the reasons why it was never planned in? Or are these retrofitted, if legitimate, excuses?Rothko said:
Extending the Lizzie to Ebbsfleet is a massive rebuild job to create the space when out to Reading and Shenfield was relatively simple, and on line with space and capacity. You would have to rebuild Dartford station in a big way, most of the line between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, the tunnels under the M25 at Dartford, and then the line between Greenhithe and Ebbsfleet isn't easy to build on.randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!It’s just that I’m a bit sceptical given the number of times I’ve stood with my coffee upstairs in the Ebbsfleet Eurostar station, pondering the South Eastern suburban trains meandering across HS1 on their little flyover, and asking myself why oh why didn’t they create a station there, which could provide a direct Eurostar connection from all three lines which run to Dartford and on to Gravesend.4 -
Cost at the time probably when the line was given the OK in the late '00s, and then the budget was slashed when the coalition came in.
As much as it would help my house price, you could just fix the service on the North Kent Line and send more trains to Abbey Wood, already the expectation is that 50% of all passengers from Kent will get off at AW and get on Crossrail.0 -
You are correct, it's is ridiculous that there is no way to access Ebbsfleet from any domestic routes travelling away from London. It would have been an easy and cheap option to upgrade Northfleet station and provide a covered walkway across to Ebbsfleet (around 300m as the crow flies, so a perfectly reasonable transfer distance, less than many tube lines)PragueAddick said:
But are they the reasons why it was never planned in? Or are these retrofitted, if legitimate, excuses?Rothko said:
Extending the Lizzie to Ebbsfleet is a massive rebuild job to create the space when out to Reading and Shenfield was relatively simple, and on line with space and capacity. You would have to rebuild Dartford station in a big way, most of the line between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, the tunnels under the M25 at Dartford, and then the line between Greenhithe and Ebbsfleet isn't easy to build on.randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!It’s just that I’m a bit sceptical given the number of times I’ve stood with my coffee upstairs in the Ebbsfleet Eurostar station, pondering the South Eastern suburban trains meandering across HS1 on their little flyover, and asking myself why oh why didn’t they create a station there, which could provide a direct Eurostar connection from all three lines which run to Dartford and on to Gravesend.7 -
oh and the funding of Crossrail, saw Londoners pay 70% of the bill, so why the fuck should Londoners pay for it to go into Kent.5
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a) Because Londoners only paid 70%Rothko said:oh and the funding of Crossrail, saw Londoners pay 70% of the bill, so why the fuck should Londoners pay for it to go into Kent.
b) Because Londoners already paid for it to go into the already much better served Essex and Berkshire. Reading is as far from London (if not further) than Maidstone for fuck sake. Why are Londoners happy to pay for a train to go to Reading, but not the fraction of that distance to Dartford and Ebbsfleet4 -
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vast majority of the spending went on the Core tunnel and the systems under London, the bits to Reading and Shenfield just took advantage of the existing space on the network, and are the relatively cheap bits of Crossrail.randy andy said:
a) Because Londoners only paid 70%Rothko said:oh and the funding of Crossrail, saw Londoners pay 70% of the bill, so why the fuck should Londoners pay for it to go into Kent.
b) Because Londoners already paid for it to go into the already much better served Essex and Berkshire. Reading is as far from London (if not further) than Maidstone for fuck sake. Why are Londoners happy to pay for a train to go to Reading, but not the fraction of that distance to Dartford and Ebbsfleet2 -
You are telling me that Northflleet station is 300metres from Ebbsfleet?randy andy said:
You are correct, it's is ridiculous that there is no way to access Ebbsfleet from any domestic routes travelling away from London. It would have been an easy and cheap option to upgrade Northfleet station and provide a covered walkway across to Ebbsfleet (around 300m as the crow flies, so a perfectly reasonable transfer distance, less than many tube lines)PragueAddick said:
But are they the reasons why it was never planned in? Or are these retrofitted, if legitimate, excuses?Rothko said:
Extending the Lizzie to Ebbsfleet is a massive rebuild job to create the space when out to Reading and Shenfield was relatively simple, and on line with space and capacity. You would have to rebuild Dartford station in a big way, most of the line between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, the tunnels under the M25 at Dartford, and then the line between Greenhithe and Ebbsfleet isn't easy to build on.randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!It’s just that I’m a bit sceptical given the number of times I’ve stood with my coffee upstairs in the Ebbsfleet Eurostar station, pondering the South Eastern suburban trains meandering across HS1 on their little flyover, and asking myself why oh why didn’t they create a station there, which could provide a direct Eurostar connection from all three lines which run to Dartford and on to Gravesend.I never even knew that. I will now go into complete meltdown. Rothko said:
How would it be “fixed” though? Given what you said earlier about Dartford.Cost at the time probably when the line was given the OK in the late '00s, and then the budget was slashed when the coalition came in.
As much as it would help my house price, you could just fix the service on the North Kent Line and send more trains to Abbey Wood, already the expectation is that 50% of all passengers from Kent will get off at AW and get on Crossrail.I noticed when I was last over that some trains on the B’heath line are now advertised as running back down the Woolwich line. Which made me think , OK i could take such a train from Eltham to Abbey Wood and pick up Crossrail. But that would need to be both faster and more frequent to make it viable for most people.0 -
The approach to Dartford is a mess, because the station is so small, and I think the ambition would be to rebuild it further down the line with 2 more platforms and create more routes.
Also Crossrail to Ebbsfleet I think would save the average commuter about 2 minutes in time changing platforms at Abbey Wood. Think you'll end up seeing a big investment in the bus infrastructure to boost stuff like Fastrack instead of £3 to 5bn on a Crossrail extension unless Kent Council finds the money.1 -
As the crow flies. The shortest current walking distance is around 950m, hence the requirement for a walkway linking the two.PragueAddick said:
You are telling me that Northflleet station is 300metres from Ebbsfleet?randy andy said:
You are correct, it's is ridiculous that there is no way to access Ebbsfleet from any domestic routes travelling away from London. It would have been an easy and cheap option to upgrade Northfleet station and provide a covered walkway across to Ebbsfleet (around 300m as the crow flies, so a perfectly reasonable transfer distance, less than many tube lines)PragueAddick said:
But are they the reasons why it was never planned in? Or are these retrofitted, if legitimate, excuses?Rothko said:
Extending the Lizzie to Ebbsfleet is a massive rebuild job to create the space when out to Reading and Shenfield was relatively simple, and on line with space and capacity. You would have to rebuild Dartford station in a big way, most of the line between Abbey Wood and Slade Green, the tunnels under the M25 at Dartford, and then the line between Greenhithe and Ebbsfleet isn't easy to build on.randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!It’s just that I’m a bit sceptical given the number of times I’ve stood with my coffee upstairs in the Ebbsfleet Eurostar station, pondering the South Eastern suburban trains meandering across HS1 on their little flyover, and asking myself why oh why didn’t they create a station there, which could provide a direct Eurostar connection from all three lines which run to Dartford and on to Gravesend.I never even knew that. I will now go into complete meltdown. Rothko said:
How would it be “fixed” though? Given what you said earlier about Dartford.Cost at the time probably when the line was given the OK in the late '00s, and then the budget was slashed when the coalition came in.
As much as it would help my house price, you could just fix the service on the North Kent Line and send more trains to Abbey Wood, already the expectation is that 50% of all passengers from Kent will get off at AW and get on Crossrail.I noticed when I was last over that some trains on the B’heath line are now advertised as running back down the Woolwich line. Which made me think , OK i could take such a train from Eltham to Abbey Wood and pick up Crossrail. But that would need to be both faster and more frequent to make it viable for most people.1 -
Ignore the 16 min walk label (I'm guessing that's if you want to take a really roundabout walk around downtown Ebbsfleet), but you can see the direct route which would involve an elevated walk way over the freight line and road (plus Northfleet station is already higher up than Ebbsfleet, which is in an old quarry). So 264m vs 965m (0.6 miles), which would be a tiny fraction of the cost of linking the domestic platforms at Ebbsfleet up to the London side of Ebbsfleet.
The added bonus of the walkway would also be that you could change trains without having to be exposed to any of Northfleet, definitely a bonus.4 -
Great news quick zip from Reading and one stop away from the radical club.0
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They started a new bus route (301) to link up Abbey Wood station from Bexleyheath, but I don't think there is any direct route from Bexley.
My son lives in Bexley and works in Paddington but says it's not worth the faffing about to get to Abbey Wood. I wonder if there is an opening there for an enterprising person?0 -
Is Stratford on both?randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!0 -
Yep, hardly close to each otherFriend Or Defoe said:
Is Stratford on both?randy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!0 -
I remember reading that line was originally going as far as dartford but finances stopped itrandy andy said:
Yet there is no connection between the two. There are already calls for the Elizabeth line to be extended an extra two stops, namely Dartford and Ebbsfleet. It almost incomprehensible that that wasn't in the original plans.Crusty54 said:
HS1 runs into quite a lot of Kent.golfaddick said:I see the new line runs from Reading (BERKSHIRE) in the West to Shenfield (not far from Brentwood in ESSEX) in the East. However, in the good old South East in runs as far as Abbey Wood. And thats it. Still no tube lines in Kent, or even in the London Boroughs that were once in Kent (like Bexley or Bromley).
Us poor old South Eastians or dare I even say the word, Kentish folk, get shafted once again. I dare anyone to look up the tube map based on proper geography & see how far it stretches South Eastwards compared to North, East & Westwards.
Argh !!!!!0
