I think May (may) be trying to play a canny game here.
I voted LEAVE but one doesn't have to be Mensa material to recognise that unravelling more than 40 years of integration or 'ever closer union' is not an immediate process or even achievable in 2 years given the complexity of so many trade agreements.
The opportunity is there post election result (assuming the Tories win of course - remember 'alriiight'Kinnock) to argue for a 'soft' rather than 'hard' Brexit on democratic grounds which would enable all sides to 'save face' following a further line being drawn.
As I've said before my interim (not necessarily in the Karel Fraye sense) stance towards Brexit is for the UK to leave the EU but remain in the EEA via EFTA until sensible negotiations can be completed.
An election victory for May might just reopen that option once more.
It might. Of course she would have to tell us this intention during the next seven or so weeks. Wouldn't she?
P'raps.
On the other hand do you give away your negotiating position before you start negotiating?
I think May (may) be trying to play a canny game here.
I voted LEAVE but one doesn't have to be Mensa material to recognise that unravelling more than 40 years of integration or 'ever closer union' is not an immediate process or even achievable in 2 years given the complexity of so many trade agreements.
The opportunity is there post election result (assuming the Tories win of course - remember 'alriiight'Kinnock) to argue for a 'soft' rather than 'hard' Brexit on democratic grounds which would enable all sides to 'save face' following a further line being drawn.
As I've said before my interim (not necessarily in the Karel Fraye sense) stance towards Brexit is for the UK to leave the EU but remain in the EEA via EFTA until sensible negotiations can be completed.
An election victory for May might just reopen that option once more.
It might. Of course she would have to tell us this intention during the next seven or so weeks. Wouldn't she?
Back in January May told us we were going to have a different relationship with the EU and, "Not partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union, or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out. We do not seek to adopt a model already enjoyed by other countries. We do not seek to hold on to bits of membership as we leave."
Then she formally binned any option of staying in the Single Market. She may do more u-turns than a black cab driver but I think if @LenGlover get his wish her career is finished so in this case I'd say it's unlikely.
But this isn't evidence of her pushing for a hard Brexit of course...
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
As someone who voted Remain, I will absolutely not be voting for someone who is completely ignoring my views and concerns, or anyone who is pushing through a Brexit that is manifestly far more extreme than the one promised by the Leave campaign.
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
As someone who voted Remain, I will absolutely not be voting for someone who is completely ignoring my views and concerns, or anyone who is pushing through a Brexit that is manifestly far more extreme than the one promised by the Leave campaign.
That's entirely fair, and I think it's patently obvious that you should vote for those who represent your concerns and feelings.
However, my response was aimed at a disingenuous comment about the caption that the BBC decided to give Theresa May on BBC News. A comment that seemed to completely miss the point of what's actually been said. Whilst I fully agree that you should vote against those who don't represent your views, I still do not think it's fair to claim that Theresa May has declared 56% of her constituents are opponents.. simply because she didn't.
Tim Farron's previous (and backwards) comments on homosexuality are already being highlighted on the BBC News front page.
Hope he stands down once he fails to win this election, he is absolutely hopeless.
I'm with you there.
This has got the potential to be a very good time for the Lib Dems if they make a shrewd appointment. It's a shame that they wont be able to capitalise on it in time for June 8th IMO.
I think those of us who want a soft Brexit are going to have to hold our noses - the thing is, we probably won't stop May winning so it won't matter who is leader of the Libs or Labour, but we have to stop her gaining the extra seats she wants! We need to send her a message that the UK voted for Brexit, not to cut itself adrift!
I would hope that we look for candidates who support a soft Brexit - whether they are Tory, Labour or Liberal and vote accordingly! An oustide voice is going to have to lead us in that direction. That could mix things up a bit!
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
Due to the fact that it came completely out the blue and there's no cast reason to have called it I've got a theory that she called it to knock something else of the headlines. North Korea possibly??
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
As someone who voted Remain, I will absolutely not be voting for someone who is completely ignoring my views and concerns, or anyone who is pushing through a Brexit that is manifestly far more extreme than the one promised by the Leave campaign.
That's entirely fair, and I think it's patently obvious that you should vote for those who represent your concerns and feelings.
However, my response was aimed at a disingenuous comment about the caption that the BBC decided to give Theresa May on BBC News. A comment that seemed to completely miss the point of what's actually been said. Whilst I fully agree that you should vote against those who don't represent your views, I still do not think it's fair to claim that Theresa May has declared 56% of her constituents are opponents.. simply because she didn't.
True, can't disagree with that. Plenty of Remain voters have said that the vote has happened and we should leave the EU accordingly. Honouring the result, regardless of how surreptitiously it was obtained, is more important to them than carrying on the fight to remain in the EU.
My concern is that a lot of people who voted Remain have switched off and are not taking notice of what is actually happening on the Brexit front though. None of the visions or promises made by the Leave campaign, beyond actually withdrawing from the EU, are materialising. As such no person who voted Remain should be voting for Theresa May or any politician who is supporting her or giving her carte blanche to proceed with her vision of Brexit. It is very clear that Theresa May has absolutely no intention of considering the concerns and fears of honest, hardworking people who will be hit the hardest by Brexit and were sold a false vision of a post-Brexit UK. Even if May does not consider them to be the enemy, she might as well for all she is doing. In the same way palm oil producers do not consider the rainforest to by the enemy but doesn't stop them from destroying them.
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
As someone who voted Remain, I will absolutely not be voting for someone who is completely ignoring my views and concerns, or anyone who is pushing through a Brexit that is manifestly far more extreme than the one promised by the Leave campaign.
That's entirely fair, and I think it's patently obvious that you should vote for those who represent your concerns and feelings.
However, my response was aimed at a disingenuous comment about the caption that the BBC decided to give Theresa May on BBC News. A comment that seemed to completely miss the point of what's actually been said. Whilst I fully agree that you should vote against those who don't represent your views, I still do not think it's fair to claim that Theresa May has declared 56% of her constituents are opponents.. simply because she didn't.
True, can't disagree with that. Plenty of Remain voters have said that the vote has happened and we should leave the EU accordingly. Honouring the result, regardless of how surreptitiously it was obtained, is more important to them than carrying on the fight to remain in the EU.
My concern is that a lot of people who voted Remain have switched off and are not taking notice of what is actually happening on the Brexit front though. None of the visions or promises made by the Leave campaign, beyond actually withdrawing from the EU, are materialising. As such no person who voted Remain should be voting for Theresa May or any politician who is supporting her or giving her carte blanche to proceed with her vision of Brexit.
Your bias is a little unsettling.
These visions and promises made by the leave campaign, why did you believe they were in any position to give them? The leave campaign, as was the case with the remain campaign, were a bunch of MP's and celebrities banging on about something they couldn't even deliver!!
BOTH sides made forecasts & promises they could not forsee or hope to keep. Neither had a mandate to deliver on anything.
The whole election from BOTH sides was mis-informed and lacked any clarity.
The biggest mistake made was not enough time being given for some sort of body to consult and set out the preferred positions for either side and actually produce some facts rather than the constant scare mongering, which would've driven people to vote either way.
I don't really see the issue with her stance to be quite honest.
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
As someone who voted Remain, I will absolutely not be voting for someone who is completely ignoring my views and concerns, or anyone who is pushing through a Brexit that is manifestly far more extreme than the one promised by the Leave campaign.
That's entirely fair, and I think it's patently obvious that you should vote for those who represent your concerns and feelings.
However, my response was aimed at a disingenuous comment about the caption that the BBC decided to give Theresa May on BBC News. A comment that seemed to completely miss the point of what's actually been said. Whilst I fully agree that you should vote against those who don't represent your views, I still do not think it's fair to claim that Theresa May has declared 56% of her constituents are opponents.. simply because she didn't.
True, can't disagree with that. Plenty of Remain voters have said that the vote has happened and we should leave the EU accordingly. Honouring the result, regardless of how surreptitiously it was obtained, is more important to them than carrying on the fight to remain in the EU.
My concern is that a lot of people who voted Remain have switched off and are not taking notice of what is actually happening on the Brexit front though. None of the visions or promises made by the Leave campaign, beyond actually withdrawing from the EU, are materialising. As such no person who voted Remain should be voting for Theresa May or any politician who is supporting her or giving her carte blanche to proceed with her vision of Brexit.
Your bias is a little unsettling.
These visions and promises made by the leave campaign, why did you believe they were in any position to give them? The leave campaign, as was the case with the remain campaign, were a bunch of MP's and celebrities banging on about something they couldn't even deliver!!
BOTH sides made forecasts & promises they could not forsee or hope to keep. Neither had a mandate to deliver on anything.
The whole election from BOTH sides was mis-informed and lacked any clarity.
The biggest mistake made was not enough time being given for some sort of body to consult and set out the preferred positions for either side and actually produce some facts rather than the constant scare mongering, which would've driven people to vote either way.
The lies and misrepresentations came from one side only. It has been demonstrated again and again. No matter how many times you and other Brexit supporters say otherwise it will not change that fact.
These visions and promises made by the leave campaign, why did you believe they were in any position to give them? The leave campaign, as was the case with the remain campaign, were a bunch of MP's and celebrities banging on about something they couldn't even deliver!!
BOTH sides made forecasts & promises they could not forsee or hope to keep. Neither had a mandate to deliver on anything.
The whole election from BOTH sides was mis-informed and lacked any clarity.
The biggest mistake made was not enough time being given for some sort of body to consult and set out the preferred positions for either side and actually produce some facts rather than the constant scare mongering, which would've driven people to vote either way.
I have opinions, yes, not sure why you would find that unsettling (do you find the blatantly anti-EU or anti-immigrant posts on here unsettling too, or just those expressing views you disagree with?).
I'm pretty sure the Remain campaign could deliver on their promise, to remain in the EU. Funny how all the Brexiteers stopped banging on about scaremongering and Project Fear when it became apparent most of the negative consequences predicted for voting Leave were coming to fruition in some form or another.
What lies or false promises were made by the Remain campaign? That can definitely be proven to be false?
Pretty sure the Remain campaign had plenty of clarity - a booklet informing voters of the factual benefits of being in the EU was sent to every household in the country. Vote Leave put lies on a bus and stood in front of billboards of refugees claiming a swarm was coming.
The vote is simple on june 9th do you want May, Corbyn, Farron, as your pm... I hate the tories but which one makes a better pm. I cant remember a worse set of politicians in my lifetime.
I'm not as clued up on politics as many on here but my early prediction is as follows
Lower turnout than 2015 due to apathy Labour voters not being able to vote for their party Tories thinking they will win by a landslide so not bothering Minor party voters coming out in force
Much higher protest vote, expect the lib dems or greens to get more votes if not seats
May winning but nowhere near the sort of levels predicted
Opinion polls to probably get it wrong again on many levels
Without a doubt plenty of people on both sides of the fence myself included that could never ever vote red or blue so will be a very important election
The vote is simple on june 9th do you want May, Corbyn, Farron, as your pm... I hate the tories but which one makes a better pm. I cant remember a worse set of politicians in my lifetime.
When you put it that way, anything other than a Conservative vote is insane unless you get someone like Ummuna to assassinate Corbyn (probably literally given the grip he has on the labour party) and then take leadership. Then you have something of a competition.
But no smart Labour politician would want it this time round, which is why you get no marks like Corbyn in the first place, because no one of credit wanted to blow their one shot putting their hat in the ring against him in the past 2 leadership elections..
Comments
Imagine....
On the other hand do you give away your negotiating position before you start negotiating?
Then she formally binned any option of staying in the Single Market. She may do more u-turns than a black cab driver but I think if @LenGlover get his wish her career is finished so in this case I'd say it's unlikely.
But this isn't evidence of her pushing for a hard Brexit of course...
Those who oppose Brexit are indeed "Brexit opponents". I sincerely doubt that she was talking about the public anyway, as it's far more likely that shes talking about those MPs who have said they will impede the process wherever possible.
This is exactly how the sentiment she used to respond to Yvette Cooper in the clip you shared this morning.
UK Government Guidance: https://www.gov.uk/voting-when-abroad
Hope he stands down once he fails to win this election, he is absolutely hopeless.
However, my response was aimed at a disingenuous comment about the caption that the BBC decided to give Theresa May on BBC News. A comment that seemed to completely miss the point of what's actually been said. Whilst I fully agree that you should vote against those who don't represent your views, I still do not think it's fair to claim that Theresa May has declared 56% of her constituents are opponents.. simply because she didn't.
This has got the potential to be a very good time for the Lib Dems if they make a shrewd appointment. It's a shame that they wont be able to capitalise on it in time for June 8th IMO.
I would hope that we look for candidates who support a soft Brexit - whether they are Tory, Labour or Liberal and vote accordingly! An oustide voice is going to have to lead us in that direction. That could mix things up a bit!
My concern is that a lot of people who voted Remain have switched off and are not taking notice of what is actually happening on the Brexit front though. None of the visions or promises made by the Leave campaign, beyond actually withdrawing from the EU, are materialising. As such no person who voted Remain should be voting for Theresa May or any politician who is supporting her or giving her carte blanche to proceed with her vision of Brexit. It is very clear that Theresa May has absolutely no intention of considering the concerns and fears of honest, hardworking people who will be hit the hardest by Brexit and were sold a false vision of a post-Brexit UK. Even if May does not consider them to be the enemy, she might as well for all she is doing. In the same way palm oil producers do not consider the rainforest to by the enemy but doesn't stop them from destroying them.
These visions and promises made by the leave campaign, why did you believe they were in any position to give them? The leave campaign, as was the case with the remain campaign, were a bunch of MP's and celebrities banging on about something they couldn't even deliver!!
BOTH sides made forecasts & promises they could not forsee or hope to keep. Neither had a mandate to deliver on anything.
The whole election from BOTH sides was mis-informed and lacked any clarity.
The biggest mistake made was not enough time being given for some sort of body to consult and set out the preferred positions for either side and actually produce some facts rather than the constant scare mongering, which would've driven people to vote either way.
I'm pretty sure the Remain campaign could deliver on their promise, to remain in the EU. Funny how all the Brexiteers stopped banging on about scaremongering and Project Fear when it became apparent most of the negative consequences predicted for voting Leave were coming to fruition in some form or another.
What lies or false promises were made by the Remain campaign? That can definitely be proven to be false?
Pretty sure the Remain campaign had plenty of clarity - a booklet informing voters of the factual benefits of being in the EU was sent to every household in the country. Vote Leave put lies on a bus and stood in front of billboards of refugees claiming a swarm was coming.
*grabs political popcorn*
Hoo boy what a Wednesday night this is going to be!
Lower turnout than 2015 due to apathy
Labour voters not being able to vote for their party
Tories thinking they will win by a landslide so not bothering
Minor party voters coming out in force
Much higher protest vote, expect the lib dems or greens to get more votes if not seats
May winning but nowhere near the sort of levels predicted
Opinion polls to probably get it wrong again on many levels
Without a doubt plenty of people on both sides of the fence myself included that could never ever vote red or blue so will be a very important election
Interesting times
But no smart Labour politician would want it this time round, which is why you get no marks like Corbyn in the first place, because no one of credit wanted to blow their one shot putting their hat in the ring against him in the past 2 leadership elections..