It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
This - all day long.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
This - all day long.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
Yet last season whilst full of confidence, he was easily Championship standard. Short memories snd all that.
He is totally proactive. I can't think of any other recent defender who comes out towards midfield to win the ball early so often or so well. It's possible he sometimes isn't aggressive enough still but that's a different matter entirely
He seems to be a player very much impacted by confidence. When he’s got the bit between his teeth, certainly from a distribution/attacking sense he’s a real asset (his pass to Williams for the assist to Bonne in the Derby game a good example). I’m still not sure about him defensively at this level. You’ve got a lot of players that have played at the top level as forwards at some point in their career. I appreciate he may not be as comfortable playing in a back 3, but on Saturday where we lined up with a back 4, I felt he had a poor first half, and was definitely at fault for the goal. I felt he was actually okay in the second half, seemed to get better
the one thing I always worry about, is that he does always have it in him to make a mistake. This doesn’t seem to have changed/be changing.
Part of the vulnerability of our defence must be down to the revolving door of who plays there and whether it is a 3 or 4. Sarr is not an ever present, nor is he playing with same partner every match. Bowyer and Jackson were midfielders and perhaps don't understand the importance of a settled back-line.
Morrison, and Taylor played nearly every match.
To be fair, you do have a point. Yes, we have players who can’t play 3 games in a week, have had injuries etc. Up until now, Lockyer has been the only ever present, and that’s the whole team. Do I think that the amount of changes (forced or not) has contributed to the amount of goals we are conceding at the moment? Yes, I think you’d have to say it is.
But to suggest the LB and JJ don't appreciate the benefits of a settled back four is laughable.
Not for one moment am I suggesting they don’t appreciate it. I think we all can tell that they would love to be able to name the same back four each week. My point was that I think the amount of changes to the team, including in defence, has contributed to the amount of goals we have conceded. That’s not to the fault of anyone, the vast majority of changes have been forced upon us due to the circumstances of the squad.
In some ways Sarr has been another casualty of our injury crisis. Training with / against Taylor last season really developed his physicality, "nastiness" and confidence. He's gone backwards recently while Lyle has been out.
I don't think Henners comment was aimed at your take on things @Sage mate I read it that the claim by Harvey's because Bowyer and JJ were midfielders they weren't best placed to understand the problem, as being incomprehensible in itself.
In some ways Sarr has been another casualty of our injury crisis. Training with / against Taylor last season really developed his physicality, "nastiness" and confidence. He's gone backwards recently while Lyle has been out.
Fair point too. Facing up against Davison and Leko, and Bonne to an extent, is hardly like being constantly held off by Taylor.
I don't think Henners comment was aimed at your take on things @Sage mate I read it that the claim by Harvey's because Bowyer and JJ were midfielders they weren't best placed to understand the problem not believable.
It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
This - all day long.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
Yet last season whilst full of confidence, he was easily Championship standard. Short memories snd all that.
Impossible for him to be CHAMPIONSHIP standard in LEAGUE ONE last season.
He was ok in a dominant LEAGUE ONE side where teams often put 11 players behind the ball so he had all the time in the world to go forward and pick out passes.
But in the big games v Donny and Sunderland where they pressed us he wasn't that good.
He's not the worse player ever but neither is he "Beckensarr" or even a first choice for Charlton.
Change is coming. New players will arrive and many of our current heroes will move on.
I thank them all, including Naby, for taking us this far and wish them well.
It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
This - all day long.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
Yet last season whilst full of confidence, he was easily Championship standard. Short memories snd all that.
Impossible for him to be CHAMPIONSHIP standard in LEAGUE ONE last season.
He was ok in a dominant LEAGUE ONE side where teams often put 11 players behind the ball so he had all the time in the world to go forward and pick out passes.
But in the big games v Donny and Sunderland where they pressed us he wasn't that good.
He's not the worse player ever but neither is he "Beckensarr" or even a first choice for Charlton.
Change is coming. New players will arrive and many of our current heroes will move on.
I thank them all, including Naby, for taking us this far and wish them well.
Agreed - Sarr needs too much time on the ball to be truly effective at a higher level.
To an extent how you train will affect how you perform on a match day but you can't teach aggressiveness in a player if it isn't in their make up. I give you two examples from our past, Darren Ambrose a creative goal scoring midfielder who never fancied a tackle. At the other end of the spectrum Steve Brown who never shirked a challenge in his career and often made a 50/50, 60/40 in his favour. For England back in the day Bobby Charlton would rarely tackle preferring to jockey an opponent whereas his brother Jack would take man, ball and anything else nearby, out if necessary. Two brothers, same genes but completely different make up when tackling. One was a LW/CF, the other a CH and Jack would never have had a World Cup winners medal if he hadn't played with that aggressive streak. As a CB one of your objectives is to dominate your opponent especially in the air, I give you the late Paul Went, Steve Thomson, Peter Shirtliffe and Richard Rufus to name but a few. You can try to instill a bit more aggression into a player but if it's not a natural trait it will always be an issue, as it is for Naby IMO. Bowyer and JJ know this, they've tried to do something about it but they must be resigning themselves to a lost cause on that side of his game. It's a shame because he is normally good carrying the ball out of defence and pinging some decent balls forward but unless he starts to make full use of his physical attributes coupled with a bit more aggression his career will stall at this level I'm afraid.
Serious question @Leuth being a keeper, surely you wouldn't have been happy with the aerial challenges Naby put in at the toolbox or on Saturday which resulted in goals against. No, don't tell me you would have pulled off two worldies to bail him out 😉
It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
This - all day long.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
Yet last season whilst full of confidence, he was easily Championship standard. Short memories snd all that.
So one good season in League One makes him Championship standard does it? Righto.
Some incredibly harsh posts about Sarr. He’s had a bad month, and should probably have spent more time on the bench in that time but because of our lack of squad depth that’s not possible. He was excellent last season, and good in Aug/Sept. To write him off as not championship standard is silly, when he gets his confidence back people he’ll be class.
Personally think he should be push forward and maybe re-trained in defensive midfielder. Clearly has the technique to be a midfielder and his stamina always seems okay.
Taking the aggressive nature aside, he knows how to defend to a man.
Personally think he should be push forward and maybe re-trained in defensive midfielder. Clearly has the technique to be a midfielder and his stamina always seems okay.
Taking the aggressive nature aside, he knows how to defend to a man.
Just a suggestion of course!
Was saying to someone at the weekend he could be a DM - not sure if it's been tried?
He's just too slow and cumbersome on the ball though for midfield. As soon as he's pressed he struggles and he'd get less time on the ball than he does now.
He's just too slow and cumbersome on the ball though for midfield. As soon as he's pressed he struggles and he'd get less time on the ball than he does now.
He's just too slow and cumbersome on the ball though for midfield. As soon as he's pressed he struggles and he'd get less time on the ball than he does now.
He does take too long sometimes granted but give him the time and training to give him spacial awareness and it could be a good fit.
He doesnt need pace. Needs to be able to read the game, make the tackle and play the simple ball. He does have the ability to spray the ball out to the wings to launch a counter.
Unfortunately despite some of those sublime passes: the up and over to Williams for Bonne goal, the prerequisite for a 6ft 4in defender is to win the crosses in the air against forwards. Against Smith and Fletcher he failed to do that, I have always overlooked or forgiven his idiosyncratic moments ( cock ups ) Naby Sarr have given everything for the cause and it was only the last 3 games in League 1 when he looked vulnerable. This season he is looking shaky at the back on several occasions despite some good forwards surges. Lee Bowyer, when the new owners are in situ can after his own and his coaches plus Lyle Taylor contracts are sorted can work out who stays and who goes.
The Nabster's career at Cafc over 5 years has been a rollercoaster from sublime to the ridiculous, back to the sublime and then ridiculous again: and that's just in one game !
I will try to remember the Cruyff turn and the 40 yard cross ball passes rather than the Bambi on ice performances. I believe next season will be one season too much but I along with @Leuth and many others will give Naby 100% backing when ever he is picked.
It seems to me that what Naby is lacking is the ruthless, bloody-minded will to win. Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player. I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his. We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners. Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners. On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
This - all day long.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
Yet last season whilst full of confidence, he was easily Championship standard. Short memories snd all that.
So one good season in League One makes him Championship standard does it? Righto.
Not my stance. People were collectively saying he was too good for League one, I've therefore had to assume they meant at least championship standard.
I think Sarr is good enough for the championship, but has as others have stated, struggled to make a solid defensive partnership this season.
He's a very good League 1 player and a suitable Championship defender.
Comments
Pearce has it and yet you could argue that Naby is the more technically gifted player.
I take on board @Sage's informed suggestion that Naby's positioning was at fault for the first goal, but also to me it was a stark example of Naby needing to make that ball his.
We see it as well in an attacking context with our pathetic record of never making anything from our corners.
Naby is 6ft 5 - he should be virtually skittling opponents out of the way to get his head on the end of corners.
On the rare occasion our corners result in a goal it is usually Pearce that makes the difference.
Unfortunately you can't coach agressiveness and assertiveness - which Naby lacks in abundance.
He is very much a reactive type of defender, rather than a proactive one that looks to get on the front foot.
As others have said, for a guy of his size, he is nowhere near strong enough in the air.
the one thing I always worry about, is that he does always have it in him to make a mistake. This doesn’t seem to have changed/be changing.
He was ok in a dominant LEAGUE ONE side where teams often put 11 players behind the ball so he had all the time in the world to go forward and pick out passes.
But in the big games v Donny and Sunderland where they pressed us he wasn't that good.
He's not the worse player ever but neither is he "Beckensarr" or even a first choice for Charlton.
Change is coming. New players will arrive and many of our current heroes will move on.
I thank them all, including Naby, for taking us this far and wish them well.
For England back in the day Bobby Charlton would rarely tackle preferring to jockey an opponent whereas his brother Jack would take man, ball and anything else nearby, out if necessary. Two brothers, same genes but completely different make up when tackling. One was a LW/CF, the other a CH and Jack would never have had a World Cup winners medal if he hadn't played with that aggressive streak.
As a CB one of your objectives is to dominate your opponent especially in the air, I give you the late Paul Went, Steve Thomson, Peter Shirtliffe and Richard Rufus to name but a few. You can try to instill a bit more aggression into a player but if it's not a natural trait it will always be an issue, as it is for Naby IMO. Bowyer and JJ know this, they've tried to do something about it but they must be resigning themselves to a lost cause on that side of his game. It's a shame because he is normally good carrying the ball out of defence and pinging some decent balls forward but unless he starts to make full use of his physical attributes coupled with a bit more aggression his career will stall at this level I'm afraid.
He said he was/could be Premier League standard.
Taking the aggressive nature aside, he knows how to defend to a man.
Just a suggestion of course!
Lee Bowyer, when the new owners are in situ can after his own and his coaches plus Lyle Taylor contracts are sorted can work out who stays and who goes.
The Nabster's career at Cafc over 5 years has been a rollercoaster from sublime to the ridiculous, back to the sublime and then ridiculous again: and that's just in one game !
I will try to remember the Cruyff turn and the 40 yard cross ball passes rather than the Bambi on ice performances.
I believe next season will be one season too much but I along with @Leuth and many others will give Naby 100% backing when ever he is picked.
I think Sarr is good enough for the championship, but has as others have stated, struggled to make a solid defensive partnership this season.
He's a very good League 1 player and a suitable Championship defender.