There’s rivalry and then there’s football morality
I don’t like them I hope they get relegated to whatever league is below us but I want them to exist and I want them to exist in their own manor
I would not wish on any club theirs or even those stripey dirty cnuts
To have their home taken and banished to another area
Football is more than that
But they aren't having their home taken from them, there is land around the ground that the owners want to develop. Millwall are saying they should be allowed to buy the land & develop it & if they can't they may have to relocate. It's absolute bollocks. The land is going to be developed, what it comes down to is who is going to develop it, millwall who don't own it & for some reason think that they have some right to the land or developers acting for the owners / or buying the land to develop. There is absolutely no reason for them to relocate.
You sound very close to the action and seem to know more than most. Very definitive about certain aspects as well.
Tell me, other than sourcing your apparent extensive and unrivalled knowledge from newspapers, how many fingers do you have in the pie to be able to be so black and white about it all?
To say 'There is absolutely no reason' would suggest that you know of all the little nuances of the situation and the financial impact of losing the car park and relocating the community scheme.
Or is it, as I suspect, you just gobbing off about a non-rival who you consider to be more than a non-rival?
Please explain why Millwall would have to relocate if the development goes ahead and what these 'little nuances' are as I genuinely don't understand the financial implications of losing the car park. On the face of it, it does not seem sufficient to make a club unviable.
You also seem to suggest that there is a financial implication to relocating the community centre. I had assumed that it was non profit making and the cost would therefore be a one off? Please enlighten me.
You have been very dismissive of me and others who challenge you, but if you come onto another clubs website claiming your club is in danger of folding you have a responsibility to explain it properly.
You'd be better served asking bob as he seems to know all the ins and outs.
Seems like I'll be dismissive of you again as I've not once claimed that the club is in danger of folding. If you believe I have then kindly show me the evidence. If you cant then I'd kindly ask you not to lie.
And there we have it. The club is not at risk. End of.
More like 'and there we have it, BBW didn't say what I accused him of'.
At least you've acknowledged the fact that you were lieing.
Thanks for that.
Yup, I was lying (see how it is spelt?). You came onto our site to tell us not to sign the petition because all is well and the future is fine.
Yep (sea how it is spelled?). You said I'd said that the club was in danger of folding. I didn't. Had you said that I asked you to sign a petition then I'd have agreed with you.
It's a good trait to be able to admit when you're wrong, so we'll done on that front.
see and well
Proper whoosh.
The see maybe so, but you spelt everything else correct apart from well that was just you being illiterate.
At least when @MillwallFan writes he is respectful that he is on another teams forum.
You on the other hand live up to everyone's expectations of a Millsmall fan
There’s rivalry and then there’s football morality
I don’t like them I hope they get relegated to whatever league is below us but I want them to exist and I want them to exist in their own manor
I would not wish on any club theirs or even those stripey dirty cnuts
To have their home taken and banished to another area
Football is more than that
But they aren't having their home taken from them, there is land around the ground that the owners want to develop. Millwall are saying they should be allowed to buy the land & develop it & if they can't they may have to relocate. It's absolute bollocks. The land is going to be developed, what it comes down to is who is going to develop it, millwall who don't own it & for some reason think that they have some right to the land or developers acting for the owners / or buying the land to develop. There is absolutely no reason for them to relocate.
You sound very close to the action and seem to know more than most. Very definitive about certain aspects as well.
Tell me, other than sourcing your apparent extensive and unrivalled knowledge from newspapers, how many fingers do you have in the pie to be able to be so black and white about it all?
To say 'There is absolutely no reason' would suggest that you know of all the little nuances of the situation and the financial impact of losing the car park and relocating the community scheme.
Or is it, as I suspect, you just gobbing off about a non-rival who you consider to be more than a non-rival?
Please explain why Millwall would have to relocate if the development goes ahead and what these 'little nuances' are as I genuinely don't understand the financial implications of losing the car park. On the face of it, it does not seem sufficient to make a club unviable.
You also seem to suggest that there is a financial implication to relocating the community centre. I had assumed that it was non profit making and the cost would therefore be a one off? Please enlighten me.
You have been very dismissive of me and others who challenge you, but if you come onto another clubs website claiming your club is in danger of folding you have a responsibility to explain it properly.
You'd be better served asking bob as he seems to know all the ins and outs.
Seems like I'll be dismissive of you again as I've not once claimed that the club is in danger of folding. If you believe I have then kindly show me the evidence. If you cant then I'd kindly ask you not to lie.
And there we have it. The club is not at risk. End of.
More like 'and there we have it, BBW didn't say what I accused him of'.
At least you've acknowledged the fact that you were lieing.
Thanks for that.
Yup, I was lying (see how it is spelt?). You came onto our site to tell us not to sign the petition because all is well and the future is fine.
Yep (sea how it is spelled?). You said I'd said that the club was in danger of folding. I didn't. Had you said that I asked you to sign a petition then I'd have agreed with you.
It's a good trait to be able to admit when you're wrong, so we'll done on that front.
see and well
Proper whoosh.
The see maybe so, but you spelt everything else correct apart from well that was just you being illiterate.
At least when @MillwallFan writes he is respectful that he is on another teams forum.
You on the other hand live up to everyone's expectations of a Millsmall fan
Not sure that you're best placed to pull the literacy card, to be honest.
Thankfully you don't speak for everyone so that renders your last sentence completely irrelevant.
There’s rivalry and then there’s football morality
I don’t like them I hope they get relegated to whatever league is below us but I want them to exist and I want them to exist in their own manor
I would not wish on any club theirs or even those stripey dirty cnuts
To have their home taken and banished to another area
Football is more than that
But they aren't having their home taken from them, there is land around the ground that the owners want to develop. Millwall are saying they should be allowed to buy the land & develop it & if they can't they may have to relocate. It's absolute bollocks. The land is going to be developed, what it comes down to is who is going to develop it, millwall who don't own it & for some reason think that they have some right to the land or developers acting for the owners / or buying the land to develop. There is absolutely no reason for them to relocate.
You sound very close to the action and seem to know more than most. Very definitive about certain aspects as well.
Tell me, other than sourcing your apparent extensive and unrivalled knowledge from newspapers, how many fingers do you have in the pie to be able to be so black and white about it all?
To say 'There is absolutely no reason' would suggest that you know of all the little nuances of the situation and the financial impact of losing the car park and relocating the community scheme.
Or is it, as I suspect, you just gobbing off about a non-rival who you consider to be more than a non-rival?
Please explain why Millwall would have to relocate if the development goes ahead and what these 'little nuances' are as I genuinely don't understand the financial implications of losing the car park. On the face of it, it does not seem sufficient to make a club unviable.
You also seem to suggest that there is a financial implication to relocating the community centre. I had assumed that it was non profit making and the cost would therefore be a one off? Please enlighten me.
You have been very dismissive of me and others who challenge you, but if you come onto another clubs website claiming your club is in danger of folding you have a responsibility to explain it properly.
You'd be better served asking bob as he seems to know all the ins and outs.
Seems like I'll be dismissive of you again as I've not once claimed that the club is in danger of folding. If you believe I have then kindly show me the evidence. If you cant then I'd kindly ask you not to lie.
And there we have it. The club is not at risk. End of.
More like 'and there we have it, BBW didn't say what I accused him of'.
At least you've acknowledged the fact that you were lieing.
Thanks for that.
Yup, I was lying (see how it is spelt?). You came onto our site to tell us not to sign the petition because all is well and the future is fine.
Yep (sea how it is spelled?). You said I'd said that the club was in danger of folding. I didn't. Had you said that I asked you to sign a petition then I'd have agreed with you.
It's a good trait to be able to admit when you're wrong, so we'll done on that front.
see and well
Proper whoosh.
The see maybe so, but you spelt everything else correct apart from well that was just you being illiterate.
At least when @MillwallFan writes he is respectful that he is on another teams forum.
You on the other hand live up to everyone's expectations of a Millsmall fan
And unfortunately, you live up to their expectations of a Charlton one.
swings and roundabouts when we played there they were quite openly chanting your going bust in the morning, so if they do get chucked out of that shit tip that's called the den would i really care - no, got a few decent seeming millwall fans on here but the majority as oppose to the minority are tossers.
There’s rivalry and then there’s football morality
I don’t like them I hope they get relegated to whatever league is below us but I want them to exist and I want them to exist in their own manor
I would not wish on any club theirs or even those stripey dirty cnuts
To have their home taken and banished to another area
Football is more than that
But they aren't having their home taken from them, there is land around the ground that the owners want to develop. Millwall are saying they should be allowed to buy the land & develop it & if they can't they may have to relocate. It's absolute bollocks. The land is going to be developed, what it comes down to is who is going to develop it, millwall who don't own it & for some reason think that they have some right to the land or developers acting for the owners / or buying the land to develop. There is absolutely no reason for them to relocate.
You sound very close to the action and seem to know more than most. Very definitive about certain aspects as well.
Tell me, other than sourcing your apparent extensive and unrivalled knowledge from newspapers, how many fingers do you have in the pie to be able to be so black and white about it all?
To say 'There is absolutely no reason' would suggest that you know of all the little nuances of the situation and the financial impact of losing the car park and relocating the community scheme.
Or is it, as I suspect, you just gobbing off about a non-rival who you consider to be more than a non-rival?
Please explain why Millwall would have to relocate if the development goes ahead and what these 'little nuances' are as I genuinely don't understand the financial implications of losing the car park. On the face of it, it does not seem sufficient to make a club unviable.
You also seem to suggest that there is a financial implication to relocating the community centre. I had assumed that it was non profit making and the cost would therefore be a one off? Please enlighten me.
You have been very dismissive of me and others who challenge you, but if you come onto another clubs website claiming your club is in danger of folding you have a responsibility to explain it properly.
You'd be better served asking bob as he seems to know all the ins and outs.
Seems like I'll be dismissive of you again as I've not once claimed that the club is in danger of folding. If you believe I have then kindly show me the evidence. If you cant then I'd kindly ask you not to lie.
And there we have it. The club is not at risk. End of.
More like 'and there we have it, BBW didn't say what I accused him of'.
At least you've acknowledged the fact that you were lieing.
Thanks for that.
Yup, I was lying (see how it is spelt?). You came onto our site to tell us not to sign the petition because all is well and the future is fine.
Yep (sea how it is spelled?). You said I'd said that the club was in danger of folding. I didn't. Had you said that I asked you to sign a petition then I'd have agreed with you.
It's a good trait to be able to admit when you're wrong, so we'll done on that front.
see and well
Proper whoosh.
The see maybe so, but you spelt everything else correct apart from well that was just you being illiterate.
At least when @MillwallFan writes he is respectful that he is on another teams forum.
You on the other hand live up to everyone's expectations of a Millsmall fan
And unfortunately, you live up to their expectations of a Charlton one.
There’s rivalry and then there’s football morality
I don’t like them I hope they get relegated to whatever league is below us but I want them to exist and I want them to exist in their own manor
I would not wish on any club theirs or even those stripey dirty cnuts
To have their home taken and banished to another area
Football is more than that
But they aren't having their home taken from them, there is land around the ground that the owners want to develop. Millwall are saying they should be allowed to buy the land & develop it & if they can't they may have to relocate. It's absolute bollocks. The land is going to be developed, what it comes down to is who is going to develop it, millwall who don't own it & for some reason think that they have some right to the land or developers acting for the owners / or buying the land to develop. There is absolutely no reason for them to relocate.
You sound very close to the action and seem to know more than most. Very definitive about certain aspects as well.
Tell me, other than sourcing your apparent extensive and unrivalled knowledge from newspapers, how many fingers do you have in the pie to be able to be so black and white about it all?
To say 'There is absolutely no reason' would suggest that you know of all the little nuances of the situation and the financial impact of losing the car park and relocating the community scheme.
Or is it, as I suspect, you just gobbing off about a non-rival who you consider to be more than a non-rival?
Please explain why Millwall would have to relocate if the development goes ahead and what these 'little nuances' are as I genuinely don't understand the financial implications of losing the car park. On the face of it, it does not seem sufficient to make a club unviable.
You also seem to suggest that there is a financial implication to relocating the community centre. I had assumed that it was non profit making and the cost would therefore be a one off? Please enlighten me.
You have been very dismissive of me and others who challenge you, but if you come onto another clubs website claiming your club is in danger of folding you have a responsibility to explain it properly.
You'd be better served asking bob as he seems to know all the ins and outs.
Seems like I'll be dismissive of you again as I've not once claimed that the club is in danger of folding. If you believe I have then kindly show me the evidence. If you cant then I'd kindly ask you not to lie.
And there we have it. The club is not at risk. End of.
More like 'and there we have it, BBW didn't say what I accused him of'.
At least you've acknowledged the fact that you were lieing.
Thanks for that.
Yup, I was lying (see how it is spelt?). You came onto our site to tell us not to sign the petition because all is well and the future is fine.
Yep (sea how it is spelled?). You said I'd said that the club was in danger of folding. I didn't. Had you said that I asked you to sign a petition then I'd have agreed with you.
It's a good trait to be able to admit when you're wrong, so we'll done on that front.
see and well
Proper whoosh.
The see maybe so, but you spelt everything else correct apart from well that was just you being illiterate.
At least when @MillwallFan writes he is respectful that he is on another teams forum.
You on the other hand live up to everyone's expectations of a Millsmall fan
And unfortunately, you live up to their expectations of a Charlton one.
Never train spotted in my life
You should try it, it's the highlight of my weekend...
I love our tamed Spanners on here as much as anyone but isn't this thread become very CL all of a sudden? By that I mean "ner ner ner ner ner!".
Millwall fans are obviously gutted that they cannot use something that they do not own to make bundles of loverly cash... something that as we know comes naturally to them on any South East London market stall or darn the pub!
To be honest I’m not very good at explaining how this would screw us over and what the legalities are, so have a look at the link, does a better job of explaining it than I ever could...
Basically the main threat for us is, if we are totally hemmed in as a ground, and lose our car park and control of the immediate surrounding streets, we wouldn’t be able to operate as a league club. We need control over access of coaches, away fan coaches etc. If we didn't the police could recall our license to stage events. The car park is more important than you think!
Thank you Millwallfan, I under the position a little better now.
I think as supporters you have a difficult task in getting wider support as the club is fighting to be a part of the regeneration and reap the dividends; whereas in truth, they do not have to be involved in the regeneration: they need to secure areas around the ground to ensure they can still operate as a football club.
Perversely, at this moment in time the Club itself will have no interest in solving the threats that are detailed in their newsletter as this is their best chance of generating interest in the story and mobilising their supporters to put on the political pressure .
I suspect that like most supporters your main concern is safeguarding your club. Are supporters doing anything to plough the middle ground and seeking agreements to achieve this?
I would support any such group and I suspect so would many others. It would be a honest fight and I would think by now the council door maybe a little ajar and up for a compromise. We have quite a few experts on how to twist a Council's arms!
Unfortunately I would not support the Millwall plan as I think it is inferior. There is also a little bit inside of me that would be a little unchuffed if I had helped to make you financially secure!
I've just read the document and I'm guessing that it was written a while ago as it talks about welcoming the inquiry, which I assume has just been released.
The document sounds very one sided, which is to be expected and not unacceptable, but there is little in there that makes me think that the football club have been harshly treated. The CPO has been used as the land is thought to be needed for large scale regeneration which is what CPOs are for. It gives the Local Authority the ability to acquire assets that it believes can be used for the greater good of the community even if it is to the detriment of a limited few.
I completely understand why Millwall would want a slice of the money and the mention of financial security and non football income, as desirable as that might be, comes up more than once but is not the responsibility of the Local Authority. It also could be viewed as 'State Aid' rather like the Olympic Stadium was for West Ham. Sure, if Charlton were to be given assets, that are currently in public ownership, that would make it able to compete better with other cubs that are not getting the same 'hand outs', then I would be more than happy, but it wouldn't make it fair and it wouldn't make it right!
It seems that the only genuine argument is that the club doesn't trust the Local Authority to protect it's ability to continue to hold a safety certificate for the New Den. It would seem that the football club believe that the only people that are able to do so are those associated with Millwall. Not only do I think that the Council probably employ more planning experts than the club but I can't see that the Council would (nor that the local residents or fans would) allow something to be developed that would make the New Den obsolete. In any event there is no justification in giving the football club large chunks of land just in case the Council fail to honour their promises.
I don't think there is any deliberate action to penalise Millwall Football Club. I guess that this route has been taken because those making the decisions stand to benefit from it, financially. Even though that might, well, be wrong I don't think it affects Millwall's rights to the money made from the development. I also, with no evidence, assume that if there were a fair bidding process it is entirely possible that neither Millwall nor Renewal would win the bids. It looks clear to me that something has been done, quietly, to add significant value that can be shared with people that, shall we say, will do well out of it. Rumours of former Council members and/or employees being associated with Renewal do make it look like there is something underhand being done but, in reality, if more money could be raised, it should be going to the Council to be spent on public services for the local residents, not be given to a football club that employees footballers earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.
I suspect that if the development were to make the New Den struggle for a safety certificate that would be the time to protest. Sadly, for Millwall, I see no good reason for them to be given any control over the land, and certainly no financial rewards from it.
There are plenty of football grounds where coaches have to drop their passengers off a walk away from the ground. That shouldn’t be an issue at all unless the pigeons are coming home to roost in as much as the police won’t trust your fans not to ambush and beat the bejesus out of them.
AND the burning question is... IF all this development is to actually come to fruition, has provision been made to move the largest Museum of used tyres in western Europe?
i wouldn't worry too much about being hemmed in millwall fan - i'm pretty sure you won't be at that ground in a few years time - far less desirable sites have been developed for residential and its only a matter of time - i actually think in the long term a move would benefit millwall anyway as most millwall fans have moved out - they've sought asylum in the suburbs and those that remain will be turfed out for the second wave of immigration - gentrification.
i wouldn't worry too much about being hemmed in millwall fan - i'm pretty sure you won't be at that ground in a few years time - far less desirable sites have been developed for residential and its only a matter of time - i actually think in the long term a move would benefit millwall anyway as most millwall fans have moved out - they've sought asylum in the suburbs and those that remain will be turfed out for the second wave of immigration - gentrification.
There’s rivalry and then there’s football morality
I don’t like them I hope they get relegated to whatever league is below us but I want them to exist and I want them to exist in their own manor
I would not wish on any club theirs or even those stripey dirty cnuts
To have their home taken and banished to another area
Football is more than that
But they aren't having their home taken from them, there is land around the ground that the owners want to develop. Millwall are saying they should be allowed to buy the land & develop it & if they can't they may have to relocate. It's absolute bollocks. The land is going to be developed, what it comes down to is who is going to develop it, millwall who don't own it & for some reason think that they have some right to the land or developers acting for the owners / or buying the land to develop. There is absolutely no reason for them to relocate.
You sound very close to the action and seem to know more than most. Very definitive about certain aspects as well.
Tell me, other than sourcing your apparent extensive and unrivalled knowledge from newspapers, how many fingers do you have in the pie to be able to be so black and white about it all?
To say 'There is absolutely no reason' would suggest that you know of all the little nuances of the situation and the financial impact of losing the car park and relocating the community scheme.
Or is it, as I suspect, you just gobbing off about a non-rival who you consider to be more than a non-rival?
Comments
At least when @MillwallFan writes he is respectful that he is on another teams forum.
You on the other hand live up to everyone's expectations of a Millsmall fan
Want more cash in the bank,
Build on land they don't own,
When told no they have a moan,
Fuck em, the planks
Thankfully you don't speak for everyone so that renders your last sentence completely irrelevant.
Millwall fans are obviously gutted that they cannot use something that they do not own to make bundles of loverly cash... something that as we know comes naturally to them on any South East London market stall or darn the pub!
To be honest I’m not very good at explaining how this would screw us over and what the legalities are, so have a look at the link, does a better job of explaining it than I ever could...
https://www.millwallfc.co.uk/siteassets/documents/general/new-bermondsey/new-bermondsey-qa.pdf
Basically the main threat for us is, if we are totally hemmed in as a ground, and lose our car park and control of the immediate surrounding streets, we wouldn’t be able to operate as a league club. We need control over access of coaches, away fan coaches etc. If we didn't the police could recall our license to stage events. The car park is more important than you think!
I think as supporters you have a difficult task in getting wider support as the club is fighting to be a part of the regeneration and reap the dividends; whereas in truth, they do not have to be involved in the regeneration: they need to secure areas around the ground to ensure they can still operate as a football club.
Perversely, at this moment in time the Club itself will have no interest in solving the threats that are detailed in their newsletter as this is their best chance of generating interest in the story and mobilising their supporters to put on the political pressure .
I suspect that like most supporters your main concern is safeguarding your club. Are supporters doing anything to plough the middle ground and seeking agreements to achieve this?
I would support any such group and I suspect so would many others. It would be a honest fight and I would think by now the council door maybe a little ajar and up for a compromise. We have quite a few experts on how to twist a Council's arms!
Unfortunately I would not support the Millwall plan as I think it is inferior. There is also a little bit inside of me that would be a little unchuffed if I had helped to make you financially secure!
The document sounds very one sided, which is to be expected and not unacceptable, but there is little in there that makes me think that the football club have been harshly treated. The CPO has been used as the land is thought to be needed for large scale regeneration which is what CPOs are for. It gives the Local Authority the ability to acquire assets that it believes can be used for the greater good of the community even if it is to the detriment of a limited few.
I completely understand why Millwall would want a slice of the money and the mention of financial security and non football income, as desirable as that might be, comes up more than once but is not the responsibility of the Local Authority. It also could be viewed as 'State Aid' rather like the Olympic Stadium was for West Ham. Sure, if Charlton were to be given assets, that are currently in public ownership, that would make it able to compete better with other cubs that are not getting the same 'hand outs', then I would be more than happy, but it wouldn't make it fair and it wouldn't make it right!
It seems that the only genuine argument is that the club doesn't trust the Local Authority to protect it's ability to continue to hold a safety certificate for the New Den. It would seem that the football club believe that the only people that are able to do so are those associated with Millwall. Not only do I think that the Council probably employ more planning experts than the club but I can't see that the Council would (nor that the local residents or fans would) allow something to be developed that would make the New Den obsolete. In any event there is no justification in giving the football club large chunks of land just in case the Council fail to honour their promises.
I don't think there is any deliberate action to penalise Millwall Football Club. I guess that this route has been taken because those making the decisions stand to benefit from it, financially. Even though that might, well, be wrong I don't think it affects Millwall's rights to the money made from the development. I also, with no evidence, assume that if there were a fair bidding process it is entirely possible that neither Millwall nor Renewal would win the bids. It looks clear to me that something has been done, quietly, to add significant value that can be shared with people that, shall we say, will do well out of it. Rumours of former Council members and/or employees being associated with Renewal do make it look like there is something underhand being done but, in reality, if more money could be raised, it should be going to the Council to be spent on public services for the local residents, not be given to a football club that employees footballers earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.
I suspect that if the development were to make the New Den struggle for a safety certificate that would be the time to protest. Sadly, for Millwall, I see no good reason for them to be given any control over the land, and certainly no financial rewards from it.
https://www.londonnewsonline.co.uk/exclusive-millwall-announce-progress-on-talks-with-developers-renewal/
This isn't going to end well.
Plans for horse poo both inside AND outside the Den ?