How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?
Why is it relevant ?
Well because if law enforcement in the US is so inherently racist, as quite a few people on both sides of the pond keep saying, surely this would be the case in them not wishing to save lives as well as cold bloodedly shooting non white folk on sight
Eh - so because the police have done their job some of the time we can ignore a couple of summary executions here or there ?
You know that ain't what I'm saying ffs
I honestly don't.
Okay, I'm saying that the vast vast majority of law inforcement in the US go to work every day to help protect the public, black, white, whatever. I don't think it's right for people that don't even live in the same country, let alone do the same job, to accuse them of being inherently racist. As I said before though, these latest 2 look like the coppers were in the wrong on both occasions. But put yourself in their positions (ref. my first video on a previous post)
Why is it necessary for the Police to pull a gun all the time, what's wrong with using a taser?
In a country where gun ownership is incredibly common I wouldn't want to pull a taser on someone with a firearm.
The police gun was already in the black guy's face before he reached for his licence so he would have been zapped with thousands of volts even if had gone for a weapon. I cannot see any excuse made in this particular instance.
No excuses?? The guy had a gun on him! Why is he carrying a gun if he wouldn't use it?
He was legally allowed to carry that weapon. That also doesn't mean he was going to use it on the police officer.
Doesn't answer my question, WHY? Why carry a gun whether it's legal or not unless you were going to use it? I don't carry a cricket bat everywhere I go just because I'm entitled to!
So, using your analogy, it would be ok for an officer to, let's say tazer you if we are saying this country, just because you are carrying a cricket bat? You don't think there would be any sort of uproar? I mean yes, if you were holding it in an aggressive manner or were charging at an officer, completely understandable. But what if you had it in your bag, told the officer it was in your bag and he tazered you. That would be fine would it?
If I resisted arrest and went for my cricket bat I would expect the full physical force of the law. Fortunately I'm not dumb enough to carry a weapon everywhere I go nor would I resist arrest/search etc if I had nothing to hide.
He didn't resist arrest.
What were they doing before he was shot then cuddling?
I have a feeling we're talking about different incidents.
The conversation began about Philando Castile though?
Why is it necessary for the Police to pull a gun all the time, what's wrong with using a taser?
In a country where gun ownership is incredibly common I wouldn't want to pull a taser on someone with a firearm.
The police gun was already in the black guy's face before he reached for his licence so he would have been zapped with thousands of volts even if had gone for a weapon. I cannot see any excuse made in this particular instance.
No excuses?? The guy had a gun on him! Why is he carrying a gun if he wouldn't use it?
He was legally allowed to carry that weapon. That also doesn't mean he was going to use it on the police officer.
Doesn't answer my question, WHY? Why carry a gun whether it's legal or not unless you were going to use it? I don't carry a cricket bat everywhere I go just because I'm entitled to!
So, using your analogy, it would be ok for an officer to, let's say tazer you if we are saying this country, just because you are carrying a cricket bat? You don't think there would be any sort of uproar? I mean yes, if you were holding it in an aggressive manner or were charging at an officer, completely understandable. But what if you had it in your bag, told the officer it was in your bag and he tazered you. That would be fine would it?
If I resisted arrest and went for my cricket bat I would expect the full physical force of the law. Fortunately I'm not dumb enough to carry a weapon everywhere I go nor would I resist arrest/search etc if I had nothing to hide.
He didn't resist arrest.
What were they doing before he was shot then cuddling?
I have a feeling we're talking about different incidents.
The conversation began about Philando Castile though?
Oh good it isn't me who's the idiot then.
I entered the conversation discussing carry guns and at some point someone went with one story and I was referring to another.
Untwist your knickers, it really hurt my feelings when you called me an idiot.
Why is it necessary for the Police to pull a gun all the time, what's wrong with using a taser?
In a country where gun ownership is incredibly common I wouldn't want to pull a taser on someone with a firearm.
The police gun was already in the black guy's face before he reached for his licence so he would have been zapped with thousands of volts even if had gone for a weapon. I cannot see any excuse made in this particular instance.
No excuses?? The guy had a gun on him! Why is he carrying a gun if he wouldn't use it?
He was legally allowed to carry that weapon. That also doesn't mean he was going to use it on the police officer.
Doesn't answer my question, WHY? Why carry a gun whether it's legal or not unless you were going to use it? I don't carry a cricket bat everywhere I go just because I'm entitled to!
So, using your analogy, it would be ok for an officer to, let's say tazer you if we are saying this country, just because you are carrying a cricket bat? You don't think there would be any sort of uproar? I mean yes, if you were holding it in an aggressive manner or were charging at an officer, completely understandable. But what if you had it in your bag, told the officer it was in your bag and he tazered you. That would be fine would it?
If I resisted arrest and went for my cricket bat I would expect the full physical force of the law. Fortunately I'm not dumb enough to carry a weapon everywhere I go nor would I resist arrest/search etc if I had nothing to hide.
He didn't resist arrest.
What were they doing before he was shot then cuddling?
I have a feeling we're talking about different incidents.
The conversation began about Philando Castile though?
Oh good it isn't me who's the idiot then.
I entered the conversation discussing carry guns and at some point someone went with one story and I was referring to another.
Untwist your knickers, it really hurt my feelings when you called me an idiot.
Am I allowed to untwist them? I mean there is a concealed weapon down there.
53 years ago in Dallas, the best hope for Black America to make some progress disappeared with the Shooting of JFK. How ironic that the Grandchildren of black Americans from the 60's still feel the same way despite having a Black President.
IMO had MLK and Robert Kennedy not gone the same way then things would have progressed, however shocking JFK's assassination was. At that point it seemed that anyone trying to do the right thing was a target.
The gun culture is out of control. If everyone is (potentially) armed, then not surprisingly the police will overreact at the merest twitch from someone in a tense situation, and we know they are more likely to overreact more to people with particular profiles. Prison & arrest are not deterrents, which is why the jail population is ridiculously high.
Agreed. For me it was Bobby's death that ended the hope.
Spot on.
The triple killings of first JFK in 63, then Martin Luther King in April 68, Followed by Bobby Kennedy in June 68 sowed the seeds that are still coming to fruition today.
The Kennedy Brothers upset so many different people, That they could have been killed by Mafia, Right wingers, Russian supporters or even spurned lovers ETC.
Why is it necessary for the Police to pull a gun all the time, what's wrong with using a taser?
In a country where gun ownership is incredibly common I wouldn't want to pull a taser on someone with a firearm.
The police gun was already in the black guy's face before he reached for his licence so he would have been zapped with thousands of volts even if had gone for a weapon. I cannot see any excuse made in this particular instance.
No excuses?? The guy had a gun on him! Why is he carrying a gun if he wouldn't use it?
He was legally allowed to carry that weapon. That also doesn't mean he was going to use it on the police officer.
Doesn't answer my question, WHY? Why carry a gun whether it's legal or not unless you were going to use it? I don't carry a cricket bat everywhere I go just because I'm entitled to!
So, using your analogy, it would be ok for an officer to, let's say tazer you if we are saying this country, just because you are carrying a cricket bat? You don't think there would be any sort of uproar? I mean yes, if you were holding it in an aggressive manner or were charging at an officer, completely understandable. But what if you had it in your bag, told the officer it was in your bag and he tazered you. That would be fine would it?
If I resisted arrest and went for my cricket bat I would expect the full physical force of the law. Fortunately I'm not dumb enough to carry a weapon everywhere I go nor would I resist arrest/search etc if I had nothing to hide.
He didn't resist arrest.
What were they doing before he was shot then cuddling?
I have a feeling we're talking about different incidents.
The conversation began about Philando Castile though?
Oh good it isn't me who's the idiot then.
I entered the conversation discussing carry guns and at some point someone went with one story and I was referring to another.
Untwist your knickers, it really hurt my feelings when you called me an idiot.
Am I allowed to untwist them? I mean there is a concealed weapon down there.
How many black lives are saved by the police in the US every year?
Why is it relevant ?
Well because if law enforcement in the US is so inherently racist, as quite a few people on both sides of the pond keep saying, surely this would be the case in them not wishing to save lives as well as cold bloodedly shooting non white folk on sight
Eh - so because the police have done their job some of the time we can ignore a couple of summary executions here or there ?
You know that ain't what I'm saying ffs
I honestly don't.
Okay, I'm saying that the vast vast majority of law inforcement in the US go to work every day to help protect the public, black, white, whatever. I don't think it's right for people that don't even live in the same country, let alone do the same job, to accuse them of being inherently racist. As I said before though, these latest 2 look like the coppers were in the wrong on both occasions. But put yourself in their positions (ref. my first video on a previous post)
Robert, I do not think anyone believes that every police officer in the US is a racist. The vast majority are in the job to protect all citizens but some will be racist. The same goes for the UK - there will be some racist police officers but the vast majority not. Is America more racist than the UK? Anecdotally, probably yes - but that is more to do with history and geography than societal norms. But I do not profess to being an expert.
The first incident in Louisiana looks worse for me and I find it hard to imagine what defence the police could possibly put up. The Minnesota incident is not as clear cut - the defence here, from perhaps a trigger happy police officer, could be that the man said he had a gun and then went for it. That will clearly be up to the courts to decide.
The big difference for me is that an incident of police racism in the UK is far, far less likely to result in death than in the US. If a police officer pulled someone over in the UK for a faulty rear light he wouldn't be carrying a gun and would equally not expect the person he'd pulled over to be doing so either.
Edit: I might have got the two incidents mixed up - it's the one with the guy in the car that is less cut and dried.
What's the issue with Fox news? Maybe because I'm British, I don't get it... I only know that we get the jokes on family guy too.
Some people go into default when a point is made by some news outlets, contrary to what they think
Tbf I understand why people have a problem with it. If someone keeps spouting absolute shit most of the time you soon can't trust anything they say. Even if they do have a point at times.
What's the issue with Fox news? Maybe because I'm British, I don't get it... I only know that we get the jokes on family guy too.
Some people go into default when a point is made by some news outlets, contrary to what they think
Tbf I understand why people have a problem with it. If someone keeps spouting absolute shit most of the time you soon can't trust anything they say. Even if they do have a point at times.
I'd agree mate, if it was the Channel making the points in the videos I shared, but it wasn't, it was the people they were interviewing.
I think BR7 is talking about the other guy who got shot. The bloke convicted of child molesting, domestic violence, resisting arrest and illegal possession of a firearm. They were on the floor.
What's the issue with Fox news? Maybe because I'm British, I don't get it... I only know that we get the jokes on family guy too.
Some people go into default when a point is made by some news outlets, contrary to what they think
Tbf I understand why people have a problem with it. If someone keeps spouting absolute shit most of the time you soon can't trust anything they say. Even if they do have a point at times.
I'd agree mate, if it was the Channel making the points in the videos I shared, but it wasn't, it was the people they were interviewing.
The first and the third video were very good, I got interrupted midway through the second one but can't comment.
I'm not too sure how anyone can dismiss them simply because of the "Fox" logo. The first one was an activist learning - in a controlled environment - about how difficult these judgement calls are, and his change of opinion afterwards is powerful.
As for the third video, I remember seeing it at the time and thinking about how much respect I had for that officer - arguably the most emotion I've seen anyone speak with, and he underlines just how shitty it is to be trying to protect the very people who are slinging accusations at you left, right and centre.
That's the problem. I think American's have long made peace with the fact that if you arm the police and arm the public then deaths will happen eventually, but the lack of convictions for sometimes cold-blooded murder is shocking. The police aren't being held to even the lowest standard the public are held to when they should beheld to a far higher standard.
What's the issue with Fox news? Maybe because I'm British, I don't get it... I only know that we get the jokes on family guy too.
Some people go into default when a point is made by some news outlets, contrary to what they think
Tbf I understand why people have a problem with it. If someone keeps spouting absolute shit most of the time you soon can't trust anything they say. Even if they do have a point at times.
I'd agree mate, if it was the Channel making the points in the videos I shared, but it wasn't, it was the people they were interviewing.
Soory mate. haven't seen the videos as I'm on my phone thats why I thought it was an argument on fox news. but i would say that fox don't come across as a network with balance views so they might interview and edit to put across their agenda. However those bering interviewed are of those opinions.
Though on the point of police getting a hard time due to their supposed racism is tarring so many hard working officers who have a very challenging job. Ive never been to America nevermind lived in it but the racism is obviously still very much a problem. I was surprised when I watched "show me a hero" on catch up. It was based in the 90s and the anger against social housing for mainly black people in a white middle class neighbourhood was startlingly. This is now 20 odd years on and these prejudices on both sides are still leading to deaths. It's pathetic whatever news channel it's on.
Something about the whole thing just doesn't seem to add up to me, randomly woke up to it happening and saw one of the earlier videos and it certainly didn't sound like sniper fire, it was relentless shots from what sounded like at least 4-5 at least semi-automatic guns. I'm not one for conspiracy theories or set ups but something seems off.
Something about the whole thing just doesn't seem to add up to me, randomly woke up to it happening and saw one of the earlier videos and it certainly didn't sound like sniper fire, it was relentless shots from what sounded like at least 4-5 at least semi-automatic guns. I'm not one for conspiracy theories or set ups but something seems off.
Agreed. The video on Twitter where the bloke runs up and does the policeman point blank with multiple shots, definitely isn't using a sniper.
Wouldn't shock me if this was an inside job to take the heat off the old bill tbh
re. The Fox News video. They took a guy with no training whatsoever, put a gun in his hand - not a taser or baton - forced him to walk right up to someone suspicious and made it seem as though the only correct course of action was to kill him. And that in turn made it seem like cops are justified in killing people.
Comments
Untwist your knickers, it really hurt my feelings when you called me an idiot.
If the guardian was a news channel, but left wing instead of right
The triple killings of first JFK in 63, then Martin Luther King in April 68,
Followed by Bobby Kennedy in June 68 sowed the seeds that are still coming to fruition today.
The Kennedy Brothers upset so many different people,
That they could have been killed by Mafia, Right wingers, Russian supporters or even spurned lovers ETC.
The first incident in Louisiana looks worse for me and I find it hard to imagine what defence the police could possibly put up. The Minnesota incident is not as clear cut - the defence here, from perhaps a trigger happy police officer, could be that the man said he had a gun and then went for it. That will clearly be up to the courts to decide.
The big difference for me is that an incident of police racism in the UK is far, far less likely to result in death than in the US. If a police officer pulled someone over in the UK for a faulty rear light he wouldn't be carrying a gun and would equally not expect the person he'd pulled over to be doing so either.
Edit: I might have got the two incidents mixed up - it's the one with the guy in the car that is less cut and dried.
I'm not too sure how anyone can dismiss them simply because of the "Fox" logo. The first one was an activist learning - in a controlled environment - about how difficult these judgement calls are, and his change of opinion afterwards is powerful.
As for the third video, I remember seeing it at the time and thinking about how much respect I had for that officer - arguably the most emotion I've seen anyone speak with, and he underlines just how shitty it is to be trying to protect the very people who are slinging accusations at you left, right and centre.
That simply cannot be right. The law should be the same for everyone, including the police.
Though on the point of police getting a hard time due to their supposed racism is tarring so many hard working officers who have a very challenging job.
Ive never been to America nevermind lived in it but the racism is obviously still very much a problem. I was surprised when I watched "show me a hero" on catch up. It was based in the 90s and the anger against social housing for mainly black people in a white middle class neighbourhood was startlingly.
This is now 20 odd years on and these prejudices on both sides are still leading to deaths. It's pathetic whatever news channel it's on.
Wouldn't shock me if this was an inside job to take the heat off the old bill tbh
That's EXACTLY what Fox news are all about.