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Savings and Investments thread

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  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    edited May 2021
    valleynick66 said:
    kentaddick said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    My gold fund (in my SIPP) is almost back in profit  :D

    EDIT, I'm in profit!


    But that fund doesn't invest in Gold, in invests in companies that mine gold and other precious metals. It's an equity fund - not a commodity fund.

    On the subject of bitcoin. I'm like Manuel on this - I know nothing. But on the subject of what it is, once again it is an equity. It's not cash, as you can not trade stuff with it. It is not a commodity, as it's not physical. It acts like an equity due to the volatility. I did read the other day that it is also not very environmentally friendly due to the amount of electricity is being used just to store it. Electricity which is mainly powered by coal. There are millions & millions of computers running 24/7 just to keep the thing "alive".

    When one of the thousands of fund managers around the world start using it in their portfolios then I will take a look. Until then......
    This is incorrect. Even if it was, isn’t this simply just a case of we need the grid to go green? Bitcoin is “alive” regardless of if miners are on or not. Is the internet not just servers being kept on to keep it “alive”? If the amount of miners go down the transaction times go up... briefly. The beauty of bitcoin is it can never be truly “switched off”

    How much energy is used mining gold, and maintaining the wasteful banking and financial sector? 
    What is wasteful ?

    I agree all companies / activities consume electricity so not sure the accusation (not from people on this forum) of Crypto being a particular drain is accurate or remotely relevant.

    The general concern that people don't really know what they are investing in or why its so volatile (relative to other investments) is however pertinent.

    I think its right to be suspicious / cautious of something new that some seem to think is perfectly reasonable to rise in 'value' and make people rich way in excess of more traditional investments.

    The old adage if its too good to be true...
    ... are we really thinking that modern day banking isn't a hugely wasteful use of energy? Crypto uses mathematics and code whilst banking uses human beings and legal regulations. Which one do you think consumes more energy? Crypto and bitcoin isnt a get rich quick scheme, it's a get rich in 10 years scheme. If you would have bought $100 of bitcoin 10 years ago, you'd be a millionaire by now.
  • valleynick66
    valleynick66 Posts: 4,886
    kentaddick said:
    valleynick66 said:
    kentaddick said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    My gold fund (in my SIPP) is almost back in profit  :D

    EDIT, I'm in profit!


    But that fund doesn't invest in Gold, in invests in companies that mine gold and other precious metals. It's an equity fund - not a commodity fund.

    On the subject of bitcoin. I'm like Manuel on this - I know nothing. But on the subject of what it is, once again it is an equity. It's not cash, as you can not trade stuff with it. It is not a commodity, as it's not physical. It acts like an equity due to the volatility. I did read the other day that it is also not very environmentally friendly due to the amount of electricity is being used just to store it. Electricity which is mainly powered by coal. There are millions & millions of computers running 24/7 just to keep the thing "alive".

    When one of the thousands of fund managers around the world start using it in their portfolios then I will take a look. Until then......
    This is incorrect. Even if it was, isn’t this simply just a case of we need the grid to go green? Bitcoin is “alive” regardless of if miners are on or not. Is the internet not just servers being kept on to keep it “alive”? If the amount of miners go down the transaction times go up... briefly. The beauty of bitcoin is it can never be truly “switched off”

    How much energy is used mining gold, and maintaining the wasteful banking and financial sector? 
    What is wasteful ?

    I agree all companies / activities consume electricity so not sure the accusation (not from people on this forum) of Crypto being a particular drain is accurate or remotely relevant.

    The general concern that people don't really know what they are investing in or why its so volatile (relative to other investments) is however pertinent.

    I think its right to be suspicious / cautious of something new that some seem to think is perfectly reasonable to rise in 'value' and make people rich way in excess of more traditional investments.

    The old adage if its too good to be true...
    ... are we really thinking that modern day banking isn't a hugely wasteful use of energy? Crypto uses mathematics and code whilst banking uses human beings and legal regulations. Which one do you think consumes more energy? Crypto and bitcoin isnt a get rich quick scheme, it's a get rich in 10 years scheme. If you would have bought $100 of bitcoin 10 years ago, you'd be a millionaire by now.
    So you are agreeing with me that many industries are consuming energy not that banking and crypto are guilty is specific way beyond normal operations ?

    You’ll find after all the number of people in banking is fewer today than previous years as technology prevails. 

    If however you are suggesting banking is in some way using human beings unnecessarily (whilst at the same time employing and generating tax revenues) then I struggle to agree. 

    Crypto and banking can co-exist at least for now. 

    You may not see crypto as get rich quick but it seems to me a good number do and therein lies the risk. 


  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    edited May 2021
    valleynick66 said:
    kentaddick said:
    valleynick66 said:
    kentaddick said:
    golfaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    My gold fund (in my SIPP) is almost back in profit  :D

    EDIT, I'm in profit!


    But that fund doesn't invest in Gold, in invests in companies that mine gold and other precious metals. It's an equity fund - not a commodity fund.

    On the subject of bitcoin. I'm like Manuel on this - I know nothing. But on the subject of what it is, once again it is an equity. It's not cash, as you can not trade stuff with it. It is not a commodity, as it's not physical. It acts like an equity due to the volatility. I did read the other day that it is also not very environmentally friendly due to the amount of electricity is being used just to store it. Electricity which is mainly powered by coal. There are millions & millions of computers running 24/7 just to keep the thing "alive".

    When one of the thousands of fund managers around the world start using it in their portfolios then I will take a look. Until then......
    This is incorrect. Even if it was, isn’t this simply just a case of we need the grid to go green? Bitcoin is “alive” regardless of if miners are on or not. Is the internet not just servers being kept on to keep it “alive”? If the amount of miners go down the transaction times go up... briefly. The beauty of bitcoin is it can never be truly “switched off”

    How much energy is used mining gold, and maintaining the wasteful banking and financial sector? 
    What is wasteful ?

    I agree all companies / activities consume electricity so not sure the accusation (not from people on this forum) of Crypto being a particular drain is accurate or remotely relevant.

    The general concern that people don't really know what they are investing in or why its so volatile (relative to other investments) is however pertinent.

    I think its right to be suspicious / cautious of something new that some seem to think is perfectly reasonable to rise in 'value' and make people rich way in excess of more traditional investments.

    The old adage if its too good to be true...
    ... are we really thinking that modern day banking isn't a hugely wasteful use of energy? Crypto uses mathematics and code whilst banking uses human beings and legal regulations. Which one do you think consumes more energy? Crypto and bitcoin isnt a get rich quick scheme, it's a get rich in 10 years scheme. If you would have bought $100 of bitcoin 10 years ago, you'd be a millionaire by now.
    So you are agreeing with me that many industries are consuming energy not that banking and crypto are guilty is specific way beyond normal operations ?

    You’ll find after all the number of people in banking is fewer today than previous years as technology prevails. 

    If however you are suggesting banking is in some way using human beings unnecessarily (whilst at the same time employing and generating tax revenues) then I struggle to agree. 

    Crypto and banking can co-exist at least for now. 

    You may not see crypto as get rich quick but it seems to me a good number do and therein lies the risk. 


    i completely agree with this, my (admittedly small) investments are based around this hypothesis. Banks will be what brings crypto, specifically DEFI to the mainstream, much to the annoyance of traditional investors and bitcoin maximalists.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    On the Bitcoin/environment thing, again the FT (which has no reason to be irrationally anti-crypto; no ther major medium has so many writers who actually know their stuff when it comes to the finance. The clue is in the name).

    They've just done a Big Read on the environmental issue. The FT is paywalled, although I think you can get some articles for free each month. Some clips:

    “Bitcoin alone consumes as much electricity as a medium-sized European country,” says Professor Brian Lucey at Trinity College Dublin. “This is a stunning amount of electricity. It’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty currency.”

    "Economic authorities are starting to take notice. The European Central Bank on Wednesday described cryptoassets’ “exorbitant carbon footprint” as “grounds for concern”. In a paper earlier this month, Italy’s central bank said the eurozone’s payments system, Tips, had a carbon footprint 40,000 times smaller than that of bitcoin in 2019. Measuring precisely how dirty bitcoin is has become a cottage industry in itself. The latest calculation from Cambridge university’s Bitcoin Electricity Consumption index suggests that bitcoin mining consumes 133.68 terawatt hours a year of electricity — a best-guess tally that has risen consistently for the past five years. That places it just above Sweden, at 131.8TWh of electricity usage in 2020, and just below Malaysia, at 147.21TWh."

    n.b. that's Sweden, the entire country!!!

    The true figure for bitcoin could in fact be much higher; Cambridge’s extreme worst-case scenario calculation, based on miners using the least energy-efficient computers on the market as long as the process is still profitable, has peeled away from its central estimate sharply since November last year as the price of bitcoin has rocketed. The rationale: a rising bitcoin price attracts new miners, and also means that mining with older, less efficient equipment, makes financial sense. The higher price also means the machines producing bitcoin are forced to complete ever-tougher puzzles in search of their quarry. At the upper limit, bitcoin’s electricity consumption would be about 500TWh a year. The UK consumes 300TWh. About 65 per cent of the crypto mining comes from China, where coal makes up around 60 per cent of the energy mix.

    Naturally, there is space for disagreement on these statistics, and all studies on the issue accept elements of uncertainty. “There’s a lot of shades of grey,” says Michel Rauchs, a research affiliate who works on the Cambridge index. Rauchs points out that a slice of the mining in China comes from clean hydroelectric power, including with machines that are transported from the north to the south of the country on trucks each year in the wet season. That hydro power is not necessarily diverted from anywhere else; some of these power stations were founded for factories that no longer exist, Rauchs says.

    A greener version of bitcoin is, in theory, possible. Bitcoin’s code could switch to a less energy-intensive consensus mechanism, whereby a new section of the blockchain ledger underlying the cryptocurrency would follow different rules. However, every miner would need to switch for the new path to work. Industry insiders say it is hard to imagine the entire bitcoin community, which is peppered with disagreements, lending support to such a plan.

    Lots more but I think that captures the key points, and the nuance of the issue.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    edited May 2021
    PragueAddick said:
    On the Bitcoin/environment thing, again the FT (which has no reason to be irrationally anti-crypto; no ther major medium has so many writers who actually know their stuff when it comes to the finance. The clue is in the name).

    They've just done a Big Read on the environmental issue. The FT is paywalled, although I think you can get some articles for free each month. Some clips:

    “Bitcoin alone consumes as much electricity as a medium-sized European country,” says Professor Brian Lucey at Trinity College Dublin. “This is a stunning amount of electricity. It’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty currency.”

    "Economic authorities are starting to take notice. The European Central Bank on Wednesday described cryptoassets’ “exorbitant carbon footprint” as “grounds for concern”. In a paper earlier this month, Italy’s central bank said the eurozone’s payments system, Tips, had a carbon footprint 40,000 times smaller than that of bitcoin in 2019. Measuring precisely how dirty bitcoin is has become a cottage industry in itself. The latest calculation from Cambridge university’s Bitcoin Electricity Consumption index suggests that bitcoin mining consumes 133.68 terawatt hours a year of electricity — a best-guess tally that has risen consistently for the past five years. That places it just above Sweden, at 131.8TWh of electricity usage in 2020, and just below Malaysia, at 147.21TWh."

    n.b. that's Sweden, the entire country!!!

    The true figure for bitcoin could in fact be much higher; Cambridge’s extreme worst-case scenario calculation, based on miners using the least energy-efficient computers on the market as long as the process is still profitable, has peeled away from its central estimate sharply since November last year as the price of bitcoin has rocketed. The rationale: a rising bitcoin price attracts new miners, and also means that mining with older, less efficient equipment, makes financial sense. The higher price also means the machines producing bitcoin are forced to complete ever-tougher puzzles in search of their quarry. At the upper limit, bitcoin’s electricity consumption would be about 500TWh a year. The UK consumes 300TWh. About 65 per cent of the crypto mining comes from China, where coal makes up around 60 per cent of the energy mix.

    Naturally, there is space for disagreement on these statistics, and all studies on the issue accept elements of uncertainty. “There’s a lot of shades of grey,” says Michel Rauchs, a research affiliate who works on the Cambridge index. Rauchs points out that a slice of the mining in China comes from clean hydroelectric power, including with machines that are transported from the north to the south of the country on trucks each year in the wet season. That hydro power is not necessarily diverted from anywhere else; some of these power stations were founded for factories that no longer exist, Rauchs says.

    A greener version of bitcoin is, in theory, possible. Bitcoin’s code could switch to a less energy-intensive consensus mechanism, whereby a new section of the blockchain ledger underlying the cryptocurrency would follow different rules. However, every miner would need to switch for the new path to work. Industry insiders say it is hard to imagine the entire bitcoin community, which is peppered with disagreements, lending support to such a plan.

    Lots more but I think that captures the key points, and the nuance of the issue.
    Once again, FT with poorly researched bitcoin articles. For such a well respected publication they don’t half write rubbish. Bitcoin is fairly regularly updated and forks tend to happen when they do (bitcoin cash being one such example) when some miners decide they don’t agree with the new update. Not all miners need to agree - plus it’s not up to them, it’s up to node operators who are the regulators of the network and approve blocks mined by the miners.

    I think the issue this points out is that China needs to move away from coal - but we already knew that, and is utterly unrelated to crypto. 

    Plus, aren’t China meant to be banning crypto mining? In which case, in one fell swoop this FUD falls apart.

  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    kentaddick said:
    PragueAddick said:
    On the Bitcoin/environment thing, again the FT (which has no reason to be irrationally anti-crypto; no ther major medium has so many writers who actually know their stuff when it comes to the finance. The clue is in the name).

    They've just done a Big Read on the environmental issue. The FT is paywalled, although I think you can get some articles for free each month. Some clips:

    “Bitcoin alone consumes as much electricity as a medium-sized European country,” says Professor Brian Lucey at Trinity College Dublin. “This is a stunning amount of electricity. It’s a dirty business. It’s a dirty currency.”

    "Economic authorities are starting to take notice. The European Central Bank on Wednesday described cryptoassets’ “exorbitant carbon footprint” as “grounds for concern”. In a paper earlier this month, Italy’s central bank said the eurozone’s payments system, Tips, had a carbon footprint 40,000 times smaller than that of bitcoin in 2019. Measuring precisely how dirty bitcoin is has become a cottage industry in itself. The latest calculation from Cambridge university’s Bitcoin Electricity Consumption index suggests that bitcoin mining consumes 133.68 terawatt hours a year of electricity — a best-guess tally that has risen consistently for the past five years. That places it just above Sweden, at 131.8TWh of electricity usage in 2020, and just below Malaysia, at 147.21TWh."

    n.b. that's Sweden, the entire country!!!

    The true figure for bitcoin could in fact be much higher; Cambridge’s extreme worst-case scenario calculation, based on miners using the least energy-efficient computers on the market as long as the process is still profitable, has peeled away from its central estimate sharply since November last year as the price of bitcoin has rocketed. The rationale: a rising bitcoin price attracts new miners, and also means that mining with older, less efficient equipment, makes financial sense. The higher price also means the machines producing bitcoin are forced to complete ever-tougher puzzles in search of their quarry. At the upper limit, bitcoin’s electricity consumption would be about 500TWh a year. The UK consumes 300TWh. About 65 per cent of the crypto mining comes from China, where coal makes up around 60 per cent of the energy mix.

    Naturally, there is space for disagreement on these statistics, and all studies on the issue accept elements of uncertainty. “There’s a lot of shades of grey,” says Michel Rauchs, a research affiliate who works on the Cambridge index. Rauchs points out that a slice of the mining in China comes from clean hydroelectric power, including with machines that are transported from the north to the south of the country on trucks each year in the wet season. That hydro power is not necessarily diverted from anywhere else; some of these power stations were founded for factories that no longer exist, Rauchs says.

    A greener version of bitcoin is, in theory, possible. Bitcoin’s code could switch to a less energy-intensive consensus mechanism, whereby a new section of the blockchain ledger underlying the cryptocurrency would follow different rules. However, every miner would need to switch for the new path to work. Industry insiders say it is hard to imagine the entire bitcoin community, which is peppered with disagreements, lending support to such a plan.

    Lots more but I think that captures the key points, and the nuance of the issue.
    Once again, FT with poorly researched bitcoin articles. For such a well respected publication they don’t half write rubbish. Bitcoin is fairly regularly updated and forks tend to happen when they do (bitcoin cash being one such example) when some miners decide they don’t agree with the new update. Not all miners need to agree - plus it’s not up to them, it’s up to node operators who are the regulators of the network and approve blocks mined by the miners.

    I think the issue this points out is that China needs to move away from coal - but we already knew that, and is utterly unrelated to crypto. 

    Plus, aren’t China meant to be banning crypto mining? In which case, in one fell swoop this FUD falls apart.

    Well what the People's Bank of China did earlier in the week was "... warned financial institutions off accepting cryptocurrencies as payment or offering related services and products." Then late yesterday: "China’s vice-premier Liu He ... restated Beijing’s determination to curb cryptocurrency mining and trading triggered the latest decline". Seems to me they will find it far easier to curb the trading than the mining. 

    It's up to you how you address this issue. AFAIK you are generally somebody who appreciates the seriousness of the climate crisis. Whether its clean or not, if it takes more energy to produce Bitcoin than the whole country of Sweden needs to power everything, that really ought to be pause for thought. Sadly it seems to me that a lot of Bitcoin fans are also climate deniers and anti-vaxxer types. I don't share your faith that the "community" will move to address it.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,594
    Nothing on the premium bonds this month for all 4 of us :( .  My father in law won again though, £25, always wins he does.
  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,616
    £25 for me.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    Sooo, how do we see markets right now? I was going to write that FTSE 100, of interest to me only because of our competition (maybe time for a review @Rob7Lee as we enter the final month?) has been treading water but it has perked up today. Otherwise FTSE250 and Europe both look strong while tech is more mixed. But as usual, so many mixed signals. Have the vaccines triumphed over Covid yet? The answer to that question sounds different for any of us sitting in SE Asia, compared to here in Europe. Inflation is back? For how long? There are labour shortages and also materials shortages appearing. My Swedish buddy heads up a premium scaffolding manufacturer, he told me British Steel basically cannot deliver for months ahead. Here Skoda Auto has 20,000 cars it cannot finish and get out on sale due to the chip shortage, while the hospitlaity biz, finally opening up, finds that many of its staff have drifted off to more secure jobs in Lidl...

    Right now it looks like my own FTSE100 forecast (I think it was 7100) may fall a bit short this time (and I'd rather than than the other way, of course), but there are some big new issues appearing. But then, when was that not true? 
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,594
    On todays opening price of 7080, TellMc32 spot on if it were today!

    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    @TelMc32708000.00%
    Exiledin Manchester7106260.37%
    PragueAddick7110300.42%
    LargeAddick7047330.47%
    valleynick667121410.58%
    golfaddick7132520.73%
    Bangkokaddick7025550.78%
    gunnessaddick7021590.83%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub7150700.99%
    Morboe6990.589.51.26%
    StrikerFirmani69801001.41%
    Fortune 82nd Minute69631171.65%
    Huskaris72031231.74%
    thecat72371572.22%
    fat man on a moped72521722.43%
    meldrew6669011792.53%
    Salad68572233.15%
    Covered End68402403.39%
    RalphMilne68322483.50%
    Daarrrzzettbum73332533.57%
    Rob7Lee67892914.11%
    Gary Poole67703104.38%
    bobmunro74043244.58%
    CharltonKerry67503304.66%
    HardyAddick67503304.66%
    MrOneLung74743945.56%
    blackpool7266754055.72%
    No.1 in South London6558.39521.617.37%
    IdleHans76345547.82%
    Thread Killer64306509.18%
    oohaahmortimer622285812.12%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 5750133018.79%
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  • guinnessaddick
    guinnessaddick Posts: 28,616
    edited June 2021
    Rob7Lee said:
    On todays opening price of 7080, TellMc32 spot on if it were today!

    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    @TelMc32708000.00%
    Exiledin Manchester7106260.37%
    PragueAddick7110300.42%
    LargeAddick7047330.47%
    valleynick667121410.58%
    golfaddick7132520.73%
    Bangkokaddick7025550.78%
    gunnessaddick7021590.83%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub7150700.99%
    Morboe6990.589.51.26%
    StrikerFirmani69801001.41%
    Fortune 82nd Minute69631171.65%
    Huskaris72031231.74%
    thecat72371572.22%
    fat man on a moped72521722.43%
    meldrew6669011792.53%
    Salad68572233.15%
    Covered End68402403.39%
    RalphMilne68322483.50%
    Daarrrzzettbum73332533.57%
    Rob7Lee67892914.11%
    Gary Poole67703104.38%
    bobmunro74043244.58%
    CharltonKerry67503304.66%
    HardyAddick67503304.66%
    MrOneLung74743945.56%
    blackpool7266754055.72%
    No.1 in South London6558.39521.617.37%
    IdleHans76345547.82%
    Thread Killer64306509.18%
    oohaahmortimer622285812.12%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 5750133018.79%
     Banker
  • LargeAddick
    LargeAddick Posts: 32,559
    edited June 2021
    on P/B's - £25 each for me, the missus, my mum & the mother in law.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    It ain't over til the fat lady sings.... ;)
  • TelMc32
    TelMc32 Posts: 9,046
    guinnessaddick said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    On todays opening price of 7080, TellMc32 spot on if it were today!

    NameLevelVariance% Variance
    @TelMc32708000.00%
    Exiledin Manchester7106260.37%
    PragueAddick7110300.42%
    LargeAddick7047330.47%
    valleynick667121410.58%
    golfaddick7132520.73%
    Bangkokaddick7025550.78%
    gunnessaddick7021590.83%
    WishIdStayedInThe Pub7150700.99%
    Morboe6990.589.51.26%
    StrikerFirmani69801001.41%
    Fortune 82nd Minute69631171.65%
    Huskaris72031231.74%
    thecat72371572.22%
    fat man on a moped72521722.43%
    meldrew6669011792.53%
    Salad68572233.15%
    Covered End68402403.39%
    RalphMilne68322483.50%
    Daarrrzzettbum73332533.57%
    Rob7Lee67892914.11%
    Gary Poole67703104.38%
    bobmunro74043244.58%
    CharltonKerry67503304.66%
    HardyAddick67503304.66%
    MrOneLung74743945.56%
    blackpool7266754055.72%
    No.1 in South London6558.39521.617.37%
    IdleHans76345547.82%
    Thread Killer64306509.18%
    oohaahmortimer622285812.12%
    Er_Be_Ab_Pl_Wo_Wo_Ch 5750133018.79%
     Banker
    Nicer than what you normally call me G!!!  

    @PragueAddick I ain't a lady, but I can meet the other two criteria!! :)

    Long way to go.  
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    So, looking into pensions and SIPPs. from what i can tell, you get 20% added to what you put into an SIPP - to make up for the income tax you've paid. However, from my ltd company i can only pay into a pension, which would be pre corporation tax. I'm guessing paying into the pension directly from the Ltd company rather than paying dividends and then paying that into the SIPP is more tax efficient? (From what i've read, only I personally can pay into an SIPP).

    Struggling to get my head round either of them to be honest!
  • IdleHans
    IdleHans Posts: 10,961
    kentaddick said:
    So, looking into pensions and SIPPs. from what i can tell, you get 20% added to what you put into an SIPP - to make up for the income tax you've paid. However, from my ltd company i can only pay into a pension, which would be pre corporation tax. I'm guessing paying into the pension directly from the Ltd company rather than paying dividends and then paying that into the SIPP is more tax efficient? (From what i've read, only I personally can pay into an SIPP).

    Struggling to get my head round either of them to be honest!

    I generally hesitate to chip in as there are many far more knowledgeable than me on this kind of thing, but you certainly can have your limited co make a contribution directly to your SIPP, thus getting a CT deductible and not incurring any income tax on yourself. This is subject to limits, but assuming you're doing this in a modest way, they shouldnt trouble you.

    If you do take a dividend you will be subject to income tax on it and of course there is no CT relief, but your SIPP provider can then reclaim income tax relief on the contribution at the basic rate, and if you are a higher rate tax payer you will get a deduction against income tax on the next tax band.

    I stand to be corrected by the wise heads, but this is an outline of the general position as i understand it.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
  • cafcpolo
    cafcpolo Posts: 3,811
    kentaddick said:
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
    Yep, company to pension is pre corp tax so more efficient than paying divs and then paying in yourself.
  • kentaddick
    kentaddick Posts: 18,729
    cafcpolo said:
    kentaddick said:
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
    Yep, company to pension is pre corp tax so more efficient than paying divs and then paying in yourself.
    sexy, now wheres the crypto fund? :smiley:
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,594
    kentaddick said:
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
    Vanguard is OK but restricted to their own funds from memory.

    I use interactive investor (flat fee which is good if you have a decent amount saved) and also still have a bit left in fidelity.
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  • golfaddick
    golfaddick Posts: 33,624
    Do not use Vanguard. There are many other "platforms" to choose from which have access to far more funds that are on Vanguard. Should be able to get the platform charge for less than 0.4% and then it's up to you what you invest in. However, crypto's aren't available. If you want my advice......then you need to pay 😄. 
  • hoof_it_up_to_benty
    hoof_it_up_to_benty Posts: 22,441
    https://www.businessweekly.co.uk/news/local-sharewatch/sareum-holdings-plc-buoyed-white-knight’s-£900k-investment

    Sareum are doing some interesting research and I've invested in them on AIM. Their work is related to cancer and covid treatment - early days but shares have moved up steadily.
  • WishIdStayedinthePub
    WishIdStayedinthePub Posts: 648
    kentaddick said:
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
    I've just been through some research on brokers, as I'm moving away from HL after 30 years.

    For ISAs I went with IG - they have direct market access, which is already saving me money, better transaction fees and rebates and overall, FX rates are slightly better than HL for, say, US shares.  The transfer process has been excruciating - something needs to be done about that.

    For the SIPPs, I'm considering Interactive Brokers as they have much cheaper FX, direct market access, much broader product ranges and professional level interfaces.  The complication is that you have to set up a separate administrator and all the ones I spoke to are inundated at the moment and complaining about the same delays on transfer as incumbents slow the process down.  I did buy shares on one of those administrators though (STM) and made a quick turn!
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,847
    Feel like these businesses have already become my entire life and only one of them has launched.

    Absolutely loving it, hopefully going live on the second business (which is a business whereas the Peep show one is a hobby) later today. 
  • northstandsteve
    northstandsteve Posts: 14,328
    what is the second one ?
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    WishIdStayedinthePub said:
    kentaddick said:
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
    I've just been through some research on brokers, as I'm moving away from HL after 30 years.

    For ISAs I went with IG - they have direct market access, which is already saving me money, better transaction fees and rebates and overall, FX rates are slightly better than HL for, say, US shares.  The transfer process has been excruciating - something needs to be done about that.

    For the SIPPs, I'm considering Interactive Brokers as they have much cheaper FX, direct market access, much broader product ranges and professional level interfaces.  The complication is that you have to set up a separate administrator and all the ones I spoke to are inundated at the moment and complaining about the same delays on transfer as incumbents slow the process down.  I did buy shares on one of those administrators though (STM) and made a quick turn!
    It certainly does. Cost me significant money when I moved to H-L. Just before the referendum. Assumed it would be done and dusted before the vote. Took them 4 weeks, in which time of course there was a market surge.

    So I guess the learning for SIPP newbies is, choose carefully as you don't want to be shifting again too soon.
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,594
    Between Fidelity, HSBC and ii they messed up my transfer to varying degrees. But it actually helped due to timing where the market went down when I was out, but could have also worked the opposite way!

    One thing that surprised me was the transfers from Fidelity were all by way of a cheque, not helpful at the beginning of a national lockdown and offices closed! Thought it was all electronic these days.

    The lions share of mine is now with ii. Really pleased with them from a cost perspective although still find it amazing I have to work out myself what my total return is (they only show you growth on current investments, not past sales of profit/loss)
  • Huskaris
    Huskaris Posts: 9,847
    northstandsteve said:
    what is the second one ?
    Literally just took over ownership.

    It is, bizarrely, a lash lift company hahah

    https://barelash.com/
  • WishIdStayedinthePub
    WishIdStayedinthePub Posts: 648
    PragueAddick said:
    WishIdStayedinthePub said:
    kentaddick said:
    Just read I can contribute from my ltd company to an SIPP pre tax! Happy days. Anyone anyone recommend? I’m leaning towards vanguard, would rather have a stocks and shares isa somewhere else to play the market for now. 
    I've just been through some research on brokers, as I'm moving away from HL after 30 years.

    For ISAs I went with IG - they have direct market access, which is already saving me money, better transaction fees and rebates and overall, FX rates are slightly better than HL for, say, US shares.  The transfer process has been excruciating - something needs to be done about that.

    For the SIPPs, I'm considering Interactive Brokers as they have much cheaper FX, direct market access, much broader product ranges and professional level interfaces.  The complication is that you have to set up a separate administrator and all the ones I spoke to are inundated at the moment and complaining about the same delays on transfer as incumbents slow the process down.  I did buy shares on one of those administrators though (STM) and made a quick turn!
    It certainly does. Cost me significant money when I moved to H-L. Just before the referendum. Assumed it would be done and dusted before the vote. Took them 4 weeks, in which time of course there was a market surge.

    So I guess the learning for SIPP newbies is, choose carefully as you don't want to be shifting again too soon.
    I was advised by the administrator - sell all your shares and transfer as cash, much quicker.  

    I asked if they were prepared to fund the 2% round trip dealing costs (with commission, spreads, fx, stamp duty, could be even higher ...) .... funnily enough not.  So the choice is - pay 2%+ or wait 2-3 months.  That is piss poor in the electronic age.
  • WishIdStayedinthePub
    WishIdStayedinthePub Posts: 648
    Huskaris said:
    northstandsteve said:
    what is the second one ?
    Literally just took over ownership.

    It is, bizarrely, a lash lift company hahah

    https://barelash.com/
    Good luck with that.

    Where are you sourcing these deals from?

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