I'm just trying to add the West Ham take (or at least that of a West Ham fan though I don't pretend to speak for a majority) to this topic. As for looking silly someone ultimately will, both as far as fans are concerned "gobbing" off and also politicians, journalists and club owners. Who will end up with the most egg on face and who will have to eat the biggest slice of humble pie remains to be seen. When it comes to my club I become very protective. In this entire process of bidding for the OS (even well before West Ham and the LLDC were negotiating a deal) there were numerous attempts to throw spanners in the works for us, first to not get a foothold in the OS at all, then about having to groundshare or seeing the outcome of the bidding processes challenged and now this petition. If I was in your position I might be doing exactly the same, demanding answers, feeling hard done by. As a West Ham fan I feel ambivalent about our move as I love the Boleyn a lot. I now feel maybe it is finally the time for West Ham to have a bit of luck and I see getting the OS as just that. To see this (still) being challenged left, right and center makes me angry. As there have been numerous legal challenges already. And I'm still convinced this is mainly a case of jealous and sour grapes. But for all our sakes I hope the finer details of this deal get published sooner rather than later.
I'm just trying to add the West Ham take (or at least that of a West Ham fan though I don't pretend to speak for a majority) to this topic. As for looking silly someone ultimately will, both as far as fans are concerned "gobbing" off and also politicians, journalists and club owners. Who will end up with the most egg on face and who will have to eat the biggest slice of humble pie remains to be seen. When it comes to my club I become very protective. In this entire process of bidding for the OS (even well before West Ham and the LLDC were negotiating a deal) there were numerous attempts to throw spanners in the works for us, first to not get a foothold in the OS at all, then about having to groundshare or seeing the outcome of the bidding processes challenged and now this petition. If I was in your position I might be doing exactly the same, demanding answers, feeling hard done by. As a West Ham fan I feel ambivalent about our move as I love the Boleyn a lot. I now feel maybe it is finally the time for West Ham to have a bit of luck and I see getting the OS as just that. To see this (still) being challenged left, right and center makes me angry. As there have been numerous legal challenges already. And I'm still convinced this is mainly a case of jealous and sour grapes. But for all our sakes I hope the finer details of this deal get published sooner rather than later.
No, I didn't sign. I'm sure though wilth all this help and support of fellow fans from clubs like Chelsea or Man U (who are known for their continued fight for fairness and competitive balance in English football) you won't need my signature to easily reach 100.000 signatures within the next few months.
To see this (still) being challenged left, right and center makes me angry. As there have been numerous legal challenges already. And I'm still convinced this is mainly a case of jealous and sour grapes.
You're wrong. No one cares who the team is, we care that a club in London has been potentially handed tens of millions of pounds of public money (we will never know the true figure as much of it lies in secrecy) which they intend to use to compete with other clubs by flogging cheap tickets in other clubs' turfs, or other PL clubs via transfer fees.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
Thanks for confirming that our potential recruitment area will not be affected. I can sleep a little easier now! But just for clarity, can you confirm that WHU will not be selling cheap tickets to NW Kent inhabitants via HS1 into Stratford Intl or using Ebbsfleet as a cheap park & ride ? I am sure with your 'connections' you already know it's an 11 minute journey.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
The tickets to Newham are not free, they paid £45m for them.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
Still trotting out the "CAFC are hypocrites" line by bringing up the subsidised coachs that our club paid for to market itself to lapsed supporters who had moved further out to Kent I see. The fact that it was the club's pockets not the flipping taxpayer's that the cash for those coaches came out of doesn't seem to register with you, but then it doesn't with Lady Brady et al either.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
Still trotting out the "CAFC are hypocrites" line by bringing up the subsidised coachs that our club paid for to market itself to lapsed supporters who had moved further out to Kent I see. The fact that it was the club's pockets not the flipping taxpayer's that the cash for those coaches came out of doesn't seem to register with you, but then it doesn't with Lady Brady et al either.
Reflects the strength of their arguments when this is used as an example ...just a smokescreen, nothing to see here.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
Still trotting out the "CAFC are hypocrites" line by bringing up the subsidised coachs that our club paid for to market itself to lapsed supporters who had moved further out to Kent I see. The fact that it was the club's pockets not the flipping taxpayer's that the cash for those coaches came out of doesn't seem to register with you, but then it doesn't with Lady Brady et al either.
I'm not sure Karren Brady knows the difference. After all, as written by Martin Samuels, "you might even conclude your money is in rather good hands."
Could or should the deal have been similar to Manchester or Amsterdam ? Maybe. But it is not because this is a different scenario, resulting in different negotiations and different terms.
Look, you want the numbers, so do I, but the LLDC apparently wants to keep some of those secret for the time being to protect their business interests (on behalf of stadium operator Vinci) in order to get some other events in there as well on favourable terms.
As you say above different negotiations and different terms Why keep parts of the 99 year deal secrecy , no one else is looking for that
Germaneastender, can you confirm that you are not in politics or connected to west ham? It's just that you display a natural ability to churn out the same old spin time and time again while ignoring the real issue at hand.
Morning all, just thought I would thank everyone who has contributed to the factual arguments in the last 2-3pages. I spent a good half hour last night lifting a lot of your comments into a doc. where I can easily access them to develop our responses. I'm in touch with some of you off the thread, but wanted to thank all of you. CL at its brilliant best.
Right now I'm particularly interested in sharpening the argument that releasing the full contract won't materially harm LLDC's negotiating position with other potential users of the stadium. Some of you have already done a good job on that, but do contribute more thoughts if you can.
West Ham already do kids for a quid and stuff like that, other clubs do similar stuff. It's hard for any club to generate a new breed of future fans. I think I read that the free tickets you mentioned will be given to locals in the arey by Newham council who as you will know anyway are heavily involved in the OS business. So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected. We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal. Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain. Which essentially is irrelevant. What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process. I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
GEE’s invitation to sign the petition and his decision to decline made me think about If I were a West Ham fan. Here are two scenarios
Scenario 1. I love my club, the history, the heritage, the Boleyn ground, my Saturday afternoons sharing a pint in the local with family and mates. The hustle and bustle of match days in the East End, where there are houses, shops, pubs and real people. I hate the idea of two wide boys telling me what’s good for me and forcing me into a huge soulless arena where I will be ripped off by the corporate boys and forced to watch the match through opera glasses.
Meanwhile the two 'johnny come latelys' and lady Brady are getting extremely rich and fat on the demise of everything I love - where do sign?
Scenario 2. I believe everything is wonderful about the move and my Queen, Lady Brady says (I paraphrase) ‘There are no dirty dealings - the Porn kings have come good.’ (see what I done there?)
I’d want the World to know my club is clean and the deal morally correct and all above board, lets have an open forum and let the facts speak for themselves … again where do I sign? I want to be able to be proud of the move and especially prove those nasty envious, CAST people wrong.
The thing is I suspect that most (S2) WHU fans would decline to sign the petition as imho it would be akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.
I don't think WHU fans will be happy trying to generate atmosphere whilst also hoping to see what's happening on the pitch from about half a mile away. Whilst for the new ground novelty period every away team will have it marked down as the big day out. Surely it will end up populated by trippers and quieter than the Emirates, at which time Gold etc will cash in the profits? Wouldn't want any of that for CAFC.
I'm no politician, merely an overseas fan who used to work in East London for a while, becoming a West Ham supporter there and then. I know our owners and Brady are mainly shrewd businesspeople and I don't like everything I say and I certainly don't like everything about our move there, despite me being detached from it all of course as i can only make very few games in person anyway. Again, I cannot sign the petition anyway because I'm no longer based in the UK. AS for the OS in recent days more and more pics have been released from people working on the conversion. It is quite obviously a compromise solution (again), not comparable to the Boleyn, and in general you are further away from the pitch which is apparently a problem for some, but certainly not for all. I've seen pics from the dead end, the worst seats in the house, behind the goals, furthest away from the pitch, the seats that actually will not even be sold but cordoned off with a tarpaulin. I would have no problem at all watching and enjoying my football from one of those seats, especially taking into account the price for tickets near that area. And don't worry about the atmosphere, the atmosphere has gone down in the Boleyn for years. It really depends on the football served on the pitch, our crowd can be incredibly vocal, but also quiet on occasion. The OS as such will not create or destroy the atmosphere, it will be the fans.
As for the Charlton fans who keep piping up: isn't this the club that laid on coaches to take fans from Gillingham to The Valley for games? Jitman, London.
Indeed it is, Jitman. And still does, in fact. Their website confirms this. 'The club continues to run the popular Valley Express service, bringing in supporters old and new to home matches from dozens of pick-up points across Kent and Sussex.' So by new customers, one presumes they mean people who previously didn't support Charlton Athletic. And as these pick-up points include the home of Football League teams Brighton, Gillingham and Crawley Town, and National League teams Margate, Dover, Maidstone and Eastbourne, it does seem rather hypocritical to accuse West Ham of trying to poach Charlton fans simply by existing in a bigger stadium. It's not as if extra ferries are being laid on from Woolwich. Anyway, Charlton have never been considered rivals to West Ham. London is the only city in England whose clubs divide on the points of a compass – north, south, east and west. Charlton are a south London club, West Ham from east London. Folk in provincial cities might find this surprising, but there is about as much chance of a south Londoner veering towards West Ham as there is of a bloke in Sheffield deciding to support Leeds.
Being on different sides you see Samuel's comments as crap arguments and snide remarks while taking those of other journos as gospel who are also guilty of choosing which arguments to present and which facts to conveniently leave out. Let's just see Samuel's comments as another piece of information that may help people forming their own opinions on this.
Being on different sides you see Samuel's comments as crap arguments and snide remarks while taking those of other journos as gospel who are also guilty of choosing which arguments to present and which facts to conveniently leave out. Let's just see Samuel's comments as another piece of information that may help people forming their own opinions on this.
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on the "Valley Express" given what has been written. Are the comments he makes what the scheme is all about? This would help me greatly to see if the way it is worded and the impressions if gives off have any basis in fact.
Being on different sides you see Samuel's Brady's comments as crap arguments and snide remarks while taking those of other journos as gospel who are also guilty of choosing which arguments to present and which facts to conveniently leave out. Let's just see Samuel's Brady's comments as another piece of information that may help people forming their own opinions on this.
I don't think we need to worry about Samuels, because when the proper investigative Mail boys return from holiday they will have him put back in his very large box. But he is breathtakingly stupid. Of course there will not be extra ferries, you fat bellend. Because there is something called the Docklands Light Railway already running into Woolwich.
Comments
Who will end up with the most egg on face and who will have to eat the biggest slice of humble pie remains to be seen. When it comes to my club I become very protective.
In this entire process of bidding for the OS (even well before West Ham and the LLDC were negotiating a deal) there were numerous attempts to throw spanners in the works for us, first to not get a foothold in the OS at all, then about having to groundshare or seeing the outcome of the bidding processes challenged and now this petition.
If I was in your position I might be doing exactly the same, demanding answers, feeling hard done by.
As a West Ham fan I feel ambivalent about our move as I love the Boleyn a lot.
I now feel maybe it is finally the time for West Ham to have a bit of luck and I see getting the OS as just that.
To see this (still) being challenged left, right and center makes me angry. As there have been numerous legal challenges already. And I'm still convinced this is mainly a case of jealous and sour grapes.
But for all our sakes I hope the finer details of this deal get published sooner rather than later.
So your potential recruitment area (including the Gillingham area) will not be affected.
We will have to agree to disagree: You think West Ham have been given too much in the deal.
Some of you may still think that once the deal has been put into the public domain.
Which essentially is irrelevant.
What matters is if there is a court or a government that is willing to force the parties to renegotiate the terms of the deal, obviously opening another massive can of worms in the process.
I trust both the LLDC and West Ham will be able to fight this off. Continue to do your bid in getting this public enquiry of yours.
Take your rose tinted specs off and realise that NO ONE cares about west ham playing at the OS.
Do you understand..??
What will be will be.
Why keep parts of the 99 year deal secrecy , no one else is looking for that
Reading through the Wolves post match thread and the attached advert popped up, promoting cheap season tickets for West Ham at the OS!
Right now I'm particularly interested in sharpening the argument that releasing the full contract won't materially harm LLDC's negotiating position with other potential users of the stadium. Some of you have already done a good job on that, but do contribute more thoughts if you can.
Cheers!
Scenario 1.
I love my club, the history, the heritage, the Boleyn ground, my Saturday afternoons sharing a pint in the local with family and mates. The hustle and bustle of match days in the East End, where there are houses, shops, pubs and real people. I hate the idea of two wide boys telling me what’s good for me and forcing me into a huge soulless arena where I will be ripped off by the corporate boys and forced to watch the match through opera glasses.
Meanwhile the two 'johnny come latelys' and lady Brady are getting extremely rich and fat on the demise of everything I love - where do sign?
Scenario 2.
I believe everything is wonderful about the move and my Queen, Lady Brady says (I paraphrase) ‘There are no dirty dealings - the Porn kings have come good.’ (see what I done there?)
I’d want the World to know my club is clean and the deal morally correct and all above board, lets have an open forum and let the facts speak for themselves … again where do I sign? I want to be able to be proud of the move and especially prove those nasty envious, CAST people wrong.
The thing is I suspect that most (S2) WHU fans would decline to sign the petition as imho it would be akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.
For the record I align myself with S1.
Again, I cannot sign the petition anyway because I'm no longer based in the UK.
AS for the OS in recent days more and more pics have been released from people working on the conversion.
It is quite obviously a compromise solution (again), not comparable to the Boleyn, and in general you are further away from the pitch which is apparently a problem for some, but certainly not for all.
I've seen pics from the dead end, the worst seats in the house, behind the goals, furthest away from the pitch, the seats that actually will not even be sold but cordoned off with a tarpaulin.
I would have no problem at all watching and enjoying my football from one of those seats, especially taking into account the price for tickets near that area. And don't worry about the atmosphere, the atmosphere has gone down in the Boleyn for years.
It really depends on the football served on the pitch, our crowd can be incredibly vocal, but also quiet on occasion.
The OS as such will not create or destroy the atmosphere, it will be the fans.
**Disclaimer**
I don't read The Daily Mail.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3211751/West-Ham-s-Olympic-Stadium-means-home-heroes-doesn-t-sit-doing-50-weeks.html
As for the Charlton fans who keep piping up: isn't this the club that laid on coaches to take fans from Gillingham to The Valley for games? Jitman, London.
Indeed it is, Jitman. And still does, in fact. Their website confirms this. 'The club continues to run the popular Valley Express service, bringing in supporters old and new to home matches from dozens of pick-up points across Kent and Sussex.' So by new customers, one presumes they mean people who previously didn't support Charlton Athletic. And as these pick-up points include the home of Football League teams Brighton, Gillingham and Crawley Town, and National League teams Margate, Dover, Maidstone and Eastbourne, it does seem rather hypocritical to accuse West Ham of trying to poach Charlton fans simply by existing in a bigger stadium. It's not as if extra ferries are being laid on from Woolwich. Anyway, Charlton have never been considered rivals to West Ham. London is the only city in England whose clubs divide on the points of a compass – north, south, east and west. Charlton are a south London club, West Ham from east London. Folk in provincial cities might find this surprising, but there is about as much chance of a south Londoner veering towards West Ham as there is of a bloke in Sheffield deciding to support Leeds.
"bloody good journo"