Loaning Watt to Cardiff was an 'easy' decision, says Fraeye
Comments
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So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.25 -
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I completely agree with this blog http://drinkingduringthegame.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/tony-watt-played-24-scored-7.html and the comments below it. I feel the fans should sing the name of our most exciting player in recent years on Saturday. -
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The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.golfaddick said:
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
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It's a symptom of the mismanagement of communication by the club (nor the comms team I stress) that even when there appears to be a valid reason for moving a player on people are, understandably, reluctant to believe what is being said.
Oh what a tangle web we weave
When we practice to decieve
As another jock once said.
A lot of fans no longer trust the CEO and so give little credence to club statements.
Managers and even head coaches have always been "economical with the truth" to protect themselves and because they don't want to close the door on a player who might yet return (see Reza) but again the mismanagement of the communication and of KFs appointment mean he isn't being given even the slightest benefit of the doubt.
A "normal" appointment would have been given the usual honeymoon period.
But again when you keep repeating the same mistakes people lose patience.11 -
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."ShootersHillGuru said:
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.golfaddick said:
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.3 -
KF was obviously being very guarded in his responses. What do you expect him to say. "Tony Watt was a bad influence in the dressing room, especially to the impressionable younger players. He had to go". That's just not going to happen.
I believe there is substance to this and, if so, it was 100% the right decision.
Incidentally, I can't ever remember Killer being a bad influence in the dressing room.3 -
And he scored goals!..0
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Apart from giving his strike partner a right-hander during a game.Rob said:KF was obviously being very guarded in his responses. What do you expect him to say. "Tony Watt was a bad influence in the dressing room, especially to the impressionable younger players. He had to go". That's just not going to happen.
I believe there is substance to this and, if so, it was 100% the right decision.
Incidentally, I can't ever remember Killer being a bad influence in the dressing room.18 -
He's already scored more than Reza will in his career here.. no bad word to be said for Watt, the Club knew of his attitude tendencies upon signing him. Loaning him out is a defeat to that, but I'm not surprised Fraeye can't/doesn't want to handle him or Watt doesn't want to be handled by him, so to speak.1
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Come on. How would you or I ever have known? He and Flash didn't have Twitter accounts, did they?Rob said:KF was obviously being very guarded in his responses. What do you expect him to say. "Tony Watt was a bad influence in the dressing room, especially to the impressionable younger players. He had to go". That's just not going to happen.
I believe there is substance to this and, if so, it was 100% the right decision.
Incidentally, I can't ever remember Killer being a bad influence in the dressing room.
There has never been anything like that punch up in our lifetimes, has there? And the club made a right pigs ear of it.
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Well, yes there was that thing with Flash. They were two senior player though duking it out. This is a bit different I think.0
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Of course they did but maybe they thought with him going back to the UK, he might get his head down, work hard and grow up. I'm not defending the club but it sounds to me like TW has to get some of the blame if he's continuing to ruin his career by being a prick.Atletico Addick said:He's already scored more than Reza will in his career here.. no bad word to be said for Watt, the Club knew of his attitude tendencies upon signing him. Loaning him out is a defeat to that, but I'm not surprised Fraeye can't/doesn't want to handle him or Watt doesn't want to be handled by him, so to speak.
Players can afford to have a bit of Swagger and attitude if they have delivered the goods on a regular basis over the years. Watt breathes out his arse after 15 minutes and that was under a manager he apparently had a close relationship with!2 -
Arguing the contrary view, Brendan Rodgers would have thought the same about Mario Balatelli...PragueAddick said:
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."ShootersHillGuru said:
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.golfaddick said:
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
I actually don't think we needed another striker, but another creative midfielder would have been nice, with Callum not back until January and Ceballos not back until ?, we are pretty light in that area.0 -
Well, he would be. It's better than the one he left behind in Belgium.Goonerhater said:Happy with his squad ---- yes of course you are
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One would have to ask whose decision it was? How many minutes played under Fraeye? No fallouts with boss. Joint top scorer but not ever present and KF admits been playing injured since early season. What are medical staff on? Biggest star since Prem days? Struggling to mark incompetent strikers from Mak, PPP, Reza, George, McALeny while we dump the fan's favourites TWWW & Kerm.2
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Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.PragueAddick said:
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."ShootersHillGuru said:
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.golfaddick said:
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
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Guilty of fitting circumstances to fit your opinion. It is a documented fact he has been playing whilst injured. Are our two wins down to?:-
New manager
Players returning from injury
New player input KL TEV THD
Easier fixtures
Tony WWW dropped
Sacking of a useless manager
Downturns from competitors0 -
It seems that RD’s data analysts have now admitted to a computer malfunction. When the correct algorithm is used it turns out that Watt is a thoroughly nice bloke.3
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You do know how football message boards work... right?harveys gardener said:Guilty of fitting circumstances to fit your opinion. It is a documented fact he has been playing whilst injured. Are our two wins down to?:-
New manager
Players returning from injury
New player input KL TEV THD
Easier fixtures
Tony WWW dropped
Sacking of a useless manager
Downturns from competitors2 -
Sponsored links:
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Certainly not easier fixtures.0
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Can't be having that...send him to Cardiff !CyrilDavies said:And he scored goals!..
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He wasn't playing, Duchatelet doesn't like paying for players that aren't playing. I wonder if Bergdich will be sold in January.1
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It's simple the club surrounds itself in yes men/women anybody who has a voice is immediately out the door.5
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Hasn't it not been mentioned earlier, that Begdich is having trouble settling in England?. So I guess it would be no surprise if sold...0
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That seedbed of distrust. It's going to take a lot of commitment, work and patience to turn that around. And some exciting decisions that don't seem loaded towards a break even fantasy.Henry Irving said:It's a symptom of the mismanagement of communication by the club (nor the comms team I stress) that even when there appears to be a valid reason for moving a player on people are, understandably, reluctant to believe what is being said.
Oh what a tangle web we weave
When we practice to decieve
As another jock once said.
A lot of fans no longer trust the CEO and so give little credence to club statements.
Managers and even head coaches have always been "economical with the truth" to protect themselves and because they don't want to close the door on a player who might yet return (see Reza) but again the mismanagement of the communication and of KFs appointment mean he isn't being given even the slightest benefit of the doubt.
A "normal" appointment would have been given the usual honeymoon period.
But again when you keep repeating the same mistakes people lose patience.0 -
I hear the sofa is now going to be a three piece suite.rikofold said:
That seedbed of distrust. It's going to take a lot of commitment, work and patience to turn that around. And some exciting decisions that don't seem loaded towards a break even fantasy.Henry Irving said:It's a symptom of the mismanagement of communication by the club (nor the comms team I stress) that even when there appears to be a valid reason for moving a player on people are, understandably, reluctant to believe what is being said.
Oh what a tangle web we weave
When we practice to decieve
As another jock once said.
A lot of fans no longer trust the CEO and so give little credence to club statements.
Managers and even head coaches have always been "economical with the truth" to protect themselves and because they don't want to close the door on a player who might yet return (see Reza) but again the mismanagement of the communication and of KFs appointment mean he isn't being given even the slightest benefit of the doubt.
A "normal" appointment would have been given the usual honeymoon period.
But again when you keep repeating the same mistakes people lose patience.4 -
I'm not arguing that TW isn't a problematic personality. I was reporting just that from our Belgian sources when he arrived, (to much CL derision come March) and pointed out earlier that Finchy's post should be taken as especially authoritative.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.PragueAddick said:
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."ShootersHillGuru said:
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.golfaddick said:
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
My point is different. I am asking whether a more experienced manager, and one who is well established and trusted at the club, would be able to address the personality issue and get the best from the player consistently.
Maybe not. We can't know.
However it's worth noting that part of the RD philosophy favours young head coaches, and swapping them frequently. Such young guys may simply not have the personal experience, not the credit in the bank results-wise to take on the challenge.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
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I don't think age has anything to do with it.PragueAddick said:
I'm not arguing that TW isn't a problematic personality. I was reporting just that from our Belgian sources when he arrived, (to much CL derision come March) and pointed out earlier that Finchy's post should be taken as especially authoritative.ShootersHillGuru said:
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.PragueAddick said:
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."ShootersHillGuru said:
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.golfaddick said:
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?colin1961 said:What can he and the club say ....
If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
My point is different. I am asking whether a more experienced manager, and one who is well established and trusted at the club, would be able to address the personality issue and get the best from the player consistently.
Maybe not. We can't know.
However it's worth noting that part of the RD philosophy favours young head coaches, and swapping them frequently. Such young guys may simply not have the personal experience, not the credit in the bank results-wise to take on the challenge.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
You can either manage a stroppy employee or you can't - whether their 21 or 38.0 -
I wonder if the management ever stopped to think, that if the team were winning without TWWW being involved, perhaps this in itself may have been enough to make him change, or improve his attitude. But two weeks is hardly long enough to see how he reacted to the situation. One or two late sub appearances, coming into a winning situation where he could show his skills and perhaps nick a goal or two, may have been all that was required to get him back on course.
Instead we shoot ourselves in the foot yet again by giving away our most exciting player whist further upsetting already disgruntled fans.5
