GEE’s invitation to sign the petition and his decision to decline made me think about If I were a West Ham fan. Here are two scenarios
Scenario 1. I love my club, the history, the heritage, the Boleyn ground, my Saturday afternoons sharing a pint in the local with family and mates. The hustle and bustle of match days in the East End, where there are houses, shops, pubs and real people. I hate the idea of two wide boys telling me what’s good for me and forcing me into a huge soulless arena where I will be ripped off by the corporate boys and forced to watch the match through opera glasses.
Meanwhile the two 'johnny come latelys' and lady Brady are getting extremely rich and fat on the demise of everything I love - where do sign?
Scenario 2. I believe everything is wonderful about the move and my Queen, Lady Brady says (I paraphrase) ‘There are no dirty dealings - the Porn kings have come good.’ (see what I done there?)
I’d want the World to know my club is clean and the deal morally correct and all above board, lets have an open forum and let the facts speak for themselves … again where do I sign? I want to be able to be proud of the move and especially prove those nasty envious, CAST people wrong.
The thing is I suspect that most (S2) WHU fans would decline to sign the petition as imho it would be akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.
For the record I align myself with S1.
Just spent half hour in a cab having an interesting chat with the driver who is a Hammers fan. Scenario 1 is almost exactly the way he sees it and he states that there are many Hammers fans who feel the same way. He, and the guys who go to the game with him, believe it is wrong that the taxpayer is supprting the move so heavily.
They do not like the way this is going forward and believe the lack of transparency is now beginning to show the club in a very bad light.
It ain't just us GEE, a lot of your own fans are concerned too.
I know you pay for the Valley Express yourself, but am I correct in saying that this is to bring existing AND new fans to the Valley, passing through catchment areas of other clubs like Gillingham ? You certainly don't ask those getting on the bus trick questions to weed out those that are new fans and keep them from entering, right, so they may stay closer to home and support their local club instead of Charlton ? In that respect it's a bit rich criticising West Ham for trying to attract new fans when doing just what every club is doing (and every club needs to do this in order to secure the next generation of club fans). I know your issue is with West Ham presumably paying too little rent and all that, but West Ham are offering cheap tickets for selected games already and have done so for years without being in the OS. I also think London based fans don't choose their allegiance according to ticket prices and transport links. Your catchment area is South London and even with improved transport links to Stratford, don't you think that most folks interested in football would find themselves a South London club to support ? I'm also sure you all have kids who don't even get a choice and will follow in your footsteps becoming Charlton fans for life. Most fans "find" their clubs by way of being born into supporting the club their dads and granddads supported.
Thanks GEE that answered my concerns exactly how I was expecting. So going back to your argument "which arguments to present and which facts to conveniently leave out" It would be great if the arguments presented are based on facts All this does is make me more convinced that something very wrong has gone on and the lines coming out are to detract from what we are all just after - the truth
I am perfectly aware that West Ham fans have differing opinions on this issue. As I said, read the articles, watch the programmes and then form your opinion, but try to also take in different angles (like the Samuel one).
@GermanEastEnder We have never,ever criticized West Ham for trying to find new fans. the issue is with the authorities handing over so much taxpayers money that they can spray tickets around at any price because they become a cost free business apart from wages.
And that really should be the last time this is explained to you because it wasn't the first.
Valley Express is a concept created by fans to help bring back fans who have moved out of inner London and for whom the journey would otherwise be extremely difficult. It probably carries in total about the capacity of two DLR trains. And not a penny of it is funded by e taxpayer.
I am perfectly aware that West Ham fans have differing opinions on this issue. As I said, read the articles, watch the programmes and then form your opinion, but try to also take in different angles (like the Samuel one).
Wow you are very good at missing the point. Just like a very well trained politician Is it fair that your opinion can be made up of half lies and innuendos from the press giving out "party" lines? By party I mean the current Government and West Ham owners and Brady
I would like to know in your option have any of us done the same?
I'm just trying to add the West Ham take (or at least that of a West Ham fan though I don't pretend to speak for a majority) to this topic. As for looking silly someone ultimately will, both as far as fans are concerned "gobbing" off and also politicians, journalists and club owners. Who will end up with the most egg on face and who will have to eat the biggest slice of humble pie remains to be seen. When it comes to my club I become very protective. In this entire process of bidding for the OS (even well before West Ham and the LLDC were negotiating a deal) there were numerous attempts to throw spanners in the works for us, first to not get a foothold in the OS at all, then about having to groundshare or seeing the outcome of the bidding processes challenged and now this petition. If I was in your position I might be doing exactly the same, demanding answers, feeling hard done by. As a West Ham fan I feel ambivalent about our move as I love the Boleyn a lot. I now feel maybe it is finally the time for West Ham to have a bit of luck and I see getting the OS as just that. To see this (still) being challenged left, right and center makes me angry. As there have been numerous legal challenges already. And I'm still convinced this is mainly a case of jealous and sour grapes. But for all our sakes I hope the finer details of this deal get published sooner rather than later.
I think we all need to acknowledge that you're bringing a different perspective to us this and it's valuable. It's good to have rational exchange on something that's clearly got people's emotions going. Let's not - all of us - bring this back to tribal stuff.
I keep hearing the jealousy/sour grapes thing, but it really isn't the case. Think it through - id it was, we'd be trying to stop you using the Olympic Stadium altogether, wouldn't we? If it was, why on earth are Man Utd or Arsenal fans jealous?
Frankly, I wish you the very best of luck at the Olympic Stadium - but I expect West Ham to be making a reasonable investment into a stadium that is essentially being rebuilt for you (athletics won't need more than 25,000 lower tier seats, after all) and for which it's estimated you'll be using half the major event days. Contributing 5.5% and nothing else for a century is "a deal, it's a steal, it's the sale of the f'king century."
And West Ham has just announced the design of the seating, which surprise to surprise is to their specification.
So the threat was that you could have stayed at Upton Park and rebuilt the East Stand, for which you had planning permission until it was withdrawn in 2007 - I know that there was a £1.1m section 106 attached, but it's likely a rebuild of that stand would have cost in the region of £50m That would take it to a 40k capacity. Put in the context of those costs and the likely return for just 5000 new seats, it strikes me that it would have taken another £50m capital investment minimum and probably around three times the rent figure before West Ham walked away from the deal.
So as much as you think this is all about West Ham and how others are jealous, in fact it's really about the LLDC, public money and fair competition - which you should want too, because you wouldn't want this to set a precedent now would you?
As for the Charlton fans who keep piping up: isn't this the club that laid on coaches to take fans from Gillingham to The Valley for games? Jitman, London.
Indeed it is, Jitman. And still does, in fact. Their website confirms this. 'The club continues to run the popular Valley Express service, bringing in supporters old and new to home matches from dozens of pick-up points across Kent and Sussex.' So by new customers, one presumes they mean people who previously didn't support Charlton Athletic. And as these pick-up points include the home of Football League teams Brighton, Gillingham and Crawley Town, and National League teams Margate, Dover, Maidstone and Eastbourne, it does seem rather hypocritical to accuse West Ham of trying to poach Charlton fans simply by existing in a bigger stadium. It's not as if extra ferries are being laid on from Woolwich. Anyway, Charlton have never been considered rivals to West Ham. London is the only city in England whose clubs divide on the points of a compass – north, south, east and west. Charlton are a south London club, West Ham from east London. Folk in provincial cities might find this surprising, but there is about as much chance of a south Londoner veering towards West Ham as there is of a bloke in Sheffield deciding to support Leeds.
Wow, that entire article is embarrassing. Martin Samuel is a respected and award-winning journalist, and he rolls that lot out.
So essentially the ticket prices for West Ham are going to be subsidised by the taxpayer, and any new fans Wet Spam bring in will only pay, let's say £20 instead of £30, therefore the tickets are likely to be popular. So the growth of the club will be a direct result of the taxpayer and the fact that Wet Spam are paying peanuts for everything.
Valley Express, a concept thought of, and put into action by, existing supporters of Charlton Athletic, which isn't paid for by taxpayers in any way, shape or form, and actually doesn't really affect the influx of new supporters (as our attendances in the last 2 and a bit seasons show) but somehow we're also in the wrong?
I think you'll find that a lot of the problem will also lie with the corporate and hospitality aspect of the deal, having the capacity for a large amount of corporate events and being able to rake in a lot more money through those, simply because its the OS which is a more attractive proposition to large companies than UP.
So you have a world class venue served to you on a silver platter with extensive facilities, outstanding transport links and all paid for by the public, and you don't see any problem with it? What if it was handed to the Spuds?
What about Orient, they've always had to live with being squeezed by Spurs to the North and West Ham to the south
Yes, but that was always down to football economics. Now it's down to public funds that mean West Ham become one of the biggest clubs in Europe because they give just £15m to the capital cost of the conversion, and basically reap millions after millions of up-sell revenues for net zero cost.
West Ham weren't about to flood their area with 100,000 free tickets before either.
What about Orient, they've always had to live with being squeezed by Spurs to the North and West Ham to the south
Yes, but that was always down to football economics. Now it's down to public funds that mean West Ham become one of the biggest clubs in Europe because they give just £15m to the capital cost of the conversion, and basically reap millions after millions of up-sell revenues for net zero cost.
West Ham weren't about to flood their area with 100,000 free tickets before either.
Don't forget the money handed to Tottenham at the same time.
I have just see this bit that was left off from the original daily mail on Monday
"We will cross-promote events – hockey, swimming, athletics, our supporters will get offered deals to go to those events, those sports that need a wider audience.' "
So to get even more into the stadium they will be giving away tickets to other events? This needs much closer investing
Wow, that entire article is embarrassing. Martin Samuel is a respected and award-winning journalist, and he rolls that lot out.
To be fair to him, he's got a leading role in Emmerdale 5 days a week and a busy stretch of panto during December. It's a wonder he can fit the journo stuff in!
I know you pay for the Valley Express yourself, but am I correct in saying that this is to bring existing AND new fans to the Valley, passing through catchment areas of other clubs like Gillingham ? You certainly don't ask those getting on the bus trick questions to weed out those that are new fans and keep them from entering, right, so they may stay closer to home and support their local club instead of Charlton ? In that respect it's a bit rich criticising West Ham for trying to attract new fans when doing just what every club is doing (and every club needs to do this in order to secure the next generation of club fans). I know your issue is with West Ham presumably paying too little rent and all that, but West Ham are offering cheap tickets for selected games already and have done so for years without being in the OS. I also think London based fans don't choose their allegiance according to ticket prices and transport links. Your catchment area is South London and even with improved transport links to Stratford, don't you think that most folks interested in football would find themselves a South London club to support ? I'm also sure you all have kids who don't even get a choice and will follow in your footsteps becoming Charlton fans for life. Most fans "find" their clubs by way of being born into supporting the club their dads and granddads supported.
So it's cheaper and easier to watch football at West Ham from mid-Kent than it is Charlton. You don't support anyone and your boy's badgering you because he's seen the Premier League all over the telly and wants to watch a game. You go to the cheaper and easier option.
But it's cheaper because West Ham have net zero stadium costs. They have that because the government determined to bung in 90%+ of the costs of converting the stadium for them. So unlike other clubs who have to be selective about where they market because it needs to bring in net income, West Ham have 20,000 seats that are costing them absolutely nothing, they can afford the risk. Notwithstanding, Kent now makes West Ham as accessible if not more accessible than the Valley, Gillingham, Millwall, Orient, so it is a natural and qualified target market.
What about Orient, they've always had to live with being squeezed by Spurs to the North and West Ham to the south
Yes, but that was always down to football economics. Now it's down to public funds that mean West Ham become one of the biggest clubs in Europe because they give just £15m to the capital cost of the conversion, and basically reap millions after millions of up-sell revenues for net zero cost.
West Ham weren't about to flood their area with 100,000 free tickets before either.
Don't forget the money handed to Tottenham at the same time.
I know you pay for the Valley Express yourself, but am I correct in saying that this is to bring existing AND new fans to the Valley, passing through catchment areas of other clubs like Gillingham ? You certainly don't ask those getting on the bus trick questions to weed out those that are new fans and keep them from entering, right, so they may stay closer to home and support their local club instead of Charlton ? In that respect it's a bit rich criticising West Ham for trying to attract new fans when doing just what every club is doing (and every club needs to do this in order to secure the next generation of club fans). I know your issue is with West Ham presumably paying too little rent and all that, but West Ham are offering cheap tickets for selected games already and have done so for years without being in the OS. I also think London based fans don't choose their allegiance according to ticket prices and transport links. Your catchment area is South London and even with improved transport links to Stratford, don't you think that most folks interested in football would find themselves a South London club to support ? I'm also sure you all have kids who don't even get a choice and will follow in your footsteps becoming Charlton fans for life. Most fans "find" their clubs by way of being born into supporting the club their dads and granddads supported.
The only reason that you can accommodate new fans from other catchment areas is because the taxpayer has gifted you a massive great stadium. Charlton themselves subsidising a few coaches to bus in fans from Kent is a stupid and meaningless comparison.
Small diversion here Speaking of bell endsrespected and award winning journalists, I've needed to visit the City of Manchester Stadium Wiki a few times, but yesterday was the first time I came across this little gem. Maybe most of you know about this but it made me laugh
Despite the seating residing within a continuous oval bowl, each side of the stadium is named in the manner of a traditional football ground. All sides were initially named by compass direction (North Stand and South Stand for the ends, East Stand and West Stand for the sides).[54] In February 2004, after a vote by fans, the West Stand was renamed the Colin Bell Stand in honour of the former player.[55] The vote was almost canceled (and the stand instead named after Joe Mercer) due to suspicions it had been hijacked by rival fans who wished to dub the renamed stand "The Bell End".
I have just see this bit that was left off from the original daily mail on Monday
"We will cross-promote events – hockey, swimming, athletics, our supporters will get offered deals to go to those events, those sports that need a wider audience.' "
So to get even more into the stadium they will be giving away tickets to other events? This needs much closer investing
At the very least they'll use it to tap into corporate funding.
New seating structure announced here:
Hammers announce new Stadium upgrades • New ‘West Ham’ seating design unveiled • Club London lounges, pitch, seating bridge, Champions Place and Club Store will all be upgraded after summer events • 20,000 new supporters now on Priority List for Season Tickets • Fewer than 200 places left in entire Club London hospitality
West Ham United are delighted to announce that a stunning West Ham seating design is to be installed at the former Olympic Stadium.
Following extensive consultation with supporters, the seating layout will now be transformed to feature the unmistakable claret and blue colours of West Ham United, while preserving the iconic shard design synonymous with London 2012.
The enhancement – which will be paid for in full by West Ham – will also see the words ‘West Ham’ emblazoned across the ‘Kop’ style East Stand, which will be complemented by the instantly recognisable crossed hammer symbol, synonymous with the Hammers, appearing across the lower tier seats and both the North and South stands.
West Ham United Vice-Chairman Karren Brady said: “I am proud to unveil our final designs for the seating at our new home. My Board’s aim is always to exceed our supporters’ expectations. After detailed consultation with our Supporter Advisory Board and other fan groups it became clear that this matter was of paramount importance to them and reaffirmed our belief that we must work day and night to pursue a solution that they would be proud of.
“It is important to note that this transformation, along with several others, is being completely funded by West Ham United as another example of our commitment to pay our way at the new Stadium.
“We have always pledged that the new Stadium will look and feel like West Ham’s home and today’s announcement is further evidence that we have absolutely kept our promise.
“The improvements to the seating are just one of a number of crucial changes that our supporters will see taking shape following the end of the summer events, after which the Stadium will be handed back to the construction team in November. Only then, will the real ‘Westhamification’ take place.
“The day when we can finally unveil the finished Stadium to our fans is getting closer and I, for one, cannot wait.”
The Club are pleased to confirm that 20,000 new people have now joined the Priority List for Season Tickets at the new Stadium and the new-look seats will be just one of a number of major upgrades they will notice at the Hammers’ first game in their new home in August 2016.
The football requirements will also see an upgrade when the current turf is taken up to be replaced by a new world-class playing surface. West Ham United Head Groundsman Dougie Robertson will oversee the construction and development of the pitch over the winter to ensure it meets the extremely high standards he has set at the Boleyn Ground.
Away from the pitch, fewer than 200 places now remain in Club London and its stunning hospitality areas will be fitted out from scratch. Among them is The Boleyn bar, The Arnold Hills and The Academy, each with bespoke interiors inspired by the Club’s rich heritage.
Once complete, the VIP areas will offer unrivalled luxury and style to the thousands of supporters who have already secured their VIP seat.
They will set a new benchmark in hospitality in line with the Club’s spectacular designs revealed in September last year.
The new Official Stadium Store will also begin to be fitted out in January ahead of its opening next summer.
The huge, cutting edge new retail space will be nearly three times bigger than the current Stadium Store and will means tens of thousands of supporters can enjoy a wider choice of products and much quicker service every matchday.
There will also be a vast increase in West Ham branding around the Stadium to ensure it is a sea of claret and blue come the big kick-off next August.
The new West Ham United crest will have prominent placing throughout.
In addition to these significant developments, by the end of the year, the Club hope to confirm the final specifications of further ground-breaking marquee features, which are presently subject to planning consent.
Finally, the area that will host the new Champions Place stones and Champions Statue has also received planning permission for development, with work beginning in earnest in November.
“The improvements to the seating are just one of a number of crucial changes that our supporters will see taking shape following the end of the summer events, after which the Stadium will be handed back to the construction team in November. Only then, will the real ‘Westhamification’ take place.
Sounds very much like this is a stadium solely for West Ham and sod all the other supposed national / international events.
“The improvements to the seating are just one of a number of crucial changes that our supporters will see taking shape following the end of the summer events, after which the Stadium will be handed back to the construction team in November. Only then, will the real ‘Westhamification’ take place.
Sounds very much like this is a stadium solely for West Ham and sod all the other supposed national / international events.
I hope that some branding for UK athletics will be included and i am not talking just about some track side boarding
Also it would be very good to know if what West Ham are paying for branding is extra from what they have already agreed to pay or is it part of the figure they have already agreed to?
West Ham are paying for the seat reconfiguration themselves. So the seating should not be changed now, right, to reflect West Ham's presence there as anchor concessionaire? What do you want ? A club renting for 99 years, paying for the whole conversion, giving up the majority of income streams and having no club colours in there at all ? It's a bloody give and take. The LLDC wanted someone to lease the OS for 99 years, so they needed to make this an attractive offer. West Ham are contributing in relation to the number of days they will use the stadium. It can of course be argued whether they should have contributed more, but that is a question you have to put to the LLDC who will probably say they couldn't get more contribution upfront without the anchor concessionaire becoming disinterested in closing a deal altogether. Your asking for a bigger contribution is understandable, but with that comes the question how much contribution upfront you can realistically demand from a club tying itself to that stadium for 99 years without having ownership of the place or benefitting from the staging of other events in there, events that will also improve from the various conversion works. Most events need a roof, most events need seating that is close to the pitch. If West Ham paid 50 million towards conversion would you be happy with West Ham getting a bigger share of the naming rights for the next 99 years as a result of that bigger contribution ?
And of course you also remeber Barry Hearn when he was talking about groundsharing the OS in front of the House of Lords committee. He promised to give FREE Orient season tickets to every child, pensioner and member of the armed forces, 30.000 per game if need be, to fill the stadium, because in his words "it is not about the money for Orient". No, of course not...
My office only works Mon.-Fri. but I'm paying rent for the entire month! How can I tell my landlord that I will only be paying for the days I'm actually there and open for business? #smallbusinessambassador
Small diversion here Speaking of bell endsrespected and award winning journalists, I've needed to visit the City of Manchester Stadium Wiki a few times, but yesterday was the first time I came across this little gem. Maybe most of you know about this but it made me laugh
Despite the seating residing within a continuous oval bowl, each side of the stadium is named in the manner of a traditional football ground. All sides were initially named by compass direction (North Stand and South Stand for the ends, East Stand and West Stand for the sides).[54] In February 2004, after a vote by fans, the West Stand was renamed the Colin Bell Stand in honour of the former player.[55] The vote was almost canceled (and the stand instead named after Joe Mercer) due to suspicions it had been hijacked by rival fans who wished to dub the renamed stand "The Bell End".
I'm proud to say it got my vote. Only sorry that Millwall aren't playing in pink though.
West Ham are paying for the seat reconfiguration themselves. So the seating should not be changed now, right, to reflect West Ham's presence there as anchor concessionaire? What do you want ? A club renting for 99 years, paying for the whole conversion, giving up the majority of income streams and having no club colours in there at all ? It's a bloody give and take. The LLDC wanted someone to lease the OS for 99 years, so they needed to make this an attractive offer. West Ham are contributing in relation to the number of days they will use the stadium. It can of course be argued whether they should have contributed more, but that is a question you have to put to the LLDC who will probably say they couldn't get more contribution upfront without the anchor concessionaire becoming disinterested in closing a deal altogether. Your asking for a bigger contribution is understandable, but with that comes the question how much contribution upfront you can realistically demand from a club tying itself to that stadium for 99 years without having ownership of the place or benefitting from the staging of other events in there, events that will also improve from the various conversion works. Most events need a roof, most events need seating that is close to the pitch. If West Ham paid 50 million towards conversion would you be happy with West Ham getting a bigger share of the naming rights for the next 99 years as a result of that bigger contribution ?
I'll tell you the sort of deal I would have done if I were leading the negotiations on behalf of the LLDC.
- 99 year fully repairable lease with option to renew/extend/escape at xx years - any seat colour changes etc... fine but would need to be returned to original if lease not renewed. - Rental of £5m pa - increases year on year linked to CPI or similar (that gets the original construction costs back over the lifetime of the lease) - WH meet the full £170m costs of conversion with 75% of that covered by an interest free loan from LLDC only repayable out of proceeds above xxxm if/when club was sold or if lease not renewed or escape clause activated. - No Stadium naming rights - it stays THE OLYMPIC STADIUM
The Stadium with the retail etc.. is then West Hams in full and any additional revenue generated from other uses would be theirs - with perhaps some copper plate deals for Athletics built in.
Edit: Plus West Ham meet the full match day running costs, police, security etc... like all other clubs have to.
Comments
They do not like the way this is going forward and believe the lack of transparency is now beginning to show the club in a very bad light.
It ain't just us GEE, a lot of your own fans are concerned too.
On the BBC documentary that our German friend somehow watched, West Ham Supporters Club were against the move.
In that respect it's a bit rich criticising West Ham for trying to attract new fans when doing just what every club is doing (and every club needs to do this in order to secure the next generation of club fans).
I know your issue is with West Ham presumably paying too little rent and all that, but West Ham are offering cheap tickets for selected games already and have done so for years without being in the OS.
I also think London based fans don't choose their allegiance according to ticket prices and transport links.
Your catchment area is South London and even with improved transport links to Stratford, don't you think that most folks interested in football would find themselves a South London club to support ?
I'm also sure you all have kids who don't even get a choice and will follow in your footsteps becoming Charlton fans for life. Most fans "find" their clubs by way of being born into supporting the club their dads and granddads supported.
So going back to your argument "which arguments to present and which facts to conveniently leave out"
It would be great if the arguments presented are based on facts
All this does is make me more convinced that something very wrong has gone on and the lines coming out are to detract from what we are all just after - the truth
We have never,ever criticized West Ham for trying to find new fans. the issue is with the authorities handing over so much taxpayers money that they can spray tickets around at any price because they become a cost free business apart from wages.
And that really should be the last time this is explained to you because it wasn't the first.
Valley Express is a concept created by fans to help bring back fans who have moved out of inner London and for whom the journey would otherwise be extremely difficult. It probably carries in total about the capacity of two DLR trains. And not a penny of it is funded by e taxpayer.
Is it fair that your opinion can be made up of half lies and innuendos from the press giving out "party" lines?
By party I mean the current Government and West Ham owners and Brady
I would like to know in your option have any of us done the same?
I keep hearing the jealousy/sour grapes thing, but it really isn't the case. Think it through - id it was, we'd be trying to stop you using the Olympic Stadium altogether, wouldn't we? If it was, why on earth are Man Utd or Arsenal fans jealous?
Frankly, I wish you the very best of luck at the Olympic Stadium - but I expect West Ham to be making a reasonable investment into a stadium that is essentially being rebuilt for you (athletics won't need more than 25,000 lower tier seats, after all) and for which it's estimated you'll be using half the major event days. Contributing 5.5% and nothing else for a century is "a deal, it's a steal, it's the sale of the f'king century."
And West Ham has just announced the design of the seating, which surprise to surprise is to their specification.
So the threat was that you could have stayed at Upton Park and rebuilt the East Stand, for which you had planning permission until it was withdrawn in 2007 - I know that there was a £1.1m section 106 attached, but it's likely a rebuild of that stand would have cost in the region of £50m That would take it to a 40k capacity. Put in the context of those costs and the likely return for just 5000 new seats, it strikes me that it would have taken another £50m capital investment minimum and probably around three times the rent figure before West Ham walked away from the deal.
So as much as you think this is all about West Ham and how others are jealous, in fact it's really about the LLDC, public money and fair competition - which you should want too, because you wouldn't want this to set a precedent now would you?
Valley Express, a concept thought of, and put into action by, existing supporters of Charlton Athletic, which isn't paid for by taxpayers in any way, shape or form, and actually doesn't really affect the influx of new supporters (as our attendances in the last 2 and a bit seasons show) but somehow we're also in the wrong?
I think you'll find that a lot of the problem will also lie with the corporate and hospitality aspect of the deal, having the capacity for a large amount of corporate events and being able to rake in a lot more money through those, simply because its the OS which is a more attractive proposition to large companies than UP.
So you have a world class venue served to you on a silver platter with extensive facilities, outstanding transport links and all paid for by the public, and you don't see any problem with it? What if it was handed to the Spuds?
West Ham weren't about to flood their area with 100,000 free tickets before either.
"We will cross-promote events – hockey, swimming, athletics, our supporters will get offered deals to go to those events, those sports that need a wider audience.' "
So to get even more into the stadium they will be giving away tickets to other events?
This needs much closer investing
But it's cheaper because West Ham have net zero stadium costs. They have that because the government determined to bung in 90%+ of the costs of converting the stadium for them. So unlike other clubs who have to be selective about where they market because it needs to bring in net income, West Ham have 20,000 seats that are costing them absolutely nothing, they can afford the risk. Notwithstanding, Kent now makes West Ham as accessible if not more accessible than the Valley, Gillingham, Millwall, Orient, so it is a natural and qualified target market.
Speaking of
bell endsrespected and award winning journalists, I've needed to visit the City of Manchester Stadium Wiki a few times, but yesterday was the first time I came across this little gem. Maybe most of you know about this but it made me laughDespite the seating residing within a continuous oval bowl, each side of the stadium is named in the manner of a traditional football ground. All sides were initially named by compass direction (North Stand and South Stand for the ends, East Stand and West Stand for the sides).[54] In February 2004, after a vote by fans, the West Stand was renamed the Colin Bell Stand in honour of the former player.[55] The vote was almost canceled (and the stand instead named after Joe Mercer) due to suspicions it had been hijacked by rival fans who wished to dub the renamed stand "The Bell End".
New seating structure announced here:
Hammers announce new Stadium upgrades
• New ‘West Ham’ seating design unveiled
• Club London lounges, pitch, seating bridge, Champions Place and Club Store will all be upgraded after summer events
• 20,000 new supporters now on Priority List for Season Tickets
• Fewer than 200 places left in entire Club London hospitality
West Ham United are delighted to announce that a stunning West Ham seating design is to be installed at the former Olympic Stadium.
Following extensive consultation with supporters, the seating layout will now be transformed to feature the unmistakable claret and blue colours of West Ham United, while preserving the iconic shard design synonymous with London 2012.
The enhancement – which will be paid for in full by West Ham – will also see the words ‘West Ham’ emblazoned across the ‘Kop’ style East Stand, which will be complemented by the instantly recognisable crossed hammer symbol, synonymous with the Hammers, appearing across the lower tier seats and both the North and South stands.
West Ham United Vice-Chairman Karren Brady said: “I am proud to unveil our final designs for the seating at our new home. My Board’s aim is always to exceed our supporters’ expectations. After detailed consultation with our Supporter Advisory Board and other fan groups it became clear that this matter was of paramount importance to them and reaffirmed our belief that we must work day and night to pursue a solution that they would be proud of.
“It is important to note that this transformation, along with several others, is being completely funded by West Ham United as another example of our commitment to pay our way at the new Stadium.
“We have always pledged that the new Stadium will look and feel like West Ham’s home and today’s announcement is further evidence that we have absolutely kept our promise.
“The improvements to the seating are just one of a number of crucial changes that our supporters will see taking shape following the end of the summer events, after which the Stadium will be handed back to the construction team in November. Only then, will the real ‘Westhamification’ take place.
“The day when we can finally unveil the finished Stadium to our fans is getting closer and I, for one, cannot wait.”
The Club are pleased to confirm that 20,000 new people have now joined the Priority List for Season Tickets at the new Stadium and the new-look seats will be just one of a number of major upgrades they will notice at the Hammers’ first game in their new home in August 2016.
The football requirements will also see an upgrade when the current turf is taken up to be replaced by a new world-class playing surface. West Ham United Head Groundsman Dougie Robertson will oversee the construction and development of the pitch over the winter to ensure it meets the extremely high standards he has set at the Boleyn Ground.
Away from the pitch, fewer than 200 places now remain in Club London and its stunning hospitality areas will be fitted out from scratch. Among them is The Boleyn bar, The Arnold Hills and The Academy, each with bespoke interiors inspired by the Club’s rich heritage.
Once complete, the VIP areas will offer unrivalled luxury and style to the thousands of supporters who have already secured their VIP seat.
They will set a new benchmark in hospitality in line with the Club’s spectacular designs revealed in September last year.
The new Official Stadium Store will also begin to be fitted out in January ahead of its opening next summer.
The huge, cutting edge new retail space will be nearly three times bigger than the current Stadium Store and will means tens of thousands of supporters can enjoy a wider choice of products and much quicker service every matchday.
There will also be a vast increase in West Ham branding around the Stadium to ensure it is a sea of claret and blue come the big kick-off next August.
The new West Ham United crest will have prominent placing throughout.
In addition to these significant developments, by the end of the year, the Club hope to confirm the final specifications of further ground-breaking marquee features, which are presently subject to planning consent.
Finally, the area that will host the new Champions Place stones and Champions Statue has also received planning permission for development, with work beginning in earnest in November.
Read more at http://www.whufc.com/News/Articles/2015/August/27-August/Hammers-announce-new-Stadium-upgrades#GEqlvVgxlOfWxdIY.99
Sounds very much like this is a stadium solely for West Ham and sod all the other supposed national / international events.
So the seating should not be changed now, right, to reflect West Ham's presence there as anchor concessionaire?
What do you want ? A club renting for 99 years, paying for the whole conversion, giving up the majority of income streams and having no club colours in there at all ? It's a bloody give and take.
The LLDC wanted someone to lease the OS for 99 years, so they needed to make this an attractive offer.
West Ham are contributing in relation to the number of days they will use the stadium. It can of course be argued whether they should have contributed more, but that is a question you have to put to the LLDC who will probably say they couldn't get more contribution upfront without the anchor concessionaire becoming disinterested in closing a deal altogether.
Your asking for a bigger contribution is understandable, but with that comes the question how much contribution upfront you can realistically demand from a club tying itself to that stadium for 99 years without having ownership of the place or benefitting from the staging of other events in there, events that will also improve from the various conversion works.
Most events need a roof, most events need seating that is close to the pitch.
If West Ham paid 50 million towards conversion would you be happy with West Ham getting a bigger share of the naming rights for the next 99 years as a result of that bigger contribution ?
My office only works Mon.-Fri. but I'm paying rent for the entire month! How can I tell my landlord that I will only be paying for the days I'm actually there and open for business? #smallbusinessambassador
Ta,
LoOkOuT
Only sorry that Millwall aren't playing in pink though.
- 99 year fully repairable lease with option to renew/extend/escape at xx years - any seat colour changes etc... fine but would need to be returned to original if lease not renewed.
- Rental of £5m pa - increases year on year linked to CPI or similar (that gets the original construction costs back over the lifetime of the lease)
- WH meet the full £170m costs of conversion with 75% of that covered by an interest free loan from LLDC only repayable out of proceeds above xxxm if/when club was sold or if lease not renewed or escape clause activated.
- No Stadium naming rights - it stays THE OLYMPIC STADIUM
The Stadium with the retail etc.. is then West Hams in full and any additional revenue generated from other uses would be theirs - with perhaps some copper plate deals for Athletics built in.
Edit: Plus West Ham meet the full match day running costs, police, security etc... like all other clubs have to.