English food is often very good but costs so much. I hardly ever eat out and could never afford to go to one of the places Big Bad World talks about. Part of the reason we don't have the sort of places people here have talked about that are connected to the land is down to our history, we industrialised first and so the link between urban populations and the land is very distant. (To an extent the same is true for ex-British settler colonies like the US, Canada, Australia etc). Part of it is down to our culture, I'm afraid to say and principally our class system. The picture painted of Europe in general is of a place where everyone more or less eats the same depending on what region they're from. You also socialise in bistros, restaurants and cafes far more than bars, and in many countries even the bar culture has an element of food (eg tapas) with restraint in drinking. If you're poor, you just have less of it. Here we have so many vestiges of social segregation that there literally are different diets if you're wealthy or not, and guess who gets the unhealthy cheap stuff. The jokes about Scottish cuisine are partly about culture, but a lot more about class as Scotland has a much higher proportion of poorer people. Having 3 chicken shops in every shopping parade in London is also about class and culture. They're aimed at teenagers, but its always the poorer kids you see there. Of course a lot of people value the food they eat and do their best to cook rather than reheat, but it is a skill that is not widely valued and it becomes very easy to just order a takeaway rather than cook something. And of course the other thing is that cooking from ingredients is cheaper than takeaway, but can be more expensive than buying ready meals or jars of sauce. Which in itself is crazy. We all end up paying for this, through the health costs and associated costs of driving what amounts to processed unhealthy ingredients up and down the country. But I can't see the will to change it.
I agree with this. I remember seeing a TV story years back about re-opening of a pie and mash shop in the east end One of the punters said " beautiful. Iss got a bit of gristle and I love that" There's always been an element of inverted snobbery about our greasy spoon diet. Pies, puddings,stews,meat and 2 veg with gravy, all designed to fill you up and keep you warm. Our diet used to be the laughing stock of Europe and beyond. Of course, post war rationing and the like didn't t help Things began to change during the 60's with the emergence of a more multicultural Britain - Indian and Chinese restaurants and takeaways. Access to a wider variety of fresh produce. Cheaper continental travel meant exposure to continental cuisine. More recently celebrity chef culture has broadened horizons. There's a been a massive change in our lifetime.
English food is often very good but costs so much. I hardly ever eat out and could never afford to go to one of the places Big Bad World talks about. Part of the reason we don't have the sort of places people here have talked about that are connected to the land is down to our history, we industrialised first and so the link between urban populations and the land is very distant. (To an extent the same is true for ex-British settler colonies like the US, Canada, Australia etc). Part of it is down to our culture, I'm afraid to say and principally our class system. The picture painted of Europe in general is of a place where everyone more or less eats the same depending on what region they're from. You also socialise in bistros, restaurants and cafes far more than bars, and in many countries even the bar culture has an element of food (eg tapas) with restraint in drinking. If you're poor, you just have less of it. Here we have so many vestiges of social segregation that there literally are different diets if you're wealthy or not, and guess who gets the unhealthy cheap stuff. The jokes about Scottish cuisine are partly about culture, but a lot more about class as Scotland has a much higher proportion of poorer people. Having 3 chicken shops in every shopping parade in London is also about class and culture. They're aimed at teenagers, but its always the poorer kids you see there. Of course a lot of people value the food they eat and do their best to cook rather than reheat, but it is a skill that is not widely valued and it becomes very easy to just order a takeaway rather than cook something. And of course the other thing is that cooking from ingredients is cheaper than takeaway, but can be more expensive than buying ready meals or jars of sauce. Which in itself is crazy. We all end up paying for this, through the health costs and associated costs of driving what amounts to processed unhealthy ingredients up and down the country. But I can't see the will to change it.
I agree with this. I remember seeing a TV story years back about re-opening of a pie and mash shop in the east end One of the punters said " beautiful. Iss got a bit of gristle and I love that" There's always been an element of inverted snobbery about our greasy spoon diet. Pies, puddings,stews,meat and 2 veg with gravy, all designed to fill you up and keep you warm. Our diet used to be the laughing stock of Europe and beyond. Of course, post war rationing and the like didn't t help Things began to change during the 60's with the emergence of a more multicultural Britain - Indian and Chinese restaurants and takeaways. Access to a wider variety of fresh produce. Cheaper continental travel meant exposure to continental cuisine. More recently celebrity chef culture has broadened horizons. There's a been a massive change in our lifetime.
It's going off topic, but the change in the Czech diet has been even faster and more remarkable. When I arrived in 1993, basically they were not eating vegetables. There would be the meat and either potatoes or their ridiculous version of dumplings. The only restaurant serving salad as a side was an Icelandic one, way to expensive for locals.
Then both the food and the Western thinking on diet (and fags) poured in, and within about 12 years, the life expectancy of Czechs had shot up 3 years.
To try and get back on topic, there are of course the same efforts to get people to buy Czech. And many of them will swear that their stuff is The Best. Especially dairy products. I think every country in northern Europe believes that, pointing lovingly to the beautiful lands where the stuff comes from; and ignoring the industrial nature of production (especially true here). Of course they do have one world class product in food and drink, their beer, so when I see young people ordering Stella- at a premium to Czech beers - I want to shake them. But Czech beer is what their Dads drink, so..
In the end, when it comes to fresh food and drink, local from smaller producers ought always to be better, wherever you are. Then some tastes become 'primal' so every country thinks its bread, dairy, meat etc is 'the best'. Cheese is a great example. I am very partial to English, and thankfully M&S are offering a decent range here now. But my wife isn't mad on it. She prefers Hermelin, which for me is a pale imitation of Brie. These are tastes we grew up with, I guess. English tea, English biscuits, English bread (without cumin), English butter, English proper ale; I would select them over Czech or other EU country options, when I can, because they taste better to me. But are they actually better? I guess the answer would lie in how successfully we export them...
here's a nice little British product I bought a few years ago. The Owl smart meter.. Mind you it was a right palava setting it up here with the continental wiring system. Well the controller eats up batteries, ironically for an energy saving tool, so I was just looking to see how the devices look, 8 years later, maybe it would be worth getting a new one...and I got as far as
OWL +USB is a more advanced product with a PC link (not compatible with MAC) to upload usage data to store and review graphically.
Muppets...
Sorry @PragueAddick but if you spend a couple of hundred or whatever on something like this which operates on batteries and connects to your computer or phone or whatever to help you save about 15p in energy costs over the lifetime of the product....then I'm not sure which one's the muppet!
Hell will freeze over before I let anyone fit a smart meter in my house.
here's a nice little British product I bought a few years ago. The Owl smart meter.. Mind you it was a right palava setting it up here with the continental wiring system. Well the controller eats up batteries, ironically for an energy saving tool, so I was just looking to see how the devices look, 8 years later, maybe it would be worth getting a new one...and I got as far as
OWL +USB is a more advanced product with a PC link (not compatible with MAC) to upload usage data to store and review graphically.
Muppets...
Sorry @PragueAddick but if you spend a couple of hundred or whatever on something like this which operates on batteries and connects to your computer or phone or whatever to help you save about 15p in energy costs over the lifetime of the product....then I'm not sure which one's the muppet!
Hell will freeze over before I let anyone fit a smart meter in my house.
Well the one I have does not connect to my computer or phone. And I think it cost about £50 - £60. Although there was more than I expected for the electrician because at the time the little UK company had not really thought about continental wiring systems.) (thread relevance).
The idea is that the mobile unit shows your total consumption at any time. Switch something off, and see the effect it has on your consumption. Quite educational. Not only what gobbles up electricity, but also what doesn't. So I could prove to my wife that the table lamp left on to deter burglars is wasting sod all elec. And that the LED lights are saving a shedload compared with what they replaced. And that the underfloor heating in the bathroom might be an unaffordable luxury. etc. So over the 8 years I've had it, it has been pretty cost effective I think. But the batteries are a pain, albeit I use re-charegeables.
Assuming that a smart-meter in the UK would educate people in the same way, why are you so virulently against them?
here's a nice little British product I bought a few years ago. The Owl smart meter.. Mind you it was a right palava setting it up here with the continental wiring system. Well the controller eats up batteries, ironically for an energy saving tool, so I was just looking to see how the devices look, 8 years later, maybe it would be worth getting a new one...and I got as far as
OWL +USB is a more advanced product with a PC link (not compatible with MAC) to upload usage data to store and review graphically.
Muppets...
Sorry @PragueAddick but if you spend a couple of hundred or whatever on something like this which operates on batteries and connects to your computer or phone or whatever to help you save about 15p in energy costs over the lifetime of the product....then I'm not sure which one's the muppet!
Hell will freeze over before I let anyone fit a smart meter in my house.
Well the one I have does not connect to my computer or phone. And I think it cost about £50 - £60. Although there was more than I expected for the electrician because at the time the little UK company had not really thought about continental wiring systems.) (thread relevance).
The idea is that the mobile unit shows your total consumption at any time. Switch something off, and see the effect it has on your consumption. Quite educational. Not only what gobbles up electricity, but also what doesn't. So I could prove to my wife that the table lamp left on to deter burglars is wasting sod all elec. And that the LED lights are saving a shedload compared with what they replaced. And that the underfloor heating in the bathroom might be an unaffordable luxury. etc. So over the 8 years I've had it, it has been pretty cost effective I think. But the batteries are a pain, albeit I use re-charegeables.
Assuming that a smart-meter in the UK would educate people in the same way, why are you so virulently against them?
Good question. I suppose (in my head anyway) I'm someone who knows what stuff is chewing up my leccy usage and can't think of a single thing I'd change as a result of having a smart meter. I know I've got outdoor lighting and I know it's staying on when it's dark. I use gas for heating, hot water and the hob. They are on when they need to be. I reckon the most inefficient piece of kit I have is something that keeps 4 litres of water at boiling point and dispenses it when needed. But it's so much better than waiting for a kettle and it ain't being switched off. My combined gas and electric bill last year was less than £1000. I just can't imagine a smart meter would tell me anything I didnt know or save me much money.
Comments
I remember seeing a TV story years back about re-opening of a pie and mash shop in the east end
One of the punters said " beautiful. Iss got a bit of gristle and I love that"
There's always been an element of inverted snobbery about our greasy spoon diet.
Pies, puddings,stews,meat and 2 veg with gravy, all designed to fill you up and keep you warm.
Our diet used to be the laughing stock of Europe and beyond.
Of course, post war rationing and the like didn't t help
Things began to change during the 60's with the emergence of a more multicultural Britain - Indian and Chinese restaurants and takeaways.
Access to a wider variety of fresh produce.
Cheaper continental travel meant exposure to continental cuisine.
More recently celebrity chef culture has broadened horizons.
There's a been a massive change in our lifetime.
Then both the food and the Western thinking on diet (and fags) poured in, and within about 12 years, the life expectancy of Czechs had shot up 3 years.
To try and get back on topic, there are of course the same efforts to get people to buy Czech. And many of them will swear that their stuff is The Best. Especially dairy products. I think every country in northern Europe believes that, pointing lovingly to the beautiful lands where the stuff comes from; and ignoring the industrial nature of production (especially true here). Of course they do have one world class product in food and drink, their beer, so when I see young people ordering Stella- at a premium to Czech beers - I want to shake them. But Czech beer is what their Dads drink, so..
In the end, when it comes to fresh food and drink, local from smaller producers ought always to be better, wherever you are. Then some tastes become 'primal' so every country thinks its bread, dairy, meat etc is 'the best'. Cheese is a great example. I am very partial to English, and thankfully M&S are offering a decent range here now. But my wife isn't mad on it. She prefers Hermelin, which for me is a pale imitation of Brie. These are tastes we grew up with, I guess. English tea, English biscuits, English bread (without cumin), English butter, English proper ale; I would select them over Czech or other EU country options, when I can, because they taste better to me. But are they actually better? I guess the answer would lie in how successfully we export them...
Hell will freeze over before I let anyone fit a smart meter in my house.
Along with the Birds Eye frozen concentrated orange juice, a strong feature of my memories of days of yore...
My partner's mum (a right posh sort) swore by Mackintosh's Weekend
(I don't mean she sat there in the 70's saying "give me my fecking chocolates")
The idea is that the mobile unit shows your total consumption at any time. Switch something off, and see the effect it has on your consumption. Quite educational. Not only what gobbles up electricity, but also what doesn't. So I could prove to my wife that the table lamp left on to deter burglars is wasting sod all elec. And that the LED lights are saving a shedload compared with what they replaced. And that the underfloor heating in the bathroom might be an unaffordable luxury. etc. So over the 8 years I've had it, it has been pretty cost effective I think. But the batteries are a pain, albeit I use re-charegeables.
Assuming that a smart-meter in the UK would educate people in the same way, why are you so virulently against them?