Made some big mistakes last season. I think she got a bit caught up in our good start then didn’t handle the downturn well at all? But it is clear that she does what she is told and she might have been stitched up a bit by Roland. But he was probably testing her a bit. I would advise her not to be too smug when things are going well or too defensive when they are not. Always think how what you say is going to be received and understand what motivates Charlton fans as it is different to Belgian fans.
Judging from how the SL fans reacted last summer, I'd imagine dealing with Belgian fans would be harder!
Katrien's mistakes were probably more down to inexperience of football, she's young and not from a football background. She's intelligent though, and the sort to learn quickly I'd imagine!
Would you say that if we had a male chief exec? How many chief executives are from football backgrounds?
Made some big mistakes last season. I think she got a bit caught up in our good start then didn’t handle the downturn well at all? But it is clear that she does what she is told and she might have been stitched up a bit by Roland. But he was probably testing her a bit. I would advise her not to be too smug when things are going well or too defensive when they are not. Always think how what you say is going to be received and understand what motivates Charlton fans as it is different to Belgian fans.
Judging from how the SL fans reacted last summer, I'd imagine dealing with Belgian fans would be harder!
Katrien's mistakes were probably more down to inexperience of football, she's young and not from a football background. She's intelligent though, and the sort to learn quickly I'd imagine!
Would you say that if we had a male chief exec? How many chief executives are from football backgrounds?
Yup he would have said something different. Maybe something like....
"he's young and not from a football background. He's intelligent though, and the sort to learn quickly I'd imagine!"
Made some big mistakes last season. I think she got a bit caught up in our good start then didn’t handle the downturn well at all? But it is clear that she does what she is told and she might have been stitched up a bit by Roland. But he was probably testing her a bit. I would advise her not to be too smug when things are going well or too defensive when they are not. Always think how what you say is going to be received and understand what motivates Charlton fans as it is different to Belgian fans.
Judging from how the SL fans reacted last summer, I'd imagine dealing with Belgian fans would be harder!
Katrien's mistakes were probably more down to inexperience of football, she's young and not from a football background. She's intelligent though, and the sort to learn quickly I'd imagine!
Would you say that if we had a male chief exec? How many chief executives are from football backgrounds?
Good Luck Steve, took a lot of stick mainly from people who had no idea and never bothered to find out what his job was.
Was he blameless? No, but the slide at Charlton started long before he became CEO.
Now, can we start slagging of Steve Kavanagh. I don't know what he does, I've seen him smile once and heard he wasn't born in Floyd Rd so it all must be his fault. And yes, that was sarcasm in case you didn't get it.
Good Luck Steve, took a lot of stick mainly from people who had no idea and never bothered to find out what his job was.
Was he blameless? No, but the slide at Charlton started long before he became CEO.
Now, can we start slagging of Steve Kavanagh. I don't know what he does, I've seen him smile once and heard he wasn't born in Floyd Rd so it all must be his fault. And yes, that was sarcasm in case you didn't get it.
Thanks, stick by all of that but 2010 - six years ago! bloody hell.
Made some big mistakes last season. I think she got a bit caught up in our good start then didn’t handle the downturn well at all? But it is clear that she does what she is told and she might have been stitched up a bit by Roland. But he was probably testing her a bit. I would advise her not to be too smug when things are going well or too defensive when they are not. Always think how what you say is going to be received and understand what motivates Charlton fans as it is different to Belgian fans.
Judging from how the SL fans reacted last summer, I'd imagine dealing with Belgian fans would be harder!
Katrien's mistakes were probably more down to inexperience of football, she's young and not from a football background. She's intelligent though, and the sort to learn quickly I'd imagine!
Would you say that if we had a male chief exec? How many chief executives are from football backgrounds?
Yes
Most football chief execs do have some sort of knowledge of the industry, whether from being associates of other bits of the club (Varney, Waggott) or from companies that deal with football (e.g. kit manufacturers, financial advisers, accountants, TV companies etc).
And if we are digging up old remarks about CEO how was it you welcomed Kav "For a Managing Director he's a good Finance Director" : - )
Evidence? From memory that sounds more like the contemporary (2009?) view of someone else at the club also well known to you, rather than me.
The point about Waggott - or "that bloke who went to Coventry", as he has recently been described to me by one current director - is that you had defended him consistently, but were completely wrong. A lot of other people fell into the same trap, including some directors. The criticism was well founded, as it should have been, because ultimately it came from the people who worked at the club alongside him and knew the score and that SK was doing his job.
Meire gets a much better press from most of her colleagues, so being on the outside we must take account of that. However, your point about the handling of the sex video - based on her own account at Bromley - is quite telling. The issue is not, in my view, that she is inexperienced specifically in football, it's that she is inexperienced as a senior manager per se. In fact, I'd suggest she gets cut a lot more slack by fans as a woman than a man would, which I reckon RD counts on.
No, it was definitely you who said it perhaps even on here. Are you denying it?
And I said in 2010, as quoted by you, that SW was not blameless but attacks such as he smiles too much and was once a journalist writing about Millwall were personal and pathetic (Seth plum those)
And the decline DID start long before he joined CAFC. That is clear to see. But just as Peter Varney (the best CEO at the club in my limited experience) was not responsible for everything that went wrong while he was CEO neither was Wagott.
I agree that KM is very inexperienced as a manager but that is not the same as "incompetent" as you labelled her. I can find the quote if you've mis-remembered that too.
But in my view it is the lack of an experienced management team around KM that compounds that problem. That is largely due to the previous regime although too little has been done since RD took over to counter-balance that.
No, it was definitely you who said it perhaps even on here. Are you denying it?
And I said in 2010, as quoted by you, that SW was not blameless but attacks such as he smiles too much and was once a journalist writing about Millwall were personal and pathetic (Seth plum those)
And the decline DID start long before he joined CAFC. That is clear to see. But just as Peter Varney (the best CEO at the club in my limited experience) was not responsible for everything that went wrong while he was CEO neither was Wagott.
I agree that KM is very inexperienced as a manager but that is not the same as "incompetent" as you labelled her. I can find the quote if you've mis-remembered that too.
But in my view it is the lack of an experienced management team around KM that compounds that problem. That is largely due to the previous regime although too little has been done since RD took over to counter-balance that.
Back in 2009 it was someone else's mantra, not mine. Did I ever repeat it? Can't honestly say either way at this point, but it is true that Steve K saw things from a financial perspective first, which is unsurprising given his professional background, so it's very possible at that time.
Nobody has ever suggested that SW caused the club's decline or was a major factor in it. As far as I was concerned, he was an empty chair. One former director joked that he assumed SW's role on the Target 40k committee was to bring the sandwiches.
The fact is SW's background was in teaching and doing the Millwall match reports in the Mercury as a sideline. [Edit: I should probably add that he did have a football background, just not a business/commercial one that equipped him to lead CAFC].
He was a very poor choice as chief executive, made by Derek Chappell and Bob Whitehand (and based on his tenure at the trust, but ask Jason Morgan and others about that), but he was and no doubt is good at selling himself, which he did to you among others. Even people who saw through this didn't dislike him.
I do question KM's competence as chief executive, based on issues like the handling of the video, the programme sellers, her refusal to engage with a wide variety of people who might assist her, Crossbars last season, continuing staff turnover, the handling of Peeters/Luzon, and some bad internal appointments, but I also recognise that she is short of experience and support, has to deal with an overbearing owner and that she is personable.
It can rightly be argued that some good things have happened under the Belgians, specifically projects at The Valley, but when it comes to processes and people there have been a lot of false steps.
The more I think about it the more I feel we've done some great business in selling Gomez. Of course ideally we want to keep a hold of our best players, especially when they're home-grown but we've supposedly got around £10m for a lad that's just turned 18 and we're in no position to turn down that type of money for a young player when we're finishing mid table in the second tier of English football. Let's be realistic. Duchatelet apparently selling Liege is huge for us as well, perhaps this means even more money is going to be invested in to the squad... strangely enough, after everything that has gone on I am starting to trust both RD and KM - not sure what Bauer is like as a player but he certainly looks the real deal for the Championship. A few more faces are expected to be seen at the Valley this Summer so let's just see what happens instead of taking the negatives out of everything.
The more I think about it the more I feel we've done some great business in selling Gomez. Of course ideally we want to keep a hold of our best players, especially when they're home-grown but we've supposedly got around £10m for a lad that's just turned 18 and we're in no position to turn down that type of money for a young player when we're finishing mid table in the second tier of English football. Let's be realistic. Duchatelet apparently selling Liege is huge for us as well, perhaps this means even more money is going to be invested in to the squad... strangely enough, after everything that has gone on I am starting to trust both RD and KM - not sure what Bauer is like as a player but he certainly looks the real deal for the Championship. A few more faces are expected to be seen at the Valley this Summer so let's just see what happens instead of taking the negatives out of everything.
Was thinking similar this morning after hearing the liege news! The announcement after Gomez and then the 'we will be expecting more signings' after the Bauer deal all came in hindsight that miere knew that Kroger would be sold! Maybe we let Gomez go for a little cheaper as we knew we had potentially £20m from the liege deal instead of fussing about a few hundred grand with of add ons!
Got a bloody good feeling about this season coming!
No, it was definitely you who said it perhaps even on here. Are you denying it?
And I said in 2010, as quoted by you, that SW was not blameless but attacks such as he smiles too much and was once a journalist writing about Millwall were personal and pathetic (Seth plum those)
And the decline DID start long before he joined CAFC. That is clear to see. But just as Peter Varney (the best CEO at the club in my limited experience) was not responsible for everything that went wrong while he was CEO neither was Wagott.
I agree that KM is very inexperienced as a manager but that is not the same as "incompetent" as you labelled her. I can find the quote if you've mis-remembered that too.
But in my view it is the lack of an experienced management team around KM that compounds that problem. That is largely due to the previous regime although too little has been done since RD took over to counter-balance that.
Back in 2009 it was someone else's mantra, not mine. Did I ever repeat it? Can't honestly say either way at this point, but it is true that Steve K saw things from a financial perspective first, which is unsurprising given his professional background, so it's very possible at that time.
Nobody has ever suggested that SW caused the club's decline or was a major factor in it. As far as I was concerned, he was an empty chair. One former director joked that he assumed SW's role on the Target 40k committee was to bring the sandwiches.
The fact is SW's background was in teaching and doing the Millwall match reports in the Mercury as a sideline.
He was a very poor choice as chief executive, made by Derek Chappell and Bob Whitehand (and based on his tenure at the trust, but ask Jason Morgan and others about that), but he was and no doubt is good at selling himself, which he did to you among others. Even people who saw through this didn't dislike him.
not quite sure though why you have brought all this up?
Someone asked if CEO often had a background in football and I replied "Steve Wagott" which he did as he was a former youth player at Newcastle and Hull, had been an agent and a football journalist (albeit part time). I didn't say he was God's gift but I stand by what I said that he was not the sole reason things went wrong.
No, it was definitely you who said it perhaps even on here. Are you denying it?
And I said in 2010, as quoted by you, that SW was not blameless but attacks such as he smiles too much and was once a journalist writing about Millwall were personal and pathetic (Seth plum those)
And the decline DID start long before he joined CAFC. That is clear to see. But just as Peter Varney (the best CEO at the club in my limited experience) was not responsible for everything that went wrong while he was CEO neither was Wagott.
I agree that KM is very inexperienced as a manager but that is not the same as "incompetent" as you labelled her. I can find the quote if you've mis-remembered that too.
But in my view it is the lack of an experienced management team around KM that compounds that problem. That is largely due to the previous regime although too little has been done since RD took over to counter-balance that.
I do question KM's competence as chief executive, because on issues like the handling of the video, the programme sellers, her refusal to engage with a wide variety of people who might assist her, Crossbars last season, continuing staff turnover, the handling of Peeters/Luzon, and some bad internal appointments, but I also recognise that she is short of experience and support, has to deal with an overbearing owner and that she is personable.
It can rightly be argued that some good things have happened under the Belgians, specifically projects at The Valley, but when it comes to processes and people there have been a lot of false steps.
Don't disagree on any of those issues. Many of those errors were due to her inexperience AND the poor advice of other managers (not our mutual friend who you referred to early) such as BK and SB. She has responsibility for that and so has to take the criticism.
I am and never have never been an apologist for her or the regime but nor do I like the personal character assignations that happened with Wagott and are in danger of happening with KM.
One because I don't think it is true that "she is incompetent" (and that IS the term you used) and two because it is much more likely to drive her away from listening to experienced voices, including your own and those of other fans.
And finally, the line about "as an MD he is a good finance director" may have been first used elsewhere but you certainly used it and was where I first read it. I remember discussing it with Kav at the time.
The more I think about it the more I feel we've done some great business in selling Gomez. Of course ideally we want to keep a hold of our best players, especially when they're home-grown but we've supposedly got around £10m for a lad that's just turned 18 and we're in no position to turn down that type of money for a young player when we're finishing mid table in the second tier of English football. Let's be realistic. Duchatelet apparently selling Liege is huge for us as well, perhaps this means even more money is going to be invested in to the squad... strangely enough, after everything that has gone on I am starting to trust both RD and KM - not sure what Bauer is like as a player but he certainly looks the real deal for the Championship. A few more faces are expected to be seen at the Valley this Summer so let's just see what happens instead of taking the negatives out of everything.
The more I think about it the more I feel we've done some great business in selling Gomez. Of course ideally we want to keep a hold of our best players, especially when they're home-grown but we've supposedly got around £10m for a lad that's just turned 18 and we're in no position to turn down that type of money for a young player when we're finishing mid table in the second tier of English football. Let's be realistic. Duchatelet apparently selling Liege is huge for us as well, perhaps this means even more money is going to be invested in to the squad... strangely enough, after everything that has gone on I am starting to trust both RD and KM - not sure what Bauer is like as a player but he certainly looks the real deal for the Championship. A few more faces are expected to be seen at the Valley this Summer so let's just see what happens instead of taking the negatives out of everything.
Such a positive and refreshing post from a new poster. Give it a summer on here and you'll be full of anger and hate in no time
not quite sure though why you have brought all this up?
Someone asked if CEO often had a background in football and I replied "Steve Wagott" which he did as he was a former youth player at Newcastle and Hull, had been an agent and a football journalist (albeit part time). I didn't say he was God's gift but I stand by what I said that he was not the sole reason things went wrong.
I was responding to the idea that KM was getting criticised because she is a woman, whereas you rightly make the point (in 2010) that Waggott was getting plenty of stick. I think your defence of him was ill-judged and personal, but the point is KM is not being singled out because of her gender. Far from it.
Let's say Ben Kensell had been appointed as chief operating officer in 2013, which was Martin Prothero's original plan, and had presided over the same events. He'd have rightly been criticised here, indeed was in his role as chief commercial officer.
The "sole reason things went wrong" is a bogus argument because nobody has ever claimed that against SW. You keep trotting that out, but it was never the issue.
As for "driving away KM from listening", she's made very clear over 18 months that she wants no direct interaction even with respected people who have worked as volunteers for the club for 20 years, so that's a bit rich.
It's her choice if she feels that she has nothing to learn, but it's part of the reason the regime and its motives are regarded by some of those people with suspicion. If she had been seen to engage with some or all of them then it might help underpin more confidence among the wider support.
I think her reluctance to listen to others in partly because of the often aggressive way advice has been offered and partly because of a very typical insecurity of a new manager in feeling that she has to be seen as able to do the job. It's called "imposter syndrome" if you want the management jargon.
I think some people give her too much stick because she is a women and other give her too much slack. Most do neither.
Ben Kensell deserved his criticism for what he said and did but not for smiling or being a Chelsea fan but that was the level the criticism sunk to on here and which you did nothing to counter.
I think her reluctance to listen to others in partly because of the often aggressive way advice has been offered and partly because of a very typical insecurity of a new manager in feeling that she has to be seen as able to do the job. It's called "imposter syndrome" if you want the management jargon.
I think some people give her too much stick because she is a women and other give her too much slack. Most do neither.
Ben Kensell deserved his criticism for what he said and did but not for smiling or being a Chelsea fan but that was the level the criticism sunk to on here and which you did nothing to counter.
You might say that, but you need to consider some of the people involved, who have made no public criticism of KM or even RD / the club and none to her at all, yet cannot be allowed in the same room even when she needs information from them and is the one actively seeking it. It's comical.
Separately, are we supposed to believe she is intimidated by the likes of Sue Townsend, who has put years of work into promoting the club in Maidstone?
I wasn't aware that I had any responsibility for countering third-party criticism of people I've never met. I take responsibility for my own actions, not other people's. I seem to remember a lot of the criticism of BK came out of a meeting at Bromley that you reported on here. Perhaps it was your fault?!
The more I think about it the more I feel we've done some great business in selling Gomez. Of course ideally we want to keep a hold of our best players, especially when they're home-grown but we've supposedly got around £10m for a lad that's just turned 18 and we're in no position to turn down that type of money for a young player when we're finishing mid table in the second tier of English football. Let's be realistic. Duchatelet apparently selling Liege is huge for us as well, perhaps this means even more money is going to be invested in to the squad... strangely enough, after everything that has gone on I am starting to trust both RD and KM - not sure what Bauer is like as a player but he certainly looks the real deal for the Championship. A few more faces are expected to be seen at the Valley this Summer so let's just see what happens instead of taking the negatives out of everything.
Comments
"he's young and not from a football background. He's intelligent though, and the sort to learn quickly I'd imagine!"
Most football chief execs do have some sort of knowledge of the industry, whether from being associates of other bits of the club (Varney, Waggott) or from companies that deal with football (e.g. kit manufacturers, financial advisers, accountants, TV companies etc).
The point about Waggott - or "that bloke who went to Coventry", as he has recently been described to me by one current director - is that you had defended him consistently, but were completely wrong. A lot of other people fell into the same trap, including some directors. The criticism was well founded, as it should have been, because ultimately it came from the people who worked at the club alongside him and knew the score and that SK was doing his job.
Meire gets a much better press from most of her colleagues, so being on the outside we must take account of that. However, your point about the handling of the sex video - based on her own account at Bromley - is quite telling. The issue is not, in my view, that she is inexperienced specifically in football, it's that she is inexperienced as a senior manager per se. In fact, I'd suggest she gets cut a lot more slack by fans as a woman than a man would, which I reckon RD counts on.
And I said in 2010, as quoted by you, that SW was not blameless but attacks such as he smiles too much and was once a journalist writing about Millwall were personal and pathetic (Seth plum those)
And the decline DID start long before he joined CAFC. That is clear to see. But just as Peter Varney (the best CEO at the club in my limited experience) was not responsible for everything that went wrong while he was CEO neither was Wagott.
I agree that KM is very inexperienced as a manager but that is not the same as "incompetent" as you labelled her. I can find the quote if you've mis-remembered that too.
But in my view it is the lack of an experienced management team around KM that compounds that problem. That is largely due to the previous regime although too little has been done since RD took over to counter-balance that.
Nobody has ever suggested that SW caused the club's decline or was a major factor in it. As far as I was concerned, he was an empty chair. One former director joked that he assumed SW's role on the Target 40k committee was to bring the sandwiches.
The fact is SW's background was in teaching and doing the Millwall match reports in the Mercury as a sideline. [Edit: I should probably add that he did have a football background, just not a business/commercial one that equipped him to lead CAFC].
He was a very poor choice as chief executive, made by Derek Chappell and Bob Whitehand (and based on his tenure at the trust, but ask Jason Morgan and others about that), but he was and no doubt is good at selling himself, which he did to you among others. Even people who saw through this didn't dislike him.
I do question KM's competence as chief executive, based on issues like the handling of the video, the programme sellers, her refusal to engage with a wide variety of people who might assist her, Crossbars last season, continuing staff turnover, the handling of Peeters/Luzon, and some bad internal appointments, but I also recognise that she is short of experience and support, has to deal with an overbearing owner and that she is personable.
It can rightly be argued that some good things have happened under the Belgians, specifically projects at The Valley, but when it comes to processes and people there have been a lot of false steps.
Duchatelet apparently selling Liege is huge for us as well, perhaps this means even more money is going to be invested in to the squad... strangely enough, after everything that has gone on I am starting to trust both RD and KM - not sure what Bauer is like as a player but he certainly looks the real deal for the Championship. A few more faces are expected to be seen at the Valley this Summer so let's just see what happens instead of taking the negatives out of everything.
Was thinking similar this morning after hearing the liege news!
The announcement after Gomez and then the 'we will be expecting more signings' after the Bauer deal all came in hindsight that miere knew that Kroger would be sold!
Maybe we let Gomez go for a little cheaper as we knew we had potentially £20m from the liege deal instead of fussing about a few hundred grand with of add ons!
Got a bloody good feeling about this season coming!
Someone asked if CEO often had a background in football and I replied "Steve Wagott" which he did as he was a former youth player at Newcastle and Hull, had been an agent and a football journalist (albeit part time). I didn't say he was God's gift but I stand by what I said that he was not the sole reason things went wrong.
Don't disagree on any of those issues. Many of those errors were due to her inexperience AND the poor advice of other managers (not our mutual friend who you referred to early) such as BK and SB. She has responsibility for that and so has to take the criticism.
I am and never have never been an apologist for her or the regime but nor do I like the personal character assignations that happened with Wagott and are in danger of happening with KM.
One because I don't think it is true that "she is incompetent" (and that IS the term you used) and two because it is much more likely to drive her away from listening to experienced voices, including your own and those of other fans.
And finally, the line about "as an MD he is a good finance director" may have been first used elsewhere but you certainly used it and was where I first read it. I remember discussing it with Kav at the time.
Such a positive and refreshing post from a new poster.
Give it a summer on here and you'll be full of anger and hate in no time
Just messing, welcome friend.
Let's say Ben Kensell had been appointed as chief operating officer in 2013, which was Martin Prothero's original plan, and had presided over the same events. He'd have rightly been criticised here, indeed was in his role as chief commercial officer.
The "sole reason things went wrong" is a bogus argument because nobody has ever claimed that against SW. You keep trotting that out, but it was never the issue.
As for "driving away KM from listening", she's made very clear over 18 months that she wants no direct interaction even with respected people who have worked as volunteers for the club for 20 years, so that's a bit rich.
It's her choice if she feels that she has nothing to learn, but it's part of the reason the regime and its motives are regarded by some of those people with suspicion. If she had been seen to engage with some or all of them then it might help underpin more confidence among the wider support.
I think some people give her too much stick because she is a women and other give her too much slack. Most do neither.
Ben Kensell deserved his criticism for what he said and did but not for smiling or being a Chelsea fan but that was the level the criticism sunk to on here and which you did nothing to counter.
Separately, are we supposed to believe she is intimidated by the likes of Sue Townsend, who has put years of work into promoting the club in Maidstone?
I wasn't aware that I had any responsibility for countering third-party criticism of people I've never met. I take responsibility for my own actions, not other people's. I seem to remember a lot of the criticism of BK came out of a meeting at Bromley that you reported on here. Perhaps it was your fault?!