So I have no plan to go to the game anyway as have family plans but can someone clarify for me if I would be allowed to if my plans change on the day ?
If I go, am I allowed to buy a programme, have a beer at H/T and wear non monochrome clothing ?
Should people not be able to do what they want to without a debate around who is right or wrong ? If you want to go then go, if it is upsetting to attend then don't go. If you want to hurl a stuffed badger onto pitch feel free and if you want to get book a table in a lounge crack on.
All these threads - "what can I do on Saturdays now", "This is the worst I've seen it in 249 years", "I'll never eat a Robin in the ground again".....just do what you want to do.
If the overall sentiment is for or against then it will show over time. What are the other Charlton fan boards trying to organise out of interest ?
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
So I have no plan to go to the game anyway as have family plans but can someone clarify for me if I would be allowed to if my plans change on the day ?
If I go, am I allowed to buy a programme, have a beer at H/T and wear non monochrome clothing ?
Should people not be able to do what they want to without a debate around who is right or wrong ? If you want to go then go, if it is upsetting to attend then don't go. If you want to hurl a stuffed badger onto pitch feel free and if you want to get book a table in a lounge crack on.
All these threads - "what can I do on Saturdays now", "This is the worst I've seen it in 249 years", "I'll never eat a Robin in the ground again".....just do what you want to do.
If the overall sentiment is for or against then it will show over time. What are the other Charlton fan boards trying to organise out of interest ?
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
You summed it up "do what you want to do" - if you want to join in, do, if you don't then don't.
"Until the owners value me and my dosh it's going elsewhere."
Football supporters are just a revenue source, alongside merchandising, food retailing and advertising. For one brief moment we Charlton fans were valued by the board, this was because they were skint and needed us a source to raise capital. This board, and most boards do not need us for capital raising and therefore apart from being customers our input is not required or desired.
We need to forget about the past and get real, stupid ideas like the Pie Cam, the Sofa and the cheerleaders indicate what this board think about our intellectual capabilities, they DONT care what we think or want, and I fear that boycotting aspects of the club just harms ourselves. Most of us have already stumped up the cash in season tickets so there is limited financial penalty and I cant see attitudes at board level changing soon.
The only time that we are important is at season ticket renewal time, and a special offer or two will normally bring us back renewing. If no one renewed that would cause concern at board level, but most of us would probably not support a boycott for fear of losing the cheaper earlybird deals.
I go back to the Sell out Park days. Supermarket end. It never felt this bad then. I am unsure that a boycot would achieve anything. Not using the food concessions may be Rolys master plan and we could be doing the club a favour. They want to regain control of the food and drinks and this could help them by killing off the current concession owners revenue. Mad I know, but not as mad as he may be?
I've stayed away this season so far due partly to work /home circumstances and partly due to lack of enthusiasm as I've kept in touch with goings on at my once great club by this forum and the comments I read it's sounds like it's been been a real chore for those brave souls who have been going but I get the feeling rd does not give a flying toss what anyone thinks and as for his puppet she will also have her services terminated if she ever speaks out of turn Do whatever you all think is right for yourselves but I doubt it will ever change anything because the man is a total cock
It's all about finding out what makes him tick,what he's in this for and what will damage him,which I agree is difficult. Him giving Meire the elbow is a start, and as I touched on in another thread,she hates bad press, and tries to counteract it in her own silly way at any given oppurtunity.
We need to try something and not sit back and let this great club go down in vain.
So I have no plan to go to the game anyway as have family plans but can someone clarify for me if I would be allowed to if my plans change on the day ?
If I go, am I allowed to buy a programme, have a beer at H/T and wear non monochrome clothing ?
Should people not be able to do what they want to without a debate around who is right or wrong ? If you want to go then go, if it is upsetting to attend then don't go. If you want to hurl a stuffed badger onto pitch feel free and if you want to get book a table in a lounge crack on.
All these threads - "what can I do on Saturdays now", "This is the worst I've seen it in 249 years", "I'll never eat a Robin in the ground again".....just do what you want to do.
If the overall sentiment is for or against then it will show over time. What are the other Charlton fan boards trying to organise out of interest ?
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
it has been my belief for some time that KM's determination not to talk to the Trust was for this very reason.
She even mentioned it at Bromley when she brought up the meeting at Woolwich.
I am not advocating doing nothing but I do think that she and RD are so arrogant that the more the Trust tries to organise things to oppose them the more they will exclude the Trust.
We need to remember that RD has hundreds of millions of pounds; they have got the losses down to a few million quid a year; they, clearly, don't care what we think; they believe they know what they are doing; our match day ticket and season ticket revenue makes almost no difference in the grand scheme of things.
If they choose RD and KM can carry on like they are for well over a decade (subject to his health - assuming he doesn't leave the club and his money to a relative that decides to let KM keep running it).
I don't know what the answer is but I do agree with PL54 in that we have seen nothing to believe that RD and KM will be easily bullied and won't retaliate.
I have followed Charlton since my Dad first took me as a Nine year old(early fifties) I had a Season Ticket from the mid Seventies,but this is the first year I have not renewed,admittedly finances come in to it. But with good owners and 70% British Players and a Manager who knows the Championship,I would willing renew even in League 2 or Conference,or what the league is called. You can all have a go at me,throwing dummy out of pram,deserter,ect but sorry that the way I feel.
Supporting the team is supporting the Belgians. It is his team.
He may own it but it is not his club. It is mine and ours. I have supported the club since 1964, a lot longer than Roland Rat has owned my club. He is destroying everything I once believed in and felt proud to be part of, yet it will always be MY team, not his. Whatever happens this emotion will remain with me until I depart this earth. I just hope we get him and his entourage out of here and get back to the good times before that happens. And yes, I have joined all the protest sites both on Charlton Life and other sites.
So I have no plan to go to the game anyway as have family plans but can someone clarify for me if I would be allowed to if my plans change on the day ?
If I go, am I allowed to buy a programme, have a beer at H/T and wear non monochrome clothing ?
Should people not be able to do what they want to without a debate around who is right or wrong ? If you want to go then go, if it is upsetting to attend then don't go. If you want to hurl a stuffed badger onto pitch feel free and if you want to get book a table in a lounge crack on.
All these threads - "what can I do on Saturdays now", "This is the worst I've seen it in 249 years", "I'll never eat a Robin in the ground again".....just do what you want to do.
If the overall sentiment is for or against then it will show over time. What are the other Charlton fan boards trying to organise out of interest ?
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
it has been my belief for some time that KM's determination not to talk to the Trust was for this very reason.
She even mentioned it at Bromley when she brought up the meeting at Woolwich.
I am not advocating doing nothing but I do think that she and RD are so arrogant that the more the Trust tries to organise things to oppose them the more they will exclude the Trust.
We need to remember that RD has hundreds of millions of pounds; they have got the losses down to a few million quid a year; they, clearly, don't care what we think; they believe they know what they are doing; our match day ticket and season ticket revenue makes almost no difference in the grand scheme of things.
If they choose RD and KM can carry on like they are for well over a decade (subject to his health - assuming he doesn't leave the club and his money to a relative that decides to let KM keep running it).
I don't know what the answer is but I do agree with PL54 in that we have seen nothing to believe that RD and KM will be easily bullied and won't retaliate.
The matchday revenue was half the club's income - excluding receipts from player sales - the highest proportion in the Championship in 2013/14. So I can't agree that it makes "almost no difference in the grand scheme of things". Indeed if that were true there would be no merit in making some of the tiny cost savings KM has instituted - they would become too trivial to matter either.
They have not got the operating loss down, they have increased it. See Saturday's programme. If they lose the £4-£5m Championship clubs receive from TV and the solidarity payment, the revenue from fans will be practically all they have, bar selling players. Other commercial income was £1.5m in 13/14 from memory and pretty obviously it hinges on having an audience. You can only sell each player once.
None of this makes any business sense unless you believe that the business is developing and trading players - and can be sustained entirely on that basis. But simply being in League One - then Two - will damage that too.
So I have no plan to go to the game anyway as have family plans but can someone clarify for me if I would be allowed to if my plans change on the day ?
If I go, am I allowed to buy a programme, have a beer at H/T and wear non monochrome clothing ?
Should people not be able to do what they want to without a debate around who is right or wrong ? If you want to go then go, if it is upsetting to attend then don't go. If you want to hurl a stuffed badger onto pitch feel free and if you want to get book a table in a lounge crack on.
All these threads - "what can I do on Saturdays now", "This is the worst I've seen it in 249 years", "I'll never eat a Robin in the ground again".....just do what you want to do.
If the overall sentiment is for or against then it will show over time. What are the other Charlton fan boards trying to organise out of interest ?
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
it has been my belief for some time that KM's determination not to talk to the Trust was for this very reason.
She even mentioned it at Bromley when she brought up the meeting at Woolwich.
I am not advocating doing nothing but I do think that she and RD are so arrogant that the more the Trust tries to organise things to oppose them the more they will exclude the Trust.
We need to remember that RD has hundreds of millions of pounds; they have got the losses down to a few million quid a year; they, clearly, don't care what we think; they believe they know what they are doing; our match day ticket and season ticket revenue makes almost no difference in the grand scheme of things.
If they choose RD and KM can carry on like they are for well over a decade (subject to his health - assuming he doesn't leave the club and his money to a relative that decides to let KM keep running it).
I don't know what the answer is but I do agree with PL54 in that we have seen nothing to believe that RD and KM will be easily bullied and won't retaliate.
The matchday revenue was half the club's income - excluding receipts from player sales - the highest proportion in the Championship in 2013/14. So I can't agree that it makes "almost no difference in the grand scheme of things". Indeed if that were true there would be no merit in making some of the tiny cost savings KM has instituted - they would become too trivial to matter either.
They have not got the operating loss down, they have increased it. See Saturday's programme. If they lose the £4-£5m Championship clubs receive from TV and the solidarity payment, the revenue from fans will be practically all they have, bar selling players. Other commercial income was £1.5m in 13/14 from memory and pretty obviously it hinges on having an audience. You can only sell each player once.
None of this makes any business sense unless you believe that the business is developing and trading players - and can be sustained entirely on that basis. But simply being in League One - then Two - will damage that too.
Problem with this, Rick,is that he could just as easily be thinking 'well my model does not work in the Championship, but I am not going to change it so let us see if it works in League One', where wages will be lower.
He has no attachment to the club nor interest in its past or probably its longer term future. None of us can know what goes on in his mind, but we have ample evidence that his business model is most like that of Crewe Alexandra, when they existed entirely by nurturing and selling players, when they were in league 1 and 2 mostly.
Boycotts are all very well and good (and I take it you mean fans not turning up for the game, and not Geoffrey, because his straight-talking littered with occasional complete nonsense could come in quite handy here!) if you are Newcastle United but we are not. Our fans, of which there are several pockets I wouldn't leave in charge of a jelly, couldn't do it right, simple as that! It'll result in 80 chavs in shellsuits standing outside the West Stand reception entrance desperately trying to start a sing-song that doesn't get any attention from those other fans drifting in and out, much let alone the national press and through that the club, which is what you are looking for.
I'm also not in the camp of being told "the lads need our support whatever" either. That was utterly dreadful on Saturday, a highest order of incompetence and lack of effort, notably from two players named here, Morgan Fox and Johnnie Jackson. Booing three minutes in? Absolutely not? Hurling abuse at players very first sign of trouble? No. But when you are served up 180 minutes at home, against two average sides, of dreadful, heartless football from eleven so-called professionals then they deserve a bit of stick and fans not turning up in their numbers should send a message to them too. Outside of Patrick Bauer the other 10 who started didn't want to know on Saturday and all standing around in the centre circle at full time feeling sorry for themselves made it even more pathetic. That was all for show, lot of huff and puff but no actual fight or football intelligence.
Quite hilarious that all week long we heard nothing but misdirection from both the club and Luzon over the 'injury crisis' and how badly it was hampering us to even compete in a game against a team in the relegation zone, at home. Then come Saturday we have a fully fit Tony Watt and Simon Makeionek start up front together and they proceed to produce a fine exploit in how to make each other's lives twice as hard whilst not being able to hit the side of a barn door if their children's lives depended on it. Yet when Gareth McAleney came on I saw more life from him in those 25 minutes than those two farts all game! Forced the first serious save from Button most of the afternoon and from a tight angle. Watt meanwhile turned a six-yard slot into the bottom corner into a test on the sturdiness of the billboards once again........twice, in the same f***ing few minutes!
You don't win anything with kids, and you don't win anything with performances from so-called seasoned, experienced pros like that either! I can forgive the kids, they are still learning and progressing, the others have no excuse! Yes, we know the club is being badly run but didn't Jacko and Watt sit with The Wicked Witch of the south-East and the new gaffer at the fans forum a few years back and tell us all how great they were?
Yes, we know the club is being badly run but didn't Jacko and Watt sit with The Wicked Witch of the south-East and the new gaffer at the fans forum a few years back and tell us all how great they were?
Yes at a VIP meeting. But what else were they supposed to do ? Refuse ?
Anyway, I wouldn't say they said how great the owners were. Watt said very little & Jacko spoke as the captain of the club.
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
Dialogue, what dialogue is this then ?
RD & Meire will never talk to the fans and certainly not the Trust, because their only plan is to import players on the cheap. Develop players through the academy and sell them.
They have no football ambition and they cannot demonstrate that they have.
If we ever get new decent owners, they should appreciate that the Trust had done their best, to save the club from this fool.
Yes, we know the club is being badly run but didn't Jacko and Watt sit with The Wicked Witch of the south-East and the new gaffer at the fans forum a few years back and tell us all how great they were?
Yes at a VIP meeting. But what else were they supposed to do ? Refuse ?
Anyway, I wouldn't say they said how great the owners were. Watt said very little & Jacko spoke as the captain of the club.
They could, and to be fair my point carried more with how poor their performances were on Saturday.
As has been said many times now. Km made a point of not being interested in talking to the trust before Woolwich, and once it was announced she launched into a ridiculous pr campaign.
Her comments afterwards were either based on very ill informed version of events, based either on ignorance or intent to divide fans.
As has been said many times now. Km made a point of not being interested in talking to the trust before Woolwich, and once it was announced she launched into a ridiculous pr campaign.
Her comments afterwards were either based on very ill informed version of events, based either on ignorance or intent to divide fans.
Agree. Any CEO who in effect says they have such little respect for long-standing customers (and that's what they see us as) really has no interest in having any form of dialogue with them. Besides, even she cannot be so stupid as to think it would be an easy meeting
So I have no plan to go to the game anyway as have family plans but can someone clarify for me if I would be allowed to if my plans change on the day ?
If I go, am I allowed to buy a programme, have a beer at H/T and wear non monochrome clothing ?
Should people not be able to do what they want to without a debate around who is right or wrong ? If you want to go then go, if it is upsetting to attend then don't go. If you want to hurl a stuffed badger onto pitch feel free and if you want to get book a table in a lounge crack on.
All these threads - "what can I do on Saturdays now", "This is the worst I've seen it in 249 years", "I'll never eat a Robin in the ground again".....just do what you want to do.
If the overall sentiment is for or against then it will show over time. What are the other Charlton fan boards trying to organise out of interest ?
In addition, in my opinion, if The Trust endorses or pushes any form of protest then they can say goodbye to dialogue with the club for pretty much ever, survey results or not.
it has been my belief for some time that KM's determination not to talk to the Trust was for this very reason.
She even mentioned it at Bromley when she brought up the meeting at Woolwich.
I am not advocating doing nothing but I do think that she and RD are so arrogant that the more the Trust tries to organise things to oppose them the more they will exclude the Trust.
We need to remember that RD has hundreds of millions of pounds; they have got the losses down to a few million quid a year; they, clearly, don't care what we think; they believe they know what they are doing; our match day ticket and season ticket revenue makes almost no difference in the grand scheme of things.
If they choose RD and KM can carry on like they are for well over a decade (subject to his health - assuming he doesn't leave the club and his money to a relative that decides to let KM keep running it).
I don't know what the answer is but I do agree with PL54 in that we have seen nothing to believe that RD and KM will be easily bullied and won't retaliate.
The matchday revenue was half the club's income - excluding receipts from player sales - the highest proportion in the Championship in 2013/14. So I can't agree that it makes "almost no difference in the grand scheme of things". Indeed if that were true there would be no merit in making some of the tiny cost savings KM has instituted - they would become too trivial to matter either.
They have not got the operating loss down, they have increased it. See Saturday's programme. If they lose the £4-£5m Championship clubs receive from TV and the solidarity payment, the revenue from fans will be practically all they have, bar selling players. Other commercial income was £1.5m in 13/14 from memory and pretty obviously it hinges on having an audience. You can only sell each player once.
None of this makes any business sense unless you believe that the business is developing and trading players - and can be sustained entirely on that basis. But simply being in League One - then Two - will damage that too.
My point about the losses and the match day income are still valid. If the club makes a loss of £5m a season, and I think it was nearer £3m this season (irrespective as to what TV money is) then taking about half of his wealth he can run/fund the club for fifty years.
There is nothing we can do by keeping our money in our pockets that can force him to change for financial reasons. The way he is running the club we have no idea what his motivation is and if it's not financial then he doesn't need our money.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the stomach or the time left on this planet to wage a 50 year boycott.
As I've said I'm not advocating doing nothing but simply turning off our spending isn't going to be enough and I believe that RD and KM are too arrogant to back down if we pi$$ them off.
how much of that wealth is disposable cash that can be diverted to losses though, its ridiculous to assume a large percentage of it is available as such. I am also not sure your numbers are right if the losses are static the number should be higher than £3m, happy to be corrected though.
In my opinion if a protest is the way to go, a show of numbers before the match outside the North Stand before the game say 2:30, and all joining the queues just before kick off, black and white stuff, coupled with a 'hunger' strike, would be a good way to start.
I am not comfortable with demoing outside the West stand, personally.
how much of that wealth is disposable cash that can be diverted to losses though, its ridiculous to assume a large percentage of it is available as such. I am also not sure your numbers are right if the losses are static the number should be higher than £3m, happy to be corrected though.
In my opinion if a protest is the way to go, a show of numbers before the match outside the North Stand before the game say 2:30, and all joining the queues just before kick off, black and white stuff, coupled with a 'hunger' strike, would be a good way to start.
I am not comfortable with demoing outside the West stand, personally.
A protest outside the West Stand is the only logical place as it is near the press,directors entrance, also outside the North Stand is on the public highway & could cause problems with the police.
Comments
Football supporters are just a revenue source, alongside merchandising, food retailing and advertising. For one brief moment we Charlton fans were valued by the board, this was because they were skint and needed us a source to raise capital. This board, and most boards do not need us for capital raising and therefore apart from being customers our input is not required or desired.
We need to forget about the past and get real, stupid ideas like the Pie Cam, the Sofa and the cheerleaders indicate what this board think about our intellectual capabilities, they DONT care what we think or want, and I fear that boycotting aspects of the club just harms ourselves. Most of us have already stumped up the cash in season tickets so there is limited financial penalty and I cant see attitudes at board level changing soon.
The only time that we are important is at season ticket renewal time, and a special offer or two will normally bring us back renewing. If no one renewed that would cause concern at board level, but most of us would probably not support a boycott for fear of losing the cheaper earlybird deals.
Do whatever you all think is right for yourselves but I doubt it will ever change anything because the man is a total cock
Him giving Meire the elbow is a start, and as I touched on in another thread,she hates bad press, and tries to counteract it in her own silly way at any given oppurtunity.
We need to try something and not sit back and let this great club go down in vain.
She even mentioned it at Bromley when she brought up the meeting at Woolwich.
I am not advocating doing nothing but I do think that she and RD are so arrogant that the more the Trust tries to organise things to oppose them the more they will exclude the Trust.
We need to remember that RD has hundreds of millions of pounds; they have got the losses down to a few million quid a year; they, clearly, don't care what we think; they believe they know what they are doing; our match day ticket and season ticket revenue makes almost no difference in the grand scheme of things.
If they choose RD and KM can carry on like they are for well over a decade (subject to his health - assuming he doesn't leave the club and his money to a relative that decides to let KM keep running it).
I don't know what the answer is but I do agree with PL54 in that we have seen nothing to believe that RD and KM will be easily bullied and won't retaliate.
You can all have a go at me,throwing dummy out of pram,deserter,ect but sorry that the way I feel.
Anyone trying to stop me getting into The Valley on matchday, better have a bloody good dentist...
Att: 47,427
Enough said.
They have not got the operating loss down, they have increased it. See Saturday's programme. If they lose the £4-£5m Championship clubs receive from TV and the solidarity payment, the revenue from fans will be practically all they have, bar selling players. Other commercial income was £1.5m in 13/14 from memory and pretty obviously it hinges on having an audience. You can only sell each player once.
None of this makes any business sense unless you believe that the business is developing and trading players - and can be sustained entirely on that basis. But simply being in League One - then Two - will damage that too.
He has no attachment to the club nor interest in its past or probably its longer term future. None of us can know what goes on in his mind, but we have ample evidence that his business model is most like that of Crewe Alexandra, when they existed entirely by nurturing and selling players, when they were in league 1 and 2 mostly.
Desperate.
I'm also not in the camp of being told "the lads need our support whatever" either. That was utterly dreadful on Saturday, a highest order of incompetence and lack of effort, notably from two players named here, Morgan Fox and Johnnie Jackson. Booing three minutes in? Absolutely not? Hurling abuse at players very first sign of trouble? No. But when you are served up 180 minutes at home, against two average sides, of dreadful, heartless football from eleven so-called professionals then they deserve a bit of stick and fans not turning up in their numbers should send a message to them too. Outside of Patrick Bauer the other 10 who started didn't want to know on Saturday and all standing around in the centre circle at full time feeling sorry for themselves made it even more pathetic. That was all for show, lot of huff and puff but no actual fight or football intelligence.
Quite hilarious that all week long we heard nothing but misdirection from both the club and Luzon over the 'injury crisis' and how badly it was hampering us to even compete in a game against a team in the relegation zone, at home. Then come Saturday we have a fully fit Tony Watt and Simon Makeionek start up front together and they proceed to produce a fine exploit in how to make each other's lives twice as hard whilst not being able to hit the side of a barn door if their children's lives depended on it. Yet when Gareth McAleney came on I saw more life from him in those 25 minutes than those two farts all game! Forced the first serious save from Button most of the afternoon and from a tight angle. Watt meanwhile turned a six-yard slot into the bottom corner into a test on the sturdiness of the billboards once again........twice, in the same f***ing few minutes!
You don't win anything with kids, and you don't win anything with performances from so-called seasoned, experienced pros like that either! I can forgive the kids, they are still learning and progressing, the others have no excuse! Yes, we know the club is being badly run but didn't Jacko and Watt sit with The Wicked Witch of the south-East and the new gaffer at the fans forum a few years back and tell us all how great they were?
Anyway, I wouldn't say they said how great the owners were. Watt said very little & Jacko spoke as the captain of the club.
RD & Meire will never talk to the fans and certainly not the Trust, because their only plan is to import players on the cheap. Develop players through the academy and sell them.
They have no football ambition and they cannot demonstrate that they have.
If we ever get new decent owners, they should appreciate that the Trust had done their best, to save the club from this fool.
Her comments afterwards were either based on very ill informed version of events, based either on ignorance or intent to divide fans.
There is nothing we can do by keeping our money in our pockets that can force him to change for financial reasons. The way he is running the club we have no idea what his motivation is and if it's not financial then he doesn't need our money.
I don't know about anyone else but I don't have the stomach or the time left on this planet to wage a 50 year boycott.
As I've said I'm not advocating doing nothing but simply turning off our spending isn't going to be enough and I believe that RD and KM are too arrogant to back down if we pi$$ them off.
In my opinion if a protest is the way to go, a show of numbers before the match outside the North Stand before the game say 2:30, and all joining the queues just before kick off, black and white stuff, coupled with a 'hunger' strike, would be a good way to start.
I am not comfortable with demoing outside the West stand, personally.