FWIW. When the safety car came on, hamilton was crusing to a win. Verstappen took the opportunity to change tyres, so it was known if the race restarted, he would have an advantage. The big if for me is all those cars he had to overtake. If the rule is that they can go past so that he can race straight with Hamilton - well, the rules is the rules. Hamilton loses his 11 second lead and Verstappen is brought into his neck with better tyres and the rules say it's fair. But if everyone was supposd to hold position, and that is what happens in any other situation, that should have happened here. Hamilton was ahead and Verstappen had a lap to overtake a number of other cars and if it didn't happen, well, hamilton had won anyway. I'm guessing the second is the usual way these things get decided, and since Masi knew Verstappen had new tyres, his decision was to basically give the race and the championship to Verstappen. I'll go with everyone else here and say the most Mercedes should do is seek to overturn the result, and Hamilton will probably opt not to chase this, leaving Verstappen and the Orange army with a hugely tainted championship. But Formula 1 took another big hit with this. You set out the ground rules and stick with them. Once you change them to suit a TV finale, you have reduced the sport to a level of 'It's a Knockout' type circus. After years of criticising the people who run the sport I love, it has it's charm that the FIA have proved to be equally inept, but in my opinion, it sadly cost Hamilton a championship he had won. That's not sport - it's farce.
I used to enjoy watching F1 but this season is a new low in terms of the way it has been manipulated.
I don’t see how the result will be changed. The wording of the rules were justwishywashy enough for the FIA to claim it was ok. With this in mind, I hope Hamilton comes out and says he doesn’t want the title this way. Let Red Bull have the tarnished title and it’d cement his legend further.
Apologies for quoting myself, but I said this yesterday morning. I think it’s what will happen. Its a shame for Verstappen that this title will always be tarnished, but to be fair, it should never have been handed to him anyway.
The final race may be tarnished but the title won’t be. He won the most races, got the most pole positions and lead the most laps over the course of the season.
Question for those who watch F1 more than me, if they hadn't unlapped those 5 cars, given the cars usually let the race leaders past, was there any chance Verstappen could have caught Hamilton anyway, or was one lap/Hamilton having the clearer run just not long enough?
I don’t see how the result will be changed. The wording of the rules were justwishywashy enough for the FIA to claim it was ok. With this in mind, I hope Hamilton comes out and says he doesn’t want the title this way. Let Red Bull have the tarnished title and it’d cement his legend further.
Apologies for quoting myself, but I said this yesterday morning. I think it’s what will happen. Its a shame for Verstappen that this title will always be tarnished, but to be fair, it should never have been handed to him anyway.
The final race may be tarnished but the title won’t be. He won the most races, got the most pole positions and lead the most laps over the course of the season.
Except one of those wins was the farce at Spa and the other the nonsense one lap shoot out last weekend. If Spa had simply been called off as it should have been then Hamilton still wins the Championship.
It's impossible to say the title isn't tarnished when the winning margin is less than the points gifted to Max by ridiculous decisions.
Question for those who watch F1 more than me, if they hadn't unlapped those 5 cars, given the cars usually let the race leaders past, was there any chance Verstappen could have caught Hamilton anyway, or was one lap/Hamilton having the clearer run just not long enough?
You can never say never but Max would have been at least 5 car lengths back if not more so very very unlikely. By the end of the pit straight, Lewis would have had a comfortable enough lead to bring it home.
F1 doesn't deserve to be taken seriously if it bends its own rules to create drama rather than focus on competition. Hamilton has every right to feel cheated and the same would be true for Verstappen if it was the other way round.
The focus here seems to be on money and not integrity.
Question for those who watch F1 more than me, if they hadn't unlapped those 5 cars, given the cars usually let the race leaders past, was there any chance Verstappen could have caught Hamilton anyway, or was one lap/Hamilton having the clearer run just not long enough?
You can never say never but Max would have been at least 5 car lengths back if not more so very very unlikely. By the end of the pit straight, Lewis would have had a comfortable enough lead to bring it home.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
I’m waiting for Masi’s press conference where he explains his rationale for making these decisions. Given the impact they had, I don’t think that’s unreasonable for. And not an interview with a tame journalist - open to all the F1 press with the opportunity to ask questions.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
FWIW. When the safety car came on, hamilton was crusing to a win. Verstappen took the opportunity to change tyres, so it was known if the race restarted, he would have an advantage. The big if for me is all those cars he had to overtake. If the rule is that they can go past so that he can race straight with Hamilton - well, the rules is the rules. Hamilton loses his 11 second lead and Verstappen is brought into his neck with better tyres and the rules say it's fair. But if everyone was supposd to hold position, and that is what happens in any other situation, that should have happened here. Hamilton was ahead and Verstappen had a lap to overtake a number of other cars and if it didn't happen, well, hamilton had won anyway. I'm guessing the second is the usual way these things get decided, and since Masi knew Verstappen had new tyres, his decision was to basically give the race and the championship to Verstappen. I'll go with everyone else here and say the most Mercedes should do is seek to overturn the result, and Hamilton will probably opt not to chase this, leaving Verstappen and the Orange army with a hugely tainted championship. But Formula 1 took another big hit with this. You set out the ground rules and stick with them. Once you change them to suit a TV finale, you have reduced the sport to a level of 'It's a Knockout' type circus. After years of criticising the people who run the sport I love, it has it's charm that the FIA have proved to be equally inept, but in my opinion, it sadly cost Hamilton a championship he had won. That's not sport - it's farce.
What happened in terms of Verstappen being brought right up behind Hamilton by the safety car was not unusual. The rules allow for no cars to un-lap themselves, but what most commonly happens in a safety car situation is ALL lapped cars are allowed to un-lap themselves. That usually means the second place man is right behind first place man when the safety car peels in. Sometimes, one of them is on fresher tyres than the other by dint of being able to get a cheap pitstop under the safety cars, while the other did not, or could not, do so for whatever reason.
All that is within the rules as they currently stand, and shit luck as it was for Hamilton, thems the breaks until if/when someone changes the rules to not allow pitstops under the safety car (Which would seem a purer way to "neutralize" the race).
What was unusual (and I cannot recall this ever happening before) was the decision to a) allow only a select few cars to un-lap which at best is a bending of the rules based on semantics or at worst flat-out ignores the rules, and b) how quickly they got the safety car out of the way rather than completing an extra lap as would normally occur. That part does stink of manipulating things to get the final lap showdown. Even that wouldn't be so bad if both Hamilton and Verstappen had pitted and it was a more even playing but the tyre performance off-set made Hamilton a bit of a sitting duck, although I would say he could have done a slightly better job of defending - he'd been given a good example to follow by the way Perez held him up earlier in the race.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Who do you think would make a good replacement?
Jos Verstappen
Nah!! Go for Kimi. Can just imagine Horner screaming down the line at him and its either dead silent or all you can hear back is Kimi screaming, DRINK, WHERE'S MY DRINK!?!
Seriously think it should be an ex driver around before the current crop, no team affiliation post career. Someone along the lines of Olivier Panis.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Not sure that's needed - and I doubt many, if any, would want to take the job.
All that's needed is a person who understands motor racing, knows how to implement the rules consistently and who is strong enough to not buckle under pressure from team principals. Charlie Whiting was such a man.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Not sure that's needed - and I doubt many, if any, would want to take the job.
All that's needed is a person who understands motor racing, knows how to implement the rules consistently and who is strong enough to not buckle under pressure from team principals. Charlie Whiting was such a man.
I understand he's currently doing 4,000 rpm in his grave though.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Not sure that's needed - and I doubt many, if any, would want to take the job.
All that's needed is a person who understands motor racing, knows how to implement the rules consistently and who is strong enough to not buckle under pressure from team principals. Charlie Whiting was such a man.
I understand he's currently doing 4,000 rpm in his grave though.
Yes he died way before his time. Which is why I said 'was'.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Who do you think would make a good replacement?
Jos Verstappen
Wolff gets on the blower and Jos will head straight out the stewards room to right hand Susie Wolff.
FWIW. When the safety car came on, hamilton was crusing to a win. Verstappen took the opportunity to change tyres, so it was known if the race restarted, he would have an advantage. The big if for me is all those cars he had to overtake. If the rule is that they can go past so that he can race straight with Hamilton - well, the rules is the rules. Hamilton loses his 11 second lead and Verstappen is brought into his neck with better tyres and the rules say it's fair. But if everyone was supposd to hold position, and that is what happens in any other situation, that should have happened here. Hamilton was ahead and Verstappen had a lap to overtake a number of other cars and if it didn't happen, well, hamilton had won anyway. I'm guessing the second is the usual way these things get decided, and since Masi knew Verstappen had new tyres, his decision was to basically give the race and the championship to Verstappen. I'll go with everyone else here and say the most Mercedes should do is seek to overturn the result, and Hamilton will probably opt not to chase this, leaving Verstappen and the Orange army with a hugely tainted championship. But Formula 1 took another big hit with this. You set out the ground rules and stick with them. Once you change them to suit a TV finale, you have reduced the sport to a level of 'It's a Knockout' type circus. After years of criticising the people who run the sport I love, it has it's charm that the FIA have proved to be equally inept, but in my opinion, it sadly cost Hamilton a championship he had won. That's not sport - it's farce.
What happened in terms of Verstappen being brought right up behind Hamilton by the safety car was not unusual. The rules allow for no cars to un-lap themselves, but what most commonly happens in a safety car situation is ALL lapped cars are allowed to un-lap themselves. That usually means the second place man is right behind first place man when the safety car peels in. Sometimes, one of them is on fresher tyres than the other by dint of being able to get a cheap pitstop under the safety cars, while the other did not, or could not, do so for whatever reason.
All that is within the rules as they currently stand, and shit luck as it was for Hamilton, thems the breaks until if/when someone changes the rules to not allow pitstops under the safety car (Which would seem a purer way to "neutralize" the race).
What was unusual (and I cannot recall this ever happening before) was the decision to a) allow only a select few cars to un-lap which at best is a bending of the rules based on semantics or at worst flat-out ignores the rules, and b) how quickly they got the safety car out of the way rather than completing an extra lap as would normally occur. That part does stink of manipulating things to get the final lap showdown. Even that wouldn't be so bad if both Hamilton and Verstappen had pitted and it was a more even playing but the tyre performance off-set made Hamilton a bit of a sitting duck, although I would say he could have done a slightly better job of defending - he'd been given a good example to follow by the way Perez held him up earlier in the race.
In the context of a safety car deployment being generally unfair to those who have made racing gains, I think not being allowed to pit also potentially amplifies the negative impact for some, say if a driver was about to pit and had a window to do so that the safety car has taken away.
It would seem to me less unfair if everyone is allowed to pit with prior track position re-established when the safety car departs.
Although that still doesn't deal with the 'unfairness' of a car that has stayed out long and gets a free pit without losing time or track position, a la Verstappen under the red flag in Saudi Arabia.
I guess there is no way to do this fairly and speedily without unduly impacting someone. Maybe they could let each car start (standing) from the grid released at time intervals as they were prior to the safety car being deployed, no tyre changes, lapped cars starting from the pits - similar to the impact of the virtual safety car other than being allowed to pit under that. Presumably there's a good reason why this can't happen, time maybe. And I can see that the safety car is a bit of a joker that adds to the overall spectacle and is an element of uncertainty in a sport that has often been boring and predictable.
It's difficult, but what's for sure is that once they have established a 'least worst' set of rules in an already complicated sport they need to apply them.
On the Perez analogy, which is a good point, I suppose a key difference is that Hamilton had a bit time to play with and couldn't afford to, and didn't need to, take any undue risks when passing SP. On the Netflix lap Verstappen simply had to get it done, the tyre differential was I think greater than with LH/SP, there was no downside to a collision and he's a nutter.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Not sure that's needed - and I doubt many, if any, would want to take the job.
All that's needed is a person who understands motor racing, knows how to implement the rules consistently and who is strong enough to not buckle under pressure from team principals. Charlie Whiting was such a man.
Motor racing is a sport where the rules needn't be too complicated. They have to be implemented consistently and fairly. The person who rules at a race would be somebody who knows what it is like to be in a race car and probably somebody who has shown they are not controversial in their opinions.
There have been some moments of crazy decisions like Spa where there was a race result without any racing. That can't happen. Drivers who adopt a yield or crash style need to be stamped on as it will only get worse. Short term excitement will spoil the sport long term. But the line has to be sufficiently high where you don't make the sport sterile.
It is too late to change the season, but all of the teams have to let F1 that this is not acceptable for next season. They should also demand Masi goes and get a respected ex driver to do that job.
Not sure that's needed - and I doubt many, if any, would want to take the job.
All that's needed is a person who understands motor racing, knows how to implement the rules consistently and who is strong enough to not buckle under pressure from team principals. Charlie Whiting was such a man.
There have been some moments of crazy decisions like Spa where there was a race result without any racing. That can't happen.
They did that just so they didn’t have to refund sponsors and punters. Absolutely disgusting behaviour that they pretty much got away with.
Comments
It's impossible to say the title isn't tarnished when the winning margin is less than the points gifted to Max by ridiculous decisions.
The focus here seems to be on money and not integrity.
Seriously think it should be an ex driver around before the current crop, no team affiliation post career. Someone along the lines of Olivier Panis.
Which is why I said 'was'.
It would seem to me less unfair if everyone is allowed to pit with prior track position re-established when the safety car departs.
Although that still doesn't deal with the 'unfairness' of a car that has stayed out long and gets a free pit without losing time or track position, a la Verstappen under the red flag in Saudi Arabia.
I guess there is no way to do this fairly and speedily without unduly impacting someone. Maybe they could let each car start (standing) from the grid released at time intervals as they were prior to the safety car being deployed, no tyre changes, lapped cars starting from the pits - similar to the impact of the virtual safety car other than being allowed to pit under that. Presumably there's a good reason why this can't happen, time maybe. And I can see that the safety car is a bit of a joker that adds to the overall spectacle and is an element of uncertainty in a sport that has often been boring and predictable.
It's difficult, but what's for sure is that once they have established a 'least worst' set of rules in an already complicated sport they need to apply them.
On the Perez analogy, which is a good point, I suppose a key difference is that Hamilton had a bit time to play with and couldn't afford to, and didn't need to, take any undue risks when passing SP. On the Netflix lap Verstappen simply had to get it done, the tyre differential was I think greater than with LH/SP, there was no downside to a collision and he's a nutter.
New Years honour list for services to Motor Racing.
There have been some moments of crazy decisions like Spa where there was a race result without any racing. That can't happen. Drivers who adopt a yield or crash style need to be stamped on as it will only get worse. Short term excitement will spoil the sport long term. But the line has to be sufficiently high where you don't make the sport sterile.
He couldn’t pass the Dutchie on the left hand side.
Max Verstappen will be the chosen keynote speaker at the 2022 Global Gynaecologists Conference due to being the Biggest C*** in the World.