Maybe all the hype surrounding the lad affected him after playing a few games for us. Barcelona supposed to have been interested in signing him. Suggestions that he would qualify to play internationally for England, Spain or Uruguay. I wonder how many games he has actually played in the last 2/3 seasons.
Another John Bostock? Young footballers need to be playing- not bench warming for a season or two. Take note Ademola Lookman.
Agreed. Dele Alli shows that playing in league 1 doesn't hinder development
Alli is actually 2 years younger than Poyet, so he joined Spurs at a younger age than Poyet was when he joined West Ham. He's the rare case of a youngster joining a PL club and going straight into the team
I imagine Diego and Gus expected him to get plenty of game time with West Ham last season, but then they signed Alex Song
Your first statement isn't correct. He's one year younger and he'd played almost 100 games for MK Dons. Yes, he's a rare case but it shows that it can happen if you are good and dedicated enough. Poyet was the first of these 2 years ago
Another John Bostock? Young footballers need to be playing- not bench warming for a season or two. Take note Ademola Lookman.
Agreed. Dele Alli shows that playing in league 1 doesn't hinder development
Alli is actually 2 years younger than Poyet, so he joined Spurs at a younger age than Poyet was when he joined West Ham. He's the rare case of a youngster joining a PL club and going straight into the team
I imagine Diego and Gus expected him to get plenty of game time with West Ham last season, but then they signed Alex Song
Your first statement isn't correct. He's one year younger and he'd played almost 100 games for MK Dons. Yes, he's a rare case but it shows that it can happen if you are good and dedicated enough. Poyet was the first of these 2 years ago
Sorry, it's because Diego had his birthday yesterday!
Either way, Alli joined Spurs when he was 19, while Poyet joined Wet Spam also at the age of 19. I guess that shows how good the young Alli is.
It's worth noting that Poyet is younger than the likes of Fox and Lennon, and both of those didn't really breakthrough into the first team until they were 21
I think in the year he was with us he benefited from having Jacko and Cousins in the midfield with him. The two of them could cover a lot of ground and Poyet was allowed to sit deep, read the game, break up play, and then had two midfielders directly in front of him to play simple passes to. I sort of wonder if he's ready to be part of a midfield two which required a lot more running, which for a sitting midfielder can really mess with their style of play. It's also a position, the deep lying defensive midfielder, that is a bit out of fashion right now. You've seen the likes of Makelele, De Jong, Gilberto, Hargreaves etc. replaced by more mobile destroyers like Busquets, Vidal, and any number of French midfielders.
It should also be noted that he's played for four teams in the last 18 months (Hudds, West Ham, MK Dons, and Charlton) each of whom will have their own systems and style of play.
Lastly, that type of deep midfielder, even when they're doing their job well, it's very subtle and it's often based on closing players and passing lanes down, slowing opposition attacks, and then tackling and interception when possible.
None of this is to say he's doing well, and it feels like when he got the move to West Ham he might have put his feet up and said "I made it," but I do think there are other factors at play.
Mate, can you be our next manager, you know more than peeters, Riga, fraye* and Luzon combined?!
* Admittedly so does my two year old daughter.
I've been told I'm not allowed to apply for footballing positions at the club since I "might require a wage." That said, if anything changes, I'd be happy to have your daughter as part of my coaching staff!
Biggest fall i have seen from any player ... He looks a shadow of the player that left us and this has to be a warning to any young player who thinks the prem is the holy grail Poyet will be lucky to get a div 1 club next season .....
Biggest fall i have seen from any player ... He looks a shadow of the player that left us and this has to be a warning to any young player who thinks the prem is the holy grail Poyet will be lucky to get a div 1 club next season .....
Whatever happened to Nicky Bailey after 2010?
Went to Boro and was major part of their side in the Championship for at least 3 seasons
What happened is a cautionary tale of a young player leaving a club where they are blossoming and the strong possibility that it could all go pear shaped. Shadow of the player that left the club.
Biggest fall i have seen from any player ... He looks a shadow of the player that left us and this has to be a warning to any young player who thinks the prem is the holy grail Poyet will be lucky to get a div 1 club next season .....
Whatever happened to Nicky Bailey after 2010?
Went to Boro and was major part of their side in the Championship for at least 3 seasons
And now? Sutton United. Left us for a pay rise at Middlesbrough but didn't achieve anything there, then faded away at Millwall.
Similar to Poyet - followed the money but didn't think of the bigger picture.
I was at a party with him a few years ago and he was an absolute dick. Hope this helps.
It probably does say a lot. He clearly made a financial decision, rather than a footballing one. He may pay for it with his career or at least the level of his career. I hope not, but he wasn't from a council estate, why didn't his dad give him the right advice? Crazy.
The truth is, he was ahead of Cousins at that point, now he isn't even close to Cousins. There is a young man who deserves a great career and I think he will have one.
Poyet is from Eltham College . Not the first "Thickie PSB "( public school boy ) that you will encounter and he won't be the last
Too many people have been too judgemental around Poyet's decision, imho. He didn't help his rep with the fans with some of the stuff he said on losing, but 18 months on the club is a mess and it's entirely possible he saw that coming. We have no real idea what he was offered by Charlton and in what manner. He may also have known that Riga was going and being replaced by Bob Peeters and will have seen the quality of signings we made in the early Duchatalet days. He and his advisors may have felt that his talent was not going to be nurtured the way it needed to be at a club in such constant flux and with a penchant for appointing managers and coaches who made you say "Who?!?".
I don't know what other offers he had, a Championship club that would play him and develop him with proper coaching would have been my choice, but maybe West ham was the best of the options. I'm sure money came into the thinking, but it may not have been the only reason.
I don't agree with the idea that the best place for him at the time was obviously Charlton just because we would play him. Muttley fairly points out that Cousins is now ahead of Poyet when maybe it was the other way around when he left, but is that because Cousins has improved or because Poyet has gone backwards? We have played plenty of young players since Roland bought the club but how many have we genuinely improved? Cousins is maturing, but have the coaches significantly improved his technique or tactical awareness since Powell gave him his debut? Is Fox any better than when the academy handed him over? Has Pope been developed or have his nerves just settled down a bit with age? I'm not sure.
Poyet would have benefited from playing games, but I can understand if he felt the coaching here wasn't up to what he needed. Either way he was a young man with a decision to make. It hasn't worked out for him but I don't get why some people seem so keen to revel in his misfortune and paint as some kind of idiot because of it.
For a minimal fee or freebie I'd take him back and try and restart his career in League 1. There is a player in there but i think he'll need to drop down the leagues a bit to get the game time he needs to find himself again.
Too many people have been too judgemental around Poyet's decision, imho. He didn't help his rep with the fans with some of the stuff he said on losing, but 18 months on the club is a mess and it's entirely possible he saw that coming. We have no real idea what he was offered by Charlton and in what manner. He may also have known that Riga was going and being replaced by Bob Peeters and will have seen the quality of signings we made in the early Duchatalet days. He and his advisors may have felt that his talent was not going to be nurtured the way it needed to be at a club in such constant flux and with a penchant for appointing managers and coaches who made you say "Who?!?".
I don't agree with the idea that the best place for him at the time was obviously Charlton just because we would play him. Muttley fairly points out that Cousins is now ahead of Poyet when maybe it was the other way around when he left, but is that because Cousins has improved or because Poyet has gone backwards? We have played plenty of young players since Roland bought the club but how many have we genuinely improved? Cousins is maturing, but have the coaches significantly improved his technique or tactical awareness since Powell gave him his debut? Is Fox any better than when the academy handed him over? Has Pope been developed or have his nerves just settled down a bit with age? I'm not sure.
Regarding Diego not staying the first time around, I get it. There are rumors he was told he'd be sent out to Standard, obviously no idea if it's true.
Regarding Cousins, Fox, and Pope, my answer is yes, significantly to all three of them. Fox's 1v1 defending has gotten better, as has his ability to close down the cross, and he has gotten better on the ball even if it's still a weakness. Pope's command of his penalty area has definitely improved, as has his distribution and kicking. He said in the interview in midweek that some of that was from his time on loan in lower leagues, which is good and why you send players on loan, to hone their skills and calm the nerves a bit.
Cousins is definitely more tactically aware than when he broke through. And there are little signs that his passing and vision are improving. Still room for improvement on both fronts, but much better than when I saw him playing for England youth teams. I also say this a lot but all three have improved under Riga explicitly in my opinion.
Not all have been successful, Piggot (under Powell it should be noted) and KAG (under three coaches now) have both gone backward since breaking through. Still time for KAG, suspect Piggot isn't quite good enough (always felt this way TBH). Harriott is another one who has improved under Riga, again.
All-in-all, I definitely think we have made some of our youth players better in the first 2-3 years after they break into the first team (often between the ages of 18 and 21, which are very underrated in a players development in my opinion). KAG and Lookman are just entering that period. Obviously, selfishly hope that Lookman sticks around next year. I think a really good run of form in League One could see him go up two levels as Delli Alli did.
Maybe he knew he wasn't actually that good and had a purple patch with us. Took the pay rise knowing he would get found out eventually and not get another chance for such a pay day. Plus he doesn't really seem to care about the football as he's not made any effort since the state funded lot loaned him out.
Too many people have been too judgemental around Poyet's decision, imho. He didn't help his rep with the fans with some of the stuff he said on losing, but 18 months on the club is a mess and it's entirely possible he saw that coming. We have no real idea what he was offered by Charlton and in what manner. He may also have known that Riga was going and being replaced by Bob Peeters and will have seen the quality of signings we made in the early Duchatalet days. He and his advisors may have felt that his talent was not going to be nurtured the way it needed to be at a club in such constant flux and with a penchant for appointing managers and coaches who made you say "Who?!?".
I don't agree with the idea that the best place for him at the time was obviously Charlton just because we would play him. Muttley fairly points out that Cousins is now ahead of Poyet when maybe it was the other way around when he left, but is that because Cousins has improved or because Poyet has gone backwards? We have played plenty of young players since Roland bought the club but how many have we genuinely improved? Cousins is maturing, but have the coaches significantly improved his technique or tactical awareness since Powell gave him his debut? Is Fox any better than when the academy handed him over? Has Pope been developed or have his nerves just settled down a bit with age? I'm not sure.
Regarding Diego not staying the first time around, I get it. There are rumors he was told he'd be sent out to Standard, obviously no idea if it's true.
Regarding Cousins, Fox, and Pope, my answer is yes, significantly to all three of them. Fox's 1v1 defending has gotten better, as has his ability to close down the cross, and he has gotten better on the ball even if it's still a weakness. Pope's command of his penalty area has definitely improved, as has his distribution and kicking. He said in the interview in midweek that some of that was from his time on loan in lower leagues, which is good and why you send players on loan, to hone their skills and calm the nerves a bit.
Cousins is definitely more tactically aware than when he broke through. And there are little signs that his passing and vision are improving. Still room for improvement on both fronts, but much better than when I saw him playing for England youth teams. I also say this a lot but all three have improved under Riga explicitly in my opinion.
Not all have been successful, Piggot (under Powell it should be noted) and KAG (under three coaches now) have both gone backward since breaking through. Still time for KAG, suspect Piggot isn't quite good enough (always felt this way TBH). Harriott is another one who has improved under Riga, again.
All-in-all, I definitely think we have made some of our youth players better in the first 2-3 years after they break into the first team (often between the ages of 18 and 21, which are very underrated in a players development in my opinion). KAG and Lookman are just entering that period. Obviously, selfishly hope that Lookman sticks around next year. I think a really good run of form in League One could see him go up two levels as Delli Alli did.
Fair answers, I get to see a lot less of the team than I used to so am not best placed to judge. In your answer there is maybe the hint at one of the reasons he left. If it has mostly been under Riga that our players have improved, it was also Riga who left at the same time as Poyet.
Maybe he knew he wasn't actually that good and had a purple patch with us. Took the pay rise knowing he would get found out eventually and not get another chance for such a pay day. Plus he doesn't really seem to care about the football as he's not made any effort since the state funded lot loaned him out.
So, what you're saying is that he is useless now because he's a Civil Servant????
Biggest fall i have seen from any player ... He looks a shadow of the player that left us and this has to be a warning to any young player who thinks the prem is the holy grail Poyet will be lucky to get a div 1 club next season .....
Whatever happened to Nicky Bailey after 2010?
Went to Boro and was major part of their side in the Championship for at least 3 seasons
And now? Sutton United. Left us for a pay rise at Middlesbrough but didn't achieve anything there, then faded away at Millwall.
Similar to Poyet - followed the money but didn't think of the bigger picture.
I don't see it as being similar to be honest. Bailey played regularly at Boro for a few seasons so it couldn't be seen as a poor career choice. I don't think what followed is particularly relevant to his decision to leave us.
West Ham being a bit crappier when he joined them perhaps factors in as well. They weren't chasing European places as they are now - they'd just finished the season with 40 points and were a bit rubbish - he probably thought he had a reasonable chance or getting into their first team.
Too many people have been too judgemental around Poyet's decision, imho. He didn't help his rep with the fans with some of the stuff he said on losing, but 18 months on the club is a mess and it's entirely possible he saw that coming. We have no real idea what he was offered by Charlton and in what manner. He may also have known that Riga was going and being replaced by Bob Peeters and will have seen the quality of signings we made in the early Duchatalet days. He and his advisors may have felt that his talent was not going to be nurtured the way it needed to be at a club in such constant flux and with a penchant for appointing managers and coaches who made you say "Who?!?".
I don't know what other offers he had, a Championship club that would play him and develop him with proper coaching would have been my choice, but maybe West ham was the best of the options. I'm sure money came into the thinking, but it may not have been the only reason.
I don't agree with the idea that the best place for him at the time was obviously Charlton just because we would play him. Muttley fairly points out that Cousins is now ahead of Poyet when maybe it was the other way around when he left, but is that because Cousins has improved or because Poyet has gone backwards? We have played plenty of young players since Roland bought the club but how many have we genuinely improved? Cousins is maturing, but have the coaches significantly improved his technique or tactical awareness since Powell gave him his debut? Is Fox any better than when the academy handed him over? Has Pope been developed or have his nerves just settled down a bit with age? I'm not sure.
Poyet would have benefited from playing games, but I can understand if he felt the coaching here wasn't up to what he needed. Either way he was a young man with a decision to make. It hasn't worked out for him but I don't get why some people seem so keen to revel in his misfortune and paint as some kind of idiot because of it.
For a minimal fee or freebie I'd take him back and try and restart his career in League 1. There is a player in there but i think he'll need to drop down the leagues a bit to get the game time he needs to find himself again.
Some good points but - He went to West Ham and despite supposedly better coaching, his performance has not improved.
He definitely overestimated his own ability as others have said. Turned down Sunderland but went to West Ham. Things could have been different had he gone to Sunderland and got more game time.
I suspect he got caught on the ball rather too many times in West Ham training games and has now lost his nerve in holding the ball - he was never going to fit in a side managed by Sam Allardyce, and his dad should have told him so.
He definitely overestimated his own ability as others have said. Turned down Sunderland but went to West Ham. Things could have been different had he gone to Sunderland and got more game time.
Gus was manager of Sunderland at the time. So I don't buy this story.
If he believed that he wasn't good enough then he should have moved for the money just in case he thought that kind of offer wouldn't come along again.
If he believes he was good enough he should have moved because he would have expected to make it and develop.
If he thought he was going to be way too good for West Ham then he should have moved as he was going to play and then get picked out for a big move to a big club.
What the above failes to recognise is that playing (as much as coaching) helps a player to develop. Playing games for us under a long list of no mark managers would have been better than training with class players and great coaches and not playing.
We will never know if his career would have been better served by staying wth us but what we do know is that moving guaranteed him wealth until he dies (assuming he doesn't waste or lose it all) which might never have happened if he'd stayed with us.
On that basis I don't think we can criticise his decision, just revel in the fact that his career has nosedived and may well never recover. I don't think the 21 year old millionaire cares what we think though.
I think his surname, a short good period for Charlton and his dad all made young Diego think that his time had come.
I don't blame him moving for money but he wasn't anywhere near ready for West Hams first team squad and has subsequently learned that finishing your footballing education in a secure, comfortable and familiar environment where you get the support of the fans is perhaps a better option than getting loaned out to all and sundry where that environment supporting progress isn't there. He'll learn more about that next season too.
Riga has a knack of getting his players play to the best of their ability. Fox and Pope seem to be the latest to have improved greatly in recent weeks. If we can get Poyet back on the cheap, I'd trust Riga to eventually get him playing again. I think Riga could see that he was way off his game this time around, and couldn't waste anymore time with him contributing so little to the team. Next season could be very different and he may rediscover his mojo at a lower level.
He definitely overestimated his own ability as others have said. Turned down Sunderland but went to West Ham. Things could have been different had he gone to Sunderland and got more game time.
Gus was manager of Sunderland at the time. So I don't buy this story.
Riga has a knack of getting his players play to the best of their ability. Fox and Pope seem to be the latest to have improved greatly in recent weeks. If we can get Poyet back on the cheap, I'd trust Riga to eventually get him playing again. I think Riga could see that he was way off his game this time around, and couldn't waste anymore time with him contributing so little to the team. Next season could be very different and he may rediscover his mojo at a lower level.
I was expecting Riga to turn Poyet around this season though. Instead he's well down the pecking order - is he also struggling to make the 18 because we've got too many loan players to pick them all for the matchday squad?
Too many people have been too judgemental around Poyet's decision, imho. He didn't help his rep with the fans with some of the stuff he said on losing, but 18 months on the club is a mess and it's entirely possible he saw that coming. We have no real idea what he was offered by Charlton and in what manner. He may also have known that Riga was going and being replaced by Bob Peeters and will have seen the quality of signings we made in the early Duchatalet days. He and his advisors may have felt that his talent was not going to be nurtured the way it needed to be at a club in such constant flux and with a penchant for appointing managers and coaches who made you say "Who?!?".
I don't know what other offers he had, a Championship club that would play him and develop him with proper coaching would have been my choice, but maybe West ham was the best of the options. I'm sure money came into the thinking, but it may not have been the only reason.
I don't agree with the idea that the best place for him at the time was obviously Charlton just because we would play him. Muttley fairly points out that Cousins is now ahead of Poyet when maybe it was the other way around when he left, but is that because Cousins has improved or because Poyet has gone backwards? We have played plenty of young players since Roland bought the club but how many have we genuinely improved? Cousins is maturing, but have the coaches significantly improved his technique or tactical awareness since Powell gave him his debut? Is Fox any better than when the academy handed him over? Has Pope been developed or have his nerves just settled down a bit with age? I'm not sure.
Poyet would have benefited from playing games, but I can understand if he felt the coaching here wasn't up to what he needed. Either way he was a young man with a decision to make. It hasn't worked out for him but I don't get why some people seem so keen to revel in his misfortune and paint as some kind of idiot because of it.
For a minimal fee or freebie I'd take him back and try and restart his career in League 1. There is a player in there but i think he'll need to drop down the leagues a bit to get the game time he needs to find himself again.
It isn't just the coaching - Cousins has been learning and developing in the first team. He is one of the first names on the team sheet, which Poyet would have been the next season, had he not left!
Comments
Barcelona supposed to have been interested in signing him.
Suggestions that he would qualify to play internationally for England, Spain or Uruguay.
I wonder how many games he has actually played in the last 2/3 seasons.
Either way, Alli joined Spurs when he was 19, while Poyet joined Wet Spam also at the age of 19. I guess that shows how good the young Alli is.
It's worth noting that Poyet is younger than the likes of Fox and Lennon, and both of those didn't really breakthrough into the first team until they were 21
Similar to Poyet - followed the money but didn't think of the bigger picture.
I don't know what other offers he had, a Championship club that would play him and develop him with proper coaching would have been my choice, but maybe West ham was the best of the options. I'm sure money came into the thinking, but it may not have been the only reason.
I don't agree with the idea that the best place for him at the time was obviously Charlton just because we would play him. Muttley fairly points out that Cousins is now ahead of Poyet when maybe it was the other way around when he left, but is that because Cousins has improved or because Poyet has gone backwards? We have played plenty of young players since Roland bought the club but how many have we genuinely improved? Cousins is maturing, but have the coaches significantly improved his technique or tactical awareness since Powell gave him his debut? Is Fox any better than when the academy handed him over? Has Pope been developed or have his nerves just settled down a bit with age? I'm not sure.
Poyet would have benefited from playing games, but I can understand if he felt the coaching here wasn't up to what he needed. Either way he was a young man with a decision to make. It hasn't worked out for him but I don't get why some people seem so keen to revel in his misfortune and paint as some kind of idiot because of it.
For a minimal fee or freebie I'd take him back and try and restart his career in League 1. There is a player in there but i think he'll need to drop down the leagues a bit to get the game time he needs to find himself again.
Regarding Cousins, Fox, and Pope, my answer is yes, significantly to all three of them. Fox's 1v1 defending has gotten better, as has his ability to close down the cross, and he has gotten better on the ball even if it's still a weakness. Pope's command of his penalty area has definitely improved, as has his distribution and kicking. He said in the interview in midweek that some of that was from his time on loan in lower leagues, which is good and why you send players on loan, to hone their skills and calm the nerves a bit.
Cousins is definitely more tactically aware than when he broke through. And there are little signs that his passing and vision are improving. Still room for improvement on both fronts, but much better than when I saw him playing for England youth teams. I also say this a lot but all three have improved under Riga explicitly in my opinion.
Not all have been successful, Piggot (under Powell it should be noted) and KAG (under three coaches now) have both gone backward since breaking through. Still time for KAG, suspect Piggot isn't quite good enough (always felt this way TBH). Harriott is another one who has improved under Riga, again.
All-in-all, I definitely think we have made some of our youth players better in the first 2-3 years after they break into the first team (often between the ages of 18 and 21, which are very underrated in a players development in my opinion). KAG and Lookman are just entering that period. Obviously, selfishly hope that Lookman sticks around next year. I think a really good run of form in League One could see him go up two levels as Delli Alli did.
If he believes he was good enough he should have moved because he would have expected to make it and develop.
If he thought he was going to be way too good for West Ham then he should have moved as he was going to play and then get picked out for a big move to a big club.
What the above failes to recognise is that playing (as much as coaching) helps a player to develop. Playing games for us under a long list of no mark managers would have been better than training with class players and great coaches and not playing.
We will never know if his career would have been better served by staying wth us but what we do know is that moving guaranteed him wealth until he dies (assuming he doesn't waste or lose it all) which might never have happened if he'd stayed with us.
On that basis I don't think we can criticise his decision, just revel in the fact that his career has nosedived and may well never recover. I don't think the 21 year old millionaire cares what we think though.
I don't blame him moving for money but he wasn't anywhere near ready for West Hams first team squad and has subsequently learned that finishing your footballing education in a secure, comfortable and familiar environment where you get the support of the fans is perhaps a better option than getting loaned out to all and sundry where that environment supporting progress isn't there. He'll learn more about that next season too.