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The Ashes 2015

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  • The way to sort out fear of the short ball is easy.

    in Billy's Boots comic strip in Tiger, Billy Dane was a footballer who inherited a pair of Dead Shot Keens football boots and chanelled his spirit to be a great footballer at school.

    In the off season he played cricket and in one story that I remember, he was hit with a bouncer and lost all confidence.
    However there was a visiting American student over for the summer, and he got him to throw baseball pitches at his head, to get Billy back in the groove against head high bowling attacks.

    Trevor Bayliss- you can thank me later.
  • not sure Botham had his eyes on the ball when he hooked bouncers in the 80's !!
  • MrOneLung said:

    not sure Botham had his eyes on the ball when he hooked bouncers in the 80's !!

    That's usually because he waited 'til the ball was on the end of his nose before turning his head!
  • With a bog standard bowling machine, you know it's going to bowl short because it's on a setting and you start moving before it's fired at you. In real life, you will probably get a bouncer but you are just as likely to get a yorker so your movement is slightly delayed. Maybe England have a bowling machine that's on a random setting? Quite probably but obviously it's not quite the same as facing a real bowler.

    Dave Smith (ex-Surrey, England and nutter) told me that before his tour to the West Indies, Willis coached them and got them facing quicks on bare concrete net pitches from 18 yards. Smith was 100% fearless but I should imagine some of the others wouldn't have liked it. Good prep though.

    But really I can only go from my own experience. As an opening bat, I'd faced plenty of County and club quicks before but when I came up against Reon King with a new ball, it cut the reaction time to a whole new level (if that makes sense?) Shots were out of the question for me and I knew I had to play in very straight lines. When he pitched it up I could see it but when he dropped it short I saw it only at the last nano-second if at all. I decided that I would move across the crease as he was about to let go (I didn't want to be bowled) but in effect all I did was line myself up against his face-high short ball (I'm 6ft 3"). The eventual result was a ballooned glove to the slips, a long trudge back to the pavilion and a numb top hand/forearm! I came to the conclusion that the only preparation for playing the likes of him, was to PLAY against the likes of him.
  • Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    One of the Overtons ?
  • Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
  • The observations about the technical and form failings of most of the top order are hard to argue but the tone for yesterday's spineless capitulation is set by the captain. Cook "doesn't like to face the first ball in an innings" (from the horse's mouth) so he abrogates the responsibility, pussies out and dumps it on the other opener, whoever he may be. Yesterday he also wafted inanely at a nothing delivery, a shot from which the only outcome is dismissal. If the captain doesn't have the spine to take the responsibility we can't expect the rest of them to stand up behind such a p!ss poor example. His post match interviews defy satire, demeaning him and his position. The side (it can't be called a 'team') went thru the motions awaiting inevitable defeat from the start of Australia's 2nd innings and should be docked at least 3 days pay as a result. We can only hope that a couple of the side's spikier characters dish out several ferocious b0ll0ckings and that individuals' pride engenders an altogether more worthy performance in Birmingham. My money is firmly on 3 or 4 - 1 to Aus as only the English weather offers them any resistance.
  • Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
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  • James Taylor 275 not out currently.
  • James Taylor 275 not out currently.

    and Hales made 3 .. Taylor will probably be added to the 'squad' for Birmingham ... but I reckon all six 'batsmen' from Lords will be re-selected .. seemingly the only way to get dropped from the English XI batting monopoly is to literally drop .. dead
  • Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
    "Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted out tomorrow".

    The likes of Kent, with 39 year old Darren Stevens opening the bowling and Essex, with David Masters doing the same job, aren't going to prepare fast tracks to suit the opposition's 90 mph bullet train - unless a directive comes out that they have to do so.



  • James Taylor 275 not out currently.

    I saw James Taylor get the first half of his big score yesterday at Horsham. On a friendly track, he made it look easy. As England only play on friendly tracks like Cardiff and Lords, he should have no problems.
  • James Taylor 275 not out currently.

    I saw James Taylor get the first half of his big score yesterday at Horsham. On a friendly track, he made it look easy. As England only play on friendly tracks like Cardiff and Lords, he should have no problems.
    What was the bowling like?

    Don't imagine it was three top-class quicks (two of them lefties) ranging from 85-90mph?
  • James Taylor 275 not out currently.

    Out for 291
  • I have got the feeling that there will be no changes. Once you are in the England team it is difficult to get out.
  • edited July 2015

    James Taylor 275 not out currently.

    I saw James Taylor get the first half of his big score yesterday at Horsham. On a friendly track, he made it look easy. As England only play on friendly tracks like Cardiff and Lords, he should have no problems.
    What was the bowling like?

    Don't imagine it was three top-class quicks (two of them lefties) ranging from 85-90mph?
    My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. To be fair, he scored it against Magoffin, who is one of the top wicket takers on the county scene (of course, he is Australian too), but, yes, it was a tame attack otherwise and on a benign pitch. All I can say is that he looked comfortable. The likes of Messrs Starc and Johnson hurtling in are a different kettle of fish, but I've always thought he stands his ground well and, at least, he is in form. It's tough for an out of form test player these days, tests are back to back so they don't get any easy runs to get 'practice time' at the crease. We could do worse than pick Taylor IMHO.
  • dickplumb said:

    I have got the feeling that there will be no changes. Once you are in the England team it is difficult to get out.

    By 'difficult to get out', I assume you mean.....
  • dickplumb said:

    I have got the feeling that there will be no changes. Once you are in the England team it is difficult to get out.

    I think our batsman did a pretty good job of it in the 2nd test!
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  • dickplumb said:

    I have got the feeling that there will be no changes. Once you are in the England team it is difficult to get out.

    Nick Compton might argue otherwise.

    I, for one, thought I understood why he was dropped but, two hundreds in the first two Tests against NZ (on their home ground with Southee and Boult in their attack) was followed by three Tests of low scores and that was that for him.
  • MrOneLung said:

    Draw written all over this one. Flat as a pancake this pitch.

    i'll keep an eye on this post for day 4/5 !!
    Do the Aussies have the bowlers to take 20 wickets? I don't think they do tbh.
    Possibly, but England have the batsmen who can lose 20 wickets !!!

    It's a gift/curse - delete as appropriate.

  • The Australian selectors have shown the merits of responding ruthlessly to an embarrassing defeat. England need to shock the complacency out of the side by dropping a big name. They'll probably bottle it by only axing Lyth but he's played no worse than Ballance or Bell.
  • edited July 2015

    Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
    "Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted out tomorrow".

    The likes of Kent, with 39 year old Darren Stevens opening the bowling and Essex, with David Masters doing the same job, aren't going to prepare fast tracks to suit the opposition's 90 mph bullet train - unless a directive comes out that they have to do so.


    I think there's some merit in both comments, in as much as if Johnson is bowling at 95, and bowling full or Bouncers, then a slow pitch isn't going to negate him much, however, its because all the counties create wickets for dobbas like Stevens and Masters then we aint gonna see any progression.Why bowl quick when you can get more wickets by bowling little dibbly/dobbas . One of the reasons that Oz have so many quicks is because they create fast bouncy wickets that are generally only rewarded if you bowl VERY quick.Dobbas get eff all wickets in Oz.The only recent exception for that was Mcgrath - but he had so many other exceptional talents to compensate.
  • edited July 2015

    James Taylor 275 not out currently.

    I saw James Taylor get the first half of his big score yesterday at Horsham. On a friendly track, he made it look easy. As England only play on friendly tracks like Cardiff and Lords, he should have no problems.
    What was the bowling like?

    Don't imagine it was three top-class quicks (two of them lefties) ranging from 85-90mph?
    My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. To be fair, he scored it against Magoffin, who is one of the top wicket takers on the county scene (of course, he is Australian too), but, yes, it was a tame attack otherwise and on a benign pitch. All I can say is that he looked comfortable. The likes of Messrs Starc and Johnson hurtling in are a different kettle of fish, but I've always thought he stands his ground well and, at least, he is in form. It's tough for an out of form test player these days, tests are back to back so they don't get any easy runs to get 'practice time' at the crease. We could do worse than pick Taylor IMHO.
    Well, 291 in any game takes a heck of a lot of concentration, which , tbh, this 'side' clearly lacks somewhat.
    To me, Lyth has gone beyond his level - needs ditching. Ballance needs rest and recuperation - as he seems mentally scarred.(yes, I know!)
    Maybe Taylor and Cook up front - at least they can get a left/right combo going, and maybe Bairstow instead of Balance with Root pushing up to 3.
  • edited July 2015

    Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
    "Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted out tomorrow".

    The likes of Kent, with 39 year old Darren Stevens opening the bowling and Essex, with David Masters doing the same job, aren't going to prepare fast tracks to suit the opposition's 90 mph bullet train - unless a directive comes out that they have to do so.



    You're talking about county cricket which has nothing to do with Test cricket anymore.
  • Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
    "Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted out tomorrow".

    The likes of Kent, with 39 year old Darren Stevens opening the bowling and Essex, with David Masters doing the same job, aren't going to prepare fast tracks to suit the opposition's 90 mph bullet train - unless a directive comes out that they have to do so.



    You're talking about county cricket which has nothing to do with Test cricket anymore.
    But it is county cricket that produces England cricketers. They don't grow on trees you know.
  • Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
    "Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted out tomorrow".

    The likes of Kent, with 39 year old Darren Stevens opening the bowling and Essex, with David Masters doing the same job, aren't going to prepare fast tracks to suit the opposition's 90 mph bullet train - unless a directive comes out that they have to do so.



    You're talking about county cricket which has nothing to do with Test cricket anymore.
    But it is county cricket that produces England cricketers. They don't grow on trees you know.
    the issue you're talking about has been a problem for england for generations. Thankfully the selectors have realised that only genuinely fast bowlers and a world class swing bowler can take wickets at test level. I think there are more genuinely fast bowlers now than there were 15-20 years ago.

    There'll always be a place for trundlers in county cricket, just like there will always be room for those batsman averaging in their 30s.
  • Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    Riviera said:

    It would be nice if we actually had our own fast bowlers. By fast I mean consistently bowling 90mph+. It is a fact acknowledged by the pros that the extra 5mph or so over at 88mph is a massive difference.
    But what do we do with any kid who has the build and ability to bowl fast and hostile? We muck about with his action to make him into yet another line and length 80mph bowler. We did it with Finn and Tremlett and others. Remember Harmison's aggression to Langer and Ponting in 2005? A young raw fast bowler can be expensive for sure but wouldn't be great to have one, to at least shake up the opposition?

    We have to have the pitches too. Because otherwise the line and length merchants remain king. Fast bouncy tracks would also help spinners too.
    Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted tomorrow. It doesn't matter how slow a pitch is, it's speed through the air that matters. Holding at the Oval in 76 and Johnson at Lords 2015 prove that.
    "Pitches are not an issue. Can be sorted out tomorrow".

    The likes of Kent, with 39 year old Darren Stevens opening the bowling and Essex, with David Masters doing the same job, aren't going to prepare fast tracks to suit the opposition's 90 mph bullet train - unless a directive comes out that they have to do so.



    You're talking about county cricket which has nothing to do with Test cricket anymore.
    But it is county cricket that produces England cricketers. They don't grow on trees you know.
    No they grow in south Africa, Australia, new Zealand etc...
  • edited July 2015
    Or we over bowl them... take matt Dunn of Surrey, last season he wasnt in the team every game but when he played he consistently bowled over 90 mph... This year because of injuries he has become first choice quick! With the number of overs he has bowled and the intensity of the county schedule he now can't hit those speeds consistently!

    The same happened with Meaker who is half the bowler he used to be! Not the same man who was once clocked at 96 mph!
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