i think the appointment of the next manager is critical - he needs to be good and he needs to be given the power to choose his own players and play the formation he wants - this 'director of football' model also came about at the time curbs left - bowyer and powell were given the full reigns but how many others have had players pushed on to them and styles of play imposed - give warnock a year with total control and he'll have put together a team that will go straight up and we will be back where we belong and where most of us will be happy with
If you have the right manager this is the way. If you take football out of it, I have seen it in my working life where some people can almost instinctively get to the heart of a problem, see what needs to be done and then take people with them. It looks so simple but so many can't do it. You might have an events manager say who instictively can see what needs to be done, the important milestones and the risks and it looks like it is an easy job they are doing. Then you have one that doesn't and chaos and problems arise from all sides and they bat it off and it looks like they are doing a difficult job. They might even be more appreciated. There are multiple examples and I think they relate to football too. It is a reason, when I read Garner saying he thought there was only way of playing football, I groaned. You play the way you need to play with what you have or can get to win FFS!
I think a good manager has to understand every problem which is affecting the performance of the team. Then he needs to identify solutions. He can't do the second bit without the first bit. These may not always be easy as the problems may involve the personnel you have. Some you can improve others are just not right. It may not be individuals but attributes that need changing overall, being harder, dirtier, have more goals, more quality.... I could go on but the manager decides what he needs within what he can achieve and sets about doing it. Powell saw it was most of the personnel that needed changing. Others may change tactics or bring in one or two of a certain type. For others it may be an evolution. But this is what needs to happen and quickly. Maybe people closer to the players will let them have more say in what they think might be wrong. Maybe being closer to the players they already have an idea. That is often a good way to get to the truth of it.
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
FWIW I don't think we are likely to get out of this state all the time we have the wrong people at the helm.
Whilst it's on the pitch that matters, even success like Bowyer managed won't last without the right people running it at the top.
In reality whether Owner/CEO/COO/Chairman etc etc and those they employ have in the main been dreadful for 10+ years and I've seen nothing from the latest crowd to think we've now got the right people, far from it.
How do we know we don’t have the right people running it? By all accounts they have been working to improve the running of things behind the scenes and it seems clear they get what needs to be done. If we were top of the league (ultimately it’s the performance of the first team that matters) people would be quite happy with the owners.
Many of us know what needs to be done, but would we (in all seriousness) be totally competent in running a football club?
Rodwell and Scott know what needs to be done, but have so far on many occasions done the opposite of what they said was needed/would be doing.
Plus they seem to have all the questions, but very few suggestions let alone answers.
FWIW I don't think we are likely to get out of this state all the time we have the wrong people at the helm.
Whilst it's on the pitch that matters, even success like Bowyer managed won't last without the right people running it at the top.
In reality whether Owner/CEO/COO/Chairman etc etc and those they employ have in the main been dreadful for 10+ years and I've seen nothing from the latest crowd to think we've now got the right people, far from it.
How do we know we don’t have the right people running it? By all accounts they have been working to improve the running of things behind the scenes and it seems clear they get what needs to be done. If we were top of the league (ultimately it’s the performance of the first team that matters) people would be quite happy with the owners.
The proof is the decisions made and why Charlton are in peril of relegation to League 2. The first team and squad balance was clearly flawed for this season. Hiring Appleton in the first place and his cheaper assistant was the cutting corners option. Injuries will also expose a mediocre Head coach (manager), like on many previous occassions at Charlton. The team should have secured more points and the late goals conceeded were not addressed by Appleton.
Curtis Fleming was put in place as an interim if / when they sacked Appleton. Appleton was going to get fired after Northampton, but for some reason he was left in place for that game. That was 3 points thrown away, and given how close Charlton are to the relegation drop, that was really poor decision making.
Andy Scott says the right things and a couple of staffing appointments look ok (the bloke from Brighton). Overall its not promising as evidenced by the current league position. Hopefully Chucks can return for enough games and remain fit sufficiently to help secure league one status. Also that the interim team and incoming head coach are able to use playing resources better to get enough points together.
The next appointment needs to ensure that the team is harder to beat and more durable. All, we have is to hope that Scott, Rodwell and Methven are learning from their mistakes made so far. It is an excellent concise article from AB. The current senior management team have a lot to prove.
Thanks for the comments. I am genuinely interested in the feedback.
I quite often get called by reporters asking for background on events at Charlton and on this occasion was then asked to write something. It was the paper’s idea not mine, but obviously it’s something I like doing, I have the experience to understand the brief and I have the facts at my fingertips, so it’s not hard for me to do.
It may or may not be obvious that you have to write for the audience, only a small fraction of whom are going to know the background in this case. So this is not the same piece I would have written for a Charlton focused outlet.
I don’t subscribe to the view that football is just about results, as much as we can agree that they are important. I do think football clubs are organic, they grow from within themselves and they can be destroyed by people who don’t understand what they are doing, whatever their motives. The single most important thing is the connection that people feel. Honestly, we are clinging on in that respect. That’s why managers who are ex-players have had an advantage (and Powell is just an extraordinarily warm person).
I’m not arguing for a return to the 2000s or looking for any personal involvement. Apart from anything else, I’m busy doing something else which is a one-off opportunity and I owe that my best shot. But I do question why the club doesn’t understand the capacity to contribute that exists within the fanbase and utilise it. We wrote the handbook on this and it is not (just) about selling lottery tickets and the like. It is utilising people with knowledge and professional skills the club doesn’t have, for example Lauren Kreamer’s contribution in the 2020 court cases.
My working hypothesis is that this is because there is another agenda shared between Methven, Lenegan, Warrick, Rodwell and Scott which would be exposed or undermined. I don’t doubt they want the team to win games, but I don’t trust them and I don’t like what I hear about them or the manipulation of fans on social media through deniable off the record briefings.
Football is a business but succeeding at it isn’t just working the numbers. If you cut out the fans you are grasping at air.
Twenty years ago this week, Charlton were fourth in the Premier League, well clear of Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City.
Should have pushed on
Being happy with 4th lacks ambition.
It was Scott Parker going mid season that stuffed things up. Chelsea didn't need him and bought him to mess up a competitor's team. Never forgive them for that.
Turn around is not easy. All parts of the organisation have to be aligned. The vision/ ambition needs to be clarified and from the ground up. Each employee needs to be certain of their role in achieving the ambition. The Manager/ Head coach need to be supported in terms of their development on the grass and off it.(Bower had big potential but big flaws). Each employee has to “ win their individual battles” when the going gets tough. It can be done, with inspired leadership. Do we have it?
Twenty years ago this week, Charlton were fourth in the Premier League, well clear of Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City.
Should have pushed on
Being happy with 4th lacks ambition.
It was Scott Parker going mid season that stuffed things up. Chelsea didn't need him and bought him to mess up a competitor's team. Never forgive them for that.
That + cocking up Curbs’ successor but we’ve gone this a million times.
I sighed at this: "news that consultants had been hired to develop new support locally and to improve the matchday experience."
That money would be better spent on the three most important things: the football, the football and the football.
100% this. The ground could be falling down around me for all I care. The match day experience is the rush of a team playing well and the crowd getting excited with every attack. We last had that under Bowyer. An example was that Luton home game when we beat them 3-1. I recall that second half. Obviously there are numerous examples of that in Powell’s title season and under Curbs, but none of Adkins, Jackson, garner, Holden or Appleton ever got that because the club has and remains in such a mess
All this utter bollocks about match day experience and optimising commercial revenue. It’s delusional in the same way we have flat earthers
Twenty years ago this week, Charlton were fourth in the Premier League, well clear of Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City.
Should have pushed on
Being happy with 4th lacks ambition.
It was Scott Parker going mid season that stuffed things up. Chelsea didn't need him and bought him to mess up a competitor's team. Never forgive them for that.
To make matters worse Millwall took the last European spot by virtue of reaching the FA Cup final. Never forgive and never forget Parker.
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
Not selling to AEG before that. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Can you expand a bit on the AEG thing? When was it and why didn’t it happen? Was it a credible prospect?
It’s the one takeover or failed acquisition over the last 20 years I don’t really know anything about, other than being vaguely aware! Is that where the move to the Peninsula rumours originate from?
Good management in its widest sense is vital. The most important ingredient is money. Thomas did not have enough at £100M. A club will not survive and develop on the revenue it raises, lottery tickets etc are “ pocket money”. Clubs cost so much to run that an owner needs to input their own money, how many can do that? Cutting costs only achieves so much and clubs like ours probably have little left to cut. Not owning the assets does not help. i have stood on the terraces admired Stuart Leary, wanted to be Len Glover, been in the school team trying to head a ball like Matt Tees. Further hero’s like Killer Hales. Had my piece of grass from the Valley in the garden after leaving for Palarse. Even off to Selhurst for Division One days.
Was now in a season ticket seat for the Back to the Valley, loved Premier League days. We had a number of average players that became great eg John Robinson, Brownie, Jon Fortune, Kishi plus some real class players. I am not happy to say I see no future good prospects for the club.
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
when we sold parker (i know we didn't want to) was the moment the trajectory changed - at that point we had raised our heads above the parapet and got picked off and if there was a time to bring in new investment so we could give AC the funds to adequately re build, it was then - after that we were treading water and although AC did a good job with what he had, it was only a matter of time - you can only pull rabbits out of the hat for so long and once he inevitably left, the over performing ended and the under performing started.
Was there ever a point in time when we were just "performing"?
(Apologies for bringing a bit of whimsy to a serious thread)
I sighed at this: "news that consultants had been hired to develop new support locally and to improve the matchday experience."
That money would be better spent on the three most important things: the football, the football and the football.
100% this. The ground could be falling down around me for all I care. The match day experience is the rush of a team playing well and the crowd getting excited with every attack. We last had that under Bowyer. An example was that Luton home game when we beat them 3-1. I recall that second half. Obviously there are numerous examples of that in Powell’s title season and under Curbs, but none of Adkins, Jackson, garner, Holden or Appleton ever got that because the club has and remains in such a mess
All this utter bollocks about match day experience and optimising commercial revenue. It’s delusional in the same way we have flat earthers
Another vote for both these comments.
If I moved to a new town with a choice of EPL/Championship clubs in the vicinity, and there was an advertising campaign for a local club in the lower reaches of the EPL, what would I do? Would I be looking first at its catering facilities? Unlikely if I live nearby! I would be asking my new neighbours and workmates if the football was any good - that would be the top "matchday experience" I would be interested in. Apply this to Charlton, and what sort of response would I get this season?
Improve the football - making it exciting to watch, win, draw or lose - and not only will existing fans attend more often, but they will be more likely to encourage that new neighbour or workmate to join them. And I won't even charge Charlton a consultancy fee for this advice!
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
Not selling to AEG before that. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Is that the same group that took over the O2 and were Man U shirt sponsors for a time? Anschutz Entertainment as distinct from the electrical appliances maker?
If the choice was L1 survival with a manager who doesn't get the club v L2 rebuild with a manager who does, what would you prefer?
The chances of a rebuild from Division 4 are too feint to consider Relegation would be terminal Survive this season by any means possible, only then is the choice of manager relevant
I sighed at this: "news that consultants had been hired to develop new support locally and to improve the matchday experience."
That money would be better spent on the three most important things: the football, the football and the football.
Exactly, what a load of bollocks. "consultants had been hired" Try asking the fans how to improve the "matchday experience" ( win a few games would be a start) Develop new support ? Why would anybody decide they wanted to support a club on the verge of relegation to the lowest level they would ever have appeared at ? If they were serious there's plenty of people around who were involved in Target 10 thousand etc. who they could consult. Or maybe the consultants happen to be a firm that methven is involved with ?
Twenty years ago this week, Charlton were fourth in the Premier League, well clear of Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City.
Should have pushed on
Being happy with 4th lacks ambition.
It was Scott Parker going mid season that stuffed things up. Chelsea didn't need him and bought him to mess up a competitor's team. Never forgive them for that.
To make matters worse Millwall took the last European spot by virtue of reaching the FA Cup final. Never forgive and never forget Parker.
But I got a great trip to Budapest and had breakfast with Ray Wilkins. So it weren’t all bad 😜
Nothing stays the same. it went wrong when Richard Murray ( in general a good Chairman) got a bit “ big for his boots”. We should have stayed “ little old Charlton”. curbs needed two experienced players at a modest sum. He did not get them. Curbs left. Murray played a silly game and appointed Dowie. Dowie got more money for transfers than Curbs ever got- he bought rubbish.
End of story.
In a nutshell. Not only did Dowie buy rubbish - he was rubbish.
Twenty years ago this week, Charlton were fourth in the Premier League, well clear of Liverpool, Tottenham and Manchester City.
Should have pushed on
Being happy with 4th lacks ambition.
It was Scott Parker going mid season that stuffed things up. Chelsea didn't need him and bought him to mess up a competitor's team. Never forgive them for that.
To make matters worse Millwall took the last European spot by virtue of reaching the FA Cup final. Never forgive and never forget Parker.
But I got a great trip to Budapest and had breakfast with Ray Wilkins. So it weren’t all bad 😜
Hope you were sitting next to him, rather than opposite when you asked him to pass the salt?
Good piece. I often wonder if you could pick one single point in history where you could pinpoint 'where did it all go wrong?' what would it be I keep coming back to the very second Alan Curbishley walked out of the door.
Selling Parker to Chelsea - the long decline started at that point.
Comments
I think a good manager has to understand every problem which is affecting the performance of the team. Then he needs to identify solutions. He can't do the second bit without the first bit. These may not always be easy as the problems may involve the personnel you have. Some you can improve others are just not right. It may not be individuals but attributes that need changing overall, being harder, dirtier, have more goals, more quality.... I could go on but the manager decides what he needs within what he can achieve and sets about doing it. Powell saw it was most of the personnel that needed changing. Others may change tactics or bring in one or two of a certain type. For others it may be an evolution. But this is what needs to happen and quickly. Maybe people closer to the players will let them have more say in what they think might be wrong. Maybe being closer to the players they already have an idea. That is often a good way to get to the truth of it.
It was the moment that clown Dowie walked through the door.
Rodwell and Scott know what needs to be done, but have so far on many occasions done the opposite of what they said was needed/would be doing.
Plus they seem to have all the questions, but very few suggestions let alone answers.
Being happy with 4th lacks ambition.
I quite often get called by reporters asking for background on events at Charlton and on this occasion was then asked to write something. It was the paper’s idea not mine, but obviously it’s something I like doing, I have the experience to understand the brief and I have the facts at my fingertips, so it’s not hard for me to do.
I don’t subscribe to the view that football is just about results, as much as we can agree that they are important. I do think football clubs are organic, they grow from within themselves and they can be destroyed by people who don’t understand what they are doing, whatever their motives. The single most important thing is the connection that people feel. Honestly, we are clinging on in that respect. That’s why managers who are ex-players have had an advantage (and Powell is just an extraordinarily warm person).
I’m not arguing for a return to the 2000s or looking for any personal involvement. Apart from anything else, I’m busy doing something else which is a one-off opportunity and I owe that my best shot. But I do question why the club doesn’t understand the capacity to contribute that exists within the fanbase and utilise it. We wrote the handbook on this and it is not (just) about selling lottery tickets and the like. It is utilising people with knowledge and professional skills the club doesn’t have, for example Lauren Kreamer’s contribution in the 2020 court cases.
It was Scott Parker going mid season that stuffed things up. Chelsea didn't need him and bought him to mess up a competitor's team. Never forgive them for that.
All this utter bollocks about match day experience and optimising commercial revenue. It’s delusional in the same way we have flat earthers
Never forgive and never forget Parker.
Thomas did not have enough at £100M. A club will not survive and develop on the revenue it raises, lottery tickets etc are “ pocket money”.
Clubs cost so much to run that an owner needs to input their own money, how many can do that? Cutting costs only achieves so much and clubs like ours probably have little left to cut. Not owning the assets does not help.
i have stood on the terraces admired Stuart Leary, wanted to be Len Glover, been in the school team trying to head a ball like Matt Tees. Further hero’s like Killer Hales. Had my piece of grass from the Valley in the garden after leaving for Palarse. Even off to Selhurst for Division One days.
I am not happy to say I see no future good prospects for the club.
(Apologies for bringing a bit of whimsy to a serious thread)
If I moved to a new town with a choice of EPL/Championship clubs in the vicinity, and there was an advertising campaign for a local club in the lower reaches of the EPL, what would I do?
Would I be looking first at its catering facilities? Unlikely if I live nearby!
I would be asking my new neighbours and workmates if the football was any good - that would be the top "matchday experience" I would be interested in. Apply this to Charlton, and what sort of response would I get this season?
Improve the football - making it exciting to watch, win, draw or lose - and not only will existing fans attend more often, but they will be more likely to encourage that new neighbour or workmate to join them. And I won't even charge Charlton a consultancy fee for this advice!
Anschutz Entertainment as distinct from the electrical appliances maker?
Relegation would be terminal
Survive this season by any means possible, only then is the choice of manager relevant