You can buy strawberries all year round and whilst they look nice, foreign strawberries don't match up to the english ones - probably because they ripen in the box. In Italy they sell some strange shaped tomatoes, but the don't half taste good!
The best, most reliable toaster in the world - Dualit. JCBs The most reliable vacuum cleaner - the Henry - made by Numatic (do you ever see anything else in hotels?) Dr Martens Ebac washing machines Quality clothing brands (the likes of Sunspel who have been in business since 1860 and make probably the best t-shirt you can buy.) The list is virtually endless.
In terms of agricultural produce, the genie is out if the bottle - we in the First World nations have become used to having what produce we want, when we want it, often at much lower prices than it could be produced at home.
It is difficult, even where you want to, to identify "local" produce, except where clearly out of season - because, even where food labelling is clear, the country of origin is not always obvious (often, the last country in a production and packaging chain will be flagged on the front of the packet in a supermarket) - as far as I can make out, all the Asda cooked chicken products come from animals farmed and processed in Thailand.
For fruit and vegetables, although more expensive, independent greengrocers are generally a better bet, if for no other reason than you will see the boxes containing them (emblazoned with country of origin) when picking your selection.
For people to buy local, we have to return to notions of seasonal and limited availability (though, possibly thankfully, not pickling and salting, because of refrigeration). But we'd also have to learn to cook for ourselves again, avoiding ready meals, prepared foods, etc.
Even things as basic as the type of potato you eat would have to be reassessed. We'd probably never be able to shop for food in M&S again, for reasons other than (in my case) being too cheap.
As for @SDAddick's California, I'm not sure that agriculture is doing so well there these days. Water is getting scarcer and far too many of the cash crops require abundant supplies.
All great points as always.
As for California, a very salient point as well. Agriculture does continue to boom, and thankfully it has been a very good winter for rain, but there are undeniably long term consequences that are now irreversible. I wasn't trying to hold California up as a model, moreso just to point out my background of coming from an area rich with agriculture (and thus me being less able to judge the flow of agricultural goods).
California, particularly the San Joaquin Valley, even though I think it ships a large, large majority of its crops to the US, provides a good example of the effect on the environment from large scale aggressive agricultural practices (drought, land sinking, dead ecosystems, etc).
So I'm going to try to do this without being political because I think it's an interesting and difficult question:
We're going through a phase in the States right now of "buying American" and increasing American manufacturing, and potentially punishing imports/importing countries.
Putting some of Trump's more extreme rhetoric (particularly around trade) aside, and just dealing with manufacturing, this is an interesting and difficult question. We have manufacturing jobs that are gone. In some cases gone overseas, in many cases gone to automation.
Both options provide a FAR cheaper alternative to products being made in the U.S. There are a lot of reasons for this, from the costs of space to the cost of labor to the need for natural resources not found here (and many more).
So what are we to do? For many things, there is not an American option to buy. But even if we do increase manufacturing and bring those jobs and factories back (and let's pretend that's entirely viable), the cost of goods will skyrocket. The jobs that would be restored should help improve the overall economy (and tax intake for governments). But would they offset the cost to the consumer? And would there be a willingness to pay the price increase for buying American if there is competition for items that are produced overseas far more cheaply? And what would the reaction be if there was no option provided and we HAD to buy American?
Given that wages are only JUST starting to recover and grow after the Recession in 2008, would the improvement in the economy we'd see be enough to boost wages to offset these costs?
Globalization is hard.
I'm using the States as an example because it's the economy I know best, but I imagine you could pretty much ask the same questions of a post-EU Britain.
It'll never be possible to buy locally all the time. Given the choice I will always buy local, not just from this country. Wish I could buy English bacon over here.
We built an empire because of a desire to keep the nation fed, I appreciate that is not the only reason for building tell empire but it was a biggun
During the second world war we had to import more than 50 million tonnes of items from abroad to stay fed
I will always do my best to buy British but when even onions are imported it's difficult
We do lead the world in terms of arms. Our weapons industry is thriving, what rich bugger at the head of one of those companies wants an end to global conflict. Or even the political men and women that are honorary board members.
One thing I find uncomfortable and have since I realised it happened is the desire or necessity to find things and do things cheaper. When living in London and the south east has become so expensive no British born nationals can afford to do cleaning jobs and all that work is passed to people prepared to do them and accept a lower standard of living I am more than a bit ashamed.
Seasonal produce or at least what used to be seasonal to the uk is now available all year round. I can't see consumers allowing the free availability of produce sliding back to how it used to be.
We don't actually manufacture that much here anymore anyway. There's hardly anything that can't be produced cheaper or better elsewhere on the planet.
That is rubbish. We are the 11th largest manufacturing country in the world. We make huge quantities of all types of stuff. More statistics than you can shake a stick at here. themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/
(Who'd have guessed that there were 300,000+ jobs in both furniture manufacturing and textiles for example?)
Edited to add: As an amateur investor I've a fondnes for shares in UK manufacturing companies and in the main they have served me well. Whether that's shares in Ricardo - a superb business most will never have heard of - but barely a F1 team or a Le Mans 24hr car would get to the grid without them - or businesses like IMI and Melrose.
This is a very interesting point - but when people talk about "manufacturing" they tend to have a mental image of smoke-stack factories and thousands of workers streaming out of factories at 4.30PM every day.
As you allude to the UK still manufactures lots of things but a lot of the work is now done by smaller companies and - more importantly - huge amounts of work that would once have been done by people is now done by automation.
Hence, whilst the UK still does well out of manufacturing, this does not necessarily result in lots of employment for the unskilled males in the workforce - these manufacturers largely need educated designers/scientists/IT people because the grunt work is done by machines and not people.
This is only going to get worse as we move forward and see amazing things come into the marketplace like 3D-printing which has the potential to absolutely revolutionize how we produce things.
Quite a few years ago, this country had the land to support thirteen million people. Since then, farming techniques have possibly got a bit better but more of our land has been built on so I'd say it's still around that figure but even if we could support twice that number, we'd still have nearly forty million people for whom we'd need to import food. As it is, we don't use all our non-built on land for farming, and a good job too.
So it's no wonder we import most of our food.
As for non-food items, it's generally cheaper to make things elsewhere, but we are reasonably good at producing high-tech and/or high quality items, so if we all want to drive around in British cars, let's all go to the Morgan showroom (https://www.borro.com/uk/borro-blog/british-car-brands-owners).
You can buy strawberries all year round and whilst they look nice, foreign strawberries don't match up to the english ones - probably because they ripen in the box. In Italy they sell some strange shaped tomatoes, but the don't half taste good!
To me, foreign strawberries tend to be less flavoursome for some reason and, a bit like the fruit you get in a US supermarket, often oversized probably because people often think bigger is better.
You can buy strawberries all year round and whilst they look nice, foreign strawberries don't match up to the english ones - probably because they ripen in the box. In Italy they sell some strange shaped tomatoes, but the don't half taste good!
To me, foreign strawberries tend to be less flavoursome for some reason and, a bit like the fruit you get in a US supermarket, often oversized probably because people often think bigger is better.
Yes, it is going off track a bit but in say Italy - they still know enough about food (they are losing this) to understand the importance of flavour over looks. All of our tomatoes have to be a certain size and perfect looking. I have had the pleasure/ no honour to have eaten meals cooked by Italian 'Mamas', using the freshness and qulaity of the ingredients to the maximum. It is a priviledge because I won't find the like in any posh/expensive restaurant. IT is hard to explain how good food can actually taste and how many people will never know it.
Going back on track - the best tasting food is always going to be fresh and the freshest food will always be found on our doorstep!
Really ? What do we currently make here that's the best on offer ? I know about butter shortbread and Scotch whisky ;0)
Seriously though. I doubt the list is overly long.
Top end cars for starters Quality shoes Quality clothing Other countries currency Rolls Royce engines Weapons Aero & space products Movies Tv programmes Music
You can buy strawberries all year round and whilst they look nice, foreign strawberries don't match up to the english ones - probably because they ripen in the box. In Italy they sell some strange shaped tomatoes, but the don't half taste good!
To me, foreign strawberries tend to be less flavoursome for some reason and, a bit like the fruit you get in a US supermarket, often oversized probably because people often think bigger is better.
Yes, it is going off track a bit but in say Italy - they still know enough about food (they are losing this) to understand the importance of flavour over looks. All of our tomatoes have to be a certain size and perfect looking. I have had the pleasure/ no honour to have eaten meals cooked by Italian 'Mamas', using the freshness and qulaity of the ingredients to the maximum. It is a priviledge because I won't find the like in any posh/expensive restaurant. IT is hard to explain how good food can actually taste and how many people will never know it.
Going back on track - the best tasting food is always going to be fresh and the freshest food will always be found on our doorstep!
A country like Italy will always have more local produce on sale as their climate is better! Spain even more so.
There ARE fresh British products in supermarkets. Potatoes are predominantly British, I bought English coxes last week in Sainsbury's, sprouts, kale, spring greens, cabbage, leeks, carrots, cauliflowers these are all mainly local as well. Broccoli and salad crops are locally produced in summer as well
And there are massive greenhouses in Thanet that grow peppers for 7/8 months of the year now.
However supermarkets need to sell produce all year round. If there's a bad crop in one country, or it's out of season, they source elsewhere, that's what WE the customer expects.
The thing with food products, is that some of it is driven by our changing tastes and some of it is driven by price. So long as Spain can import enough Moroccans to pick their strawberries and lettuces and the cost of getting them to the UK makes sense, we will continue to import them. However, with the growth of nationalism, there are 2 immediate issues with that scenario. One is that people in the south of Spain will start to demand that the immigrants who do these jobs leave and drive up the wages (and costs) of production. The other is that we end up with no trade agreement that allows the free flow of goods to the UK. All those lorries queued up waiting to pass customs at Dover will soon make the whole thing uneconomic (especially if there are no barriers to Germany or the Netherlands). There is a price at which either Thanet Earth will expand or people will stop eating out of season strawberries or lettuce; maybe a bit of both.
Seasonal produce or at least what used to be seasonal to the uk is now available all year round. I can't see consumers allowing the free availability of produce sliding back to how it used to be.
We don't actually manufacture that much here anymore anyway. There's hardly anything that can't be produced cheaper or better elsewhere on the planet.
This is only going to get worse as we move forward and see amazing things come into the marketplace like 3D-printing which has the potential to absolutely revolutionize how we produce things.
People and 3D printing are the ball ache of my life at the moment. They all seem to think you only need a couple of weeks experience with a cheap bit of software, press the green button and hey presto a perfectly usable component will made. Of course there is a great deal more to design than they think, a fair knowledge of materials for starters.
I think you are spot on with this technology, its already making huge impact in manufacturing, virtually any material can be print now, if you are willing to pay. Rather than things getting worse I think we might actually see 3D printing complementing existing techniques. A lot of Formula 1 non-structural component are now printed in carbon fibre.
The success of defence manufacturing is a bit of a myth, the largest companies may have plant here but the money flows globally. BAE is mainly US funded even - the government just maintain a golden share. The Eurofighter typhoon is 70% Italian, but assembled here. We supply components, and assemble, but the bulk of the money flows elsewhere.
We keep strategic manufacture onshore like guns and explosives, but these are way too expensive to export, hence everyone shoots American guns and blows things up with czech explosives.
We produce a lot of the world's crowd control items though, so that's something to be proud of!
Pharma is a strength, that's true. Don't think we are free to buy British in that case, of course.
The bloke from Creek sprang into action. Mr Mike Creek himself. It seems that it's very much a family biz, and they don't actually have "customer service" as such. They need it. Imagine if the CEO of Charlton did away with customer service people and managed it herself. What? Oh.....
The best, most reliable toaster in the world - Dualit. JCBs The most reliable vacuum cleaner - the Henry - made by Numatic (do you ever see anything else in hotels?) Dr Martens Ebac washing machines Quality clothing brands (the likes of Sunspel who have been in business since 1860 and make probably the best t-shirt you can buy.) The list is virtually endless.
Sunspel t-shirts had better be good at £65+ a pop!
In all seriousness, I'm all in favour of keeping things as local as possible. I try and use local independent shops where practicable so that I'm supporting the people who live in my area as directly as I can.
We are in a society where we can have fresh food imported regularly, so we have moved away from a seasonal relationship with food. I think that's a bit of a shame in some ways - but then again culinary tastes are far wider than they used to be and not everything I need is grown or produced in Medway - spices for a curry are not exactly Kentish produce, for example.
Never the less, let's not forget that trading with other countries is also beneficial for us and them - although the tough part is ensuring that it's done ethically and fairly so that everyone wins.
Never heard of Sunspel but just took a look. T shirts at £65 look like a loss-leader. Their grey hoodie is £425. I am all in favour of buying British but it has to be a logical commercial decision, not blind loyalty where someone is having a laugh at your expense. I was curious about Prague's English Sparkling wine link because that's invariably Champagne prices, although Lyme Bay looks well priced and I will give it a go, although it's going to have to compete with Prosecco at £7 a bottle to get on Mrs Sin's buying list.
The success of defence manufacturing is a bit of a myth, the largest companies may have plant here but the money flows globally. BAE is mainly US funded even - the government just maintain a golden share. The Eurofighter typhoon is 70% Italian, but assembled here. We supply components, and assemble, but the bulk of the money flows elsewhere.
We keep strategic manufacture onshore like guns and explosives, but these are way too expensive to export, hence everyone shoots American guns and blows things up with czech explosives.
We produce a lot of the world's crowd control items though, so that's something to be proud of!
Unfortunately not often needed at the Valley nowadays!
I like this myth that the Europeans do their shopping at local markets and shun the supermarkets and only buy local produce. The French had huge hypermarkets in the 1970's and so does the rest of Europe now and I don't think they are empty of people. Maybe the UK people have evolved into people who don't want spend hours trudging around a village market carry a multitude of bags buying carrots with mud on. Also it isn't fun in our nice damp climate.
I like this myth that the Europeans do their shopping at local markets and shun the supermarkets and only buy local produce. The French had huge hypermarkets in the 1970's and so does the rest of Europe now and I don't think they are empty of people. Maybe the UK people have evolved into people who don't want spend hours trudging around a village market carry a multitude of bags buying carrots with mud on. Also it isn't fun in our nice damp climate.
That isnt what I suggested. I wrote that France invented the hypermarket. The point is that they exist side by side witth the smaller shops and markets. That isnt a choice available to the citizens of Eltham, but it seems to me that the citizens of Eltham dont give a toss so long as their High Street has a competitive choice of fast food outlets and pound shops. That in turn, may sound snobbish, but Eltham isnt Oldham. Walking distance from the High Street are properties that change hands for a million or more.
I like this myth that the Europeans do their shopping at local markets and shun the supermarkets and only buy local produce. The French had huge hypermarkets in the 1970's and so does the rest of Europe now and I don't think they are empty of people. Maybe the UK people have evolved into people who don't want spend hours trudging around a village market carry a multitude of bags buying carrots with mud on. Also it isn't fun in our nice damp climate.
.....and get charged the earth just to park at your local high street.
Parking restrictions, and local councils cosying up to supermarkets (including the god awful 'Local', smaller, ones) have impacted local shops greatly.
I still, whenever possible, eat seasonal produce and use a butcher that knows exactly where his shops meat has come from.
The fruit in supermarkets is terrible and I don't understand why people buy it. Maybe taste buds have been abused for so long that poor produce is seen as being the norm.
We produce some of the best food in the world. Just look at our ever expanding restaurant culture, so the produce is out there if people are serious about buying British.
Have they moved all the Doc Martens production back to the UK then? Cos they were definitely made abroad a while ago.
2% of their production is in the UK (Made in England brand) - the other 98% are made in Thailand.
This for me is the biggest problem with any notion of buying British. Businesses move their operations freely around the world chasing the cheapest land, labour and tax. National assets are sold off to foreign investors so that huge chunks (perhaps even the bulk) of our national infrastructure has overseas ownership - often through complex ownership chains so that it is difficult to see who really owns what. Whilst the big boys in industry and finance move their assets around spending and investing where it suits them, ordinary people are encouraged to compartmentalise their spending, favouritising those who live in close proximity to them. We live in an increasingly interconnected world where those with lots of money and power are free to do what they like where they like and yet there's tacit pressure on me to purchase goods made in Birmingham over those made in Bangladesh. Please forgive me but I'm going to spend my meagre income ensuring that I get the best value for money for me and my family, not out of preference to a business based on the fact that it's only a couple of hundred and not a couple of thousand miles away. I may factor ethical considerations into my purchases, but I'm afraid that buying for nationalistic reasons comes a long way down behind environmental, animal welfare and human rights concerns.
I think we have to firstly care and then be a bit more knowledgable. I would never buy a Vauxhaul because whilst they make some cars in this country, GM uses the badge to imply they are british (Badge engineering) generally you are bying an Opel. I don't like being conned. They should make all the cars they sell in Britain in this country in my opinion. Same with Ford!
Comments
JCBs
The most reliable vacuum cleaner - the Henry - made by Numatic (do you ever see anything else in hotels?)
Dr Martens
Ebac washing machines
Quality clothing brands (the likes of Sunspel who have been in business since 1860 and make probably the best t-shirt you can buy.)
The list is virtually endless.
As for California, a very salient point as well. Agriculture does continue to boom, and thankfully it has been a very good winter for rain, but there are undeniably long term consequences that are now irreversible. I wasn't trying to hold California up as a model, moreso just to point out my background of coming from an area rich with agriculture (and thus me being less able to judge the flow of agricultural goods).
California, particularly the San Joaquin Valley, even though I think it ships a large, large majority of its crops to the US, provides a good example of the effect on the environment from large scale aggressive agricultural practices (drought, land sinking, dead ecosystems, etc).
During the second world war we had to import more than 50 million tonnes of items from abroad to stay fed
I will always do my best to buy British but when even onions are imported it's difficult
We do lead the world in terms of arms. Our weapons industry is thriving, what rich bugger at the head of one of those companies wants an end to global conflict. Or even the political men and women that are honorary board members.
One thing I find uncomfortable and have since I realised it happened is the desire or necessity to find things and do things cheaper. When living in London and the south east has become so expensive no British born nationals can afford to do cleaning jobs and all that work is passed to people prepared to do them and accept a lower standard of living I am more than a bit ashamed.
As you allude to the UK still manufactures lots of things but a lot of the work is now done by smaller companies and - more importantly - huge amounts of work that would once have been done by people is now done by automation.
Hence, whilst the UK still does well out of manufacturing, this does not necessarily result in lots of employment for the unskilled males in the workforce - these manufacturers largely need educated designers/scientists/IT people because the grunt work is done by machines and not people.
This is only going to get worse as we move forward and see amazing things come into the marketplace like 3D-printing which has the potential to absolutely revolutionize how we produce things.
So it's no wonder we import most of our food.
As for non-food items, it's generally cheaper to make things elsewhere, but we are reasonably good at producing high-tech and/or high quality items, so if we all want to drive around in British cars, let's all go to the Morgan showroom (https://www.borro.com/uk/borro-blog/british-car-brands-owners).
Going back on track - the best tasting food is always going to be fresh and the freshest food will always be found on our doorstep!
There ARE fresh British products in supermarkets. Potatoes are predominantly British, I bought English coxes last week in Sainsbury's, sprouts, kale, spring greens, cabbage, leeks, carrots, cauliflowers these are all mainly local as well. Broccoli and salad crops are locally produced in summer as well
And there are massive greenhouses in Thanet that grow peppers for 7/8 months of the year now.
However supermarkets need to sell produce all year round. If there's a bad crop in one country, or it's out of season, they source elsewhere, that's what WE the customer expects.
We keep strategic manufacture onshore like guns and explosives, but these are way too expensive to export, hence everyone shoots American guns and blows things up with czech explosives.
We produce a lot of the world's crowd control items though, so that's something to be proud of!
Gold ffs? I wonder how sustainable that is!
The bloke from Creek sprang into action. Mr Mike Creek himself. It seems that it's very much a family biz, and they don't actually have "customer service" as such. They need it. Imagine if the CEO of Charlton did away with customer service people and managed it herself. What? Oh.....
In all seriousness, I'm all in favour of keeping things as local as possible. I try and use local independent shops where practicable so that I'm supporting the people who live in my area as directly as I can.
We are in a society where we can have fresh food imported regularly, so we have moved away from a seasonal relationship with food. I think that's a bit of a shame in some ways - but then again culinary tastes are far wider than they used to be and not everything I need is grown or produced in Medway - spices for a curry are not exactly Kentish produce, for example.
Never the less, let's not forget that trading with other countries is also beneficial for us and them - although the tough part is ensuring that it's done ethically and fairly so that everyone wins.
Maybe the UK people have evolved into people who don't want spend hours trudging around a village market carry a multitude of bags buying carrots with mud on. Also it isn't fun in our nice damp climate.
Parking restrictions, and local councils cosying up to supermarkets (including the god awful 'Local', smaller, ones) have impacted local shops greatly.
I still, whenever possible, eat seasonal produce and use a butcher that knows exactly where his shops meat has come from.
The fruit in supermarkets is terrible and I don't understand why people buy it. Maybe taste buds have been abused for so long that poor produce is seen as being the norm.
We produce some of the best food in the world. Just look at our ever expanding restaurant culture, so the produce is out there if people are serious about buying British.