Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....
In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.
In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?
Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.
If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.
Have people absorbed the significance of Dippy's answer? Here we have arguably the most intellectually rigorous Brexiteer on Cl, conceding that we could see a fall in GDP. In this respect he differs from those shrill immigration-fixated Brexiteers who denounced all such predictions as Project Fear. Respect.
And now here is the significance for the election and particularly health service funding. The Tories are promising increases in funding. And how will it be funded? From economic growth...
Ahem...
Sorry for trying to be honest. We have a binary choice between two parties but there is no binary outcome on the table, much as people pretend there is.
I believe we have hard times ahead, regardless of Brexit, and I just don't think Labour, as currently set up, have the tools to handle serious economic issues. If Labour is not even prepared to contemplate the difficulties of funding their programme I have little faith in their ability to handle unexpected economic problems.
I think the Tories are aware they are not going to have an easy four years without some serious economic upheavals. Not just because of Brexit, but because we have an unsustainable distorted housing market, because of fantasy land interest rates. The housing market must be corrected in a controlled way or it will self correct in an uncontrolled way. Interest rates will inevitably rise as will inflation and house prices will fall as sure as night follows day. Negative equity will halt consumer spending, buy-to-let landlords who have borrowed cheap money and are highly geared will go bankrupt, savers will get decent returns and investments will be confined to ventures that give returns commensurate with the risks. There will be winners and losers but GDP will be hit anytime consumer spending falls off whether Labour or the Tories are in power. More important than how the Tories would fund NHS funding increases in a recession, is how would Labour handle the massive shortfall in the cash they need to cover their pledges in the same recession.
The false sense of predictable Labour outcomes may be attractive, but the dour Tory manifesto I fear is a sign they anticipate difficult times and erred on the side of not making promises to get votes knowing they would otherwise have another 4 years of failed promises.
The majority of people, will vote on an entirely selfish basis of what's in it for me, and on that basis we should vote Labour, and just hope they can deliver. You don't win votes by being honest, both sides know that.
If Labour thought a few weeks ago that it had a chance of gaining power, and were led by someone with experience in leadership rather than campaigning, we would not have seen this manifesto. In truth it was written, in my view, as a propaganda piece to bolster the Corbyn roadshow, not a serious deliverable package. The lack of attention by the leadership to the seemingly unimportant minor matter of costings, is proof enough of that.
Sorry? So why is the Tory manifesto uncosted? Why not criticise them for a manifesto that thwy haven't the nerve (or the wit) to price? Criticise Labour, but in this case tge Yories are even more culpable.
Because they don't have a scooby too what it will cost or how the economy is going to move post Brexit. If the economy can't fund the spending, a government has to take decisions - set priorities, cut spending, tax or borrow.
If May thought she could get away with not having to pretend she knew where we are heading, and making promises just to meet voters' expectations to be bribed, I guess she was wrong.
Do you think just because Corbyn got a maths student to cobble up some figures to show the policies had been costed, that the leadership didn't even bother to jot down, they are worth anything more than yesterdays' chip paper?
Parties decide what they want to promise, then make the assumptions to make the figures add up. Just because you can magic up costs doesn't mean you can magic up the money to match what you actually have to spend.
Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....
In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.
In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?
Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.
If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.
Have people absorbed the significance of Dippy's answer? Here we have arguably the most intellectually rigorous Brexiteer on Cl, conceding that we could see a fall in GDP. In this respect he differs from those shrill immigration-fixated Brexiteers who denounced all such predictions as Project Fear. Respect.
And now here is the significance for the election and particularly health service funding. The Tories are promising increases in funding. And how will it be funded? From economic growth...
Ahem...
Sorry for trying to be honest. We have a binary choice between two parties but there is no binary outcome on the table, much as people pretend there is.
I believe we have hard times ahead, regardless of Brexit, and I just don't think Labour, as currently set up, have the tools to handle serious economic issues. If Labour is not even prepared to contemplate the difficulties of funding their programme I have little faith in their ability to handle unexpected economic problems.
I think the Tories are aware they are not going to have an easy four years without some serious economic upheavals. Not just because of Brexit, but because we have an unsustainable distorted housing market, because of fantasy land interest rates. The housing market must be corrected in a controlled way or it will self correct in an uncontrolled way. Interest rates will inevitably rise as will inflation and house prices will fall as sure as night follows day. Negative equity will halt consumer spending, buy-to-let landlords who have borrowed cheap money and are highly geared will go bankrupt, savers will get decent returns and investments will be confined to ventures that give returns commensurate with the risks. There will be winners and losers but GDP will be hit anytime consumer spending falls off whether Labour or the Tories are in power. More important than how the Tories would fund NHS funding increases in a recession, is how would Labour handle the massive shortfall in the cash they need to cover their pledges in the same recession.
The false sense of predictable Labour outcomes may be attractive, but the dour Tory manifesto I fear is a sign they anticipate difficult times and erred on the side of not making promises to get votes knowing they would otherwise have another 4 years of failed promises.
The majority of people, will vote on an entirely selfish basis of what's in it for me, and on that basis we should vote Labour, and just hope they can deliver. You don't win votes by being honest, both sides know that.
If Labour thought a few weeks ago that it had a chance of gaining power, and were led by someone with experience in leadership rather than campaigning, we would not have seen this manifesto. In truth it was written, in my view, as a propaganda piece to bolster the Corbyn roadshow, not a serious deliverable package. The lack of attention by the leadership to the seemingly unimportant minor matter of costings, is proof enough of that.
Sorry? So why is the Tory manifesto uncosted? Why not criticise them for a manifesto that thwy haven't the nerve (or the wit) to price? Criticise Labour, but in this case tge Yories are even more culpable.
Because they don't have a scooby too what it will cost or how the economy is going to move post Brexit. If the economy can't fund the spending, a government has to take decisions - set priorities, cut spending, tax or borrow.
If May thought she could get away with not having to pretend she knew where we are heading, and making promises just to meet voters' expectations to be bribed, I guess she was wrong.
Do you think just because Corbyn got a maths student to cobble up some figures to show the policies had been costed, that the leadership didn't even bother to jot down, they are worth anything more than yesterdays' chip paper?
Parties decide what they want to promise, then make the assumptions to make the figures add up. Just because you can magic up costs doesn't mean you can magic up the money to match what you actually have to spend.
So you would invest your hard earned in a company where some bloke, who you know has seen the losses in that company increase greatly over the past seven years, came up to you and said "Dips, this is winner mate, give me 50 grand and I'll sort you right out - stand on me bruv", with no business plan or costing to show you what so ever?
Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....
In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.
In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?
Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.
If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.
Have people absorbed the significance of Dippy's answer? Here we have arguably the most intellectually rigorous Brexiteer on Cl, conceding that we could see a fall in GDP. In this respect he differs from those shrill immigration-fixated Brexiteers who denounced all such predictions as Project Fear. Respect.
And now here is the significance for the election and particularly health service funding. The Tories are promising increases in funding. And how will it be funded? From economic growth...
Ahem...
Sorry for trying to be honest. We have a binary choice between two parties but there is no binary outcome on the table, much as people pretend there is.
I believe we have hard times ahead, regardless of Brexit, and I just don't think Labour, as currently set up, have the tools to handle serious economic issues. If Labour is not even prepared to contemplate the difficulties of funding their programme I have little faith in their ability to handle unexpected economic problems.
I think the Tories are aware they are not going to have an easy four years without some serious economic upheavals. Not just because of Brexit, but because we have an unsustainable distorted housing market, because of fantasy land interest rates. The housing market must be corrected in a controlled way or it will self correct in an uncontrolled way. Interest rates will inevitably rise as will inflation and house prices will fall as sure as night follows day. Negative equity will halt consumer spending, buy-to-let landlords who have borrowed cheap money and are highly geared will go bankrupt, savers will get decent returns and investments will be confined to ventures that give returns commensurate with the risks. There will be winners and losers but GDP will be hit anytime consumer spending falls off whether Labour or the Tories are in power. More important than how the Tories would fund NHS funding increases in a recession, is how would Labour handle the massive shortfall in the cash they need to cover their pledges in the same recession.
The false sense of predictable Labour outcomes may be attractive, but the dour Tory manifesto I fear is a sign they anticipate difficult times and erred on the side of not making promises to get votes knowing they would otherwise have another 4 years of failed promises.
The majority of people, will vote on an entirely selfish basis of what's in it for me, and on that basis we should vote Labour, and just hope they can deliver. You don't win votes by being honest, both sides know that.
If Labour thought a few weeks ago that it had a chance of gaining power, and were led by someone with experience in leadership rather than campaigning, we would not have seen this manifesto. In truth it was written, in my view, as a propaganda piece to bolster the Corbyn roadshow, not a serious deliverable package. The lack of attention by the leadership to the seemingly unimportant minor matter of costings, is proof enough of that.
Sorry? So why is the Tory manifesto uncosted? Why not criticise them for a manifesto that thwy haven't the nerve (or the wit) to price? Criticise Labour, but in this case tge Yories are even more culpable.
Because they don't have a scooby too what it will cost or how the economy is going to move post Brexit. If the economy can't fund the spending, a government has to take decisions - set priorities, cut spending, tax or borrow.
If May thought she could get away with not having to pretend she knew where we are heading, and making promises just to meet voters' expectations to be bribed, I guess she was wrong.
Do you think just because Corbyn got a maths student to cobble up some figures to show the policies had been costed, that the leadership didn't even bother to jot down, they are worth anything more than yesterdays' chip paper?
Parties decide what they want to promise, then make the assumptions to make the figures add up. Just because you can magic up costs doesn't mean you can magic up the money to match what you actually have to spend.
Isn't this a similar argument to why Labour won't set a net migration figure? No-one knows how many extra workers the UK may or may not need to meet demand in the future and putting an arbitrary number to such a complex issue is silly.
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Hello - it's me, I'm back with the same question you refused to answer (three times) this time last year.
You said that EU workers were driving down wages in your industry, which was one of the reasons you were voting out. At the same time you repeated the mantra you have above, that you had never been doing so well as under the Tories. I asked you at the time how that could be, both could not be true. You ignored the question. You now state again that your whole industry is doing well. I ask again, how can both be true?
Hi Adele..
I actually thought I answered your question, as I remember it, so my apologies for not.
I didn't say I've never been doing so well as under the Tories (I've only ever worked under a Tory government) I said I've never been out of work under the Tories (true) and my industry is doing well (also true). I work with people everyday who were badly effected under the labour government and having to work for a ridiculously low wage, they say it's only just getting back to where it should be and they're very distrusting of labour and won't be voting for them.
In my time working in construction I've been undercut private work by teams of Eastern Europeans doing the job for ridiculous prices, countless times. We're not talking by the odd 50/100 quid we're talking a huge undercut.
As well as when working for the firm I subcontract to a team of Romanians came in and undercut me on a price that worked out around £80 a day, this lasted for about 4 months until they were sacked for being absolute shite.
Now these instances doesn't mean my industry isn't doing well, I do well enough, I'd like to take on more private work and eventually work for myself but as I say I get undercut, I still have work sub contracting every day earning decent money for my age.
The point I've always tried to make is that right now the English are being massively undercut by the Romanians/Bulgarians/Lithuanians etc. Then there were talks of the EU opening the doors to the Serbians and Macedonians, then what happens? They get into construction, under cut the Romanians/ Bulgarians/ Lithuanians. They then have to drop their prices and undercut the English workers even more, thus driving wages down in general in the industry. It's quite a vicious circle when you think about it.
Donn't get me wrong it's not all I've them, I've worked with a couple really good Eastern European blokes who charge competitive rates, but even they say we are full and more uncontrolled immigration will be bad for the industry.
Anyhow I hope the answer was worth the wait!
"Hi Adele" ? How old are you?
No - it's an evasive bullshit answer that contradict itself as it goes along, just as I expected.
Didn't get that Adele reference but I look forward to @Greenie Junior telling me if he agrees or not with many 100,000's of public sector workers losing their jobs in order to prop up the Tories financial mismanagement (and their policies have definitely failed otherwise we would have been running the much promised surplus NOW...and not hoping it might happen in the middle of the next decade as they're now saying).
'Hello...it's me' is the opening line to one of her best selling songs.
I got caught up with mr 'Hello it's me' that I missed your question so apologies, no of course I don't agree with people losing their jobs due to cuts, however I do realise that sometimes these cuts have to happen.
Lol. That's straight out of the Daily Mail playbook. I've seen estimates that suggest the cuts will result in 1m jobs lost in this decade so forgive me if I don't agree they are all necessary.
The Tories made a conscious decision to focus on cutting public spending back in 2010 to reverse the investments to our public sector and infrastructure made in the previous 13 years. They were told austerity wouldn't work by pretty much all economists at the time yet went ahead anyway and have since focussed almost exclusively on cutting costs, rather than encouraging growth. All in their failed obsession with attempting to achieve a surplus.
These cuts are far in excess of what might have been a reasonable, careful balanced attempt at temporarily reducing public spending while the economy regained the ground lost in 2007-2010. They're ideological and look likely to damage some of our public services terminally.
Vote for more of the same next week but don't expect there not to more and more visable consequences year after year.
When your backs up against the wall, you're live one air and you just can't for the life of you remember the pass word to the fookin Ipad, remember these mortal two words - COORPERATION TAX -
What is better, a little bit of lot, or nothing at all?
Business will not just up and leave, the economy will not just stop. We are one of the worlds wealthiest countries, business wants to make money out of us.
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Hello - it's me, I'm back with the same question you refused to answer (three times) this time last year.
You said that EU workers were driving down wages in your industry, which was one of the reasons you were voting out. At the same time you repeated the mantra you have above, that you had never been doing so well as under the Tories. I asked you at the time how that could be, both could not be true. You ignored the question. You now state again that your whole industry is doing well. I ask again, how can both be true?
Hi Adele..
I actually thought I answered your question, as I remember it, so my apologies for not.
I didn't say I've never been doing so well as under the Tories (I've only ever worked under a Tory government) I said I've never been out of work under the Tories (true) and my industry is doing well (also true). I work with people everyday who were badly effected under the labour government and having to work for a ridiculously low wage, they say it's only just getting back to where it should be and they're very distrusting of labour and won't be voting for them.
In my time working in construction I've been undercut private work by teams of Eastern Europeans doing the job for ridiculous prices, countless times. We're not talking by the odd 50/100 quid we're talking a huge undercut.
As well as when working for the firm I subcontract to a team of Romanians came in and undercut me on a price that worked out around £80 a day, this lasted for about 4 months until they were sacked for being absolute shite.
Now these instances doesn't mean my industry isn't doing well, I do well enough, I'd like to take on more private work and eventually work for myself but as I say I get undercut, I still have work sub contracting every day earning decent money for my age.
The point I've always tried to make is that right now the English are being massively undercut by the Romanians/Bulgarians/Lithuanians etc. Then there were talks of the EU opening the doors to the Serbians and Macedonians, then what happens? They get into construction, under cut the Romanians/ Bulgarians/ Lithuanians. They then have to drop their prices and undercut the English workers even more, thus driving wages down in general in the industry. It's quite a vicious circle when you think about it.
Donn't get me wrong it's not all I've them, I've worked with a couple really good Eastern European blokes who charge competitive rates, but even they say we are full and more uncontrolled immigration will be bad for the industry.
Anyhow I hope the answer was worth the wait!
"Hi Adele" ? How old are you?
No - it's an evasive bullshit answer that contradict itself as it goes along, just as I expected.
Didn't get that Adele reference but I look forward to @Greenie Junior telling me if he agrees or not with many 100,000's of public sector workers losing their jobs in order to prop up the Tories financial mismanagement (and their policies have definitely failed otherwise we would have been running the much promised surplus NOW...and not hoping it might happen in the middle of the next decade as they're now saying).
'Hello...it's me' is the opening line to one of her best selling songs.
I got caught up with mr 'Hello it's me' that I missed your question so apologies, no of course I don't agree with people losing their jobs due to cuts, however I do realise that sometimes these cuts have to happen.
Lol. That's straight out of the Daily Mail playbook. I've seen estimates that suggest the cuts will result in 1m jobs lost in this decade so forgive me if I don't agree they are all necessary.
The Tories made a conscious decision to focus on cutting public spending back in 2010 to reverse the investments to our public sector and infrastructure made in the previous 13 years. They were told austerity wouldn't work by pretty much all economists at the time yet went ahead anyway and have since focussed almost exclusively on cutting costs, rather than encouraging growth. All in their failed obsession with attempting to achieve a surplus.
These cuts are far in excess of what might have been a reasonable, careful balanced attempt at temporarily reducing public spending while the economy regained the ground lost in 2007-2010. They're ideological and look likely to damage some of our public services terminally.
Vote for more of the same next week but don't expect there not to more and more visable consequences year after year.
Increase in rough sleepers every where you go is very visible sign of the impacts of the last 7 years. Those voting for more of the same surely know that is just going to get worse.
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Hello - it's me, I'm back with the same question you refused to answer (three times) this time last year.
You said that EU workers were driving down wages in your industry, which was one of the reasons you were voting out. At the same time you repeated the mantra you have above, that you had never been doing so well as under the Tories. I asked you at the time how that could be, both could not be true. You ignored the question. You now state again that your whole industry is doing well. I ask again, how can both be true?
Hi Adele..
I actually thought I answered your question, as I remember it, so my apologies for not.
I didn't say I've never been doing so well as under the Tories (I've only ever worked under a Tory government) I said I've never been out of work under the Tories (true) and my industry is doing well (also true). I work with people everyday who were badly effected under the labour government and having to work for a ridiculously low wage, they say it's only just getting back to where it should be and they're very distrusting of labour and won't be voting for them.
In my time working in construction I've been undercut private work by teams of Eastern Europeans doing the job for ridiculous prices, countless times. We're not talking by the odd 50/100 quid we're talking a huge undercut.
As well as when working for the firm I subcontract to a team of Romanians came in and undercut me on a price that worked out around £80 a day, this lasted for about 4 months until they were sacked for being absolute shite.
Now these instances doesn't mean my industry isn't doing well, I do well enough, I'd like to take on more private work and eventually work for myself but as I say I get undercut, I still have work sub contracting every day earning decent money for my age.
The point I've always tried to make is that right now the English are being massively undercut by the Romanians/Bulgarians/Lithuanians etc. Then there were talks of the EU opening the doors to the Serbians and Macedonians, then what happens? They get into construction, under cut the Romanians/ Bulgarians/ Lithuanians. They then have to drop their prices and undercut the English workers even more, thus driving wages down in general in the industry. It's quite a vicious circle when you think about it.
Donn't get me wrong it's not all I've them, I've worked with a couple really good Eastern European blokes who charge competitive rates, but even they say we are full and more uncontrolled immigration will be bad for the industry.
Anyhow I hope the answer was worth the wait!
"Hi Adele" ? How old are you?
No - it's an evasive bullshit answer that contradict itself as it goes along, just as I expected.
Didn't get that Adele reference but I look forward to @Greenie Junior telling me if he agrees or not with many 100,000's of public sector workers losing their jobs in order to prop up the Tories financial mismanagement (and their policies have definitely failed otherwise we would have been running the much promised surplus NOW...and not hoping it might happen in the middle of the next decade as they're now saying).
'Hello...it's me' is the opening line to one of her best selling songs.
I got caught up with mr 'Hello it's me' that I missed your question so apologies, no of course I don't agree with people losing their jobs due to cuts, however I do realise that sometimes these cuts have to happen.
So many of these cuts have been unnecessary though.
Tories chose to cut public sector jobs and issue pay freezes. All the while, they dropped corporation tax from 28% to 20% and they plan to go even lower.
The Tories priorities are not with normal, hard-working people. They never have been and they haven't changed.
I personally think that with the corporation tax thing, due to uncertainty in this country, Brexit, the next election etc, that doing all we can to keep these big corporations doing business and giving to our economy is the right thing. These big business are the people that employ the likes of me and you and if ontop of the big tax, the raised minimum wage (which is way to high under Labours suggestion imo) they're not gaining great profit then they'll either cut jobs or they'll do business over seas, thus leaving a lot of people unemployed. Maybe cuts could have been taken elsewhere but I really don't think that hiking up the corporation taxes on big companies is a great idea.
Obviously forcing the likes of Google Facebook amazon etc to pay tax (as correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they don't) would be a good idea, no one should get away with paying none! But personally I think charging more tax to companies and our highest contributors could be counter productive
By the way that's an interesting chart, thanks for posting that
I thought you were a strong-willed, independent young man with a proud family history of hard work and workers' rights? Because this is the rhetoric of a turkey, and this election shall be Christmas. Unless you actually really like being on the wrong end of feudalism?
Dippenhall and Greenie please advise something positive from seven years of Tory rule. May called the election on Brexit issues but she won't say wether my German friend Heidi will have to return home, will CAP grants to farmers be maintained, employment laws protected, fishing rights changed and a thousand other issues. Uncosted vague promises. She is winging it.
In my opinion calling the referendum was a positive and I can also say ive never been out of work under Tory government, my industry is doing well and under Corbyns I can only see people being struck off due to the over zealous tax's imposed on business owners, that coupled with the £10 minimum wage concerns me hugely and I predict we'll see a lot of people out of work..
Although I'm not voting Tory so not sure why you've asked me that.
Hello - it's me, I'm back with the same question you refused to answer (three times) this time last year.
You said that EU workers were driving down wages in your industry, which was one of the reasons you were voting out. At the same time you repeated the mantra you have above, that you had never been doing so well as under the Tories. I asked you at the time how that could be, both could not be true. You ignored the question. You now state again that your whole industry is doing well. I ask again, how can both be true?
Hi Adele..
Donn't get me wrong it's not all I've them, I've worked with a couple really good Eastern European blokes who charge competitive rates, but even they say we are full and more uncontrolled immigration will be bad for the industry.
Anyhow I hope the answer was worth the wait!
"Hi Adele" ? How old are you?
No - it's an evasive bullshit answer that contradict itself as it goes along, just as I expected.
Didn't get that Adele reference but I look forward to @Greenie Junior telling me if he agrees or not with many 100,000's of public sector workers losing their jobs in order to prop up the Tories financial mismanagement (and their policies have definitely failed otherwise we would have been running the much promised surplus NOW...and not hoping it might happen in the middle of the next decade as they're now saying).
By the way that's an interesting chart, thanks for posting that
I thought you were a strong-willed, independent young man with a proud family history of hard work and workers' rights? Because this is the rhetoric of a turkey, and this election shall be Christmas. Unless you actually really like being on the wrong end of feudalism?
Leuth thank you. For feudalism. I choice reminder of the journey the people have been on for centuries, and of the place some Tory minded people (know your bloody place oik!) would like to return us to. Can't continue, got to go and join my local fyrd.
By the way that's an interesting chart, thanks for posting that
I thought you were a strong-willed, independent young man with a proud family history of hard work and workers' rights? Because this is the rhetoric of a turkey, and this election shall be Christmas. Unless you actually really like being on the wrong end of feudalism?
Leuth thank you. For feudalism. I choice reminder of the journey the people have been on for centuries, and of the place some Tory minded people (know your bloody place oik!) would like to return us to. Can't continue, got to go and join my local fyrd.
Seth, the trick is to make sure you have the same number of [blockquote class="Quote"] bits at the top, as [/blockquote] bits at the bottom ( with <> replacing [] obviously)
Wat Tyler: Hold up there John. I just had a thought. You know these crippling taxes and terrible work laws they've been enforcing at the point of a sword? Well haven't you considered who benefits from them?
JB: Yes, Wat - our monstrous ungodly oppressors. What should I consider?
WT: I just...you know, they do employ us. They do let us use their land. They do raise armies to expand their holdings and build such lovely palaces with the money we give them. I know we're starving and broken, but...aren't you a bit scared?
JB? Scared? This is our hour! Why do you say these things?
WT: Well, if we have things our way and stop the taxes and the work laws...maybe the King will leave?
JB: Leave?
WT: Or, idk, the barons will leave too! Go to France or something. Go on a Crusade! Who will rule us then?
JB: Um...we will?
WT: We? We are mere peasants! We need leaders, men of royal blood!
To those who disagreed with my earlier point - I agree Greece is a basket case - it was used in the previous election as a total lie to say if you voted Labour we would be like Greece which was ridiculous. But my point was about Greece was given that it is a basket case, the solution shouldn't be to lock it into a policy that will give it no chance of sorting itself out. And that is what the Germans wanted. It is immoral IMO.
back to this election. My prediction is if the Labour party were to do badly enough at this election, the press will offer to support a right wing Labour leader at the next election. The establishment will see this as a close shave. So it is important, even if Labour don't win,they do better than last time. I don't want teh choice of Tory light or Tory at teh next election. I want to see a vibrant, growing, caring, fairer economy. And I know it will be an economy for rich people to flourish in, Not the super rich, but rich people who are not the enemy but wealth creators, and Labour know that. People on £80k may have to pay £400 a year more under LAbour than they do now, but how much more will they have to pay under the Tories, and if they have kids going to university, old relatives etc....
Can I just ask that why would it be considered a u-turn by May if she turned up to the debate tonight but genius and applauded that Corbyn has done the same after previously refusing to do it?
Can I just ask that why would it be considered a u-turn by May if she turned up to the debate tonight but genius and applauded that Corbyn has done the same after previously refusing to do it?
I kind of get that for Corbyn he has said he won't appear unless May does, now he is belittling her position by ending his own boycott so she is now the only one pathetic and weak enough to speak for herself.
Can I just ask that why would it be considered a u-turn by May if she turned up to the debate tonight but genius and applauded that Corbyn has done the same after previously refusing to do it?
It's the same way it is wiser to have no figures than it is to be fully costed.
Can I just ask that why would it be considered a u-turn by May if she turned up to the debate tonight but genius and applauded that Corbyn has done the same after previously refusing to do it?
I kind of get that for Corbyn he has said he won't appear unless May does, now he is belittling her position by ending his own boycott so she is now the only one pathetic and weak enough to speak for herself.
At least I assume that's how people see it.
I look at it this way, regarding the first multi party TV debate, Corbyn was going to get ridiculed, and it would have been a waste of time, now 2 weeks later and he has been getting his point across and more and more are backing him, and so many more know the real JC and are liking him. May wont appear because as at the last TV's Audience Q and A and the Paxman interview, she will be seen as the incompetent business suit full of fuck all that she really is.
I think we covered that one mate - the idea of a message board is you contribute and then read the responses, not to just repeat the same phrase at random without reading what anyone else has said...
I think we covered that one mate - the idea of a message board is you contribute and then read the responses, not to just repeat the same phrase at random without reading what anyone else has said...
I think we covered that one mate - the idea of a message board is you contribute and then read the responses, not to just repeat the same phrase at random without reading what anyone else has said...
Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....
In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.
In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?
Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.
If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.
Have people absorbed the significance of Dippy's answer? Here we have arguably the most intellectually rigorous Brexiteer on Cl, conceding that we could see a fall in GDP. In this respect he differs from those shrill immigration-fixated Brexiteers who denounced all such predictions as Project Fear. Respect.
And now here is the significance for the election and particularly health service funding. The Tories are promising increases in funding. And how will it be funded? From economic growth...
Ahem...
Sorry for trying to be honest. We have a binary choice between two parties but there is no binary outcome on the table, much as people pretend there is.
I believe we have hard times ahead, regardless of Brexit, and I just don't think Labour, as currently set up, have the tools to handle serious economic issues. If Labour is not even prepared to contemplate the difficulties of funding their programme I have little faith in their ability to handle unexpected economic problems.
I think the Tories are aware they are not going to have an easy four years without some serious economic upheavals. Not just because of Brexit, but because we have an unsustainable distorted housing market, because of fantasy land interest rates. The housing market must be corrected in a controlled way or it will self correct in an uncontrolled way. Interest rates will inevitably rise as will inflation and house prices will fall as sure as night follows day. Negative equity will halt consumer spending, buy-to-let landlords who have borrowed cheap money and are highly geared will go bankrupt, savers will get decent returns and investments will be confined to ventures that give returns commensurate with the risks. There will be winners and losers but GDP will be hit anytime consumer spending falls off whether Labour or the Tories are in power. More important than how the Tories would fund NHS funding increases in a recession, is how would Labour handle the massive shortfall in the cash they need to cover their pledges in the same recession.
The false sense of predictable Labour outcomes may be attractive, but the dour Tory manifesto I fear is a sign they anticipate difficult times and erred on the side of not making promises to get votes knowing they would otherwise have another 4 years of failed promises.
The majority of people, will vote on an entirely selfish basis of what's in it for me, and on that basis we should vote Labour, and just hope they can deliver. You don't win votes by being honest, both sides know that.
If Labour thought a few weeks ago that it had a chance of gaining power, and were led by someone with experience in leadership rather than campaigning, we would not have seen this manifesto. In truth it was written, in my view, as a propaganda piece to bolster the Corbyn roadshow, not a serious deliverable package. The lack of attention by the leadership to the seemingly unimportant minor matter of costings, is proof enough of that.
Sorry? So why is the Tory manifesto uncosted? Why not criticise them for a manifesto that thwy haven't the nerve (or the wit) to price? Criticise Labour, but in this case tge Yories are even more culpable.
Because they don't have a scooby too what it will cost or how the economy is going to move post Brexit. If the economy can't fund the spending, a government has to take decisions - set priorities, cut spending, tax or borrow.
If May thought she could get away with not having to pretend she knew where we are heading, and making promises just to meet voters' expectations to be bribed, I guess she was wrong.
Do you think just because Corbyn got a maths student to cobble up some figures to show the policies had been costed, that the leadership didn't even bother to jot down, they are worth anything more than yesterdays' chip paper?
Parties decide what they want to promise, then make the assumptions to make the figures add up. Just because you can magic up costs doesn't mean you can magic up the money to match what you actually have to spend.
Comments
If May thought she could get away with not having to pretend she knew where we are heading, and making promises just to meet voters' expectations to be bribed, I guess she was wrong.
Do you think just because Corbyn got a maths student to cobble up some figures to show the policies had been costed, that the leadership didn't even bother to jot down, they are worth anything more than yesterdays' chip paper?
Parties decide what they want to promise, then make the assumptions to make the figures add up. Just because you can magic up costs doesn't mean you can magic up the money to match what you actually have to spend.
The Tories made a conscious decision to focus on cutting public spending back in 2010 to reverse the investments to our public sector and infrastructure made in the previous 13 years. They were told austerity wouldn't work by pretty much all economists at the time yet went ahead anyway and have since focussed almost exclusively on cutting costs, rather than encouraging growth. All in their failed obsession with attempting to achieve a surplus.
These cuts are far in excess of what might have been a reasonable, careful balanced attempt at temporarily reducing public spending while the economy regained the ground lost in 2007-2010. They're ideological and look likely to damage some of our public services terminally.
Vote for more of the same next week but don't expect there not to more and more visable consequences year after year.
Wat Tyler: Hold up there John. I just had a thought. You know these crippling taxes and terrible work laws they've been enforcing at the point of a sword? Well haven't you considered who benefits from them?
JB: Yes, Wat - our monstrous ungodly oppressors. What should I consider?
WT: I just...you know, they do employ us. They do let us use their land. They do raise armies to expand their holdings and build such lovely palaces with the money we give them. I know we're starving and broken, but...aren't you a bit scared?
JB? Scared? This is our hour! Why do you say these things?
WT: Well, if we have things our way and stop the taxes and the work laws...maybe the King will leave?
JB: Leave?
WT: Or, idk, the barons will leave too! Go to France or something. Go on a Crusade! Who will rule us then?
JB: Um...we will?
WT: We? We are mere peasants! We need leaders, men of royal blood!
JB: What?
WT: Yes?
back to this election. My prediction is if the Labour party were to do badly enough at this election, the press will offer to support a right wing Labour leader at the next election. The establishment will see this as a close shave. So it is important, even if Labour don't win,they do better than last time. I don't want teh choice of Tory light or Tory at teh next election. I want to see a vibrant, growing, caring, fairer economy. And I know it will be an economy for rich people to flourish in, Not the super rich, but rich people who are not the enemy but wealth creators, and Labour know that. People on £80k may have to pay £400 a year more under LAbour than they do now, but how much more will they have to pay under the Tories, and if they have kids going to university, old relatives etc....
The same statement ends by referring to a "coalition of chaos".
At least I assume that's how people see it.
Looking forward to watching the debate tonight though
May wont appear because as at the last TV's Audience Q and A and the Paxman interview, she will be seen as the incompetent business suit full of fuck all that she really is.
I'm OK on Corporation Tax, but haven't a freakin' clue what you're on about. Is this some sort of Franglais you've been afflicted by??