Rashford MUST start. Vardy too. Need to actually move defences about! Get rid of Sturridge and Walcott - their decision making at the highest level is truly appalling.
Get rid of the fa, Southgate, boothroyd, Rooney Walcot sturidge henderson, cahill etc get rid of them all get new ideas new players new mgmt it's rotten it's like watching a boothroyd vs Southgate league match shit hoof defend and run its shit shit shit shit shit
For all the money they have, the FA should be thinking big, before we descend into mediocrity, with the likes of Southgate, Allardyce and Boothroyd. Go for Marco Van Basten and Frank RIjkaard. Both have experience of managing Holland, Ajax and Barcelona, and are available. We are settling for a failed Middlesbrough manager who has been hiding away at the FA for the past six years. If he was any good, a Premier League or Championship side would have employed him.
Add Gerrard and/or Lampard to the mix, to learn how to coach an international team. Get some recent ex-players in, who the current players would look up to, characters with a bit of personality. A coaching team of Van Basten, RIjkaard and Gerrard would send out the message that we mean business. What player wouldn't look forward to training sessions and playing for them? You never know, we might start developing a style of play other than sideways-backwards-lose the ball.
Lothar Matthaus is another candidate. I don't think he would have any nonsense. Ruud Gullitt?
If we are going to stick with English coaches, we've had it, because the better ones, such as Eddie Howe are not going to give up their jobs in club football.
With non-footballing administrators in charge at the FA, I don't hold out much hope they will make any forward thinking footballing decision. The FA need to get their collective fingers out.
What a remarkable game displaying all that is good in the professional game. Players playing to their full potential, a coach in Southgate who has clearly mastered the nuances of small changes in formation to combat the opposition, with inciteful substitutions. A joy to watch.
I agree with what Southgate said post-match, especially about Hart being best when he's calm. Lingard was shocking (genuinely thought he'd gone off half an hour before he had a long ranger) but at least Southgate went with the logic of playing a winger on the wing.
Sturridge should've got the hook before the hour mark but beyond that, it's crazy to think any single manager can make this collection of spoilt brats perform any better.
You my friend have hit the nail directly on the head!!!
It is irrelevant whom the manager is, this group of players simply aren't very good.
We can't pass the ball under pressure, we can't retain possession, we don't have players whom can run at defenders and we don't have players that can pick a pass through a crowded defence/midfield.
Consequently as Tutt Tutt says above we spend most of the time shifting the ball from side to side, without really going anywhere before a poor first touch or shoddy pass surrenders possession.
That is three consecutive managers whom have produced exactly the same performance level from the same group of players - piss poor.
That team is so bad would get ripped apart by a half decent team. Absoloutely no balance, Sturridge not a lone striker, Walcott is hopeless and the team far to weak in defence.
Southgate has proved in his 2 games that he is not up to it. FA sure to give him the job.
One of the other problems is a lot of these players think they are god's gift to football, but were it not for premier league registration rules around homegrown players, they wouldn't have these massive transfer values and therefore massively inflated wages. Not one of those players are the "star player" for any premier league club... Some of them possibly wouldn't even be registered in premier league teams were they not English.
Get rid of the fa, Southgate, boothroyd, Rooney Walcot sturidge henderson, cahill etc get rid of them all get new ideas new players new mgmt it's rotten it's like watching a boothroyd vs Southgate league match shit hoof defend and run its shit shit shit shit shit
In fairness to Boothroyd, i watched the U21s yesterday and they played some absolutely superb football and won 5-0. Quick passing, one touch, great movement, created loads of chances and some superb finishing, literally everything we would want the senior side to do.
Now add that to the fact the U20s with Lookman have just beaten Holland, Germany and USA this past week, the U19s reached the Euro semis in the summer, we won the u17 euro's a couple of years ago with Gomez in the side, Chelsea also won the UEFA youth champions league 2 years running with a predominantly English side. So all this simply has to point to the fact that it's a mental issue with the senior side.
These players clearly have the talent as kids, and most of them perform very well for their clubs every week, but there's a problem when it comes to the senior side. Is it the manager and his tactics? Maybe. But then we've been terrible at tournaments for years so we can't go blaming Hodgson and Southgate for that. Are the players just not interested? Maybe. They earn so much for their clubs, that they don't care about England. But then German, Spanish and French players aren't exactly poorly paid and they don't have a problem for their countries. Is it the press? Very possibly. It's almost like players become scared when they pull on the shirt as they're worried about getting hammered in the press. The major issue is our pool of players though. We simply don't have enough decent players. Players get caps far too easily, an 18/19 year old these days only needs a couple of decent premier league games and he's in the full squad. We had Rashford making his senior debut after a few games for United before he'd even made his U21 debut!! It's ridiculous. This week Spain U21s had Jose Gaya (valencia's first choice left back), Bellerin, Denis Suarez (played a few games for Barca this season), Asensio (a few games for Real madrid) and Deulofeu in their side. If they were English they'd all be in our full squad. We simply don't have the squad depth so we have to rely on the same old faces who've been failing for years. We also have a problem in that in form players still get overlooked in favour of players who are at big clubs. Why doesn't Drinkwater get a squad place and we instead take Wilshire to the Euro's when he hadn't played 90 minutes all season. Why pick Antonio who is the leagues 2nd top scorer and then play Lingard who's done nothing for united this season? Why pick Vardy, one of the leagues form strikers over the past year or so and then play Sturridge who's probably played 5-6 games in that time. Same old shit, year in year out.
Picked out some snippets from this morning’s press.
Southgate admits he inherited a mess (Get the excuses in early) The game was played on a difficult surface (does that not apply to both teams?) Insists England on track under his stewardship (What?) Very much a working progress (Generic manager speak) Incredibly difficult ten days (Why?) Withdrawals and injury to deal with (And?) Still managed to get 4 points in the two games (including 3 against the mighty Malta)
Had a coaching mentor session with a highly placed and respected Palace and FA coach last weekend. Simply put, he talked about our kids from the age of 11 through to under 19s/20s are consistently up there with the best in Europe, but that we throw them into Senior teams and squads far too early where their game time and development stops and they don't get to continue improving as they play less, in more results driven environments and with less chance to learn correctly and continue developing.
Until that changes he said nothing will improve tangibly in our Senior squads.
English players are generally only made to look good in the premier league by foreigners.
Sturridge - feeds off Coutinho and Firmino Walcott - feeds off Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey Lingaard - don't know how he's starting Alli - has more space in the prem as wanyama and dier protect back 4 and Lamela, Eriksen, Son make in intelligent runs to create the space. The list goes on.
We just don't have enough partnerships in the prem to take onto the England set up.
Nobody seems to know each others game. 11 strangers playing together.
English players are generally only made to look good in the premier league by foreigners.
Sturridge - feeds off Coutinho and Firmino Walcott - feeds off Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey Lingaard - don't know how he's starting Alli - has more space in the prem as wanyama and dier protect back 4 and Lamela, Eriksen, Son make in intelligent runs to create the space. The list goes on.
We just don't have enough partnerships in the prem to take onto the England set up.
Nobody seems to know each others game. 11 strangers playing together.
True but in the Euro's we had Walker, Rose, Dier, Alli and Kane playing who obviously all know each others game and they still played shit
Yea to be fair the spurs players situation was hard to explain. Hangover from their shocking end to the season where they let Arsenal finish above them + burnout. Dier was arguably England's best player in the Euros. Didn't this k Walker or Rose were too bad until the Iceland game. Think its Alli and Kane who really struggled.
Had a coaching mentor session with a highly placed and respected Palace and FA coach last weekend. Simply put, he talked about our kids from the age of 11 through to under 19s/20s are consistently up there with the best in Europe, but that we throw them into Senior teams and squads far too early where their game time and development stops and they don't get to continue improving as they play less, in more results driven environments and with less chance to learn correctly and continue developing.
Until that changes he said nothing will improve tangibly in our Senior squads.
I hear what you are saying but consider this that Ronaldo and Messi, almost certainly the best two players in the world, made their first team debuts at 17.
I believe it is the nature of the English game - fast, physical, combative, that has far more effect on youngsters breaking into the first team squads than their age.
The coaches are also preparing the kids for that environment so delaying their progression to first teams is of little import - when the time comes they still have to play in the same environment that is English football. The style played in Portugal and Spain (for Ronaldo and Messi) allows for individual skill to flourish at any age.
Yea to be fair the spurs players situation was hard to explain. Hangover from their shocking end to the season where they let Arsenal finish above them + burnout. Dier was arguably England's best player in the Euros. Didn't this k Walker or Rose were too bad until the Iceland game. Think its Alli and Kane who really struggled.
Stones has the qualities to be one of the best centre backs in the world, but at the moment he makes too many mistakes and playing him is a big risk. I like Lingard but it was clear he wasn't really having an impact and should have come off sooner. I'd have kept Alli onand swapped Lingard for Rooney. Would also have given Vardy a go. Hart had a world class game - the great save he made was a good as any you will see. Very good point in the end as we deserved to lose.
should of been a win on paper but watching it it was a very lucky point, joe hart did deliver last night but at the euros was poor, a point could be the point that wins the group.
English players are generally only made to look good in the premier league by foreigners.
Sturridge - feeds off Coutinho and Firmino Walcott - feeds off Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey Lingaard - don't know how he's starting Alli - has more space in the prem as wanyama and dier protect back 4 and Lamela, Eriksen, Son make in intelligent runs to create the space. The list goes on.
We just don't have enough partnerships in the prem to take onto the England set up.
Nobody seems to know each others game. 11 strangers playing together.
True but in the Euro's we had Walker, Rose, Dier, Alli and Kane playing who obviously all know each others game and they still played shit
We discussed this at length at the time of the Iceland debacle but Spurs use a 4-2-3-1 system usually but for some reason Hodgson used the old fashioned 4-3-3 against Iceland in the Euro's. The main difference between Dier and Alli playing for England and Spurs in simple. Moussa Dembele. Chris mentions Wanyama above which is partly true for about 2 games this season but Spurs' success last year was in the main down to Dembele. The bloke is an absolute beast. He mops up, he keeps the ball ticking over, everything goes through him. Spurs will always play so much better with him in the side. England just dont have anyone capable of playing the same way. You could say the same for Walker and Rose. You've got one of the best centre-back partnerships in Europe with Alderweireld and Vertonghen with Dier and Dembele mopping up in front of them which gives them all the freedom in the world to bomb forward. I didnt see the game last night but I'm assuming Cahill played. Cahill and any other with Henderson. Just not the same is it?
English players are generally only made to look good in the premier league by foreigners.
Sturridge - feeds off Coutinho and Firmino Walcott - feeds off Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey Lingaard - don't know how he's starting Alli - has more space in the prem as wanyama and dier protect back 4 and Lamela, Eriksen, Son make in intelligent runs to create the space. The list goes on.
We just don't have enough partnerships in the prem to take onto the England set up.
Nobody seems to know each others game. 11 strangers playing together.
True but in the Euro's we had Walker, Rose, Dier, Alli and Kane playing who obviously all know each others game and they still played shit
We discussed this at length at the time of the Iceland debacle but Spurs use a 4-2-3-1 system usually but for some reason Hodgson used the old fashioned 4-3-3 against Iceland in the Euro's. The main difference between Dier and Alli playing for England and Spurs in simple. Moussa Dembele. Chris mentions Wanyama above which is partly true for about 2 games this season but Spurs' success last year was in the main down to Dembele. The bloke is an absolute beast. He mops up, he keeps the ball ticking over, everything goes through him. Spurs will always play so much better with him in the side. England just dont have anyone capable of playing the same way. You could say the same for Walker and Rose. You've got one of the best centre-back partnerships in Europe with Alderweireld and Vertonghen with Dier and Dembele mopping up in front of them which gives them all the freedom in the world to bomb forward. I didnt see the game last night but I'm assuming Cahill played. Cahill and any other with Henderson. Just not the same is it?
Do Spurs play with out-an-out wingers? Maybe another reason that the fullbacks didn't bomb forward is because we were playing with wingers with no overlaps
English players are generally only made to look good in the premier league by foreigners.
Sturridge - feeds off Coutinho and Firmino Walcott - feeds off Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey Lingaard - don't know how he's starting Alli - has more space in the prem as wanyama and dier protect back 4 and Lamela, Eriksen, Son make in intelligent runs to create the space. The list goes on.
We just don't have enough partnerships in the prem to take onto the England set up.
Nobody seems to know each others game. 11 strangers playing together.
True but in the Euro's we had Walker, Rose, Dier, Alli and Kane playing who obviously all know each others game and they still played shit
We discussed this at length at the time of the Iceland debacle but Spurs use a 4-2-3-1 system usually but for some reason Hodgson used the old fashioned 4-3-3 against Iceland in the Euro's. The main difference between Dier and Alli playing for England and Spurs in simple. Moussa Dembele. Chris mentions Wanyama above which is partly true for about 2 games this season but Spurs' success last year was in the main down to Dembele. The bloke is an absolute beast. He mops up, he keeps the ball ticking over, everything goes through him. Spurs will always play so much better with him in the side. England just dont have anyone capable of playing the same way. You could say the same for Walker and Rose. You've got one of the best centre-back partnerships in Europe with Alderweireld and Vertonghen with Dier and Dembele mopping up in front of them which gives them all the freedom in the world to bomb forward. I didnt see the game last night but I'm assuming Cahill played. Cahill and any other with Henderson. Just not the same is it?
Do Spurs play with out-an-out wingers? Maybe another reason that the fullbacks didn't bomb forward is because we were playing with wingers with no overlaps
Yea to be fair the spurs players situation was hard to explain. Hangover from their shocking end to the season where they let Arsenal finish above them + burnout. Dier was arguably England's best player in the Euros. Didn't this k Walker or Rose were too bad until the Iceland game. Think its Alli and Kane who really struggled.
should of been a win on paper but watching it it was a very lucky point, joe hart did deliver last night but at the euros was poor, a point could be the point that wins the group.
I think gone are the days of 'on paper' we are better etc. I truly believe we are probably equals to the likes of Slovenia these days. we struggle to beat these teams.
should of been a win on paper but watching it it was a very lucky point, joe hart did deliver last night but at the euros was poor, a point could be the point that wins the group.
I think gone are the days of 'on paper' we are better etc. I truly believe we are probably equals to the likes of Slovenia these days. we struggle to beat these teams.
Patently not true. Engalnd will win the group, of that there is little doubt.
It's not far off being true. Scraped a 95th minute winner in Slovakia, only beat Malta 2-0 and were lucky to get a draw in Slovenia. Yes we'll win the group but it's a truly awful group.
Comments
Add Gerrard and/or Lampard to the mix, to learn how to coach an international team. Get some recent ex-players in, who the current players would look up to, characters with a bit of personality. A coaching team of Van Basten, RIjkaard and Gerrard would send out the message that we mean business. What player wouldn't look forward to training sessions and playing for them? You never know, we might start developing a style of play other than sideways-backwards-lose the ball.
Lothar Matthaus is another candidate. I don't think he would have any nonsense. Ruud Gullitt?
If we are going to stick with English coaches, we've had it, because the better ones, such as Eddie Howe are not going to give up their jobs in club football.
With non-footballing administrators in charge at the FA, I don't hold out much hope they will make any forward thinking footballing decision. The FA need to get their collective fingers out.
I need sleep.
Wibble.
It is irrelevant whom the manager is, this group of players simply aren't very good.
We can't pass the ball under pressure, we can't retain possession, we don't have players whom can run at defenders and we don't have players that can pick a pass through a crowded defence/midfield.
Consequently as Tutt Tutt says above we spend most of the time shifting the ball from side to side, without really going anywhere before a poor first touch or shoddy pass surrenders possession.
That is three consecutive managers whom have produced exactly the same performance level from the same group of players - piss poor.
Oh.
Southgate has proved in his 2 games that he is not up to it. FA sure to give him the job.
What I mean is;
Over paid footballers that are very average value.
The inevitable over paid manager will have to get the best out of them.
The expectations will always go beyond what is reality.
That causes many different problems.
No one can do a good job of managing England.
It just turns out that southgate is probably a front runner for bad choices.
Now add that to the fact the U20s with Lookman have just beaten Holland, Germany and USA this past week, the U19s reached the Euro semis in the summer, we won the u17 euro's a couple of years ago with Gomez in the side, Chelsea also won the UEFA youth champions league 2 years running with a predominantly English side. So all this simply has to point to the fact that it's a mental issue with the senior side.
These players clearly have the talent as kids, and most of them perform very well for their clubs every week, but there's a problem when it comes to the senior side.
Is it the manager and his tactics? Maybe. But then we've been terrible at tournaments for years so we can't go blaming Hodgson and Southgate for that.
Are the players just not interested? Maybe. They earn so much for their clubs, that they don't care about England. But then German, Spanish and French players aren't exactly poorly paid and they don't have a problem for their countries.
Is it the press? Very possibly. It's almost like players become scared when they pull on the shirt as they're worried about getting hammered in the press.
The major issue is our pool of players though. We simply don't have enough decent players. Players get caps far too easily, an 18/19 year old these days only needs a couple of decent premier league games and he's in the full squad. We had Rashford making his senior debut after a few games for United before he'd even made his U21 debut!! It's ridiculous. This week Spain U21s had Jose Gaya (valencia's first choice left back), Bellerin, Denis Suarez (played a few games for Barca this season), Asensio (a few games for Real madrid) and Deulofeu in their side. If they were English they'd all be in our full squad. We simply don't have the squad depth so we have to rely on the same old faces who've been failing for years. We also have a problem in that in form players still get overlooked in favour of players who are at big clubs. Why doesn't Drinkwater get a squad place and we instead take Wilshire to the Euro's when he hadn't played 90 minutes all season. Why pick Antonio who is the leagues 2nd top scorer and then play Lingard who's done nothing for united this season? Why pick Vardy, one of the leagues form strikers over the past year or so and then play Sturridge who's probably played 5-6 games in that time. Same old shit, year in year out.
Southgate admits he inherited a mess (Get the excuses in early)
The game was played on a difficult surface (does that not apply to both teams?)
Insists England on track under his stewardship (What?)
Very much a working progress (Generic manager speak)
Incredibly difficult ten days (Why?)
Withdrawals and injury to deal with (And?)
Still managed to get 4 points in the two games (including 3 against the mighty Malta)
Until that changes he said nothing will improve tangibly in our Senior squads.
Sturridge - feeds off Coutinho and Firmino
Walcott - feeds off Ozil, Sanchez, Ramsey
Lingaard - don't know how he's starting
Alli - has more space in the prem as wanyama and dier protect back 4 and Lamela, Eriksen, Son make in intelligent runs to create the space.
The list goes on.
We just don't have enough partnerships in the prem to take onto the England set up.
Nobody seems to know each others game. 11 strangers playing together.
I believe it is the nature of the English game - fast, physical, combative, that has far more effect on youngsters breaking into the first team squads than their age.
The coaches are also preparing the kids for that environment so delaying their progression to first teams is of little import - when the time comes they still have to play in the same environment that is English football. The style played in Portugal and Spain (for Ronaldo and Messi) allows for individual skill to flourish at any age.
If we lose that one, I will have a tattoo..........etc