since this thread started we have visited The Somme with Clive as our guide. Since that trip I have discovered that my Grandfather, Samuel Arthur Target, was indeed injured on The Somme. On our trip we passed within a mile or so of where he was injured without me knowing so at the time. He died before I was born so I never met him but that doesn't make me any less proud of him today. My Dad had never told me and it appears his Dad had really never talked about his experiences there. RIP Sam and all those that gave their lives so we could enjoy the freedoms we have today. We will never forget.
A special generation that suffered such tragic loss. My Grandad was blown up on the 1st day of the Somme and lost a decent percentage of the top of his leg. As a kid I was intrigued by both the 1st & 2nd World Wars. Whenever I tried to ask him about it he would just change the subject. They must have gone through some horrific things that they just wanted to forget it.
|I dont in anyway mean this in a disrespectful way but a question I have always asked myself is would slaughter on this scale be possible today ? as in would the people allow it, when you see old footage of whole communities signing up to join the fight, would that happen today or are people more switched on ( if that is the right word )
Large-scale infantry warfare for developed nations was already obsolete given weapons technology at the time, not that it stopped Germany having a go at Russia twenty odd years later, the fools
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
assuming you have tried places like ancestry.co.uk to trace his service records? Or have you tried @SE7toSG3 who may be able to assist?
if some of you posting on here have not been on a Charlton Life trip to the battlefields you should consider it next time. Next years to Normandy for the D-Day landings has already 'sold-out' unfortunately. Maybe 2023, who knows.
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
assuming you have tried places like ancestry.co.uk to trace his service records? Or have you tried @SE7toSG3 who may be able to assist?
Yeah I've got all that from Ancestry.co.uk
There was someone else whose relative was at Gommecourt and wrote a detailed book on the diversion that day - My wife got it for my Birthday last year but havent quite gotten round to read it in full yet.
Unfortunately the book didnt have details of his Company, nor a photograph (as it went into extreme detail over those who were lost from his Regiment) - Thankfully though my own research means I've been able to get both, the latter was a family photograph that my Dad found in the loft with his parents, brother (my Great-Grandfather) and sister.
Quite sad really when it was found as was dated April 1916
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
My grandad, Walter Gordon Davis, volunteered in 1915 aged 25 and with three young kids. He joined the Royal West Kent regiment. He was shot through the shoulder at Festubert in January 1916 but patched up and back in the ranks a few weeks later.
On 3 July he was seriously wounded during the attack on German positions around the town of Ovillers on the Somme. Fortunately, he survived.
I have been privileged to see the specific field where this happened, with the German forward trench position clearly identifiable. Just next to that field is a war cemetery. My eyes moved from the field to the cemetery around me and all the gravestones were of soldiers of the Royal West Kents, most in their late teens or early 20s who died in that same attack. My grandad's mates.
Just heartbreaking.
My grandad was demobbed in 1919 and returned home - to Floyd Road SE7. The first of 5 generations of Addicks. He died in 1969 aged 79 having had 10 kids, including my dad.
God bless grandad. God bless dad. God bless all those lost and wounded on the Somme.
Your Grandad may have known mine, @Davo55. He joined the RWKs in 1916 at the age of 16 and a few months.
He never talked much about his experiences, other than that he was a general nuisance and a major disaster when asked if he got promotion, and my brother and I suspect he suffered from PTSD all his life. We do know he was gassed, wounded and buried alive but that's what our Mum told us, not our Grandad directly.
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
Absolutely crazy mate... Do you know what Regiment he was in?
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
Absolutely crazy mate... Do you know what Regiment he was in?
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
He was in the Artillery he was one of the blokes that rode the lead horse towing the guns ( no idea what they were called ) but he got blown up whilst pulling the gun, all I know that all of the horses were killed and he somehow survived
my Grandfather was in the 2nd/11 Battalion London Regiment (Finsbury Rifles), injured 9th July 1917 at Havrincourt, on the Hindenberg Line, and returned home to recover from a broken leg. Returned to serve with the Labour Corps until the end of the war.
My Grandfather was there as well. Frederick George H..... a gunnery Sergeant with the Royal Garrison Artillery a couple of miles behind the front line but taking part in the bombardment of the German lines prior to the attack at 7.30am on 1st July.
He was probably in a safe position well away from attack from the counter artillery bombardment as he was working on the heavy guns that were supposed to destroy the German deep dugouts and command and control positions. Of course, their efforts were generally a waste of time.
He survived the war, even after taking part in other campaigns like Passchendaele, where he was mustard gassed and lost his sense of taste. He died six years before I was born.
His medals are on proud display in my house.
My Grandfather was in the East Kent Regiment, infantry , also known as The Buffs. He was gassed at Passendale I believe. After recovering he was placed in the Land Corps which was also no picnic and received an Honerable Discharge on 3rd August 1918 having volunteered on May 1915 two months after his 1st son was born. He didn't need to volunteer. His wife died of Spanish flu in October 1918 . He remarried but died in Sept 1930 leaving 4 children. The gas slowly rotted his lungs and silicosis did the rest. He had been in the Navy until 1911 as a stoker. We have his service record. By some fluke of coincidence my other Grandfather served as a stoker . They even served on the same ship at different times. HMS Ariadne, a battle cruiser. They never met. I am glad I didn't have to do what they and my father's generation did.
It is so interesting to read the information about all of your relations. As I said earlier I dont believe it would be possible for anything so stupid to ever happen again. My Grandad was 17 when he got wounded, 17 !!!! like so many of the others and even younger. I have 3 sons of 21, 19 and 17 if a government said to me they wanted them to go and fight along with 100,000's of others I'm not sure how I would react and I just dont think it would be accepted now
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
Absolutely crazy mate... Do you know what Regiment he was in?
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
He was in the Artillery he was one of the blokes that rode the lead horse towing the guns ( no idea what they were called ) but he got blown up whilst pulling the gun, all I know that all of the horses were killed and he somehow survived
I know two of my Great-Grandfathers were in the Artillery themselves but not sure what branch etc. they were in as much as the others, one other only got to France in the last months of the war itself.
The final one probably has the funnier story. He started out in the navy, got bored so found an excuse to get out of that branch of the military, only to go to the Western Front with the infantry... So probably went from the safest front to the most dangerous
My grandad, Walter Gordon Davis, volunteered in 1915 aged 25 and with three young kids. He joined the Royal West Kent regiment. He was shot through the shoulder at Festubert in January 1916 but patched up and back in the ranks a few weeks later.
On 3 July he was seriously wounded during the attack on German positions around the town of Ovillers on the Somme. Fortunately, he survived.
I have been privileged to see the specific field where this happened, with the German forward trench position clearly identifiable. Just next to that field is a war cemetery. My eyes moved from the field to the cemetery around me and all the gravestones were of soldiers of the Royal West Kents, most in their late teens or early 20s who died in that same attack. My grandad's mates.
Just heartbreaking.
My grandad was demobbed in 1919 and returned home - to Floyd Road SE7. The first of 5 generations of Addicks. He died in 1969 aged 79 having had 10 kids, including my dad.
God bless grandad. God bless dad. God bless all those lost and wounded on the Somme.
Your Grandad may have known mine, @Davo55. He joined the RWKs in 1916 at the age of 16 and a few months.
He never talked much about his experiences, other than that he was a general nuisance and a major disaster when asked if he got promotion, and my brother and I suspect he suffered from PTSD all his life. We do know he was gassed, wounded and buried alive but that's what our Mum told us, not our Grandad directly.
Think i posted this way back. My Great Grandad was in the RWK's killed at Mons 1915 aged 25 years old.
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
Absolutely crazy mate... Do you know what Regiment he was in?
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
Hi I know the story or the LRB very well on that day, 'C' Coy suffered 178 casualties (out of 250) and were at the very centre of the battalion attack.
The real tragedy is that far from them being mown down by machine guns as they walked across no-man-land, (an oft trotted myth based on events in other parts of the line), C and D Coys were in position on their objectives by 0820, a timed message from Captain Somers-Smith says as much.
They had crossed no-mans-land and were fighting hand to hand with a large number of Germans in Gommecourr Park. It was the reserves that were sent to assist that got caught in No-mans-land by a German counter barrage effectively cutting the 1/5 Londons off from resupply and reinforcement.
C Coy were still on the offensive at 1321 in and around Fen and Ferret Trench, around 100 of them were seen manning Fen and Ferret and laying against the parapet at 1505 from Coy HQ.
I have a detailed account from Lance Cpl J Foaden who mentions how the fog enabled them to cross NML quickly and reach the German front line.
Due to hostile snipers they spent considerable time consolidating their newly won positions but found the going very difficult due to continual landslides.
They fought on until dusk under the command of Captain Harvey, Lewis gunners and company bombers proving most useful.
They eventually ran out of ammunition and by 1900 were surrounded on three sides so were forced to withdraw to their startline. A high number of the battalions casualties tool place coming back as opposed to going over.
I knew a number of veterans in the 56th Division, (none on the 1/5 London Rifle Brigade), all of who agreed how well prepared and trained they were for the 1st July. The felt the battle started well but when the Division on their left, the 46th (North Midland) Division, failed to get into the German trenches (they suffered horrifically that day and were not best prepared for the task in hand), the whole German defence turned of the 56th London Division. The lads held on as long as they could but were eventually forced to retire and lost many men coming back.
I have some good maps of the area and quite a few medals/letters/pics so hopefully when it's safe to do so, I can get you across there and show you the ground.
Importantly it may contextualise the losses (as in how, why and what the BEF did to avoid it happening again).
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
Absolutely crazy mate... Do you know what Regiment he was in?
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
Hi I know the story or the LRB very well on that day, 'C' Coy suffered 178 casualties (out of 250) and were at the very centre of the battalion attack.
The real tragedy is that far from them being mown down by machine guns as they walked across no-man-land, (an oft trotted myth based on events in other parts of the line), C and D Coys were in position on their objectives by 0820, a timed message from Captain Somers-Smith says as much.
They had crossed no-mans-land and were fighting hand to hand with a large number of Germans in Gommecourr Park. It was the reserves that were sent to assist that got caught in No-mans-land by a German counter barrage effectively cutting the 1/5 Londons off from resupply and reinforcement.
C Coy were still on the offensive at 1321 in and around Fen and Ferret Trench, around 100 of them were seen manning Fen and Ferret and laying against the parapet at 1505 from Coy HQ.
I have a detailed account from Lance Cpl J Foaden who mentions how the fog enabled them to cross NML quickly and reach the German front line.
Due to hostile snipers they spent considerable time consolidating their newly won positions but found the going very difficult due to continual landslides.
They fought on until dusk under the command of Captain Harvey, Lewis gunners and company bombers proving most useful.
They eventually ran out of ammunition and by 1900 were surrounded on three sides so were forced to withdraw to their startline. A high number of the battalions casualties tool place coming back as opposed to going over.
I knew a number of veterans in the 56th Division, (none on the 1/5 London Rifle Brigade), all of who agreed how well prepared and trained they were for the 1st July. The felt the battle started well but when the Division on their left, the 46th (North Midland) Division, failed to get into the German trenches (they suffered horrifically that day and were not best prepared for the task in hand), the whole German defence turned of the 56th London Division. The lads held on as long as they could but were eventually forced to retire and lost many men coming back.
I have some good maps of the area and quite a few medals/letters/pics so hopefully when it's safe to do so, I can get you across there and show you the ground.
Importantly it may contextualise the losses (as in how, why and what the BEF did to avoid it happening again).
My Great-Great Uncle was killed @ Gommecourt on the 1st day (hadnt been in France for long), his body was never found.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
Thats mental mate. That is where my Grandad was blown up, and on the same day !! the only thing he ever said to me about it was he thought it was fate as the place was called Gommecourt and our family name is Gomm. Unfortunately he died when I was 11 so I never got the chance to try and find out more of his experiences
Absolutely crazy mate... Do you know what Regiment he was in?
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
Hi I know the story or the LRB very well on that day, 'C' Coy suffered 178 casualties (out of 250) and were at the very centre of the battalion attack.
The real tragedy is that far from them being mown down by machine guns as they walked across no-man-land, (an oft trotted myth based on events in other parts of the line), C and D Coys were in position on their objectives by 0820, a timed message from Captain Somers-Smith says as much.
They had crossed no-mans-land and were fighting hand to hand with a large number of Germans in Gommecourr Park. It was the reserves that were sent to assist that got caught in No-mans-land by a German counter barrage effectively cutting the 1/5 Londons off from resupply and reinforcement.
C Coy were still on the offensive at 1321 in and around Fen and Ferret Trench, around 100 of them were seen manning Fen and Ferret and laying against the parapet at 1505 from Coy HQ.
I have a detailed account from Lance Cpl J Foaden who mentions how the fog enabled them to cross NML quickly and reach the German front line.
Due to hostile snipers they spent considerable time consolidating their newly won positions but found the going very difficult due to continual landslides.
They fought on until dusk under the command of Captain Harvey, Lewis gunners and company bombers proving most useful.
They eventually ran out of ammunition and by 1900 were surrounded on three sides so were forced to withdraw to their startline. A high number of the battalions casualties tool place coming back as opposed to going over.
I knew a number of veterans in the 56th Division, (none on the 1/5 London Rifle Brigade), all of who agreed how well prepared and trained they were for the 1st July. The felt the battle started well but when the Division on their left, the 46th (North Midland) Division, failed to get into the German trenches (they suffered horrifically that day and were not best prepared for the task in hand), the whole German defence turned of the 56th London Division. The lads held on as long as they could but were eventually forced to retire and lost many men coming back.
I have some good maps of the area and quite a few medals/letters/pics so hopefully when it's safe to do so, I can get you across there and show you the ground.
Importantly it may contextualise the losses (as in how, why and what the BEF did to avoid it happening again).
I hope that's helpful,
Clive
Thanks for that detailed reply on Gommecourt Clive... You've confirmed quite a bit of what I thought already, although wasnt aware of the foggy conditions - Such a shame that they were nothing but a diversion, and that they ran out of ammunition (so were forced to retire) as they were surely one of the few success stories 105-years ago.
Its a shame that the 46th Division werent able to link up accordingly.
You may be able to correct me on this one. But I seem to remember reading something saying that the Germans actually sent over a list of the men left behind in their trenches (cant remember if it was just wounded or those killed as well)... If so, combined with the fact that my relative was never found, you'd have to presume that he was either killed early on crossing No Man's Land or during the retreat back.
I think the German message was received by the Queens Westminster Rifles but I have histories for them and Qeen Victoria Rifles so will have a look.
The overall Corps Diversion plan led to considerable confusion as to what was achievable between the divisions.
Stuart Wortley (46th) was quite clear in it being a diversion attack away from the main Somme offensive to the South, he briefed as such and that feeling of sacrificial lambs certainly permeated among his staff and men.
By contrast, Charles Hull (who had already distinguished himself commanding the 4/Middlesex at Mons), felt that a local tactical objective could be achieved by capturing the Quadralteral just beyond Gommecourt civilian cemetery (still there today).
To that end he had recce'd the ground, written an effective battle plan. The assault troops had been rested in the lead up to the attack, exercised over similar ground away behind the front lines and all were briefed and fed on the morning of the attack.
He saw that crossing no-mans-land would be an issue so his reserve Brigade performed an brilliant night operation around the 28 June when they dug and advance trench through the night cutting the distance down by half within sight and sound of the Germans.
As you probably know Stuart Wortley was sacked whilst Hull was rewarded with his division being the first to train/cooperate with tanks and go again in September at Combles.
For the poor old 46th Division, they would not he given the chance to win back their spurs until September 1918 breaking the Hindenburg Line.When that chance finally came they took it and performed one of the greatest feats of arms of the war at Riqueval.
Hi Clive hope you are well. I have been reading your posts on the 56 London Division with interest. As the Westminsters were involved with them at Gommecourt, In 2013, I bought part of a collection of papers for Westminster Archives on Pte Charles David Waller who went missing on 1st July. The collection was so interesting because it included so much material on his father's desperate attempts to find out what happened to him. He attended every memorial service up to the unveiling of Thiepval in 1932, in an attempt to find someone who knew what had happened to his son. He even saved a press image of returning POWs in 1919 as one of the ragged group was a doppelganger for his son. He tracked down the man and was devastated to find it wasn't his only boy.
Charles Waller was with B Company QWR. He would have been unaware that he was taking part in a diversionary attack on Gommecourt that aimed to draw German reserves away from Fourth Army’s main attack. The tragedy was that the Germans knew more or less exactly the British plan of attack that day so the Westminsters were doomed to fail.
On 24 June 1916 the Official War History of the Queen’s Westminsters records that four companies of the battalion left their billets at St Armand – some men singing and cracking jokes – arriving in their assault trenches at 2am on 1 July. The prevailing mood was one of confidence although some men were more sanguine about their likely fate. One of Waller’s QWR comrades, Rifleman Percy Jones, wrote in his diary: “We hope to meet again in a day or two, but it is quite certain that in the meantime, some of us will have ‘gone west’. You cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”. The Westminsters were now poised to attack between Gommecourt and Hebuterne with two other London battalions, the Queen Victoria’s Rifles on their right and the London Rifle Brigade on their left. Rifleman Waller’s B Company was given the objective of taking two German trench lines – named Fern and Feed – and capturing a key strongpoint, the Quadrilateral.
At 7.30am 1 July 1916 the officers’ whistles blew and Waller advanced into No Man’s Land, as one of 688 men of the QWR. They found the barbed wire uncut between the first and second German trench lines, but eventually found a gap in the wire to pass through. However, a German machinegun trained on it and took a terrible toll of the battalion. By 7pm the QWR had lost all of its officers (28 men) and 72% of its NCOs and enlisted men (475 killed or wounded out of 661). The Germans then counterattacked with infantry. The Westminsters fell back under severe pressure to their own lines.
At the end of that terrible day, 57,470 men were casualties; 19,240 were dead; the rest were wounded or missing. 22 year-old Rifleman Charles Waller was among them. His remains were never found. Over the next five years his distraught father wrote a series of letters to the British military authorities to find answers. The Imperial War Graves Commission wrote to his father in August 1917 that they were unable to locate him. In 1919 and 1921 memorial services for the fallen of the QWR were held in Westminster Abbey and a year later Charles’ family was presented with his service medals as well as a brass sacrifical plaque – the so-called ‘Dead Man’s Penny’ – over a million of which were issued to the relatives of soldiers killed but whose remains were never identified. In 1923 a commemorative stained glass window in memory of the NCOs and enlisted men lost from the Queen’s Westminster Rifles was also dedicated in Westminster Abbey (it was later destroyed during the London Blitz). In 1932 David Waller travelled to France to attend the opening of the new Thiepval Memorial to the Missing, designed by Edwin Lutyens, on which were carved the names of his son and 277 others from the QWR. Charles was also commemorated in a roll of honour of old boys in the Whitgift School magazine.
As for so many British families with no grave to tend, the ripples caused by Charles Waller’s loss on the Somme spread down the succeeding decades. It was a moving postscript to Charles’ story that his grief-stricken father David subsequently raised money for the Croydon General Hospital – as a tribute to his only son lost on the Somme.
Westminster Archives provided some of the Waller collection to the Missing of the Somme exhibition at Thiepval developed by Ken and Pam Ling . I was delighted to see his picture at Thiepval when we visited the centre on the Charlton Life trip.
Every year in Remembrance Week I tell Waller's story to children by the QWR memorial casket in Westminster Abbey. I get all the children to read his name aloud from the memorial scroll so he is not forgotten.
Comments
Lest We Forget.
My Great-Grandfathers all served on the Western Front, yet always presumed that any of their Brothers were either too young or came home too - Was only a few years ago that I found out about this one Uncle of my Nan's who didnt.
Ever since have tried to potentially find out what happened to him / his company to almost put together some kind of semblance as to what happened, of course have always had a good understanding of the horror of WW1 so have presumed that had he been unlucky enough, there wouldnt have been a body to be found.
When you talk to your kids and explain why you named them so... Well this relative who laid down his life will be that reason, and will be making sure that my Son knows that when he's old enough,
There was someone else whose relative was at Gommecourt and wrote a detailed book on the diversion that day - My wife got it for my Birthday last year but havent quite gotten round to read it in full yet.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Patria-Mori-Division-Gommecourt/dp/0955811910/ref=asc_df_0955811910/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=311004790924&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8423258291100315793&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045021&hvtargid=pla-587442598754&psc=1&th=1&psc=1
Unfortunately the book didnt have details of his Company, nor a photograph (as it went into extreme detail over those who were lost from his Regiment) - Thankfully though my own research means I've been able to get both, the latter was a family photograph that my Dad found in the loft with his parents, brother (my Great-Grandfather) and sister.
Quite sad really when it was found as was dated April 1916
He never talked much about his experiences, other than that he was a general nuisance and a major disaster when asked if he got promotion, and my brother and I suspect he suffered from PTSD all his life. We do know he was gassed, wounded and buried alive but that's what our Mum told us, not our Grandad directly.
My relative was in the 1/5 London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade) - 'C' Company if I remember rightly
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ariadne_(1898)
a protected cruiser, I guess a forerunner of the armoured cruiser, but not a battlecruiser which was a much larger type.
The final one probably has the funnier story. He started out in the navy, got bored so found an excuse to get out of that branch of the military, only to go to the Western Front with the infantry... So probably went from the safest front to the most dangerous
The real tragedy is that far from them being mown down by machine guns as they walked across no-man-land, (an oft trotted myth based on events in other parts of the line), C and D Coys were in position on their objectives by 0820, a timed message from Captain Somers-Smith says as much.
They had crossed no-mans-land and were fighting hand to hand with a large number of Germans in Gommecourr Park. It was the reserves that were sent to assist that got caught in No-mans-land by a German counter barrage effectively cutting the 1/5 Londons off from resupply and reinforcement.
C Coy were still on the offensive at 1321 in and around Fen and Ferret Trench, around 100 of them were seen manning Fen and Ferret and laying against the parapet at 1505 from Coy HQ.
I have a detailed account from Lance Cpl J Foaden who mentions how the fog enabled them to cross NML quickly and reach the German front line.
Due to hostile snipers they spent considerable time consolidating their newly won positions but found the going very difficult due to continual landslides.
They fought on until dusk under the command of Captain Harvey, Lewis gunners and company bombers proving most useful.
They eventually ran out of ammunition and by 1900 were surrounded on three sides so were forced to withdraw to their startline. A high number of the battalions casualties tool place coming back as opposed to going over.
I knew a number of veterans in the 56th Division, (none on the 1/5 London Rifle Brigade), all of who agreed how well prepared and trained they were for the 1st July. The felt the battle started well but when the Division on their left, the 46th (North Midland) Division, failed to get into the German trenches (they suffered horrifically that day and were not best prepared for the task in hand), the whole German defence turned of the 56th London Division. The lads held on as long as they could but were eventually forced to retire and lost many men coming back.
I have some good maps of the area and quite a few medals/letters/pics so hopefully when it's safe to do so, I can get you across there and show you the ground.
Importantly it may contextualise the losses (as in how, why and what the BEF did to avoid it happening again).
I hope that's helpful,
Clive
Its a shame that the 46th Division werent able to link up accordingly.
You may be able to correct me on this one. But I seem to remember reading something saying that the Germans actually sent over a list of the men left behind in their trenches (cant remember if it was just wounded or those killed as well)... If so, combined with the fact that my relative was never found, you'd have to presume that he was either killed early on crossing No Man's Land or during the retreat back.
The overall Corps Diversion plan led to considerable confusion as to what was achievable between the divisions.
Stuart Wortley (46th) was quite clear in it being a diversion attack away from the main Somme offensive to the South, he briefed as such and that feeling of sacrificial lambs certainly permeated among his staff and men.
By contrast, Charles Hull (who had already distinguished himself commanding the 4/Middlesex at
Mons), felt that a local tactical objective could be achieved by capturing the Quadralteral just beyond Gommecourt civilian cemetery (still there today).
To that end he had recce'd the ground, written an effective battle plan. The assault troops had been rested in the lead up to the attack, exercised over similar ground away behind the front lines and all were briefed and fed on the morning of the attack.
He saw that crossing no-mans-land would be an issue so his reserve Brigade performed an brilliant night operation around the 28 June when they dug and advance trench through the night cutting the distance down by half within sight and sound of the Germans.
As you probably know Stuart Wortley was sacked whilst Hull was rewarded with his division being the first to train/cooperate with tanks and go again in September at Combles.
For the poor old 46th Division, they would not he given the chance to win back their spurs until September 1918 breaking the Hindenburg Line.When that chance finally came they took it and performed one of the greatest feats of arms of the war at Riqueval.
Hi Clive hope you are well. I have been reading your posts on the 56 London Division with interest. As the Westminsters were involved with them at Gommecourt, In 2013, I bought part of a collection of papers for Westminster Archives on Pte Charles David Waller who went missing on 1st July. The collection was so interesting because it included so much material on his father's desperate attempts to find out what happened to him. He attended every memorial service up to the unveiling of Thiepval in 1932, in an attempt to find someone who knew what had happened to his son. He even saved a press image of returning POWs in 1919 as one of the ragged group was a doppelganger for his son. He tracked down the man and was devastated to find it wasn't his only boy.
Charles Waller was with B Company QWR. He would have been unaware that he was taking part in a diversionary attack on Gommecourt that aimed to draw German reserves away from Fourth Army’s main attack. The tragedy was that the Germans knew more or less exactly the British plan of attack that day so the Westminsters were doomed to fail.
On 24 June 1916 the Official War History of the Queen’s Westminsters records that four companies of the battalion left their billets at St Armand – some men singing and cracking jokes – arriving in their assault trenches at 2am on 1 July. The prevailing mood was one of confidence although some men were more sanguine about their likely fate. One of Waller’s QWR comrades, Rifleman Percy Jones, wrote in his diary: “We hope to meet again in a day or two, but it is quite certain that in the meantime, some of us will have ‘gone west’. You cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”. The Westminsters were now poised to attack between Gommecourt and Hebuterne with two other London battalions, the Queen Victoria’s Rifles on their right and the London Rifle Brigade on their left. Rifleman Waller’s B Company was given the objective of taking two German trench lines – named Fern and Feed – and capturing a key strongpoint, the Quadrilateral.
At 7.30am 1 July 1916 the officers’ whistles blew and Waller advanced into No Man’s Land, as one of 688 men of the QWR. They found the barbed wire uncut between the first and second German trench lines, but eventually found a gap in the wire to pass through. However, a German machinegun trained on it and took a terrible toll of the battalion. By 7pm the QWR had lost all of its officers (28 men) and 72% of its NCOs and enlisted men (475 killed or wounded out of 661). The Germans then counterattacked with infantry. The Westminsters fell back under severe pressure to their own lines.
At the end of that terrible day, 57,470 men were casualties; 19,240 were dead; the rest were wounded or missing. 22 year-old Rifleman Charles Waller was among them. His remains were never found. Over the next five years his distraught father wrote a series of letters to the British military authorities to find answers. The Imperial War Graves Commission wrote to his father in August 1917 that they were unable to locate him. In 1919 and 1921 memorial services for the fallen of the QWR were held in Westminster Abbey and a year later Charles’ family was presented with his service medals as well as a brass sacrifical plaque – the so-called ‘Dead Man’s Penny’ – over a million of which were issued to the relatives of soldiers killed but whose remains were never identified. In 1923 a commemorative stained glass window in memory of the NCOs and enlisted men lost from the Queen’s Westminster Rifles was also dedicated in Westminster Abbey (it was later destroyed during the London Blitz). In 1932 David Waller travelled to France to attend the opening of the new Thiepval Memorial to the Missing, designed by Edwin Lutyens, on which were carved the names of his son and 277 others from the QWR. Charles was also commemorated in a roll of honour of old boys in the Whitgift School magazine.
As for so many British families with no grave to tend, the ripples caused by Charles Waller’s loss on the Somme spread down the succeeding decades. It was a moving postscript to Charles’ story that his grief-stricken father David subsequently raised money for the Croydon General Hospital – as a tribute to his only son lost on the Somme.
Westminster Archives provided some of the Waller collection to the Missing of the Somme exhibition at Thiepval developed by Ken and Pam Ling . I was delighted to see his picture at Thiepval when we visited the centre on the Charlton Life trip.
Every year in Remembrance Week I tell Waller's story to children by the QWR memorial casket in Westminster Abbey. I get all the children to read his name aloud from the memorial scroll so he is not forgotten.