Does this mean corbyn ain't in and my corporation tax is staying down
Yes. Enjoy the strong and stable economy that the Tories will deliver over the next few weeks or months until the next election.
It clearly won't be, but I suspect NLA will enjoy it more than having to offload some of his workforce
BUT for small businesses Labour were offering assistance for the rise in corporation tax by offsetting other taxes that the same company would pay, why dont people know this......?
@Fiiish will know this - what percentage of Parliament needs to agree to (another) election under the Fixed Term Parliament Act?
Am I right in thinking that, for the first time, it could be the opposition parties who will, in effect, decide whether there will be a snap election.
If the House resolves a no confidence vote in the Government and it is not overturned within 14 days then a snap election can be called. This is a simple majority.
Thanks. But what's the situation when there isn't a vote of no confidence? I am sure I remember there's another way for the government to determine a snap election. I think there's a 67% majority or something..?
@Fiiish will know this - what percentage of Parliament needs to agree to (another) election under the Fixed Term Parliament Act?
Am I right in thinking that, for the first time, it could be the opposition parties who will, in effect, decide whether there will be a snap election.
If the House resolves a no confidence vote in the Government and it is not overturned within 14 days then a snap election can be called. This is a simple majority.
Thanks. But what's the situation when there isn't a vote of no confidence? I am sure I remember there's another way for the government to determine a snap election. I think there's a 67% majority or something..?
Yeah, if 2 thirds of the House agree too. I think that's how this snap election was called?
Aren't Tory voters demanding more soldiers, more cops, more border patrols and want to leave the EU but they don't want to pay for it? Sounds like only Tory voters are demanding more stuff without anything to pay for it.
In a sea of analysis and statistics, I thought this from Sky Data was interesting: 59%
Age 18-34 Labour 63% Conservative 27%
Age 35-54 Labour 43% Conservative 43%
Age 55+ Labour 23% Conservative 59%
There is obviously a number of ways in which to interpret that set of data, but one would be that the Conservative/Labour traditional split is no longer rich vs poor, but young vs old.
Mrs May did not refer directly to the fact her party had failed to form a majority government, or to any of its losses last night.
In her brief statement, she said her party would "put fairness and opportunity at the heart of everything we do". She also promised to:
Over the next five years, build a country in which no one and no community is left behind. A country in which prosperity and opportunity are shared right across this UK.
Mrs May said the Conservatives and DUP would work together "in the interests of the whole United Kingdom".
This will allow us to come together as a country and channel our energies towards a successful Brexit deal that works for everyone in this country, securing a new partnership with the EU which guarantees our long-term prosperity.
That's what people voted for last June, that's what we will deliver. Now let's get to work.
The deluded opportunist at it again. No mention of strong and stable though.
I really don't want the f*cking DUP working in my interests thank you very much.
Rob, I don't think you can just look at this result in terms of absolute number of seats. There's so much subtext to this. From the start I said anything but an increase in their majority would be a failure for the Tories, a loss of seats would be a disaster but what we actually got was verging on one of the biggest fuck ups in political history. Sure, they're still in power, just but for me it's all about momentum.
When this election was announced how many honestly thought it would end up like this? Corbyn was so far behind that Labour not being wiped off the political map altogether was being seen by some as doing well.
Labour still lost the election, that can't be ignored but it isn't what was important here. We all felt that the Tories would win but in losing the election Labour still won. I guess you could say lost the battle to win the war but we will have to wait and see how the war pans out.
I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the results itself in comparison to what has come before. I've said a few times this morning that the Conservatives royally messed up, utter utter failure and Labour did well - both from where they were, but even in those circumstances when you compare yesterday to the previous 6 elections it's not as if the country has listened to Corbyn's ideas and said 'yup that's for me' compared to previous labour leaders, he is still well short of a majority and just about joint 2nd worst election result for Labour in the last 7 elections or 25 years.
I don't honestly see in another election with the same manifesto's Labour romping home with a majority. I think Labour have a real chance though if they can move slightly more to the right of gaining power, much like Blair did (and they wouldn't have to move as far as he did).... it seems to me that there is still a core of centre people in this country that form the majority. As generations change that may too, but I don't see that for the foreseeable future. I can see more the Conservatives learning from their lessons and the next election taking a majority again if Corbyn remains, they were only 7/8 seats short under the worst election campaign known to man!
I don't care what colour a party is or what name they take, I've never had any allegiance on that basis, if either party had been slightly more central it could have been a massively different result, that's my take anyway, if you want a government that truly represents ALL the people then you need to compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. Not that I can stand the bloke in the end but that's effectively what Blair did in 1997 with 418 seats and again in 2001, how many leaders can say they had that much of a majority? As per usual those seeking election need to listen to what the people want, sadly they rarely do as 'they know better'.
I don't agree it is too left wing at all and I think a 40% vote share shows this. A you gov poll just before the election suggested that 40% of respondents thought Corbyn unelectable due to his past IRA links. That is a huge number to overcome and there is a whole generation that hates him. He has shown the labour party that platform is potentially electable under a different leader.
Answering a question on Corbyn and the IRA doesn't mean that aside you would vote for everything else or someone else with the same policies.
I'm banking on one more year of tax cuts for the rich and then another election, Corbyn gets in, my daughter gets free uni education and I can retire on an enhanced state pension
No, but come on mate the conservatives knew what they were doing. With FPTP you only need 30% of the vote and they have just wiped out 40% of the pool. The policies have polled well for months, normally a majority in favour, long before the election was called. They only lost popularity when Corbyn's name was attached to it.
I just meant because someone said they wouldn't vote for Corbyn due to 'X' doesn't mean they would vote for a different person with the same manifesto. The flip side works, just look on here the support for Corbyn and allegedly all around the country. One could argue if he goes the labour vote would. E dramatically worse?
I agree it is no guarantee, but the policies were populist long before the election. This is about direction and what the labour party thought was electable rather than the leader and trust within that individual. To be elected the Labour party will always have to find an individual that is charismatic and trusted by the public as increasingly it decides elections, especially as FPTP can be so cynically exploited.
People keep talking about how Blair made Labour electable in the 90's but that was the 90's and that was how Labour need to change then. I disagree fundamentally with you about how elections will revert back to low turn outs in certain demographics, even. This is the election they can turn to and say that youth and the disaffected actually made a difference. They stopped a Tory majority much like the Valley party lost Labour seats. Moving forward voter registration/turn-out is key and the left have already realised this at this election.
Blair was needed at the time, Corbyn in many ways is what we needed now. I think he shall ever remain one of my favourite politicians, not because he is the most inspiring or competent, but because he has humanised politics again. Here is a genuine, thoughtful, principled man, everything we should look for in our leaders. You might not agree with him but you actually know what he believes in. He has also shown people you can engage the disaffected and the young in politics if act in manner for the people, something most of the house has forgotten.
Totally agree on the young, having worked with young adults most of my own adult life it's always disappointed me how disengaged they are (to be fair, so was I aged 18, 26 years ago). We'll see if they stay engaged.
My daughter was just slightly too young to vote much to her annoyance, but a lot of her peers weren't and certainly did vote. They debated the election a lot at school, her form of 27, 25 said they were (or if they could) would vote Labour and the vast majority simply because of the no Uni fee's point as it was pretty much the only thing that they felt would effect them.
Does this mean corbyn ain't in and my corporation tax is staying down
Yes. Enjoy the strong and stable economy that the Tories will deliver over the next few weeks or months until the next election.
It clearly won't be, but I suspect NLA will enjoy it more than having to offload some of his workforce
BUT for small businesses Labour were offering assistance for the rise in corporation tax by offsetting other taxes that the same company would pay, why dont people know this......?
Everything that labour proposed were of no benefit to me or many of those who i regularly meet who own small businesses
It's a complete load of nonsense and even when asked during the live debate he never even answered it himself all he said was some nonsense about everyone being better off when we spread and share if he had any plans to help counter that then why didn't he say it on the debate
Aren't Tory voters demanding more soldiers, more cops, more border patrols and want to leave the EU but they don't want to pay for it? Sounds like only Tory voters are demanding more stuff without anything to pay for it.
For some reason they've also just added more balaclavas and more Molotov cocktails to that list, no-one is sure why.
Aren't Tory voters demanding more soldiers, more cops, more border patrols and want to leave the EU but they don't want to pay for it? Sounds like only Tory voters are demanding more stuff without anything to pay for it.
Yeah but labour voters haven't made a picture up yet if they do and I find it funny I will post it here and say this made me laugh too
"Labour voters just want free stuff" is incredibly condescending. Sure, that free tutition pledge was inviting (not that I'll benefit personally) but it was incredibly far down my list of reasons for voting Corbyn behind:
-restoring some dignity into the nhs -getting extra police out on our streets -getting the richest to pay a fair share -renationalising industries so the profit comes back to the taxpayer -retentition of the triple lock
I'm sure there's more but that's off the top of my head.
Does this mean corbyn ain't in and my corporation tax is staying down
Yes. Enjoy the strong and stable economy that the Tories will deliver over the next few weeks or months until the next election.
It clearly won't be, but I suspect NLA will enjoy it more than having to offload some of his workforce
BUT for small businesses Labour were offering assistance for the rise in corporation tax by offsetting other taxes that the same company would pay, why dont people know this......?
Everything that labour proposed were of no benefit to me or many of those who i regularly meet who own small businesses
It's a complete load of nonsense and even when asked during the live debate he never even answered it himself all he said was some nonsense about everyone being better off when we spread and share if he had any plans to help counter that then why didn't he say it on the debate
Sorry NLA in the live debate the Q was asked about small businesses and Corp Tax, and JC gave the answer that I gave earlier. Labour are after big business not small businesses.
Funny. Especially when you think how upset thousands of Tories up and down the country were when the suggestion was made in the Tory manifesto that they might not be entitled to free, tax payer funded health care in the event they fall prey to dementia.
This thread has been outstanding - am going to miss it...
Can't we open one on the German election or something?
I am up for it @newyorkaddick but I could just as easily vote for Merkels one nation CDUism as I could for the SPD, so we might not be poles apart on what we think.
Could we possibly keep it a secret from the Johnny-come-lately right wing snowflakes* who seem to have joined this thread today though as I much prefer reasoned debate to talking shite.
*Honourable exception to Covered End.
@newyorkaddick looks like we won't need to do the German election now.
@Fiiish will know this - what percentage of Parliament needs to agree to (another) election under the Fixed Term Parliament Act?
Am I right in thinking that, for the first time, it could be the opposition parties who will, in effect, decide whether there will be a snap election.
If the House resolves a no confidence vote in the Government and it is not overturned within 14 days then a snap election can be called. This is a simple majority.
Thanks. But what's the situation when there isn't a vote of no confidence? I am sure I remember there's another way for the government to determine a snap election. I think there's a 67% majority or something..?
Yeah, if 2 thirds of the House agree too. I think that's how this snap election was called?
So, one potential scenario is 1. Disaffected Tory backbenchers demanding May quits. 2. May not quitting. 3. Tory backbenchers calling for another election unless she goes. 4. May still not quitting. 5. Tory backbenchers demanding another General Election. 5. Labour deciding against it.
It seems like the Conservatives have stumbled into a similar wreck that Labour has just stumbled out of.
Let's be honest, the only reason this wasn't a total disaster and not just a cock up for the Tories was the amount of seats they gained in Scotland. They got consumed by the youth vote in England and Wales.
A lot of Scots must be kicking themselves this morning.
Let's be honest, the only reason this wasn't a total disaster and not just a cock up for the Tories was the amount of seats they gained in Scotland. They got consumed by the youth vote in England and Wales.
A lot of Scots must be kicking themselves this morning.
Scotland forcing the rest of the country to be ruled by Tories. We should call for an independence vote.
Mate I watched it I was waiting for his answer to tell me what taxes he is reducing to counter that for me and there was no answer of any merit
The biggest fear for me and many of the other people I meet through the small business forums and entrepreneural forums that were attended by all three parties over the last year to discuss what help would be on offer and not one party offered any hope other than keeping the corporation rate down
If labour came in the only thing we could do would be to cut costs = lay people off Increase charges that if your customers accepted would result in people paying more at the till for items
If and it's a big If they had chosen in a few of their policies to means test who should be impacted and made it truly fairer then the swing wouldn't be that hard to make
Take the free child care announcement I'd love that for anyone who is working or training to work not just anyone being granted it
Corp tax rise was a killer for me it equated to a Huge amount of money to have to find
Canx all uni fees yet again no not everyone means test it and then offer it to those who truly can't afford it
Has anyone heard from the SNP's Jimmy Krankie today?
The SNP narrative is that they still got the biggest seat share in Scotland so they still have support of their country yada yada.
I think Scottish Labour should now be targeting those SNP seats with an anti austerity platform similar to the one Corbyn ran south of the border.
The independence referendum is dead for a generation given last night's result. Scottish Labour have a chance to make the SNP somewhat irrelevant if they get their next campaign right.
@Fiiish will know this - what percentage of Parliament needs to agree to (another) election under the Fixed Term Parliament Act?
Am I right in thinking that, for the first time, it could be the opposition parties who will, in effect, decide whether there will be a snap election.
If the House resolves a no confidence vote in the Government and it is not overturned within 14 days then a snap election can be called. This is a simple majority.
Thanks. But what's the situation when there isn't a vote of no confidence? I am sure I remember there's another way for the government to determine a snap election. I think there's a 67% majority or something..?
Yeah, if 2 thirds of the House agree too. I think that's how this snap election was called?
So, one potential scenario is 1. Disaffected Tory backbenchers demanding May quits. 2. May not quitting. 3. Tory backbenchers calling for another election unless she goes. 4. May still not quitting. 5. Tory backbenchers demanding another General Election. 5. Labour deciding against it.
It seems like the Conservatives have stumbled into a similar wreck that Labour has just stumbled out of.
The irony is rather delicious, not to mention the obvious irony regarding the current coalition partners.
If it goes down to a vote of no confidence, and the Conservative Party membership get to vote in a leadership election (i.e as they should've, if an opponent to May was held internally) then I will assume May will be destroyed. Personally speaking, I was raging throughout most of the election campaign at just how poor she was performing, and I do not blame any undecided/floating voters for being dissuaded.
She was useless as home secretary, she's been a poor prime minister, she's a robotic campaigner, and she's a dire electioneer.
Mate I watched it I was waiting for his answer to tell me what taxes he is reducing to counter that for me and there was no answer of any merit
The biggest fear for me and many of the other people I meet through the small business forums and entrepreneural forums that were attended by all three parties over the last year to discuss what help would be on offer and not one party offered any hope other than keeping the corporation rate down
If labour came in the only thing we could do would be to cut costs = lay people off Increase charges that if your customers accepted would result in people paying more at the till for items
If and it's a big If they had chosen in a few of their policies to means test who should be impacted and made it truly fairer then the swing wouldn't be that hard to make
Take the free child care announcement I'd love that for anyone who is working or training to work not just anyone being granted it
Corp tax rise was a killer for me it equated to a Huge amount of money to have to find
Canx all uni fees yet again no not everyone means test it and then offer it to those who truly can't afford it
This thread has been outstanding - am going to miss it...
Can't we open one on the German election or something?
I am up for it @newyorkaddick but I could just as easily vote for Merkels one nation CDUism as I could for the SPD, so we might not be poles apart on what we think.
Could we possibly keep it a secret from the Johnny-come-lately right wing snowflakes* who seem to have joined this thread today though as I much prefer reasoned debate to talking shite.
*Honourable exception to Covered End.
@newyorkaddick looks like we won't need to do the German election now.
Indeed -what a mess!
However could be the best thing for the country if it leads to compromise and another election effectively a referendum on the (then better known) Brexit terms.
Comments
Age 18-34
Labour 63%
Conservative 27%
Age 35-54
Labour 43%
Conservative 43%
Age 55+
Labour 23%
Conservative 59%
There is obviously a number of ways in which to interpret that set of data, but one would be that the Conservative/Labour traditional split is no longer rich vs poor, but young vs old.
My daughter was just slightly too young to vote much to her annoyance, but a lot of her peers weren't and certainly did vote. They debated the election a lot at school, her form of 27, 25 said they were (or if they could) would vote Labour and the vast majority simply because of the no Uni fee's point as it was pretty much the only thing that they felt would effect them.
It's a complete load of nonsense and even when asked during the live debate he never even answered it himself all he said was some nonsense about everyone being better off when we spread and share if he had any plans to help counter that then why didn't he say it on the debate
Yeah but labour voters haven't made a picture up yet if they do and I find it funny I will post it here and say this made me laugh too
-restoring some dignity into the nhs
-getting extra police out on our streets
-getting the richest to pay a fair share
-renationalising industries so the profit comes back to the taxpayer
-retentition of the triple lock
I'm sure there's more but that's off the top of my head.
It seems like the Conservatives have stumbled into a similar wreck that Labour has just stumbled out of.
A lot of Scots must be kicking themselves this morning.
The biggest fear for me and many of the other people I meet through the small business forums and entrepreneural forums that were attended by all three parties over the last year to discuss what help would be on offer and not one party offered any hope other than keeping the corporation rate down
If labour came in the only thing we could do would be to cut costs = lay people off
Increase charges that if your customers accepted would result in people paying more at the till for items
If and it's a big If they had chosen in a few of their policies to means test who should be impacted and made it truly fairer then the swing wouldn't be that hard to make
Take the free child care announcement I'd love that for anyone who is working or training to work not just anyone being granted it
Corp tax rise was a killer for me it equated to a Huge amount of money to have to find
Canx all uni fees yet again no not everyone means test it and then offer it to those who truly can't afford it
I think Scottish Labour should now be targeting those SNP seats with an anti austerity platform similar to the one Corbyn ran south of the border.
The independence referendum is dead for a generation given last night's result. Scottish Labour have a chance to make the SNP somewhat irrelevant if they get their next campaign right.
If it goes down to a vote of no confidence, and the Conservative Party membership get to vote in a leadership election (i.e as they should've, if an opponent to May was held internally) then I will assume May will be destroyed. Personally speaking, I was raging throughout most of the election campaign at just how poor she was performing, and I do not blame any undecided/floating voters for being dissuaded.
She was useless as home secretary, she's been a poor prime minister, she's a robotic campaigner, and she's a dire electioneer.
However could be the best thing for the country if it leads to compromise and another election effectively a referendum on the (then better known) Brexit terms.