Moved into Cherry Orchard a few months ago and seems fine there, really. Few scruffs kicking about, and the odd chav ragging around on a moped - but that's it so far.
Having watched the two recent progs which featured gang crime in the likes of Lewisham, Grove Park, Charlton, Catford and Peckham I am not surprised to learn of these killings.
The cycle is there for all to see - no father figures apart from the leaders of these gangs, kids as young as 10 or 11 being integrated as "carriers" of drugs, knives or guns and who, if they survive long enough become the "leaders" of tomorrow - and so it goes on. Banned from schools and with their mothers unable to control their children, there is almost an "acceptance", in many cases, that this is their kids' way of life.
The really sad thing is that so many of these actually do want to get out. But they still feel obliged to not only carry knives for their own self defense but, in many cases, to "right" the killing of a fellow gang member. As one lad put it - "most of our friends are gone. It's probably only a matte of time before we are too". And some four weeks ago he was murdered too.
Having watched the two recent progs which featured gang crime in the likes of Lewisham, Grove Park, Charlton, Catford and Peckham I am not surprised to learn of these killings.
The cycle is there for all to see - no father figures apart from the leaders of these gangs, kids as young as 10 or 11 being integrated as "carriers" of drugs, knives or guns and who, if they survive long enough become the "leaders" of tomorrow - and so it goes on. Banned from schools and with their mothers unable to control their children, there is almost an "acceptance", in many cases, that this is their kids' way of life.
The really sad thing is that so many of these actually do want to get out. But they still feel obliged to not only carry knives for their own self defense but, in many cases, to "right" the killing of a fellow gang member. As one lad put it - "most of our friends are gone. It's probably only a matte of time before we are too". And some four weeks ago he was murdered too.
RIP
Watched the same prog - as it was on Channel 5 I expected it to be lacking credibility and found myself questioning how much the youths on it were playing to the camera. However, it was only at the end of the show when they did a summary and mentioned that two of the 16 year olds who'd been interviewed had been stabbed to death since the filming ended that you realised how "real" it actually was.
The tragedy is that whenever these "gangsters" are interviewed anonymously and away from their peers, almost without exception they want to walk away from it all but can't because of peer pressure and fear of reprisal.
I've no idea what can be done to break the cycle for these people.
It's due massively to the single parent absent father that is so prevalent in the communities where a gang culture is present. Perhaps that is where intervention needs to be made ?
The tragedy is that whenever these "gangsters" are interviewed anonymously and away from their peers, almost without exception they want to walk away from it all but can't because of peer pressure and fear of reprisal.
I've no idea what can be done to break the cycle for these people.
It's due massively to the single parent absent father that is so prevalent in the communities where a gang culture is present. Perhaps that is where intervention needs to be made?
That could be a very, very ill informed opinion.
The numbers I am certain are somewhat affected by this, but it is more so down to the loose morals and complete lack of respect for laws and the lives of other people.
It'd take more than having a father present to change this. The actual fathers have likely grown up in gangs and pass down their beliefs, morals and attitudes to their children.
What I've just responded with could also be ill informed though...
I think the issue truly arises from pack mentality which develops when you force large groups of animals or people to live in a congested areas such as blocks of flats in which you force those that are council housed to live in.
This will force groups to split off and create an 'us and them' environment which splits again and a primitive mentality will take over.
That is probably also ill informed, but is more how I really see the cause as this is what I learned at college, when a friend who lived in council estate block of flats in Croydon described how things were.
Don't think it can be just put down to single parents. doesnt the glorifying of the so called gangster life and it being an easy way to make money without going down a channel of work or college have anything to do with it.
The tragedy is that whenever these "gangsters" are interviewed anonymously and away from their peers, almost without exception they want to walk away from it all but can't because of peer pressure and fear of reprisal.
I've no idea what can be done to break the cycle for these people.
It's due massively to the single parent absent father that is so prevalent in the communities where a gang culture is present. Perhaps that is where intervention needs to be made?
That could be a very, very ill informed opinion.
The numbers I am certain are somewhat affected by this, but it is more so down to the loose morals and complete lack of respect for laws and the lives of other people.
It'd take more than having a father present to change this. The actual fathers have likely grown up in gangs and pass down their beliefs, morals and attitudes to their children.
What I've just responded with could also be ill informed though...
I think the issue truly arises from pack mentality which develops when you force large groups of animals or people to live in a congested areas such as blocks of flats in which you force those that are council housed to live in.
This will force groups to split off and create an 'us and them' environment which splits again and a primitive mentality will take over.
That is probably also ill informed, but is more how I really see the cause as this is what I learned at college, when a friend who lived in council estate block of flats in Croydon described how things were.
Don't think it can be just put down to single parents. doesnt the glorifying of the so called gangster life and it being an easy way to make money without going down a channel of work or college have anything to do with it.
It is a combination of culture, circumstance and the lack of a father figure - "culture" in that it is an accepted way of life in these areas, "circumstance" in that it is more profitable for a lot of these kids to deal drugs than learn at school and "lack of a father figure" to set an example. In the two episodes we saw numerous mothers of both victims and gang members but not a single father. These boys have nothing else to fill their time. And the presence of elders in these gangs makes them feel that they have some "direction" and "purpose" in life are their guiding lights.
As one mother put it (words to the effect anyway) "I do check the drawers for my knives as I am not so naive to think that he won't be going out with one of them". But she is helpless to stop it and almost accepting of the fact that one day she will be the one on the receiving end of that knock on the door from the police.
there's always a way out of things depends on how hard you want to fight to get out of it. many kids have come from gang riddled estates and made a decent being of themselves. im from a single parent background working class yet i know its wrong to put a knife in somones chest.
Why does society look for something or someone to blame other than the inviduals . As someone that lost their father as an 6 year old and lived rough as a teenager, I made some horrendous decisions as a young man and some might say I'm still making them. But no else is responsible for my decisions at that time and now other than me.
there's always a way out of things depends on how hard you want to fight to get out of it. many kids have come from gang riddled estates and made a decent being of themselves. im from a single parent background working class yet i know its wrong to put a knife in somones chest.
Absolutely.
I'm also from a single parent working class background. 3 different dad's to me, my brother and my sister. Lost my mum at 13, Bro and sis already had moved out... I moved in with a mates family, his mum became my guardian, I smoked weed daily, dealt some drugs for a couple of weeks then realised I had 2 choices stay involved in drugs etc, stay where I was with irresponsible guardian or move to a new town and start fresh with a relative...
The tragedy is that whenever these "gangsters" are interviewed anonymously and away from their peers, almost without exception they want to walk away from it all but can't because of peer pressure and fear of reprisal.
I've no idea what can be done to break the cycle for these people.
It's due massively to the single parent absent father that is so prevalent in the communities where a gang culture is present. Perhaps that is where intervention needs to be made?
That could be a very, very ill informed opinion.
The numbers I am certain are somewhat affected by this, but it is more so down to the loose morals and complete lack of respect for laws and the lives of other people.
It'd take more than having a father present to change this. The actual fathers have likely grown up in gangs and pass down their beliefs, morals and attitudes to their children.
What I've just responded with could also be ill informed though...
I think the issue truly arises from pack mentality which develops when you force large groups of animals or people to live in a congested areas such as blocks of flats in which you force those that are council housed to live in.
This will force groups to split off and create an 'us and them' environment which splits again and a primitive mentality will take over.
That is probably also ill informed, but is more how I really see the cause as this is what I learned at college, when a friend who lived in council estate block of flats in Croydon described how things were.
It's not to do with flats it's more to do with problem families being lumped together. In a lot of countries living in flats is the norm - depends on who is living in them.
there's always a way out of things depends on how hard you want to fight to get out of it. many kids have come from gang riddled estates and made a decent being of themselves. im from a single parent background working class yet i know its wrong to put a knife in somones chest.
Absolutely.
I'm also from a single parent working class background. 3 different dad's to me, my brother and my sister. Lost my mum at 13, Bro and sis already had moved out... I moved in with a mates family, his mum became my guardian, I smoked weed daily, dealt some drugs for a couple of weeks then realised I had 2 choices stay involved in drugs etc, stay where I was with irresponsible guardian or move to a new town and start fresh with a relative...
It is difficult for me and my fellow bredwins to get outta the ghetto. Da government plants guns within our streets and then five O turn up and hit us all with charges n that and then we cant get jobs.
It is difficult for me and my fellow bredwins to get outta the ghetto. Da government plants guns within our streets and then five O turn up and hit us all with charges n that and then we cant get jobs.
It is difficult for me and my fellow bredwins to get outta the ghetto. Da government plants guns within our streets and then five O turn up and hit us all with charges n that and then we cant get jobs.
Anyway, despite the forces of poverty and racial segregation, there's plenty of cultural resistance. We've just got to hope Noel Clarke keeps making movies and Skepta/JME keep making albums
Anyway, despite the forces of poverty and racial segregation, there's plenty of cultural resistance. We've just got to hope Noel Clarke keeps making movies and Skepta/JME keep making albums
Comments
Cherry orchard boys used to be a bit of a handful.
The cycle is there for all to see - no father figures apart from the leaders of these gangs, kids as young as 10 or 11 being integrated as "carriers" of drugs, knives or guns and who, if they survive long enough become the "leaders" of tomorrow - and so it goes on. Banned from schools and with their mothers unable to control their children, there is almost an "acceptance", in many cases, that this is their kids' way of life.
The really sad thing is that so many of these actually do want to get out. But they still feel obliged to not only carry knives for their own self defense but, in many cases, to "right" the killing of a fellow gang member. As one lad put it - "most of our friends are gone. It's probably only a matte of time before we are too". And some four weeks ago he was murdered too.
RIP
I've no idea what can be done to break the cycle for these people.
It's due massively to the single parent absent father that is so prevalent in the communities where a gang culture is present. Perhaps that is where intervention needs to be made ?
The numbers I am certain are somewhat affected by this, but it is more so down to the loose morals and complete lack of respect for laws and the lives of other people.
It'd take more than having a father present to change this. The actual fathers have likely grown up in gangs and pass down their beliefs, morals and attitudes to their children.
What I've just responded with could also be ill informed though...
I think the issue truly arises from pack mentality which develops when you force large groups of animals or people to live in a congested areas such as blocks of flats in which you force those that are council housed to live in.
This will force groups to split off and create an 'us and them' environment which splits again and a primitive mentality will take over.
That is probably also ill informed, but is more how I really see the cause as this is what I learned at college, when a friend who lived in council estate block of flats in Croydon described how things were.
As one mother put it (words to the effect anyway) "I do check the drawers for my knives as I am not so naive to think that he won't be going out with one of them". But she is helpless to stop it and almost accepting of the fact that one day she will be the one on the receiving end of that knock on the door from the police.
I'm also from a single parent working class background. 3 different dad's to me, my brother and my sister. Lost my mum at 13, Bro and sis already had moved out... I moved in with a mates family, his mum became my guardian, I smoked weed daily, dealt some drugs for a couple of weeks then realised I had 2 choices stay involved in drugs etc, stay where I was with irresponsible guardian or move to a new town and start fresh with a relative...
I made the right choice.
We have a very fractured society.....
I'll pop round for that 20 bag later!