He wasn't playing, Duchatelet doesn't like paying for players that aren't playing. I wonder if Bergdich will be sold in January.
And if we believe previous rumours he left to join us on a free transfer from Standard Liege and we could potentially be selling him for £2m in January. I nice healthy profit for RD in less than a year!
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
Who was that?
Red face time. Hangover. Maybe no one can manage him effectively.
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
I wonder if the management ever stopped to think, that if the team were winning without TWWW being involved, perhaps this in itself may have been enough to make him change, or improve his attitude. But two weeks is hardly long enough to see how he reacted to the situation. One or two late sub appearances, coming into a winning situation where he could show his skills and perhaps nick a goal or two, may have been all that was required to get him back on course. Instead we shoot ourselves in the foot yet again by giving away our most exciting player whist further upsetting already disgruntled fans.
But it's not about Watt's loss of form. It's about him making the dressing room and Sparrows Lane fragmented. We've heard that he's pissed off quite a few people at the club. Doesn't make it easy to form a team spirit and happy work environment. I'm sorry we've lost a football talent but glad we've lost a disruptive influence.
If the lad is not going to be playing regularly the message is get him off the books. It is why he is with us in the first place. He was not going to get a first team spot in Liege so Staprix, as with Buyens & Bulot, moved him off the Liege books. I suspect part of the Staprix business case for buying Charlton was to have ready access to a club to offload Standard Liege "fringe" players, who of course would "easily survive" in the championship. Hence the numbers arriving in January 2014.
Rumours suggest there were more than a few other "fringe" Liege players who later visited the club but chose to go elsewhere.
However the Staprix message is the same, no matter the club involved, for any player who is on a first team money.
We have seen the same with Morrisson & Wiggins who were both given decent contracts. The owner when he sits and watches his on line feed is simply interested in seeing he is "getting value for money" from any given player. If he is paying a player first team money why is he not playing? We tried to offload Morrisson to Romania and apparently even tried to offload Vetokele from the injury table to Bolton.
Watt and to a degree Fraeye are victims of circumstance. As an interim coach who had no vested interest in him joining the club nor has at present any interest in his or the clubs long term future Watt is not his problem. If he is ready to contribute to playing his way he stays if he is not he can go. Hence the easy decision. Fraeye does not have the luxury of waiting for him to get on board.
I have no idea of the issues surrounding Watt. It will be disappointing if anyone connected with the club chose to put such matters in the public domain. This is the sixth "controversial" departure following Kermorgant, Powell, Morrisson, Peeters and Luzon. Constantly "digging out" players/ coaches who leave does not go unnoticed. It is unprofessional. What happens "in house" stays "in house".
I have some sympathy with any head coach in such a situation but his comments were another indication of people not "up to speed" with the market they are in. Far be it for me to tell a professional head coach how to communicate to the press about the squad but how about;
"Tony is a very talented young player still making his way in the game but has struggled for consistency this season, as indeed have the team. We had a chat and we both feel he needs to get more games under his belt which at the moment as I am changing the shape of the team I cannot guarantee him. He is at Cardiff until January. He is a good lad and I hope he seizes this opportunity to further develop his game and we will review the position at the appropriate time. As far as I am concerned he is under long term contract to Charlton and will remain so until I hear otherwise.
The club never comments on social media "noise". I am aware of rumours surrounding his departure but I certainly have no intention of adding credence to what I believe amounts to purely speculative club gossip."
Whatever the challenges with Watt they were there for all to see before he arrived. Who knows how the Staprix matrix accommodates such characteristics?. While I sincerely hope he can get his game "on track" the lad appears to have been another "punt" in a successions of "punts".
Why the club seem happy to absorb the cost of this endless churn when trying to "balance the books" is quite another question, although if we allegedly did "stitch up" Liege then this one might ultimately go in the financial "win" column.
1 The owner has his own philosophy and motives 2 The club has its own culture 3 The CEO has a set of skills 4 The manager has a set of skills 5 Each player has an attitude and a level of commitment 6 There is a business plan.
The objective should be to match up all of the elements so that every person's contribution is aimed at number 6.
There is either a weird business plan or decisions are being made on the hoof in reaction to events that can only lead to random outcomes. The Watt move is a random outcome from chaos.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
You don't get players like Tony Watt in the Belgian third division, Fraeye isn't used to it.
I am particularly gutted that Watts has been cast aside.
Lets face it we don’t support Charlton for the glory. A visit to the trophy room cabinet is hardly going to take up an afternoon. I suppose over the 50 odd years that I’ve been going I have taken pleasure from simply watching a decent game of football from a committed professional side who are being the best they can.
My first hero was Harry Gregory who could run at defenders, take them on, cause a bit of panic and score a few goals. He wasn’t always great, but while he was on the field there was always the chance that he could be. I see a similarity between him and Watts. A bit of excitement - and god forbid - entertainment doesn’t come amiss in a game that is in danger of becoming dull and robotic.
As for Watts, he has an abundance of natural talent which needs to be harnessed. He is the sort of player whose skills could reverse the current trend at Charlton and enthuse the younger generation. Once a youngster is captured, you will in all probability have a life long fan. In my case, I know that Harry Gregory has a lot to answer for.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
Who was that?
Red face time. Hangover. Maybe no one can manage him effectively.
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
No surprises there. However, I wouldn't call a football club a 'normal company'. Most 'normal companies' pay their managers substantially more than the people they manage - which is not the case here.
Would you say Johnny Jackson had the experience to manage a personality like Watt?
In a short space of time I became a big Tony Watt fan he has pace, an eye for goal and is strong but somehow you get the feeling that he will just chuck all that talent away. It is incorrect to compare him to the likes of Di Canio and Paul Gascoigne sure they could be difficult but both loved the game and in Di Canio's case always put a shift in and trained harder than anyone else, hence he was still playing for us in the Prem when he was well over 30 and able to give Glen Johnson a proper football lesson.
It would appear that Watt is a disruptive influence and if that is the case, talented or not we are better off without him it is just the case that we will probably get out of this mire by playing with teamwork like we did last two matches, mavericks are OK if you have the side to accommodate them but we need 11 players working together at the moment and somehow I don't see Tony Watt fitting the bill. Shame I really enjoyed seeing him play but this may be for the best.
Deeply disappointed as he is a player with bags of talent but his head appears to have been in the wrong place for a good while and I've commented on this before.
No immediate winners here - he should have been perfect for us from the Club's perspective and from his own, he has held his own development back by not bringing in other players around him. It could be argued that he started getting greedy because he was getting poor support from his team mates and lost the will but that could all have come about by his own attitude.
I hope there is a longer term winner here in that the remaining squad unite and do the business - do on the field what Watt was brought in to do and was and still is very capable of doing.
Really pees me off when young players with bags of talent don't fulfil their ability.
If the lad is not going to be playing regularly the message is get him off the books. It is why he is with us in the first place. He was not going to get a first team spot in Liege so Staprix, as with Buyens & Bulot, moved him off the Liege books. I suspect part of the Staprix business case for buying Charlton was to have ready access to a club to offload Standard Liege "fringe" players, who of course would "easily survive" in the championship. Hence the numbers arriving in January 2014.
Rumours suggest there were more than a few other "fringe" Liege players who later visited the club but chose to go elsewhere.
However the Staprix message is the same, no matter the club involved, for any player who is on a first team money.
We have seen the same with Morrisson & Wiggins who were both given decent contracts. The owner when he sits and watches his on line feed is simply interested in seeing he is "getting value for money" from any given player. If he is paying a player first team money why is he not playing? We tried to offload Morrisson to Romania and apparently even tried to offload Vetokele from the injury table to Bolton.
Watt and to a degree Fraeye are victims of circumstance. As an interim coach who had no vested interest in him joining the club nor has at present any interest in his or the clubs long term future Watt is not his problem. If he is ready to contribute to playing his way he stays if he is not he can go. Hence the easy decision. Fraeye does not have the luxury of waiting for him to get on board.
I have no idea of the issues surrounding Watt. It will be disappointing if anyone connected with the club chose to put such matters in the public domain. This is the sixth "controversial" departure following Kermorgant, Powell, Morrisson, Peeters and Luzon. Constantly "digging out" players/ coaches who leave does not go unnoticed. It is unprofessional. What happens "in house" stays "in house".
I have some sympathy with any head coach in such a situation but his comments were another indication of people not "up to speed" with the market they are in. Far be it for me to tell a professional head coach how to communicate to the press about the squad but how about;
"Tony is a very talented young player still making his way in the game but has struggled for consistency this season, as indeed have the team. We had a chat and we both feel he needs to get more games under his belt which at the moment as I am changing the shape of the team I cannot guarantee him. He is at Cardiff until January. He is a good lad and I hope he seizes this opportunity to further develop his game and we will review the position at the appropriate time. As far as I am concerned he is under long term contract to Charlton and will remain so until I hear otherwise.
The club never comments on social media "noise". I am aware of rumours surrounding his departure but I certainly have no intention of adding credence to what I believe amounts to purely speculative club gossip."
Whatever the challenges with Watt they were there for all to see before he arrived. Who knows how the Staprix matrix accommodates such characteristics?. While I sincerely hope he can get his game "on track" the lad appears to have been another "punt" in a successions of "punts".
Why the club seem happy to absorb the cost of this endless churn when trying to "balance the books" is quite another question, although if we allegedly did "stitch up" Liege then this one might ultimately go in the financial "win" column.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
Who was that?
Red face time. Hangover. Maybe no one can manage him effectively.
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
No surprises there. However, I wouldn't call a football club a 'normal company'. Most 'normal companies' pay their managers substantially more than the people they manage - which is not the case here.
Would you say Johnny Jackson had the experience to manage a personality like Watt?
Well JJ clearly has not got the experience to indicate he'd be a great manager of players.In that respect, he's totally unproven. I guess you are picking up on our perception that he's good leader, as a captain. However that has not always translated into success as a manager.
I don't know what to think about TW. The evidence is quite compelling that he's a problem for a manager. But it's worth considering RD's 'strategy' of going for "youth" which extends to the manager/Head Coach as well as players. Could a more experienced manager, safe in his own job, have the people skills and the patience to get the best out of Tony Watt? Because if the answer is "yes" some club will have one exciting player. Equally the answer could be "no", in which case Tony Watt won't be the first player to waste his considerable talent.
I wonder whether Curbs would have felt able to handle Paulo di Canio if he'd been offered when Curbs was new to the job and di Canio was in his mid 20s? A lot of people were surprised when Curbs signed him, precisely because of PDC's past. But my goodness what a magical signing that was, giving our attacking play an unpredictable and menacing dimension we'd never previously had.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
Who was that?
Red face time. Hangover. Maybe no one can manage him effectively.
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
No surprises there. However, I wouldn't call a football club a 'normal company'. Most 'normal companies' pay their managers substantially more than the people they manage - which is not the case here.
Would you say Johnny Jackson had the experience to manage a personality like Watt?
Well JJ clearly has not got the experience to indicate he'd be a great manager of players.In that respect, he's totally unproven. I guess you are picking up on our perception that he's good leader, as a captain. However that has not always translated into success as a manager.
I don't know what to think about TW. The evidence is quite compelling that he's a problem for a manager. But it's worth considering RD's 'strategy' of going for "youth" which extends to the manager/Head Coach as well as players. Could a more experienced manager, safe in his own job, have the people skills and the patience to get the best out of Tony Watt? Because if the answer is "yes" some club will have one exciting player. Equally the answer could be "no", in which case Tony Watt won't be the first player to waste his considerable talent.
I wonder whether Curbs would have felt able to handle Paulo di Canio if he'd been offered when Curbs was new to the job and di Canio was in his mid 20s? A lot of people were surprised when Curbs signed him, precisely because of PDC's past. But my goodness what a magical signing that was, giving our attacking play an unpredictable and menacing dimension we'd never previously had.
We'll soon find out when he plays for Cardiff. I always thought that, in the right team with plenty of support and movement - quick ball etc, he could be a very good, successful and happy footballer.
If the Cardiff players give him that and the chemistry between the squad is good and strong and TW buys into that, then he will likely do very well.
If he remains hard to work with, if that actually is the case, then the future will be difficult for him.
I wonder if the management ever stopped to think, that if the team were winning without TWWW being involved, perhaps this in itself may have been enough to make him change, or improve his attitude. But two weeks is hardly long enough to see how he reacted to the situation. One or two late sub appearances, coming into a winning situation where he could show his skills and perhaps nick a goal or two, may have been all that was required to get him back on course. Instead we shoot ourselves in the foot yet again by giving away our most exciting player whist further upsetting already disgruntled fans.
But it's not about Watt's loss of form. It's about him making the dressing room and Sparrows Lane fragmented. We've heard that he's pissed off quite a few people at the club. Doesn't make it easy to form a team spirit and happy work environment. I'm sorry we've lost a football talent but glad we've lost a disruptive influence.
That's why I talked about him needing to change/improve his attitude.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
Who was that?
Red face time. Hangover. Maybe no one can manage him effectively.
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
No surprises there. However, I wouldn't call a football club a 'normal company'. Most 'normal companies' pay their managers substantially more than the people they manage - which is not the case here.
Would you say Johnny Jackson had the experience to manage a personality like Watt?
Well JJ clearly has not got the experience to indicate he'd be a great manager of players.In that respect, he's totally unproven. I guess you are picking up on our perception that he's good leader, as a captain. However that has not always translated into success as a manager.
I don't know what to think about TW. The evidence is quite compelling that he's a problem for a manager. But it's worth considering RD's 'strategy' of going for "youth" which extends to the manager/Head Coach as well as players. Could a more experienced manager, safe in his own job, have the people skills and the patience to get the best out of Tony Watt? Because if the answer is "yes" some club will have one exciting player. Equally the answer could be "no", in which case Tony Watt won't be the first player to waste his considerable talent.
I wonder whether Curbs would have felt able to handle Paulo di Canio if he'd been offered when Curbs was new to the job and di Canio was in his mid 20s? A lot of people were surprised when Curbs signed him, precisely because of PDC's past. But my goodness what a magical signing that was, giving our attacking play an unpredictable and menacing dimension we'd never previously had.
We'll soon find out when he plays for Cardiff. I always thought that, in the right team with plenty of support and movement - quick ball etc, he could be a very good, successful and happy footballer.
If the Cardiff players give him that and the chemistry between the squad is good and strong and TW buys into that, then he will likely do very well.
If he remains hard to work with, if that actually is the case, then the future will be difficult for him.
We won't find out soon though will we. It wouldn't be a surprise to anyone if he does well for them over the next month or so.
The question is if he can become more consistent and improve then maintain his fitness and work rate. He looked more like a player capable of that last season. This season despite having a pre-season with us he hasn't looked as fit as he should be.
The reactions to everything the club does or says are amazing.
Please don't self-harm guys - the club needs you !
OK I know I'm fast becoming the CL resident token 'mental health patient' but, yet again, can we PLEASE stop using this stuff. It's as bad as racist or homophobic comments.
What can he and the club say .... If you read between the lines how the club are wording there statements and even the story from Stephen Henderson about Watt , there was clearly a problem and he had to be moved on
So, just because TW can be a bit "difficult" then you get rid......? Over the years there have been many strikers who have a bit of something different about them, that's what makes them the players they are.......Jeez, if we had Killer nowdays he'd had been shipped off to pastures new before he even got to play, What about players like Di Canio, Gascoigne etc etc ?
Its not even as though he'd been swinging punches around ala Todd & Kiely or sleeping with players wives or mothers. All it takes it a good manger & TW will turn out a decent player but no one seems to have the cohunes to stand by him.
The clue here is FOOTBALL TEAM. A manager / Coach call it whatever you want has a responsibility to the squad not just an errant player. If the disruption is such that it upsets the team then as KF said it's an easy decision to move a player on.
But that is the point. It's easy. The more difficult decision is "I as the manager of this team, recognise that this guy is a major talent. He's also a difficult ******. But if I succeed, everyone wins.The club, the fans, me, the player."
I suppose that is what Sir Alex decided re Eric Cantona.
Now the thing is, its a brave decision by the manager. You can only expect such a decision if the manager has already built a reputation at the club, and feels secure in his role.
Well then. Let's look at the scant facts we do have.
With Watt part of the squad the teams performances, body language and spirit over the weeks preceding his removal from team selection were to say the least poor.
Since he was not (I presume) considered for selection all of those issues seemed to melt away with two convincing victories.
We have several itk posters hinting that Watt has had a disruptive influence.
We have had several senior players condemning with scant support. I think I'm right in saying that Henderson ? Was quoted as saying of Watt "he's young and will learn" hardly a ringing endorsement.
Sometimes it is best to remove a gangerous finger to save the hand.
It's worth noting that we are now on our 3rd very young Head Coach. The one who did get good performances out of Tony Watt, is aged over 50.
Who was that?
Red face time. Hangover. Maybe no one can manage him effectively.
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
No surprises there. However, I wouldn't call a football club a 'normal company'. Most 'normal companies' pay their managers substantially more than the people they manage - which is not the case here.
Would you say Johnny Jackson had the experience to manage a personality like Watt?
Well JJ clearly has not got the experience to indicate he'd be a great manager of players.In that respect, he's totally unproven. I guess you are picking up on our perception that he's good leader, as a captain. However that has not always translated into success as a manager.
I don't know what to think about TW. The evidence is quite compelling that he's a problem for a manager. But it's worth considering RD's 'strategy' of going for "youth" which extends to the manager/Head Coach as well as players. Could a more experienced manager, safe in his own job, have the people skills and the patience to get the best out of Tony Watt? Because if the answer is "yes" some club will have one exciting player. Equally the answer could be "no", in which case Tony Watt won't be the first player to waste his considerable talent.
I wonder whether Curbs would have felt able to handle Paulo di Canio if he'd been offered when Curbs was new to the job and di Canio was in his mid 20s? A lot of people were surprised when Curbs signed him, precisely because of PDC's past. But my goodness what a magical signing that was, giving our attacking play an unpredictable and menacing dimension we'd never previously had.
Di Canio was always a great professional in the sense that he kept himself in very good condition, that came from within. Someone like David Whyte (RIP) who started brightly with us, then faded badly seems a better comparison. Or Francis Jeffers...
"I knew the gaffer was interested me in the summer. But things were going well at Charlton and I was enjoying it. I was settled and had only been there for five months and there was no point leaving the club when I was enjoying it.
But I got a call on Wednesday saying the club want you to go out on loan and would I be interested in Cardiff and I said of course I would, it’s a massive club.
I was a bit scared having the medical as I’d be injured for a bit but the gaffer came in and said everything would be alright.
I was surprised Charlton let me go out on loan as I felt I still had a job to do there. I didn’t expect them to let me go but that’s football. It happens at times."
Watt says he wants to stay
"There has been no bust-up at Charlton. I didn’t have a problem with anybody at the club. The gaffer was brilliant with me letting me come here. I am sure he will keep in contact after Saturday and if I score I am sure he will be the first person to text me. I want to be here as long as I can. I wouldn’t have come if I didn’t have any ambitions beyond the eight weeks. I want to cement a place."
So the truth is, possibly, that as Watt says, there was no bust up (don't think anyone said there was).
However, we know he's young and not the ideal player to manage.
We know he was regarded unfavourably at previous clubs, because of his attitude and we know he's had issues at Charlton, as he didn't start the first game of the season, due to disciplinary issues and he's not looked interested for months.
Probably best that he's gone on loan, if he's not committed & who cares that it's Cardiff. They are not a relegation rival.
Comments
All about the bottom line!!!
That said, I fundamentally disagree with @Addickted. While some people have inbuilt talent for people management, it is to a greater extent learnt, through experience. That's why in normal companies managers gradually take on more people management responsibilities.
If the lad is not going to be playing regularly the message is get him off the books. It is why he is with us in the first place. He was not going to get a first team spot in Liege so Staprix, as with Buyens & Bulot, moved him off the Liege books. I suspect part of the Staprix business case for buying Charlton was to have ready access to a club to offload Standard Liege "fringe" players, who of course would "easily survive" in the championship. Hence the numbers arriving in January 2014.
Rumours suggest there were more than a few other "fringe" Liege players who later visited the club but chose to go elsewhere.
However the Staprix message is the same, no matter the club involved, for any player who is on a first team money.
We have seen the same with Morrisson & Wiggins who were both given decent contracts. The owner when he sits and watches his on line feed is simply interested in seeing he is "getting value for money" from any given player. If he is paying a player first team money why is he not playing? We tried to offload Morrisson to Romania and apparently even tried to offload Vetokele from the injury table to Bolton.
Watt and to a degree Fraeye are victims of circumstance. As an interim coach who had no vested interest in him joining the club nor has at present any interest in his or the clubs long term future Watt is not his problem. If he is ready to contribute to playing his way he stays if he is not he can go. Hence the easy decision. Fraeye does not have the luxury of waiting for him to get on board.
I have no idea of the issues surrounding Watt. It will be disappointing if anyone connected with the club chose to put such matters in the public domain. This is the sixth "controversial" departure following Kermorgant, Powell, Morrisson, Peeters and Luzon. Constantly "digging out" players/ coaches who leave does not go unnoticed. It is unprofessional. What happens "in house" stays "in house".
I have some sympathy with any head coach in such a situation but his comments were another indication of people not "up to speed" with the market they are in. Far be it for me to tell a professional head coach how to communicate to the press about the squad but how about;
"Tony is a very talented young player still making his way in the game but has struggled for consistency this season, as indeed have the team. We had a chat and we both feel he needs to get more games under his belt which at the moment as I am changing the shape of the team I cannot guarantee him. He is at Cardiff until January. He is a good lad and I hope he seizes this opportunity to further develop his game and we will review the position at the appropriate time. As far as I am concerned he is under long term contract to Charlton and will remain so until I hear otherwise.
The club never comments on social media "noise". I am aware of rumours surrounding his departure but I certainly have no intention of adding credence to what I believe amounts to purely speculative club gossip."
Whatever the challenges with Watt they were there for all to see before he arrived. Who knows how the Staprix matrix accommodates such characteristics?. While I sincerely hope he can get his game "on track" the lad appears to have been another "punt" in a successions of "punts".
Why the club seem happy to absorb the cost of this endless churn when trying to "balance the books" is quite another question, although if we allegedly did "stitch up" Liege then this one might ultimately go in the financial "win" column.
2 The club has its own culture
3 The CEO has a set of skills
4 The manager has a set of skills
5 Each player has an attitude and a level of commitment
6 There is a business plan.
The objective should be to match up all of the elements so that every person's contribution is aimed at number 6.
There is either a weird business plan or decisions are being made on the hoof in reaction to events that can only lead to random outcomes. The Watt move is a random outcome from chaos.
Lets face it we don’t support Charlton for the glory. A visit to the trophy
roomcabinet is hardly going to take up an afternoon. I suppose over the 50 odd years that I’ve been going I have taken pleasure from simply watching a decent game of football from a committed professional side who are being the best they can.My first hero was Harry Gregory who could run at defenders, take them on, cause a bit of panic and score a few goals. He wasn’t always great, but while he was on the field there was always the chance that he could be. I see a similarity between him and Watts. A bit of excitement - and god forbid - entertainment doesn’t come amiss in a game that is in danger of becoming dull and robotic.
As for Watts, he has an abundance of natural talent which needs to be harnessed. He is the sort of player whose skills could reverse the current trend at Charlton and enthuse the younger generation. Once a youngster is captured, you will in all probability have a life long fan. In my case, I know that Harry Gregory has a lot to answer for.
Would you say Johnny Jackson had the experience to manage a personality like Watt?
It would appear that Watt is a disruptive influence and if that is the case, talented or not we are better off without him it is just the case that we will probably get out of this mire by playing with teamwork like we did last two matches, mavericks are OK if you have the side to accommodate them but we need 11 players working together at the moment and somehow I don't see Tony Watt fitting the bill. Shame I really enjoyed seeing him play but this may be for the best.
Deeply disappointed as he is a player with bags of talent but his head appears to have been in the wrong place for a good while and I've commented on this before.
No immediate winners here - he should have been perfect for us from the Club's perspective and from his own, he has held his own development back by not bringing in other players around him.
It could be argued that he started getting greedy because he was getting poor support from his team mates and lost the will but that could all have come about by his own attitude.
I hope there is a longer term winner here in that the remaining squad unite and do the business - do on the field what Watt was brought in to do and was and still is very capable of doing.
Really pees me off when young players with bags of talent don't fulfil their ability.
I don't know what to think about TW. The evidence is quite compelling that he's a problem for a manager. But it's worth considering RD's 'strategy' of going for "youth" which extends to the manager/Head Coach as well as players. Could a more experienced manager, safe in his own job, have the people skills and the patience to get the best out of Tony Watt? Because if the answer is "yes" some club will have one exciting player. Equally the answer could be "no", in which case Tony Watt won't be the first player to waste his considerable talent.
I wonder whether Curbs would have felt able to handle Paulo di Canio if he'd been offered when Curbs was new to the job and di Canio was in his mid 20s? A lot of people were surprised when Curbs signed him, precisely because of PDC's past. But my goodness what a magical signing that was, giving our attacking play an unpredictable and menacing dimension we'd never previously had.
I always thought that, in the right team with plenty of support and movement - quick ball etc, he could be a very good, successful and happy footballer.
If the Cardiff players give him that and the chemistry between the squad is good and strong and TW buys into that, then he will likely do very well.
If he remains hard to work with, if that actually is the case, then the future will be difficult for him.
The question is if he can become more consistent and improve then maintain his fitness and work rate. He looked more like a player capable of that last season. This season despite having a pre-season with us he hasn't looked as fit as he should be.
"I knew the gaffer was interested me in the summer. But things were going well at Charlton and I was enjoying it. I was settled and had only been there for five months and there was no point leaving the club when I was enjoying it.
But I got a call on Wednesday saying the club want you to go out on loan and would I be interested in Cardiff and I said of course I would, it’s a massive club.
I was a bit scared having the medical as I’d be injured for a bit but the gaffer came in and said everything would be alright.
I was surprised Charlton let me go out on loan as I felt I still had a job to do there. I didn’t expect them to let me go but that’s football. It happens at times."
Watt says he wants to stay
"There has been no bust-up at Charlton. I didn’t have a problem with anybody at the club. The gaffer was brilliant with me letting me come here. I am sure he will keep in contact after Saturday and if I score I am sure he will be the first person to text me. I want to be here as long as I can. I wouldn’t have come if I didn’t have any ambitions beyond the eight weeks. I want to cement a place."
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/cardiff-city-transfer-news-updates-10511249
However, we know he's young and not the ideal player to manage.
We know he was regarded unfavourably at previous clubs, because of his attitude and we know he's had issues at Charlton, as he didn't start the first game of the season, due to disciplinary issues and he's not looked interested for months.
Probably best that he's gone on loan, if he's not committed & who cares that it's Cardiff. They are not a relegation rival.