They're now talking about redesigning the retractable seating in the summer for West Ham which kills off any other use of the stadium outside the football season.
I always thought this would be the case. Once they got in no one was ever going to kick them out. They can do what they like with it now I imagine.
The whole thing really sickens me.
As I understand it this is to implement some automation - at the moment it takes a team of people a whole week to retract the seating and a whole week to put it back again.
It shines a very bright spotlight on the appalling planning that went into this stadium, and it's yet more cost for the taxpayer. Well done Mr Khan, time this was sorted once and for all.
Although that will inevitably mean West Ham will end up owning and/or operating the stadium.
They're now talking about redesigning the retractable seating in the summer for West Ham which kills off any other use of the stadium outside the football season.
I always thought this would be the case. Once they got in no one was ever going to kick them out. They can do what they like with it now I imagine.
The whole thing really sickens me.
Although that will inevitably mean West Ham will end up owning and/or operating the stadium.
Not a problem with that providing they pay the correct price to the tax payer, how much did Wembley cost?
It was never suited to West Ham. Something dodgy has gone on and taxpayers have been fleeced. I would start by talking to/investigating the Porn barons, the baroness and the blonde corrupt oaf! The answer lies with them somewhere.
They're now talking about redesigning the retractable seating in the summer for West Ham which kills off any other use of the stadium outside the football season.
I always thought this would be the case. Once they got in no one was ever going to kick them out. They can do what they like with it now I imagine.
The whole thing really sickens me.
Although that will inevitably mean West Ham will end up owning and/or operating the stadium.
Not a problem with that providing they pay the correct price to the tax payer, how much did Wembley cost?
Somewhere just south of £1bn. Of course, that's not the full story. According to the last set of accounts for Wembley National Stadium Ltd ("WNSL") (as at 31 July 2015) another paltry £6.5mn was spent on upgrading the facilities. This tells you everything, the costs associated with operating a large, posh stadium are never-ending. Back in 2011 Bernstein promised the stadium would be breaking even by 2014 and pumping a continuous stream of money back into the game by 2015. Guess what? The 2015 accounts show that WNSL lost £8.8mn after tax in 2015. Meanwhile, WNSL ( a subsidiary of The FA) has pathetic net assets of only £51mn. This is largely because it still has long-term debt of £523mn. It cost around £26mn to service this debt in the year reported on. The breakdown of the debt is interesting. The largest portion is in respect of bank loans, but WNSL also owes close to £100mn to The FA; money which the FA could otherwise presumably be using for something else. It also has "deferred capital grants" of £76.3mn, £16.2mn and £17.1mn from Sport England, The Dept. of Culture Media and Sport and The London Development Agency respectively. There are outstanding charges presumably from the lending banks, Barclays and WestLB. The latter is a German state-owned bank - and who said the Germans have no sense of humour?! Yes, we are their bitch. Naturally, every year, the stadium is depreciated in the books.
It is difficult to imagine that anyone ever thought that The Taxpayers' Stadium was ever going to turn out to be a sensible plan.
They're now talking about redesigning the retractable seating in the summer for West Ham which kills off any other use of the stadium outside the football season.
I always thought this would be the case. Once they got in no one was ever going to kick them out. They can do what they like with it now I imagine.
The whole thing really sickens me.
As I understand it this is to implement some automation - at the moment it takes a team of people a whole week to retract the seating and a whole week to put it back again.
It shines a very bright spotlight on the appalling planning that went into this stadium, and it's yet more cost for the taxpayer. Well done Mr Khan, time this was sorted once and for all.
Although that will inevitably mean West Ham will end up owning and/or operating the stadium.
The stadium's financial model is wholly based on revenue generated outside the periods occupied by West Ham. West Ham were just regarded as an attraction paid for by the taxpayer. This was clear from the only argument put forward by LLDC at the Tribunal, that their negotiating power selling events during and outside the football season would be compromised and the taxpayer would suffer the consequences.
Wholly agree about how this will end up, I can see it being given to West Ham in compensation for terminating the contract. Sensible thing would be to demolish it and start again, but who will finance the rebuild?
This whole deal was about the Brady bunch collecting a crock of gold and they will not give that up lightly. If it all gets dirty, and the stadium in it's current shape is not viable as a football stadium, I can see the Brady bunch selling their shares to a new owner of West Ham who will do the demolishing and rebuilding. If the shares are transferred to members of their families before sale, the Brady bunch don't have to give anything back to taxpayers (contrary to what Boris promised).
Rather than getting out with a profit and passing the problem to someone else, they could admit defeat, that greed got the better of them and they will now invest some of their own money to rebuild the stadium, second thoughts...
Sir Robin Wales welcomes the independent enquiry - "we have a duty to the taxpayers".
Welcome to the party, Sir Robin, better late than never ....
He has got a nerve. Newham are 35% shareholders. They should have been all over these cost overruns. For sure they have been aware of them. The documentation demonstrating that is not hard to access.
Shameless posturing.
Wonder what conversations he will have with the Baronness in the Boardroom on matchdays, though...
If you are a common or garden West Ham fan who regularly schlepped to your atmospheric, historic, very nice Boelyn ground, holding all the memories and ghosts of your community stretching back, you have been pretty much betrayed by events.
Part of you might have embraced the future, the lorry loads of free taxpayers cash for better players and future glory might have elicited a wry smile. You can dismiss the concerns of others as jealousy, you relished the all singing all dancing prospect in a state of the art stadium. You may have felt deep sadness at the irrevocable move, but gone along with it.
What you didn't expect to be was ballast, a quaint backdrop to the self serving theatre of this Tory quadrille. You have a seat miles from the pitch, scant atmosphere, always a weather eye out for trouble, travel issues, catering that makes our 14 chips for £3 look like a free gift.
Then you think of the pleasure of your previous times at Upton Park.
We may now despise West Ham United, a great club that is now a bunch of powerful freeloaders despising their community that created the platform for all this, sneering at any criticism at all, but deep down the straightforward West Ham Fan has been let down badly.
One of the most enduring fairy tales is The Emperor's New Clothes, which we see writ large at Charlton, and West Ham fans will hear loudly for years.
Are there any West Ham fans who hate all this?
I believe that the movers and shakers should recompense the taxpayer in full for all this shocking malarkey, but it will be the ordinary West Ham fan who will suffer.
I think the MP Damien Green was on the radio this morning saying lessons should be learnt from this. Building a stadium not fit for football and highlighted Man City's stadium only cost £20m to renovate for football. I could go on but as always saying stuff we've heard many times before but sadly MP's still don't bloody learn and the tax payer pays!
I think the MP Damien Green was on the radio this morning saying lessons should be learnt from this. Building a stadium not fit for football and highlighted Man City's stadium only cost £20m to renovate for football. I could go on but as always saying stuff we've heard many times before but sadly MP's still don't bloody learn and the tax payer pays!
didn't he mention something like they should have taken the conversion into consideration when building it?
even though it wasn't going to be converted when it was built (something my mate Sebastian Coe was giving it the old stand and deliver about)
This is the most annoying thing for me. Coe and his mates had to convince that there would be a legacy - the stadium not becoming a premiership stadium would have helped. It was decided later that it needed football, then Spurs offered to build a football stadium on the site and a state of the art athletics stadium in Crystal Palace. Either way is better than we have now.
What is wrong with having an athletics stadium on the site. The country hasn't got one FFS! The reason can't be cost, because adapting the stadium for West Ham to play there was always the most expensive option. It is basic common sense that something dodgy has happened here!
I think the MP Damien Green was on the radio this morning saying lessons should be learnt from this. Building a stadium not fit for football and highlighted Man City's stadium only cost £20m to renovate for football. I could go on but as always saying stuff we've heard many times before but sadly MP's still don't bloody learn and the tax payer pays!
Didn't he mention something like they should have taken the conversion into consideration when building it?
even though it wasn't going to be converted when it was built (something my mate Sebastian Coe was giving it the old stand and deliver about)
Yes he did mention conversion costs and highlighted the City of Manchester stadium was built with that very fact in mind.
This is the most annoying thing for me. Coe and his mates had to convince that there would be a legacy - the stadium not becoming a premiership stadium would have helped. It was decided later that it needed football, then Spurs offered to build a football stadium on the site and a state of the art athletics stadium in Crystal Palace. Either way is better than we have now.
What is wrong with having an athletics stadium on the site. The country hasn't got one FFS! The reason can't be cost, because adapting the stadium for West Ham to play there was always the most expensive option. It is basic common sense that something dodgy has happened here!
Yes, the stadium was built with a permanent lower section of 30k, and a temporary section above it of 50k with no facilities. After the Olympics you remove the upper section, leaving a permanent 30k athletics stadium as a legacy of the games.
They then decided that this wouldn't be economic...but that spending vast sums to convert it into a poor football stadium was economic, weird...
Damian Collins, not Damian Green. We have a line to him.
Owen Gibson is promising more coverage this week.
The campaign has suddenly stepped up a gear. We were looking for a political route to a formal interrogation of the costs, but up to now could not get any specific commitment. Then Sadiq Khan came along. however one story is that he only did it when Paul Kelso went to see him with the new cost details. Proof if you need of the value of good journalism.
This is the most annoying thing for me. Coe and his mates had to convince that there would be a legacy - the stadium not becoming a premiership stadium would have helped. It was decided later that it needed football, then Spurs offered to build a football stadium on the site and a state of the art athletics stadium in Crystal Palace. Either way is better than we have now.
What is wrong with having an athletics stadium on the site. The country hasn't got one FFS! The reason can't be cost, because adapting the stadium for West Ham to play there was always the most expensive option. It is basic common sense that something dodgy has happened here!
Yes, the stadium was built with a permanent lower section of 30k, and a temporary section above it of 50k with no facilities. After the Olympics you remove the upper section, leaving a permanent 30k athletics stadium as a legacy of the games.
They then decided that this wouldn't be economic...but that spending vast sums to convert it into a poor football stadium was economic, weird...
It isn't economic inspiring young athletes in the same way it isn't economic funding all the gold medals that have given us so much pride. It is ridiculous! With events and pop concerts, the stadium could have kept ticking over and what would have been wrong with that? No we want tax payers to pay West Ham millions of pounds for the next hundred years. There has been dishonesty here and people need to wake up to it!
As I understand it this is to implement some automation - at the moment it takes a team of people a whole week to retract the seating and a whole week to put it back again.
According to a report yesterday, the problem is that it will take 3 weeks each time, not 1, because it has to be done largely by hand, and that will cut into the schedule for non-football events in the summer. I suspect that is why the cost of that part of the operation went up by a factor of, what was it, roughly 2500%, because they would have to cancel some of the events.
As I understand it this is to implement some automation - at the moment it takes a team of people a whole week to retract the seating and a whole week to put it back again.
According to a BBC report yesterday, the problem is that it will take 3 weeks each time, not 1, because it has to be done largely by hand, and that will cut into the schedule for non-football events in the summer. I suspect that it why the cost of that part of the operation went up by a factor of, what was it, roughly 2500%, because they would have to cancel some of the events.
So what incredibly difficult multifunctional formulae got fucked up by what world renowned boffin, for this to be suddenly arrived at?
As I understand it this is to implement some automation - at the moment it takes a team of people a whole week to retract the seating and a whole week to put it back again.
According to a BBC report yesterday, the problem is that it will take 3 weeks each time, not 1, because it has to be done largely by hand, and that will cut into the schedule for non-football events in the summer. I suspect that it why the cost of that part of the operation went up by a factor of, what was it, roughly 2500%, because they would have to cancel some of the events.
So what incredibly difficult multifunctional formulae got fucked up by what world renowned boffin, for this to be suddenly arrived at?
Well, they're saying that the company that was supposed to do the dismantling and the re-mantling(?) has gone bust. I imagine the company were managed by idiots who put in an unrealistic tender, which was accepted without adequate scrutiny. In the age of austerity, anything that looked good for the bottom line was given the nod.
Damian Collins, not Damian Green. We have a line to him.
Owen Gibson is promising more coverage this week.
The campaign has suddenly stepped up a gear. We were looking for a political route to a formal interrogation of the costs, but up to now could not get any specific commitment. Then Sadiq Khan came along. however one story is that he only did it when Paul Kelso went to see him with the new cost details. Proof if you need of the value of good journalism.
Sorry your right, it was Damian Collins. He also admitted it would be very hard to get more money out of West Ham. Keep the good work up Prague, its because of people like you that this thing hasn't gone away.
It wasn't the BBC, it was Sky News (same difference!) about the seating dismantling and re-assembly:
"Sky News learned the estimated annual outlay of moving "retractable" seats is one of the factors behind the rise.
The cost of the seats, installed to improve the view for football, has increased from an estimated £300,000 to £8m.
Engineers have said work to move them could take 15 days at the end of the football season and 15 days to put them back after the summer - three times as long as the five days initially predicted for each period.
The seating issue threatens the viability of the stadium's summer schedule, which includes concerts as well as athletics in 2017, and could even delay West Ham's return for the start of the new football season."
...
"Summer concerts are due to begin three weeks after West Ham's last home game, with Depeche Mode due to play their first UK stadium gig in 23 years there on 3 June.
West Ham's first two matches of the 2017-18 season are understood to have already been scheduled to be away from home, but the building work could prevent them playing at home until September."
"Summer concerts are due to begin three weeks after West Ham's last home game, with Depeche Mode due to play their first UK stadium gig in 23 years there on 3 June.
West Ham's first two matches of the 2017-18 season are understood to have already been scheduled to be away from home, but the building work could prevent them playing at home until September."
Fine, they can groundshare with Leyton Orient for their first couple of home matches
The World Athletics next summer runs until the 13th August. With the extended timetable, they'll be struggling to use the stadium until the end of August at the earlest, and what sort of condition will the pitch be in?
"Summer concerts are due to begin three weeks after West Ham's last home game, with Depeche Mode due to play their first UK stadium gig in 23 years there on 3 June.
West Ham's first two matches of the 2017-18 season are understood to have already been scheduled to be away from home, but the building work could prevent them playing at home until September."
Fine, they can groundshare with Leyton Orient for their first couple of home matches
The World Athletics next summer runs until the 13th August. With the extended timetable, they'll be struggling to use the stadium until the end of August at the earlest, and what sort of condition will the pitch be in?
It's okay. We'll just give them a new pitch. It's only money!!
So the total cost of this stadium now stands at £752m. To put that into context: Emirates Stadium - £390m City of Manchester Stadium - £154m Wembley - £757m
Admittedly these prices will change with inflation but they are absolutely damming of the goings on with the OS.
Comments
It shines a very bright spotlight on the appalling planning that went into this stadium, and it's yet more cost for the taxpayer. Well done Mr Khan, time this was sorted once and for all.
Although that will inevitably mean West Ham will end up owning and/or operating the stadium.
Back in 2011 Bernstein promised the stadium would be breaking even by 2014 and pumping a continuous stream of money back into the game by 2015.
Guess what? The 2015 accounts show that WNSL lost £8.8mn after tax in 2015.
Meanwhile, WNSL ( a subsidiary of The FA) has pathetic net assets of only £51mn. This is largely because it still has long-term debt of £523mn.
It cost around £26mn to service this debt in the year reported on.
The breakdown of the debt is interesting. The largest portion is in respect of bank loans, but WNSL also owes close to £100mn to The FA; money which the FA could otherwise presumably be using for something else. It also has "deferred capital grants" of £76.3mn, £16.2mn and £17.1mn from Sport England, The Dept. of Culture Media and Sport and The London Development Agency respectively.
There are outstanding charges presumably from the lending banks, Barclays and WestLB. The latter is a German state-owned bank - and who said the Germans have no sense of humour?! Yes, we are their bitch.
Naturally, every year, the stadium is depreciated in the books.
It is difficult to imagine that anyone ever thought that The Taxpayers' Stadium was ever going to turn out to be a sensible plan.
Wholly agree about how this will end up, I can see it being given to West Ham in compensation for terminating the contract. Sensible thing would be to demolish it and start again, but who will finance the rebuild?
This whole deal was about the Brady bunch collecting a crock of gold and they will not give that up lightly. If it all gets dirty, and the stadium in it's current shape is not viable as a football stadium, I can see the Brady bunch selling their shares to a new owner of West Ham who will do the demolishing and rebuilding. If the shares are transferred to members of their families before sale, the Brady bunch don't have to give anything back to taxpayers (contrary to what Boris promised).
Rather than getting out with a profit and passing the problem to someone else, they could admit defeat, that greed got the better of them and they will now invest some of their own money to rebuild the stadium, second thoughts...
so much for maintaining an olympic legacy that you felt oh so strongly about!
Would Newham's £45 million be secured in some way, or realistically can they kiss that goodbye ?
He has got a nerve. Newham are 35% shareholders. They should have been all over these cost overruns. For sure they have been aware of them. The documentation demonstrating that is not hard to access.
Shameless posturing.
Wonder what conversations he will have with the Baronness in the Boardroom on matchdays, though...
Part of you might have embraced the future, the lorry loads of free taxpayers cash for better players and future glory might have elicited a wry smile. You can dismiss the concerns of others as jealousy, you relished the all singing all dancing prospect in a state of the art stadium. You may have felt deep sadness at the irrevocable move, but gone along with it.
What you didn't expect to be was ballast, a quaint backdrop to the self serving theatre of this Tory quadrille. You have a seat miles from the pitch, scant atmosphere, always a weather eye out for trouble, travel issues, catering that makes our 14 chips for £3 look like a free gift.
Then you think of the pleasure of your previous times at Upton Park.
We may now despise West Ham United, a great club that is now a bunch of powerful freeloaders despising their community that created the platform for all this, sneering at any criticism at all, but deep down the straightforward West Ham Fan has been let down badly.
One of the most enduring fairy tales is The Emperor's New Clothes, which we see writ large at Charlton, and West Ham fans will hear loudly for years.
Are there any West Ham fans who hate all this?
I believe that the movers and shakers should recompense the taxpayer in full for all this shocking malarkey, but it will be the ordinary West Ham fan who will suffer.
even though it wasn't going to be converted when it was built (something my mate Sebastian Coe was giving it the old stand and deliver about)
What is wrong with having an athletics stadium on the site. The country hasn't got one FFS! The reason can't be cost, because adapting the stadium for West Ham to play there was always the most expensive option. It is basic common sense that something dodgy has happened here!
They then decided that this wouldn't be economic...but that spending vast sums to convert it into a poor football stadium was economic, weird...
Owen Gibson is promising more coverage this week.
The campaign has suddenly stepped up a gear. We were looking for a political route to a formal interrogation of the costs, but up to now could not get any specific commitment. Then Sadiq Khan came along. however one story is that he only did it when Paul Kelso went to see him with the new cost details. Proof if you need of the value of good journalism.
Keep the good work up Prague, its because of people like you that this thing hasn't gone away.
"Sky News learned the estimated annual outlay of moving "retractable" seats is one of the factors behind the rise.
The cost of the seats, installed to improve the view for football, has increased from an estimated £300,000 to £8m.
Engineers have said work to move them could take 15 days at the end of the football season and 15 days to put them back after the summer - three times as long as the five days initially predicted for each period.
The seating issue threatens the viability of the stadium's summer schedule, which includes concerts as well as athletics in 2017, and could even delay West Ham's return for the start of the new football season."
...
"Summer concerts are due to begin three weeks after West Ham's last home game, with Depeche Mode due to play their first UK stadium gig in 23 years there on 3 June.
West Ham's first two matches of the 2017-18 season are understood to have already been scheduled to be away from home, but the building work could prevent them playing at home until September."
http://news.sky.com/story/sadiq-khan-orders-inquiry-over-16351m-olympic-stadium-increase-10641071
The World Athletics next summer runs until the 13th August. With the extended timetable, they'll be struggling to use the stadium until the end of August at the earlest, and what sort of condition will the pitch be in?
Owen Gibson
Emirates Stadium - £390m
City of Manchester Stadium - £154m
Wembley - £757m
Admittedly these prices will change with inflation but they are absolutely damming of the goings on with the OS.