OK, I have been a critic of the trust for their lack of action against this regime, I believe they may well be slowly waking up and are at last recognising that you can't talk to these people, war is the only answer.
It is now time to draw a line in the sand, the trust must make their presence truly felt and must fully stand up to these fools and actively push for more demonstrations.
If one thing is for certain the one good thing KM has done is to unite the Charlton fans, albeit against her and the rest of the puppets.
Come on the trust the gloves are off no fence sitting, no siding up to the hopeless Murray full out revolution is called for.
really don't get what people have against surveys, they inform us all of real fan opinion pretty darned valuable, but hey ho.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
their position has been made clear many times in my view
Actually @razil, with all due respect and sincerety, I've been entirely unaware of their position until about 5 minutes ago. I've been on CharltonLife pretty much constantly recently what with the protests and various bits of news, and similarly I've been monitoring a lot of social media - i.e Twitter. Something tells me I may actually be keeping my finger on the pulse a bit more than the average fan at the moment.
I'll let you know how I found out their position 5 minutes ago; I checked their website. To be completely fair, - there are a few articles on the main page, and I've bookmarked them and will read them when I'm on the train home. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't have to go on to their website and purposefully check for their position though?
Maybe I'm wrong, but when thousands of supporters of a given football club are protesting - and many individual fans have given their views on the radio - I expect to know the position of their Supporters Trust without having to dig it out myself on their website? I really would've expected to have been made aware in other ways; how come I know the views of individual fans (Olly, Mike and others from the radio for instance) but not our own Supporters Trust? (I may remember an article from around Boxing Day - I'm not sure if that was from The Trust. However, I certainly cannot remember its content.)
I understand the Trust are no doubt running another survey or something similar to gauge member feelings: but given the extremity of this situation I still find the silence and lack of action to be deeply disappointing.
Now isn't the time for starting an argument internally, that plays in to the hands of the regime, so I'm not trying to start one. However, I'm offering my personal point of view - not only as a concerned Charlton fan, but a lapsed trust member who didn't renew his membership because.. well, he found it relatively easy to forget the trust even existed.
The Trust, as an idea at least, is a very important concept and organisation. However I fear it could be doing a bit more to be relevant and providing a voice.
A little bit harsh to criticise an organisation for being silent on the subject of the protests when by your own admission they have a number of links / articles / opportunities to contribute to the protests on the first page of their easily accessible website. That sounds like hypocrisy to me.
As a founder of the Trust alongside @razil I completely agree with you that supporters Trusts are incredibly important, and increasingly so as English football continues to change, however as a board member until very recently I appreciate there really is a complicated role to play and I think they're playing it fairly well.
I fear you've misunderstood my point; and in some ways proved it - I didn't even know those articles existed. I had a brief recollection of one article, and I'm not even sure if that was from the trust now I think about it more.
It's not much use having access to a collection of articles if you don't know they exist, that was my situation. I have no reason to regularly check the Trust website, I'm not a member anymore nor have I heard a great deal about them of late - little comments about them here and there, but nothing substantial enough to want to make me check their site.
You can't simply communicate through your own website. Communicating solely through your website is excellent if you know your entire target audience visits it, but that's not the case with The Trust. If you check any analytics you have, I'm willing to hazard a guess that the monthly average for unique views is less than the numbr of subscribers? If that's the case, only communicating via the website is a good way to shrink your membership too. What's more, there's a very obvious bias by only communicating via channels you control: people who don't agree with you probably wont be taking the effort to read your site.
Your intended audience are the fans of Charlton, and that audience is larger than just the visitors of the trust website, and as such I feel the Trust needs to be doing more to engage and communicate with fans as a whole. What's more, they should be reassuring those same fans that they are aware of the current circumstances and are intending on doing something.
I have been a Trust member from day one and have supported it on a number of occasions against detractors on here.
The other day I emailed the Trust expressing my concerns and posted a copy on here hoping that other members would do likewise.
I have yet to receive a response to that email but do understand that volunteers have other calls on their time particularly at this time of the year.
However, to briefly paraphrase what I understand to be the position of @rikofold re the unrest surrounding Valley Gold (VG), namely that VG could become an unintended casualty of the protests I think there is a very real danger that the same could be true of the Supporters' Trust.
Yes the mandate was negotiation but, to use a Charlton Life cliche, events have "moved on" and in my view the Trust has to not only react but be seen to react.
I say all this to be constructive not critical and hope, given my previous support, that my comments will be accepted as such.
I count four articles/links of the six on the home page which detail the protests/invite ideas or criticise the regime, the fifth is a match preview for the Forest game and the sixth announces a competition winner.
Quite how that is sitting on the fence is beyond me and I'm not sure what people would realistically want supporters trust to do instead, unless they fundamentally misunderstand that the point of a supporters trust is to try and increase fan involvement and representation in the running of their football club in order to preserve it for generations to come.
their position has been made clear many times in my view
Actually @razil, with all due respect and sincerety, I've been entirely unaware of their position until about 5 minutes ago. I've been on CharltonLife pretty much constantly recently what with the protests and various bits of news, and similarly I've been monitoring a lot of social media - i.e Twitter. Something tells me I may actually be keeping my finger on the pulse a bit more than the average fan at the moment.
I'll let you know how I found out their position 5 minutes ago; I checked their website. To be completely fair, - there are a few articles on the main page, and I've bookmarked them and will read them when I'm on the train home. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't have to go on to their website and purposefully check for their position though?
Maybe I'm wrong, but when thousands of supporters of a given football club are protesting - and many individual fans have given their views on the radio - I expect to know the position of their Supporters Trust without having to dig it out myself on their website? I really would've expected to have been made aware in other ways; how come I know the views of individual fans (Olly, Mike and others from the radio for instance) but not our own Supporters Trust? (I may remember an article from around Boxing Day - I'm not sure if that was from The Trust. However, I certainly cannot remember its content.)
I understand the Trust are no doubt running another survey or something similar to gauge member feelings: but given the extremity of this situation I still find the silence and lack of action to be deeply disappointing.
Now isn't the time for starting an argument internally, that plays in to the hands of the regime, so I'm not trying to start one. However, I'm offering my personal point of view - not only as a concerned Charlton fan, but a lapsed trust member who didn't renew his membership because.. well, he found it relatively easy to forget the trust even existed.
The Trust, as an idea at least, is a very important concept and organisation. However I fear it could be doing a bit more to be relevant and providing a voice.
A little bit harsh to criticise an organisation for being silent on the subject of the protests when by your own admission they have a number of links / articles / opportunities to contribute to the protests on the first page of their easily accessible website. That sounds like hypocrisy to me.
As a founder of the Trust alongside @razil I completely agree with you that supporters Trusts are incredibly important, and increasingly so as English football continues to change, however as a board member until very recently I appreciate there really is a complicated role to play and I think they're playing it fairly well.
I fear you've misunderstood my point; and in some ways proved it - I didn't even know those articles existed. I had a brief recollection of one article, and I'm not even sure if that was from the trust now I think about it more.
It's not much use having access to a collection of articles if you don't know they exist, that was my situation. I have no reason to regularly check the Trust website, I'm not a member anymore nor have I heard a great deal about them of late - little comments about them here and there, but nothing substantial enough to want to make me check their site.
You can't simply communicate through your own website. Communicating solely through your website is excellent if you know your entire target audience visits it, but that's not the case with The Trust. If you check any analytics you have, I'm willing to hazard a guess that the monthly average for unique views is less than the numbr of subscribers? If that's the case, only communicating via the website is a good way to shrink your membership too. What's more, there's a very obvious bias by only communicating via channels you control: people who don't agree with you probably wont be taking the effort to read your site.
Your intended audience are the fans of Charlton, and that audience is larger than just the visitors of the trust website, and as such I feel the Trust needs to be doing more to engage and communicate with fans as a whole. What's more, they should be reassuring those same fans that they are aware of the current circumstances and are intending on doing something.
I just think you're expecting far, far too much from an organisation that is really driven by a handful of volunteers. Very easy to criticise and say "they should be doing this, that and the other" but realistically they only have a finite amount of time and resource to expend and need to choose how best to do that, at the moment I think they're spending it fairly well.
I think there is a very real danger that the same could be true of the Supporters' Trust.
I can speak for this. When all of this began I intended to join the trust as I believed it would have made a real stand against the regime and for the first time saw the potential benefits of being a member. I waited to see what their course of action would be and then decided not to join. I am very glad that I made that decision as they don't seem to have done anything aside from fail to establish a dialogue with KM.
really don't get what people have against surveys, they inform us all of real fan opinion pretty darned valuable, but hey ho.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
Razil mate, we know the effort that goes in to the Trust - and this isn't a personal thing.
The surveys are a necessity. I understand that completely, and it does build up an accurate picture of our support if done properly - that's great. But come on... there were over a thousand people chanting outside the ground for an hour the other day; that's a pretty good indicator of mood too.
As I've mentioned above, the newsletter/TNT/site isn't the best communication tool. In normal circumstances it's probably perfect, but right now I really feel the best option is engaging in as wide a channel as possible - let everyone know you're here and you're considering doing something. This is the time we need our Trust, don't let people forget you exist.
People are always going to criticise, the Chris Powell survey was clearly about a divisive issue and to be fair the amount of in-fan arguments at the time are probably one reason behind the negative reception. Look beyond that and see what people are saying now; before people lose faith. I've tried to be constructive in my criticism personally.
You've said yourself Katrien ignored you when you got to talk to her, so what do you think will be achieved by seeking a meeting again? She doesn't care sadly, and I think it may be a waste of energy trying to see her - and a further waste of energy communicating with her. Let her be.
their position has been made clear many times in my view
Actually @razil, with all due respect and sincerety, I've been entirely unaware of their position until about 5 minutes ago. I've been on CharltonLife pretty much constantly recently what with the protests and various bits of news, and similarly I've been monitoring a lot of social media - i.e Twitter. Something tells me I may actually be keeping my finger on the pulse a bit more than the average fan at the moment.
I'll let you know how I found out their position 5 minutes ago; I checked their website. To be completely fair, - there are a few articles on the main page, and I've bookmarked them and will read them when I'm on the train home. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't have to go on to their website and purposefully check for their position though?
Maybe I'm wrong, but when thousands of supporters of a given football club are protesting - and many individual fans have given their views on the radio - I expect to know the position of their Supporters Trust without having to dig it out myself on their website? I really would've expected to have been made aware in other ways; how come I know the views of individual fans (Olly, Mike and others from the radio for instance) but not our own Supporters Trust? (I may remember an article from around Boxing Day - I'm not sure if that was from The Trust. However, I certainly cannot remember its content.)
I understand the Trust are no doubt running another survey or something similar to gauge member feelings: but given the extremity of this situation I still find the silence and lack of action to be deeply disappointing.
Now isn't the time for starting an argument internally, that plays in to the hands of the regime, so I'm not trying to start one. However, I'm offering my personal point of view - not only as a concerned Charlton fan, but a lapsed trust member who didn't renew his membership because.. well, he found it relatively easy to forget the trust even existed.
The Trust, as an idea at least, is a very important concept and organisation. However I fear it could be doing a bit more to be relevant and providing a voice.
A little bit harsh to criticise an organisation for being silent on the subject of the protests when by your own admission they have a number of links / articles / opportunities to contribute to the protests on the first page of their easily accessible website. That sounds like hypocrisy to me.
As a founder of the Trust alongside @razil I completely agree with you that supporters Trusts are incredibly important, and increasingly so as English football continues to change, however as a board member until very recently I appreciate there really is a complicated role to play and I think they're playing it fairly well.
I fear you've misunderstood my point; and in some ways proved it - I didn't even know those articles existed. I had a brief recollection of one article, and I'm not even sure if that was from the trust now I think about it more.
It's not much use having access to a collection of articles if you don't know they exist, that was my situation. I have no reason to regularly check the Trust website, I'm not a member anymore nor have I heard a great deal about them of late - little comments about them here and there, but nothing substantial enough to want to make me check their site.
You can't simply communicate through your own website. Communicating solely through your website is excellent if you know your entire target audience visits it, but that's not the case with The Trust. If you check any analytics you have, I'm willing to hazard a guess that the monthly average for unique views is less than the numbr of subscribers? If that's the case, only communicating via the website is a good way to shrink your membership too. What's more, there's a very obvious bias by only communicating via channels you control: people who don't agree with you probably wont be taking the effort to read your site.
Your intended audience are the fans of Charlton, and that audience is larger than just the visitors of the trust website, and as such I feel the Trust needs to be doing more to engage and communicate with fans as a whole. What's more, they should be reassuring those same fans that they are aware of the current circumstances and are intending on doing something.
I designed the communications infrastructure for the Trust
You could as a member receive daily updates, or weekly, as a member or non-member subscriber
You would also have been written to when you didn't renew
The Trust also has a stall on a number of match days
You can subscribe to twitter and Facebook both of which would update you immediately pretty much when an article is published, and all appear on NewsNow Charlton page too.
It also published a magasine TNT with a circulation of 3000 plus free of charge, and available online unlike any other CAFC fan mag
The Trust also posted on here, but folk said it was too much
Many Trust people are on the message boards
So I think your analysis is a little unfair, but I am sure the people now on the TB will take it on board
their position has been made clear many times in my view
Actually @razil, with all due respect and sincerety, I've been entirely unaware of their position until about 5 minutes ago. I've been on CharltonLife pretty much constantly recently what with the protests and various bits of news, and similarly I've been monitoring a lot of social media - i.e Twitter. Something tells me I may actually be keeping my finger on the pulse a bit more than the average fan at the moment.
I'll let you know how I found out their position 5 minutes ago; I checked their website. To be completely fair, - there are a few articles on the main page, and I've bookmarked them and will read them when I'm on the train home. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't have to go on to their website and purposefully check for their position though?
Maybe I'm wrong, but when thousands of supporters of a given football club are protesting - and many individual fans have given their views on the radio - I expect to know the position of their Supporters Trust without having to dig it out myself on their website? I really would've expected to have been made aware in other ways; how come I know the views of individual fans (Olly, Mike and others from the radio for instance) but not our own Supporters Trust? (I may remember an article from around Boxing Day - I'm not sure if that was from The Trust. However, I certainly cannot remember its content.)
I understand the Trust are no doubt running another survey or something similar to gauge member feelings: but given the extremity of this situation I still find the silence and lack of action to be deeply disappointing.
Now isn't the time for starting an argument internally, that plays in to the hands of the regime, so I'm not trying to start one. However, I'm offering my personal point of view - not only as a concerned Charlton fan, but a lapsed trust member who didn't renew his membership because.. well, he found it relatively easy to forget the trust even existed.
The Trust, as an idea at least, is a very important concept and organisation. However I fear it could be doing a bit more to be relevant and providing a voice.
A little bit harsh to criticise an organisation for being silent on the subject of the protests when by your own admission they have a number of links / articles / opportunities to contribute to the protests on the first page of their easily accessible website. That sounds like hypocrisy to me.
As a founder of the Trust alongside @razil I completely agree with you that supporters Trusts are incredibly important, and increasingly so as English football continues to change, however as a board member until very recently I appreciate there really is a complicated role to play and I think they're playing it fairly well.
I fear you've misunderstood my point; and in some ways proved it - I didn't even know those articles existed. I had a brief recollection of one article, and I'm not even sure if that was from the trust now I think about it more.
It's not much use having access to a collection of articles if you don't know they exist, that was my situation. I have no reason to regularly check the Trust website, I'm not a member anymore nor have I heard a great deal about them of late - little comments about them here and there, but nothing substantial enough to want to make me check their site.
You can't simply communicate through your own website. Communicating solely through your website is excellent if you know your entire target audience visits it, but that's not the case with The Trust. If you check any analytics you have, I'm willing to hazard a guess that the monthly average for unique views is less than the numbr of subscribers? If that's the case, only communicating via the website is a good way to shrink your membership too. What's more, there's a very obvious bias by only communicating via channels you control: people who don't agree with you probably wont be taking the effort to read your site.
Your intended audience are the fans of Charlton, and that audience is larger than just the visitors of the trust website, and as such I feel the Trust needs to be doing more to engage and communicate with fans as a whole. What's more, they should be reassuring those same fans that they are aware of the current circumstances and are intending on doing something.
I designed the communications infrastructure for the Trust
You could as a member receive daily updates, or weekly, as a member or non-member subscriber
You would also have been written to when you didn't renew
The Trust also has a stall on a number of match days
You can subscribe to twitter and Facebook both of which would update you immediately pretty much when an article is published, and all appear on NewsNow Charlton page too.
It also published a magasine TNT with a circulation of 3000 plus free of charge, and available online unlike any other CAFC fan mag
The Trust also posted on here, but folk said it was too much
Many Trust people are on the message boards
So I think your analysis is a little unfair, but I am sure the people now on the TB will take it on board
As said previously; the communications strategy is "perfect".. For existing members.
Right now the fans seem more united than in a long time. Do a recruitment push and see how successful it is: people want to subscribe to the very ideals the trust represents - preservation of our club.
In reality though the communications don't extend that far and thats a problem. Not just for fans who see the trust as sitting on the fence and/or silent; but for the trust who are missing a golden time to get more funds and members.
Mentioning trust people on message boards is awkward as, understandably, they can't officially say anything until its the party line. That's fine because it would ruin the group if they did anything else; it would be a rabble and not an organization.
I personally will renew when I get home tonight, you have my word on that. I'll also subscribe to the newsletter and follow your social media channels. I'm not a hypocrite and can see that's what I'm asking for essentially.
Depending on what's actually being released then it IS time for the members to step up and help spread the word; but you have a receptive group of members - just look at how much anti regime stuff is spreading. Trust publications should also be spreading like that.
their position has been made clear many times in my view
Actually @razil, with all due respect and sincerety, I've been entirely unaware of their position until about 5 minutes ago. I've been on CharltonLife pretty much constantly recently what with the protests and various bits of news, and similarly I've been monitoring a lot of social media - i.e Twitter. Something tells me I may actually be keeping my finger on the pulse a bit more than the average fan at the moment.
I'll let you know how I found out their position 5 minutes ago; I checked their website. To be completely fair, - there are a few articles on the main page, and I've bookmarked them and will read them when I'm on the train home. Then again, perhaps I shouldn't have to go on to their website and purposefully check for their position though?
Maybe I'm wrong, but when thousands of supporters of a given football club are protesting - and many individual fans have given their views on the radio - I expect to know the position of their Supporters Trust without having to dig it out myself on their website? I really would've expected to have been made aware in other ways; how come I know the views of individual fans (Olly, Mike and others from the radio for instance) but not our own Supporters Trust? (I may remember an article from around Boxing Day - I'm not sure if that was from The Trust. However, I certainly cannot remember its content.)
I understand the Trust are no doubt running another survey or something similar to gauge member feelings: but given the extremity of this situation I still find the silence and lack of action to be deeply disappointing.
Now isn't the time for starting an argument internally, that plays in to the hands of the regime, so I'm not trying to start one. However, I'm offering my personal point of view - not only as a concerned Charlton fan, but a lapsed trust member who didn't renew his membership because.. well, he found it relatively easy to forget the trust even existed.
The Trust, as an idea at least, is a very important concept and organisation. However I fear it could be doing a bit more to be relevant and providing a voice.
A little bit harsh to criticise an organisation for being silent on the subject of the protests when by your own admission they have a number of links / articles / opportunities to contribute to the protests on the first page of their easily accessible website. That sounds like hypocrisy to me.
As a founder of the Trust alongside @razil I completely agree with you that supporters Trusts are incredibly important, and increasingly so as English football continues to change, however as a board member until very recently I appreciate there really is a complicated role to play and I think they're playing it fairly well.
I fear you've misunderstood my point; and in some ways proved it - I didn't even know those articles existed. I had a brief recollection of one article, and I'm not even sure if that was from the trust now I think about it more.
It's not much use having access to a collection of articles if you don't know they exist, that was my situation. I have no reason to regularly check the Trust website, I'm not a member anymore nor have I heard a great deal about them of late - little comments about them here and there, but nothing substantial enough to want to make me check their site.
You can't simply communicate through your own website. Communicating solely through your website is excellent if you know your entire target audience visits it, but that's not the case with The Trust. If you check any analytics you have, I'm willing to hazard a guess that the monthly average for unique views is less than the numbr of subscribers? If that's the case, only communicating via the website is a good way to shrink your membership too. What's more, there's a very obvious bias by only communicating via channels you control: people who don't agree with you probably wont be taking the effort to read your site.
Your intended audience are the fans of Charlton, and that audience is larger than just the visitors of the trust website, and as such I feel the Trust needs to be doing more to engage and communicate with fans as a whole. What's more, they should be reassuring those same fans that they are aware of the current circumstances and are intending on doing something.
I just think you're expecting far, far too much from an organisation that is really driven by a handful of volunteers. Very easy to criticise and say "they should be doing this, that and the other" but realistically they only have a finite amount of time and resource to expend and need to choose how best to do that, at the moment I think they're spending it fairly well.
Because the protests and other fan actions haven't been driven by a handful of volunteers? The success they've had has been pretty incredible really, just ask James Corden or Stan Collymore.
Look, I've hijacked this thread now - and that was never my intention. Perhaps it's time for a new thread, but as far as I'm concerned I've made my own opinion known and that's all I wanted to do.
Apologies to Airman Brown and other people who came here to discuss the topic of his interview.
really don't get what people have against surveys, they inform us all of real fan opinion pretty darned valuable, but hey ho.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
So, if KM has ignored all your suggestions and attempt at dialogue - why hasn't the stance changed ? Why still wait around ? Why the emphasis on dialogue ?
really don't get what people have against surveys, they inform us all of real fan opinion pretty darned valuable, but hey ho.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
So, if KM has ignored all your suggestions and attempt at dialogue - why hasn't the stance changed ? Why still wait around ? Why the emphasis on dialogue ?
For clarity - @razil isn't the chair of the Trust, he's just giving his insight from when he was chair.
As a semi-retired journalist, I can assure the club that the one way to guarantee hostile coverage is to blank the press. They will smell a story, and if you refuse to play ball then there will be a lot of those opposing you who will readily speak.
Agreed. It's hard to see why they wouldn't go on the record saying that the club is not for sale, if nothing else, if that is true.
Maybe they want to sell to another bidder.....
As I've suggested before there IS other current interest and I have no doubt that RM would steer them in that direction if he could, but from RD's perspective I can't see why he wouldn't want a bidding competition if he was open to selling.
Other current interest from a bidder other than PV?
As a semi-retired journalist, I can assure the club that the one way to guarantee hostile coverage is to blank the press. They will smell a story, and if you refuse to play ball then there will be a lot of those opposing you who will readily speak.
Agreed. It's hard to see why they wouldn't go on the record saying that the club is not for sale, if nothing else, if that is true.
Maybe they want to sell to another bidder.....
As I've suggested before there IS other current interest and I have no doubt that RM would steer them in that direction if he could, but from RD's perspective I can't see why he wouldn't want a bidding competition if he was open to selling.
Other current interest from a bidder other than PV?
By having a second group interested would, to me, indicate that RD would consider an offer.
People do not just wake up and say 'I know, lets go and buy a football club'
I firmly believe that at least a hint has been thrown out by someone connected with the club.
Hi @alan dugdale As documented on here previously the meeting in Woolwich (which was intended to find out what was happening ito cause the fan Exodus) decided to get the Trust to continue to seek dialogue.
KM then later around Spring time said in an interview she would try again to have communication with fans groups.
Agreed cafc999 it feels like something is happening. What about the players arriving now too. What's driving that? I'd it Rd saying keep the ship afloat or is it related to possible investment
I think we are better served venting our anger at the CEO rather than the trust.
I think the trust do an excellent job personally - I can understand people's concerns over the speed of change in their stance, but I think that that is because they are the official voice of the fans (for the moment).
It was always a BIG statement for them to say - we want RD out.
Just because a lot of us on here are gun ho for getting them out (and momentum builds) doesn't mean that's the case for the non CL trust members, and even all the CL trust members.
The chap in front of me on Saturday (doesn't go on here - I don't think) was completely against all the #standupifyouwantthemout stuff and was quite animated we should all just sit down and support the team. That's his view. I don't agree with it as I was getting quite worked up the other way.
What if he's a trust member? He's told me he's grateful for RD's investment, he probably wouldn't want the trust to openly go against the owners.
I just think the trust takes too much of a battering on here and we tend to concern ourselves with what CL is saying, rather than what the many fans who support Charlton who don't come on here are saying
As a semi-retired journalist, I can assure the club that the one way to guarantee hostile coverage is to blank the press. They will smell a story, and if you refuse to play ball then there will be a lot of those opposing you who will readily speak.
Agreed. It's hard to see why they wouldn't go on the record saying that the club is not for sale, if nothing else, if that is true.
Maybe they want to sell to another bidder.....
As I've suggested before there IS other current interest and I have no doubt that RM would steer them in that direction if he could, but from RD's perspective I can't see why he wouldn't want a bidding competition if he was open to selling.
Other current interest from a bidder other than PV?
I would say this, but I'm incredulous at some of the criticism on here. We're not perfect, definitely not above criticism, but some of it is so far off beam and opportunistic it's, ahem, beyond parody.
Firstly we were among the first to express concern at this regime. We were also the first to publicly organise supporters - members or not - to discuss what they wanted to do next. Some of those quick to criticise now were first in line to throw mud at the idea of the public meeting, conveniently forgotten I see.
Yet a handful of games and a few wins after the public meeting people seemed to forget the woes and looked forward to the new season, leaving us somewhat in limbo.
Yet throughout this time the Trust has continued to work the very action - yes, ACTION, Henry - that the supporters demanded of us and reiterated twice since: to get the club talking to us, to tell us about their plans for the club, to get a structure for ongoing meaningful dialogue. They started to talk to us more meaningfully in November but the club has since - shall we say - moved very (too) slowly in getting the formal dialogue going.
We have very consistently and frequently communicated through a variety of channels, including Charlton Life, that we are leading on one aspect of action: to influence the club directly through conversation. Others are leading on the protests.
The time may well come when we abandon the option we're leading on, but criticism that we're doing nothing is absolutely misplaced. I also think it's a bit rich when we were criticised for doing something earlier in the year, and when it's by people not prepared to join the Trust and strengthen our arm.
We have at least been consistent. We've not been silent on it. We've taken a lot of criticism regardless of what we do, and the actions of previous boards are conflated with the current one as if time hasn't passed or circumstances haven't changed. It may not be to everyone's timescales, it may not be everyone's preference, but we're a mutual society working to the benefit of our members - our objectives are somewhat broader of course, but it seems incongruous for those who were telling us 9 months "you don't speak for me" to now be demanding we're leading protests for everyone.
really don't get what people have against surveys, they inform us all of real fan opinion pretty darned valuable, but hey ho.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
Herein lies the problem. By your own words as ex Chair of CASTrust it seems pretty clear that Miere has consistently declined meetings, failed to listen and ignored ovatures from The Trust since day one. They don't care about supporters trusts. Supporters are nothing more than paying customers to them. I suspect if truth be known that Meire would be over the moon if The Trust just disappeared.
I of course understand and applaud the persistence of you and others in trying to drive things forward but there does come a time when the penny must drop. Dialogue is a two way thing. I think the Trust have been strung along and must now to use Airmans wording "align itself with the protest"
What is The Trust risking exactly ? A breakdown of non communication ? I believe it risks far more by its perceived inactivity by being viewed as irrelevant by its membership.
The fan base has now had enough of the Belgian and things can't ever go back to how they were. I believe I am right in saying that the trust membership now want the trust to fully engage and I mean fully to oust this cancerous regime.
really don't get what people have against surveys, they inform us all of real fan opinion pretty darned valuable, but hey ho.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
Herein lies the problem. By your own words as ex Chair of CASTrust it seems pretty clear that Miere has consistently declined meetings, failed to listen and ignored ovatures from The Trust since day one. They don't care about supporters trusts. Supporters are nothing more than paying customers to them. I suspect if truth be known that Meire would be over the moon if The Trust just disappeared.
I of course understand and applaud the persistence of you and others in trying to drive things forward but there does come a time when the penny must drop. Dialogue is a two way thing. I think the Trust have been strung along and must now to use Airmans wording "align itself with the protest"
What is The Trust risking exactly ? A breakdown of non communication ? I believe it risks far more by its perceived inactivity by being viewed as irrelevant by its membership.
The fan base has now had enough of the Belgian and things can't ever go back to how they were. I believe I am right in saying that the trust membership now want the trust to fully engage and I mean fully to oust this cancerous regime.
The main reason I resigned was that I no longer believed a meaningful dialogue possible, due to the refusal to talk about the exodus, followed by the insulting pr campaign.
However its not up to me to tell fans what to do, it was time to let others try and achieve something, with a fresh outlook and new energy, and the Woolwich meeting suggested they should do so.
So no, it wasn't pretty clear to most, quite the opposite.
I would say this, but I'm incredulous at some of the criticism on here. We're not perfect, definitely not above criticism, but some of it is so far off beam and opportunistic it's, ahem, beyond parody.
Firstly we were among the first to express concern at this regime. We were also the first to publicly organise supporters - members or not - to discuss what they wanted to do next. Some of those quick to criticise now were first in line to throw mud at the idea of the public meeting, conveniently forgotten I see.
Yet a handful of games and a few wins after the public meeting people seemed to forget the woes and looked forward to the new season, leaving us somewhat in limbo.
Yet throughout this time the Trust has continued to work the very action - yes, ACTION, Henry - that the supporters demanded of us and reiterated twice since: to get the club talking to us, to tell us about their plans for the club, to get a structure for ongoing meaningful dialogue. They started to talk to us more meaningfully in November but the club has since - shall we say - moved very (too) slowly in getting the formal dialogue going.
We have very consistently and frequently communicated through a variety of channels, including Charlton Life, that we are leading on one aspect of action: to influence the club directly through conversation. Others are leading on the protests.
The time may well come when we abandon the option we're leading on, but criticism that we're doing nothing is absolutely misplaced. I also think it's a bit rich when we were criticised for doing something earlier in the year, and when it's by people not prepared to join the Trust and strengthen our arm.
We have at least been consistent. We've not been silent on it. We've taken a lot of criticism regardless of what we do, and the actions of previous boards are conflated with the current one as if time hasn't passed or circumstances haven't changed. It may not be to everyone's timescales, it may not be everyone's preference, but we're a mutual society working to the benefit of our members - our objectives are somewhat broader of course, but it seems incongruous for those who were telling us 9 months "you don't speak for me" to now be demanding we're leading protests for everyone.
But you are after chats about their plans (which we know) and to get into a position to advise them (but the majority want new owners no matter what). So your aim is pointless even if you are following a (dated)mandate.
Ask us members 2 questions:
A. Do you want Duchatalet to sell
And
B. Should the Trust start plans to disrupt and drive out the current owners including Murray
Comments
It is now time to draw a line in the sand, the trust must make their presence truly felt and must fully stand up to these fools and actively push for more demonstrations.
If one thing is for certain the one good thing KM has done is to unite the Charlton fans, albeit against her and the rest of the puppets.
Come on the trust the gloves are off no fence sitting, no siding up to the hopeless Murray full out revolution is called for.
You may recall the Trust called a meeting in Woolwich in which real fans voices were heard, how many of the current protestors went, certainly not all.
Then there are a number of articles published over the period in TNT and on their site?
The Trust also did a flash survey about Powell's departure and were heavily criticised.
Perhaps these among other items have slipped the memory?
When I had a rare meeting with KM - I recommended to her in very strong terms, to get out to fans and reassure them of the business plan. She ignored that.
I also wrote to her requesting a meeting Xmas 2014 with concerns about the exodus of our fans, she declined, which lead to the meeting mentioned above.
In an article on here I posted in the summer that Duch must break his golden rule and pointing out some weaknesses in the squad, many ridiculed it, then the reality of the situation hit and the squad crumbled.
In reality most fans have only recently started getting the hump with the regime, as the strategy has gradually emerged in full - I don't think you can blame the Trust, but that's just my view
It's not much use having access to a collection of articles if you don't know they exist, that was my situation. I have no reason to regularly check the Trust website, I'm not a member anymore nor have I heard a great deal about them of late - little comments about them here and there, but nothing substantial enough to want to make me check their site.
You can't simply communicate through your own website. Communicating solely through your website is excellent if you know your entire target audience visits it, but that's not the case with The Trust. If you check any analytics you have, I'm willing to hazard a guess that the monthly average for unique views is less than the numbr of subscribers? If that's the case, only communicating via the website is a good way to shrink your membership too. What's more, there's a very obvious bias by only communicating via channels you control: people who don't agree with you probably wont be taking the effort to read your site.
Your intended audience are the fans of Charlton, and that audience is larger than just the visitors of the trust website, and as such I feel the Trust needs to be doing more to engage and communicate with fans as a whole. What's more, they should be reassuring those same fans that they are aware of the current circumstances and are intending on doing something.
The other day I emailed the Trust expressing my concerns and posted a copy on here hoping that other members would do likewise.
I have yet to receive a response to that email but do understand that volunteers have other calls on their time particularly at this time of the year.
However, to briefly paraphrase what I understand to be the position of @rikofold re the unrest surrounding Valley Gold (VG), namely that VG could become an unintended casualty of the protests I think there is a very real danger that the same could be true of the Supporters' Trust.
Yes the mandate was negotiation but, to use a Charlton Life cliche, events have "moved on" and in my view the Trust has to not only react but be seen to react.
I say all this to be constructive not critical and hope, given my previous support, that my comments will be accepted as such.
The surveys are a necessity. I understand that completely, and it does build up an accurate picture of our support if done properly - that's great. But come on... there were over a thousand people chanting outside the ground for an hour the other day; that's a pretty good indicator of mood too.
As I've mentioned above, the newsletter/TNT/site isn't the best communication tool. In normal circumstances it's probably perfect, but right now I really feel the best option is engaging in as wide a channel as possible - let everyone know you're here and you're considering doing something. This is the time we need our Trust, don't let people forget you exist.
People are always going to criticise, the Chris Powell survey was clearly about a divisive issue and to be fair the amount of in-fan arguments at the time are probably one reason behind the negative reception. Look beyond that and see what people are saying now; before people lose faith. I've tried to be constructive in my criticism personally.
You've said yourself Katrien ignored you when you got to talk to her, so what do you think will be achieved by seeking a meeting again? She doesn't care sadly, and I think it may be a waste of energy trying to see her - and a further waste of energy communicating with her. Let her be.
I designed the communications infrastructure for the Trust
You could as a member receive daily updates, or weekly, as a member or non-member subscriber
You would also have been written to when you didn't renew
The Trust also has a stall on a number of match days
You can subscribe to twitter and Facebook both of which would update you immediately pretty much when an article is published, and all appear on NewsNow Charlton page too.
It also published a magasine TNT with a circulation of 3000 plus free of charge, and available online unlike any other CAFC fan mag
The Trust also posted on here, but folk said it was too much
Many Trust people are on the message boards
So I think your analysis is a little unfair, but I am sure the people now on the TB will take it on board
Right now the fans seem more united than in a long time. Do a recruitment push and see how successful it is: people want to subscribe to the very ideals the trust represents - preservation of our club.
In reality though the communications don't extend that far and thats a problem. Not just for fans who see the trust as sitting on the fence and/or silent; but for the trust who are missing a golden time to get more funds and members.
Mentioning trust people on message boards is awkward as, understandably, they can't officially say anything until its the party line. That's fine because it would ruin the group if they did anything else; it would be a rabble and not an organization.
I personally will renew when I get home tonight, you have my word on that. I'll also subscribe to the newsletter and follow your social media channels. I'm not a hypocrite and can see that's what I'm asking for essentially.
Depending on what's actually being released then it IS time for the members to step up and help spread the word; but you have a receptive group of members - just look at how much anti regime stuff is spreading. Trust publications should also be spreading like that.
Look, I've hijacked this thread now - and that was never my intention. Perhaps it's time for a new thread, but as far as I'm concerned I've made my own opinion known and that's all I wanted to do.
Apologies to Airman Brown and other people who came here to discuss the topic of his interview.
When/why did that happen?
People do not just wake up and say 'I know, lets go and buy a football club'
I firmly believe that at least a hint has been thrown out by someone connected with the club.
KM then later around Spring time said in an interview she would try again to have communication with fans groups.
It was always a BIG statement for them to say - we want RD out.
Just because a lot of us on here are gun ho for getting them out (and momentum builds) doesn't mean that's the case for the non CL trust members, and even all the CL trust members.
The chap in front of me on Saturday (doesn't go on here - I don't think) was completely against all the #standupifyouwantthemout stuff and was quite animated we should all just sit down and support the team. That's his view. I don't agree with it as I was getting quite worked up the other way.
What if he's a trust member? He's told me he's grateful for RD's investment, he probably wouldn't want the trust to openly
go against the owners.
I just think the trust takes too much of a battering on here and we tend to concern ourselves with what CL is saying, rather than what the many fans who support Charlton who don't come on here are saying
Firstly we were among the first to express concern at this regime. We were also the first to publicly organise supporters - members or not - to discuss what they wanted to do next. Some of those quick to criticise now were first in line to throw mud at the idea of the public meeting, conveniently forgotten I see.
Yet a handful of games and a few wins after the public meeting people seemed to forget the woes and looked forward to the new season, leaving us somewhat in limbo.
Yet throughout this time the Trust has continued to work the very action - yes, ACTION, Henry - that the supporters demanded of us and reiterated twice since: to get the club talking to us, to tell us about their plans for the club, to get a structure for ongoing meaningful dialogue. They started to talk to us more meaningfully in November but the club has since - shall we say - moved very (too) slowly in getting the formal dialogue going.
We have very consistently and frequently communicated through a variety of channels, including Charlton Life, that we are leading on one aspect of action: to influence the club directly through conversation. Others are leading on the protests.
The time may well come when we abandon the option we're leading on, but criticism that we're doing nothing is absolutely misplaced. I also think it's a bit rich when we were criticised for doing something earlier in the year, and when it's by people not prepared to join the Trust and strengthen our arm.
We have at least been consistent. We've not been silent on it. We've taken a lot of criticism regardless of what we do, and the actions of previous boards are conflated with the current one as if time hasn't passed or circumstances haven't changed. It may not be to everyone's timescales, it may not be everyone's preference, but we're a mutual society working to the benefit of our members - our objectives are somewhat broader of course, but it seems incongruous for those who were telling us 9 months "you don't speak for me" to now be demanding we're leading protests for everyone.
I of course understand and applaud the persistence of you and others in trying to drive things forward but there does come a time when the penny must drop. Dialogue is a two way thing. I think the Trust have been strung along and must now to use Airmans wording "align itself with the protest"
What is The Trust risking exactly ? A breakdown of non communication ? I believe it risks far more by its perceived inactivity by being viewed as irrelevant by its membership.
The fan base has now had enough of the Belgian and things can't ever go back to how they were. I believe I am right in saying that the trust membership now want the trust to fully engage and I mean fully to oust this cancerous regime.
Do yhey actually think that the Airman will let this slide?
They obviously don't know him well at all.
Do they actually think the supporters, the so-called 2%, the crowd that gathered after Forest, aare going to go away quietly?
They don't know about Addicks and the Battle for The Valley.
However its not up to me to tell fans what to do, it was time to let others try and achieve something, with a fresh outlook and new energy, and the Woolwich meeting suggested they should do so.
So no, it wasn't pretty clear to most, quite the opposite.
Ask us members 2 questions:
A. Do you want Duchatalet to sell
And
B. Should the Trust start plans to disrupt and drive out the current owners including Murray