It was interesting that we were playing Ipswich. They were clearly their manager’s team. That is a team built around what the manager feels are the attributes needed to do well in the division. Now, I’m not saying I am a fan of McCarthy, but he is no mug, and he believes a physical, athletic presence is needed through the team. 8 of their players looked like the same bloke FFS. It was certainly too much for us on Saturday. Other managers will have different plans and I would prefer a more footballing approach, but my point is a Charlton manager can never plan as he has to make the most out of what he is given and he doesn’t get long enough either.
I legged it five minutes before the end of the match so I could jump on a train to Dulwich Hamlet.
On the way, I got chatting to an Ipswich fan - works for the club, too. We were chatting about McCarthy, and I said how he'd always been a friend of Charlton (still living in Bromley and all that).
Apparently McCarthy's influence runs through all levels of Ipswich - when he took over, he got all the club staff together with the players, and made it very clear to his squad that these people's jobs depended on their attitudes and performances.
McCarthy's football is clearly designed to be more effective than artistic, but it works. And he has the power to make it work. How we could do with a Mick McCarthy at Charlton - but under the current regime, are more likely to get a powerless Mickey Mouse.
Precisely ,....and how better a message than boycott? KM will be on the blower later "Yeah a fair few held up some posters in the second minute but still cheered the team on and clapped them off so Operation clusterfuck is still well on track my dear leader as the mugs will still turn up next game."
A few tame protests will make fuck all difference to Roland....a bloke who won't even afford fans the courtesy of attending to see his experiment going pear shaped. Liege fans stormed his office and it didn't make a jot of difference.
Dialogue via the Trust and tame protests will not make any difference. If you are genuinely unhappy with the strategy and running of the club then boycott home games.... nothing else with have any meaningful impact and we'll continue to slide.
The protests are still in their 'spreading the word' stage so a boycott will not meet that aim. After the protest today the guy in front of me turned and asked what it was about. He now knows but had I boycotted the match he most likely would not. Once the word has spread sufficiently then a boycott MAY work.
When handing out leaflets today I was surprised by how many fans asked what it's all about. I was surprised how many did not know. If nothing else, today's protest will have got the message out to the masses.
I reckon about 6,000 home fans
If there are the best part of 3k in the away end I estimate about 8 or 9 k in the home ends.
Do you mean the home end? What about the sides? There is so much ''bigging up'' on this subject by any perspective. Apart from the North End the whole ''protest'' was a fiasco. Hundreds of supporters were refusing the flyers in Floyd Road, not forgetting those who screwed them up and threw them away. Is it not time to ''get real''?
The North End is otherwise known as the Covered End.
That's what I was thinking, even North Stand (just) as that is the "official" name but north end ?
I think the only error is the black and white theme - if everybody had held up a luminous yellow poster it would have made much more of an impact and if the cause was about spending more on championship know how then all the better still.
Precisely ,....and how better a message than boycott? KM will be on the blower later "Yeah a fair few held up some posters in the second minute but still cheered the team on and clapped them off so Operation clusterfuck is still well on track my dear leader as the mugs will still turn up next game."
A few tame protests will make fuck all difference to Roland....a bloke who won't even afford fans the courtesy of attending to see his experiment going pear shaped. Liege fans stormed his office and it didn't make a jot of difference.
Dialogue via the Trust and tame protests will not make any difference. If you are genuinely unhappy with the strategy and running of the club then boycott home games.... nothing else with have any meaningful impact and we'll continue to slide.
The protests are still in their 'spreading the word' stage so a boycott will not meet that aim. After the protest today the guy in front of me turned and asked what it was about. He now knows but had I boycotted the match he most likely would not. Once the word has spread sufficiently then a boycott MAY work.
When handing out leaflets today I was surprised by how many fans asked what it's all about. I was surprised how many did not know. If nothing else, today's protest will have got the message out to the masses.
As I was buying a VOTV a group of lads walked by & I heard one say " I wonder what those leaflets are about" so I turned & said well if you take one you may find out. Well done to all who made the effort to give them out but I feel some lacked a bit of oomph. While some were actively announcing what they had, others stood silently
What's the actual attendance. Looks on TV as if it has to be under 10,000
I reckon about 6,000 home fans
If there are the best part of 3k in the away end I estimate about 8 or 9 k in the home ends.
Do you mean the home end? What about the sides? There is so much ''bigging up'' on this subject by any perspective. Apart from the North End the whole ''protest'' was a fiasco. Hundreds of supporters were refusing the flyers in Floyd Road, not forgetting those who screwed them up and threw them away. Is it not time to ''get real''?
The North End is otherwise known as the Covered End.
That's what I was thinking, even North Stand (just) as that is the "official" name but north end ?
Give him a break he's still mourning losing 3-0 to Preston!
So, this estimates the Charlton fans protesting at 70%. The Ipswich report said 80%. I reckon about 50%.
Whichever way you look at it, and acknowledging that many Charlton fans either refused or threw away a poster, that is an almighty kick in the metaphoric bollocks for KM.
Add to that the 3000 stay-aways and non-renewals and you have a massive vote of no-confidence in the club leadership.
Even if you don't personally support the protests, I cannot for the life of me see how any Charlton fan can justifiably claim that the protesters are in a minority. Get real. Do the sums.
In any other business the Board would be sacking the CEO. How long can Roland keep KM as CEO when she has so demonstrably lost the confidence of her paying punters?
So, this estimates the Charlton fans protesting at 70%. The Ipswich report said 80%. I reckon about 50%.
Whichever way you look at it, and acknowledging that many Charlton fans either refused or threw away a poster, that is an almighty kick in the metaphoric bollocks for KM.
Add to that the 3000 stay-aways and non-renewals and you have a massive vote of no-confidence in the club leadership.
Even if you don't personally support the protests, I cannot for the life of me see how any Charlton fan can justifiably claim that the protesters are in a minority. Get real. Do the sums.
In any other business the Board would be sacking the CEO. How long can Roland keep KM as CEO when she has so demonstrably lost the confidence of her paying punters?
At some stage, RD will hold KM accountable and she may well get the push. However, that does not necessarily fill me with joy as he has not exactly shown great acumen in finding replacements for people that he has sacked.
Ultimately, RD is the problem - it does not, and will not, matter who is sitting in the CEO seat. We are in an autocracy ... nothing anyone says or does will change anything. It is only when RD himself decides to change that we will see any movement or benefit.
Hence, the need to continue with '2%' and 'Black and White' and any other worthwhile initiatives that we can develop. Autocracies are rarely good for anyone even, on occasion, the autocrat himself.
I am not confident that we have any chance of moving RD at all - however, I'd rather try than sit back and do nothing whilst my club tips into the abyss.
What you say is probably true, but the bloke doesn’t even watch our games. When the general is hidden away in a bunker, you have to go for the next one down. If she resigned, it would have some impact on him. If she has more control than you suggest, we still have reason to aim our protestations at her, so the approach seems right to me.
What's the actual attendance. Looks on TV as if it has to be under 10,000
I reckon about 6,000 home fans
If there are the best part of 3k in the away end I estimate about 8 or 9 k in the home ends.
Do you mean the home end? What about the sides? There is so much ''bigging up'' on this subject by any perspective. Apart from the North End the whole ''protest'' was a fiasco. Hundreds of supporters were refusing the flyers in Floyd Road, not forgetting those who screwed them up and threw them away. Is it not time to ''get real''?
Waldo, I gave out 300 posters in Charlton Lane & 90% of fans took them.
More than half of fans in the North & East stood up & held them up. Not so many in the West.
This proved that more then 2% of the fans are dissatisfied, with how the club is being run.
Wait, is the aim of this protest to get the club to employ(re-employ in some cases) certain fans in high up positions?
I am sure that is not the aim, however the CEO could do a lot worse than re employ some of the former senior managers that post on this forum. The accumulated knowledge of the staff that were chased out of the club, would I guarantee have stopped an awful lot of shambles that now seem to be taking place at the valley.
I've not read the whole thread but my observation is that I couldn't hear those singing, apart from Henry sat in front of me, in the ground or on the tele when I got home.
I couldn't tell who was holding up the 'posters' but is felt, to me, like a minoriry.
I still think it was enough to make a point and the decision from Sky to show a section of fans and then cut to KM who was looking left and right and looking a little uncomfortable, has achieved the aim.
I, still, couldn't, however, feel deflated coming away from the game after seeing us lose 3-0 at home again.
I think today worked, even though I think it was less impacting than many had hoped for.
We do, however, need to inprove on the pitch of we could find ourselves holding these protests in the third division.
I thought the protest was successful on many counts
1. It was harmless(no-one was disrespected or got hurt) but communicated a real message of dissatisfaction with more than what is happening on the field 2. It was informative; as I told (apologetically) the person behind me that I would be standing to protest I also explained why and this was well received and I made sure that all the people I know knew what was going on. 3. It showed an organisational capability amongst the fan base which has mobilised very quickly and as someone not involved in its organisation/delivery I was very impressed by the way it was done (essentially getting the job done and it encourages people like me to get involved (if we had the time) 4. It was effective; regardless of how many stood up and showed the leaflet the Board would have seen the message.
It is difficult to know how to EXPECT a response from the club. Do they set up, asap, some kind of forum ? What are we expecting their next move to be ? If that move occurs how do we respond in turn? If nothing happens then what do we do ?
It certainly suggested that more than the Meire 2% are unhappy.
Are we so far down the road with Katrien that healing can never happen and bridges can never be built? The overwhelming vibe I have that Katrien has a bunker mentality and sees Charlton supporters as the enemy. I believe that Katrien and Roland would see it as an unacceptable loss of face to admit to any failings, her comment on the success of the succession of managers indicates that to me.
It certainly suggested that more than the Meire 2% are unhappy.
Are we so far down the road with Katrien that healing can never happen and bridges can never be built? The overwhelming vibe I have that Katrien has a bunker mentality and sees Charlton supporters as the enemy. I believe that Katrien and Roland would see it as an unacceptable loss of face to admit to any failings, her comment on the success of the succession of managers indicates that to me.
I suspect Katrien would sooner appear personally in the next sex movie epic she has planned for The Valley pitch rather than in any way acknowledge that the unruly gaggle of superannuated South Londoners she detests so much may have a legitimate case.
She has already shifted or a least has made a public show of doing so
The public Q & A, car crash though it was, was one admission that she needed to do more
The private meeting with the Trust was another.
The public statement about setting up the T20k group and a Strategy Group that I'm not clear on, was another.
First she ignored us. Didn't work, we didn't go away.
Then she tried to laugh at us ie the 2% and the "I've already told you this" and "I'm spelling it out in black and white" gaffs in the video. Didn't work, she just fuelled the flames of the protest and brought it into the stadium and on to TV.
The next steps, according to Gandhi and he knew a lot about civil disobedience, is that they fight you. Then you win
She has already shifted or a least has made a public show of doing so
The public Q & A, car crash though it was, was one admission that she needed to do more
The private meeting with the Trust was another.
The public statement about setting up the T20k group and a Strategy Group that I'm not clear on, was another.
First she ignored us. Didn't work, we didn't go away.
Then she tried to laugh at us ie the 2% and the "I've already told you this" and "I'm spelling it out in black and white" gaffs in the video. Didn't work, she just fuelled the flames of the protest and brought it into the stadium and on to TV.
The next steps, according to Gandhi and he knew a lot about civil disobedience, is that they fight you. Then you win
Not sure we have enough time for his type of protest ... started his Indian campaigns in about 1921 and they only achieved independence in 1947 ... I can't take 26 years of Belgian rule.
As an enthusiastic supporter of the campaign I think those who thought up this last action on Saturday should be allowed to voice what they now think should happen as you have mobilised what I consider to be considerable support and the thing that is important is to capture the enthusiasm of people like myself to effect change.
Was asked about it today at work by a spurs fan who has little or no interest in the championship, didn't even know until recently what league we were in, but he heard about this, so somethings working!!
It is important that, as this grows in momentum, the protests are coordinated and controlled. A focal point/body is needed to drive this forward. I'm sure better mortals than me are already focusing on this. Good luck all from 6,000 miles afar.
I'd say twitter is the social media channel I'm on the least, and I only just checked it again since Saturday morning. Disappointing to see this from the news shopper. I couldn't go on sat nor was I watching it, but these chants work against in my opinion. I don't want RD at our club anymore. The 2 years have shown me that I think his model is flawed. I'm fine with 'Roland out' 'we want our Charlton back' etc, but this doesn't really strike me as the right sort of chant.
I understand people are passionate, collectives feel the safety in numbers sort of thing and might join in, heat of the moment. But do we really need these type of chants? Especially as these are probably the media pick up on
2% posters had one remit - show KM she was wrong about the level of satisfaction. Job done. Not sure what the post mortem is for with regards to the protest.
Now we move on to the next thing.
I for one didn't expect major changes after the protest, but it's about keeping the pressure up.
Marathon not a sprint.
KM was ridiculed in front the SKY cameras. Their coverage of it was excellent.
Well done all involved.
So, we've had the car park protest and the leaflet protest. What's next? To me, it's clear supporters are voting with their feet judging by the number of empty seats yesterday. From where I sit, our vocal support is non-existent. I think you should be looking to encourage as many people to come back. Fill the stadium with black and white scarves. Get behind the team but also be very vocal in letting them know exactly how we feel. Next season, I'll be voting with my wallet and keeping my credit card firmly in its holder. No renewal until they spell it out in Black n white. Keep up the good work ....
no we shouldn't, we should boycott matches, that'll make them sit up and notice. don't put your money in their pockets!
Can we get a zebra at the next game for the black and white campaign? Or more likely two guys in a zebra costume! Would get us on the lad bible and sport bible raising more awareness for the campaign.
Maybe we can do our annual fancy dress away match early this year and all go as zebras!
She has already shifted or a least has made a public show of doing so
The public Q & A, car crash though it was, was one admission that she needed to do more
The private meeting with the Trust was another.
The public statement about setting up the T20k group and a Strategy Group that I'm not clear on, was another.
First she ignored us. Didn't work, we didn't go away.
Then she tried to laugh at us ie the 2% and the "I've already told you this" and "I'm spelling it out in black and white" gaffs in the video. Didn't work, she just fuelled the flames of the protest and brought it into the stadium and on to TV.
The next steps, according to Gandhi and he knew a lot about civil disobedience, is that they fight you. Then you win
Not sure we have enough time for his type of protest ... started his Indian campaigns in about 1921 and they only achieved independence in 1947 ... I can't take 26 years of Belgian rule.
Comments
On the way, I got chatting to an Ipswich fan - works for the club, too. We were chatting about McCarthy, and I said how he'd always been a friend of Charlton (still living in Bromley and all that).
Apparently McCarthy's influence runs through all levels of Ipswich - when he took over, he got all the club staff together with the players, and made it very clear to his squad that these people's jobs depended on their attitudes and performances.
McCarthy's football is clearly designed to be more effective than artistic, but it works. And he has the power to make it work. How we could do with a Mick McCarthy at Charlton - but under the current regime, are more likely to get a powerless Mickey Mouse.
If there are the best part of 3k in the away end I estimate about 8 or 9 k in the home ends.
Do you mean the home end? What about the sides? There is so much ''bigging up'' on this subject by any perspective. Apart from the North End the whole ''protest'' was a fiasco. Hundreds of supporters were refusing the flyers in Floyd Road, not forgetting those who screwed them up and threw them away. Is it not time to ''get real''?
The North End is otherwise known as the Covered End.
That's what I was thinking, even North Stand (just) as that is the "official" name but north end ?
Whichever way you look at it, and acknowledging that many Charlton fans either refused or threw away a poster, that is an almighty kick in the metaphoric bollocks for KM.
Add to that the 3000 stay-aways and non-renewals and you have a massive vote of no-confidence in the club leadership.
Even if you don't personally support the protests, I cannot for the life of me see how any Charlton fan can justifiably claim that the protesters are in a minority. Get real. Do the sums.
In any other business the Board would be sacking the CEO. How long can Roland keep KM as CEO when she has so demonstrably lost the confidence of her paying punters?
Ultimately, RD is the problem - it does not, and will not, matter who is sitting in the CEO seat. We are in an autocracy ... nothing anyone says or does will change anything. It is only when RD himself decides to change that we will see any movement or benefit.
Hence, the need to continue with '2%' and 'Black and White' and any other worthwhile initiatives that we can develop. Autocracies are rarely good for anyone even, on occasion, the autocrat himself.
I am not confident that we have any chance of moving RD at all - however, I'd rather try than sit back and do nothing whilst my club tips into the abyss.
The accumulated knowledge of the staff that were chased out of the club, would I guarantee have stopped an awful lot of shambles that now seem to be taking place at the valley.
Agreed.
1. It was harmless(no-one was disrespected or got hurt) but communicated a real message of dissatisfaction with more than what is happening on the field
2. It was informative; as I told (apologetically) the person behind me that I would be standing to protest I also explained why and this was well received and I made sure that all the people I know knew what was going on.
3. It showed an organisational capability amongst the fan base which has mobilised very quickly and as someone not involved in its organisation/delivery I was very impressed by the way it was done (essentially getting the job done and it encourages people like me to get involved (if we had the time)
4. It was effective; regardless of how many stood up and showed the leaflet the Board would have seen the message.
It is difficult to know how to EXPECT a response from the club. Do they set up, asap, some kind of forum ? What are we expecting their next move to be ? If that move occurs how do we respond in turn? If nothing happens then what do we do ?
Are we so far down the road with Katrien that healing can never happen and bridges can never be built?
The overwhelming vibe I have that Katrien has a bunker mentality and sees Charlton supporters as the enemy. I believe that Katrien and Roland would see it as an unacceptable loss of face to admit to any failings, her comment on the success of the succession of managers indicates that to me.
The public Q & A, car crash though it was, was one admission that she needed to do more
The private meeting with the Trust was another.
The public statement about setting up the T20k group and a Strategy Group that I'm not clear on, was another.
First she ignored us. Didn't work, we didn't go away.
Then she tried to laugh at us ie the 2% and the "I've already told you this" and "I'm spelling it out in black and white" gaffs in the video. Didn't work, she just fuelled the flames of the protest and brought it into the stadium and on to TV.
The next steps, according to Gandhi and he knew a lot about civil disobedience, is that they fight you. Then you win
I understand people are passionate, collectives feel the safety in numbers sort of thing and might join in, heat of the moment. But do we really need these type of chants? Especially as these are probably the media pick up on
Shame the humble ostrich isn't black and white
The bit about football fans being just aboout able to accept a defeat but not to be treated as fools says it all for me.