"Labour plans to increase the main rate of corporation tax, reaching 26 per cent by 2020-21, but to reintroduce the ‘small profits rate’ for small businesses. This would apply to companies with annual profits below £300k and would be set at 20%, rising to 21% in 2020-21."
Yes and the Labour manifesto said this Would raise 6.5bn. And used this to 'fund' the rest of their pledges. However the IMF estimated it wouldn't raise any money and HMRC said it would raise a maximum of 100m.
It's not all singing and dancing as much as I want it to be.
This is a massive error by May - it would have been better for her to just demand the DUP supported her, but the fact there has been a deal means there has been a price. This never works well for the governing party.
Always get nervous when I hear politicians talking about religion. Religion should have no place in governance, nothing scarier than hearing a politician telling us god is guiding their decision making!
This is a massive error by May - it would have been better for her to just demand the DUP supported her, but the fact there has been a deal means there has been a price. This never works well for the governing party.
Mutts to be honest I think she's been so cavalier since she got given the leadership, I think she's finally realised demanding and telling won't get her what she wanted etc
I'm very, very ignorant on the whole of the history behind Ireland and Nothern Ireland, but it's my understanding from speaking to colleagues that the DUP aren't too far off the Tories in their ideology. This seems like a logical union that will happen regardless of demands etc
Always get nervous when I hear politicians talking about religion. Religion should have no place in governance, nothing scarier than hearing a politician telling us god is guiding their decision making!
Totally agree - always amazes me that we still have an established Church of England.
Always get nervous when I hear politicians talking about religion. Religion should have no place in governance, nothing scarier than hearing a politician telling us god is guiding their decision making!
I tend to agree but I think here she is making the point that it is a same-sex marriage, something that won't go down well with some people in the DUP.
Will freely admit I'm neither educated nor particularly intelligent, so looking to take on board the views of others.
Where it comes to socialism, and the strapline 'for the many not the few' (which I think people massively bought into), isn't the fact that unemployment is at the lowest levels since 1975 not the best possible aspect of providing a platform and opportunities for all?
The Labour party needs to get some centrist players into the fold.
Agree.
How labour move forward from this is massive. No infighting and the centrist power players uniting under corbyn could see real force.
Unfortunately, the centrists turned their backs on corbyn during the repeated lynchings and I think this will not go unpunished.
But Corbyn is far left and that is what rising numbers of people are apparently voting for, so why should they change?
What's all this 'far left' bit, please? How about a reaction to the utter shit that we have endured for decades? Let's call it 'Socialism' and explore its benefits. Why couch Corbyn and Co. in negatives? Accentuate the positives; they are numerous. Don't bleat 'What are they, then?' The path, and the 'answers' are obvious.
You can term it how you like, far left or socialism. But It's not centre and it's not right so it's somewhere left!
I think we are in danger of getting away with ourselves especially if you are comparing this result to the last couple of decades. The actual election process has been really interesting, fantastic that the younger voters seem to be engaged and have turned out, a massive plus and probably were key to how the vote ended.
But we need to put results in perspective rather than just how they have improved or worsened since an election 2 years ago which was a disaster for Labour and the Lib Dems, fantastic for SNP and UKIP (in vote count if not in seats) and pretty good for Conservatives as it gave them an increase to take them to a majority.
So Labour has roughly the same number of seats as it had in 2010 which was cited a disaster at the time, yet this time around it's the second coming, a wave of change, a new movement etc etc. Still nearly 60 short of the Conservatives and still less than they had in 1992.
Conservatives have managed to screw up compared to where they were but still have more seats than they did in 2010 under the last coalition and more than any other election pre 2015 since 1992.
I think we are getting caught up in the moment of May royally screwing up and Corbyn doing considerably better than expected rather than the actual picture/political landscape.
Labour still have nearly 100 less seats than in 2005 when they were last in power. Corbyn has been a success compared to where he was and May a failure (from where she was), but Labour are still massively short of being anywhere near being an elected government and I don't think that will change under Corbyn, he's simply too far left (or socialist!).
So I'm sure Labour are patting themselves on the back of a job well done, and probably rightly so, but don't kid yourself that this is some kind of landmark moment that will change the next 20 years. Charlton finished 13th in the table when it looked for a long time it could be 19th or worse, does that make last season a roaring success because of an improvement at the end? Or did it simply end better than what many of us expected.......?
Just a thought, but did some of the voters in prosperous areas vote Labour because they genuinely want Corbyn or did they vote for him as a protest against May's dismal campaign and manifesto and Brexit, thinking that the Tories would still win? If Kensington goes Labour that would be astonishing, yes there are poor areas, but most of the inhabitants are filthy rich, and not champagne socialist types either
Similarly, did some of the Scottish voters strategically vote Tory as a message to the SNP, thinking that the result of the general election was a foregone conclusion anyway?
If there was another election soon, I wonder if some of the shock results from last night will change as people vote against who they don't want in power?
This is a massive error by May - it would have been better for her to just demand the DUP supported her, but the fact there has been a deal means there has been a price. This never works well for the governing party.
Mutts to be honest I think she's been so cavalier since she got given the leadership, I think she's finally realised demanding and telling won't get her what she wanted etc
I'm very, very ignorant on the whole of the history behind Ireland and Nothern Ireland, but it's my understanding from speaking to colleagues that the DUP aren't too far off the Tories in their ideology. This seems like a logical union that will happen regardless of demands etc
Correct me if I've got it wrong
I trust @NornIrishAddick 's opinion and he seems to suggest there's a bit more to be worried about regarding the DUP.
Ultimately we need a government. If nothing more to see us through the next few months until we have another election once the Tories have decided on another leader.
This seems to be the only want anyone can form a government.
Why do the Conservatives prefer to give the DUP whatever they want instead of being a minority government? Minority government is very common in Europe.
Stormont won't open while the DUP can control it from Westminster.
The tories have essentially been quietly propped up by the DUP since the end of the coalition. There have been a few parliamentary votes where DUP have abstained or voted with the tories to ensure that the tory working majority has been maintained. The DUP's "loyalty" ensures they won't actively impair the business of Westminster government. With Sinn Fein's permanent absence from Westminster the next tory PM won't realistically have many problems doing what he/she likes. DUP's position on the welfare state in general and senior care in particular is at odds with the nasty party's which should keep the brakes on the tories viler ambitions, for a little while at least. But the DUP is unlikely to garner a long list of significant or troubling favours from tory central office. We are surely through the looking glass when Ian Paisley's political party serves as a moderating influence in Westminster. In case any were needed, this all further serves to highlight the depths of ineptitude and self-destruction to which the labour party has sunk in failing, even this time, to muster itself into a credible opposition.
Hmm, so if the DUP were needed to hold together a Conservative majority when the Conservatives already held a majority of the seats, what will happen if they have a problem under the new arrangement, with even less room?
It's naive to think that the DUP don't have a price. Stormont is closed largely because of DUP corruption. Now they get to run Northern Ireland without the power sharing that Stormont would have enforced. It's hard to see Stormont opening again until the DUP are out of government. Maybe their price will be that Northern Ireland is kept immune from the Conservatives' planned changes.
It shows May's ineptness at negotiation that she was unable or unwilling to negotiate an arrangement with the Lib Dems or SNP, or to set up a minority government. This incompetence has led her to a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. This is the person and party who will negotiate on the country's behalf?
The Conservatives are of course the largest party and it is right that they should lead the government, but this arrangement is a mess.
Take your point @Rob7Lee but as sad as it is, someone on 15k will feel that lost £100 far more than someone on 100k who lost £1000.
But isn't that the point of our progressive tax system? On your argument the person on £100k would feel that loss far more than someone on £1m who has to pay £10k, is that fair? Someone on £20k is already paying less than in 2010 whereas the person on £100k is already paying more......
I'd take a view that someone on £100k probably has no more disposable cash than someone on £75k, they'll just have a bigger mortgage, council tax etc.
"Labour voters just want free stuff" is incredibly condescending. Sure, that free tutition pledge was inviting (not that I'll benefit personally) but it was incredibly far down my list of reasons for voting Corbyn behind:
-restoring some dignity into the nhs -getting extra police out on our streets -getting the richest to pay a fair share -renationalising industries so the profit comes back to the taxpayer -retentition of the triple lock
I'm sure there's more but that's off the top of my head.
Genuine question,
At what level do you place 'the richest' and what do you feel is a fair share?
I think what Labour set out was about right. 80k and above.
By no means am I lumping those people in with the very richest, that's reserved for the top 1% or fewer who have got away with it for years.
I don't think it was unreasonable to ask those on 80k and above to pay a couple hundred quid a year more in tax so we don't have a food bank crisis and we don't have little kids sleeping on chairs as a makeshift beds in the NHS.
On my 2009/2010 tax return I paid in total 41.1% in Tax On my 2016/2017 tax return I paid in total 47.3% in Tax
Had Labour got in and implemented their taxation plans (and I had done nothing) the 47.3 would have gone to around 50%
So Labour were going to put your income tax up by less than the Tories have?
Lol.....
Apparently yes although I never believed it would stop there, yet they still hark on that it's the conservatives giving the tax breaks it was of course to be cumulative,
I think it is unhelpful to dwell on the terrorist sympathiser angle, but I am mindful what furore there would be if Corbyn did a deal with Sinn Fein - which he hasn't and wouldn't do. The way round this was to form a minority government with no deal. DUP must have blackmailed her because I am sure that would have been the default position. Over time this will not play out well for the Tories and May. That is an honest appraisal rather than wishful thinking. I'm sure she is rehearsing the excuses for later now.
There is no way that May could have negotiated an arrangment with any other party, even if she was the worlds best negotiator, not the terrible one she actually is.
Always get nervous when I hear politicians talking about religion. Religion should have no place in governance, nothing scarier than hearing a politician telling us god is guiding their decision making!
Isn't that what we're getting with the DUP calling the shots?
How long is a piece of string? - if they last 5 years it will be a miracle. They need to last long enough to turn the Tory brand completely toxic as I'd rather have an election in 18 months with the right result than one in four or five with more doubt about it! May clinging on to power will not sit well either I predict.
has anyone seen anything about this deal? All I can see is that they have spoken, their leader said "had spoken to Mrs May and that they would speak further to explore how it may be possible to bring stability to this nation at this time of great challenge"
Can't see anything about a deal and it also spoke of "It is thought Mrs May will seek some kind of informal arrangement with the DUP that could see it "lend" its support to the Tories on a vote-by-vote basis, known as confidence and supply".
Always get nervous when I hear politicians talking about religion. Religion should have no place in governance, nothing scarier than hearing a politician telling us god is guiding their decision making!
Isn't that what we're getting with the DUP calling the shots?
I thought that was the point he was making. I've been trying to learn about the DUP and some of the things their party stand for and it's hugely influenced by the sort of Christian fundamentalism normally reserved for American politics.
This is a massive error by May - it would have been better for her to just demand the DUP supported her, but the fact there has been a deal means there has been a price. This never works well for the governing party.
Mutts to be honest I think she's been so cavalier since she got given the leadership, I think she's finally realised demanding and telling won't get her what she wanted etc
I'm very, very ignorant on the whole of the history behind Ireland and Nothern Ireland, but it's my understanding from speaking to colleagues that the DUP aren't too far off the Tories in their ideology. This seems like a logical union that will happen regardless of demands etc
Correct me if I've got it wrong
I trust @NornIrishAddick 's opinion and he seems to suggest there's a bit more to be worried about regarding the DUP.
Paying attention to me is always a dangerous thing to do.
However, in my opinion, the DUP are not that close a fit with the Tories.
I'd be being unfair to fruitcakes if I were to claim that some of their members were fruitcakes. There are more than a few that espouse "robust and old-fashioned" political views, though with a tendency to reject compromise.
Don't get me wrong, there are some that I think are very good, effective politicians, but they are not the majority (IMHO). Arlene Foster is not the most natural or warmest communicator, and has squandered political opportunities before now, I'm not sure she's an ideal partner.
PS I do see some mentioning that the UK Government is supposed to be neutral re: the Assembly here, difficult to manage if the DUP is in both.
I don't think people celebrating the result are celebrating for Labour necessarily, they're celebrating for the country.
I dread to think how much worse things would've got with five more Tory years - no Brexit deal, dementia tax for the old, housing crisis for the young, continual public spending cuts... The vote yesterday stopped the nasty party dead in their tracks.
We've got five more years of the Tories. They won, they are forming the new government.
They might be reined in slightly by the DUP and their small majority means so won't be able to push any old policy through but they won.
The tory manifesto was deliberately vague and covered so much ground ie fox hunting so the May would have a free hand for five years to do what she wanted. It didn't quite work and she won't be able to push fox hunting (as a example) through because only a few backbenchers can rebel but don't be in any doubt. The tories won.
I think the idea that this minority Tory administration propped up by the DUP will remain in office for 5 years is frankly fanciful.
It would be an achievement if it were to last for the duration of the remaining Article 50 Brexit process until March 2019 - let alone beyond that.
As the detail and reality of Brexit emerges between now and then the strains in the Tory party on what 'type' of Brexit will only increase and the contradictory and unrealistic approach of the DUP - pro-Brexit but somehow wanting to avoid a 'hard border' - will only add to those strains (and that's without considering all the other policy issues where detail was absent from the Tory manifesto).
I don't think people celebrating the result are celebrating for Labour necessarily, they're celebrating for the country.
I dread to think how much worse things would've got with five more Tory years - no Brexit deal, dementia tax for the old, housing crisis for the young, continual public spending cuts... The vote yesterday stopped the nasty party dead in their tracks.
We've got five more years of the Tories. They won, they are forming the new government.
They might be reined in slightly by the DUP and their small majority means so won't be able to push any old policy through but they won.
The tory manifesto was deliberately vague and covered so much ground ie fox hunting so the May would have a free hand for five years to do what she wanted. It didn't quite work and she won't be able to push fox hunting (as a example) through because only a few backbenchers can rebel but don't be in any doubt. The tories won.
I think the idea that this minority Tory administration propped up by the DUP will remain in office for 5 years is frankly fanciful.
It would be an achievement if it were to last for the duration of the remaining Article 50 Brexit process until March 2019 - let alone beyond that.
As the detail and reality of Brexit emerges between now and then the strains in the Tory party on what 'type' of Brexit will only increase and the contradictory and unrealistic approach of the DUP - pro-Brexit but somehow wanting to avoid a 'hard border' - will only add to those strains (and that's without considering all the other policy issues where detail was absent from the Tory manifesto).
We can easily have Brexit and avoid a hard border.
It is worth looking back in history for a lesson. Jim Callaghan had to rely on Northern Irish politicians to prop up his minority government. Firstly their extravigant demands were at the expense of the other home countries - he finally got fed up with it when they demanded he funded a cripplingly expensive pipeline beteween the mainland and Northern Ireland. When the deal collapsed, the endless attempts for the government to survive by any means rather than govern made the brand toxic and he got hammered in the election.
She will go surely there's no way she can stay even she knows that I am sure it's a stay of execution more than anything else
I think she will go when a challenger emerges - she's too arrogant to volunteer her resignation.
When the grandees feel the time is right they will mobilise and it's fairly straightforward to make the challenge 15% (48) Conservative MP's would need to write to the 1922 committee saying they no longer have confidence in her. Bojo will easily be able to convince 48 or more to write those letters.
How do I apply if sort this whole sorry mess out quick as and I would easily get all the lefties on here voting for me as one of my manifesto wins would be to remove two shit chalets
Theresa will be cross when she tries to have a meeting with the DUP on a Sunday, as they have strict religious views within the party about working on a Sunday (the party has its roots in Ian Paisley’s Free Presbyterian Church).
Boris has been lining up a way into number 10 for a while.
Wondering if the Tories felt that May's robotic personality affected her affinity with the younger electorate who responded to Corbyns more outward style.
Either way - May is hanging on and needs to go. Let her do the nasty of job of getting Brexit underway and then Boris comes in (I dont buy the whole Brexit Boris thing - he was remain all the way but just wanted power).
Comments
It's not all singing and dancing as much as I want it to be.
I'm very, very ignorant on the whole of the history behind Ireland and Nothern Ireland, but it's my understanding from speaking to colleagues that the DUP aren't too far off the Tories in their ideology. This seems like a logical union that will happen regardless of demands etc
Correct me if I've got it wrong
Similarly, did some of the Scottish voters strategically vote Tory as a message to the SNP, thinking that the result of the general election was a foregone conclusion anyway?
If there was another election soon, I wonder if some of the shock results from last night will change as people vote against who they don't want in power?
It's naive to think that the DUP don't have a price. Stormont is closed largely because of DUP corruption. Now they get to run Northern Ireland without the power sharing that Stormont would have enforced. It's hard to see Stormont opening again until the DUP are out of government. Maybe their price will be that Northern Ireland is kept immune from the Conservatives' planned changes.
It shows May's ineptness at negotiation that she was unable or unwilling to negotiate an arrangement with the Lib Dems or SNP, or to set up a minority government. This incompetence has led her to a coalition of chaos with terrorist sympathisers. This is the person and party who will negotiate on the country's behalf?
The Conservatives are of course the largest party and it is right that they should lead the government, but this arrangement is a mess.
I'd take a view that someone on £100k probably has no more disposable cash than someone on £75k, they'll just have a bigger mortgage, council tax etc.
Lol.....
Apparently yes although I never believed it would stop there, yet they still hark on that it's the conservatives giving the tax breaks
There is no way that May could have negotiated an arrangment with any other party, even if she was the worlds best negotiator, not the terrible one she actually is.
Are the Torries and DUP in and that's it for 5 yrs
Or will there have to be another election
Can't see anything about a deal and it also spoke of "It is thought Mrs May will seek some kind of informal arrangement with the DUP that could see it "lend" its support to the Tories on a vote-by-vote basis, known as confidence and supply".
However, in my opinion, the DUP are not that close a fit with the Tories.
I'd be being unfair to fruitcakes if I were to claim that some of their members were fruitcakes. There are more than a few that espouse "robust and old-fashioned" political views, though with a tendency to reject compromise.
Don't get me wrong, there are some that I think are very good, effective politicians, but they are not the majority (IMHO). Arlene Foster is not the most natural or warmest communicator, and has squandered political opportunities before now, I'm not sure she's an ideal partner.
PS I do see some mentioning that the UK Government is supposed to be neutral re: the Assembly here, difficult to manage if the DUP is in both.
It would be an achievement if it were to last for the duration of the remaining Article 50 Brexit process until March 2019 - let alone beyond that.
As the detail and reality of Brexit emerges between now and then the strains in the Tory party on what 'type' of Brexit will only increase and the contradictory and unrealistic approach of the DUP - pro-Brexit but somehow wanting to avoid a 'hard border' - will only add to those strains (and that's without considering all the other policy issues where detail was absent from the Tory manifesto).
So it begins.
It's not like the Tories are shy about dispatching their leader's either. I expect they started sharpening the knives at 10pm last night.
When the grandees feel the time is right they will mobilise and it's fairly straightforward to make the challenge 15% (48) Conservative MP's would need to write to the 1922 committee saying they no longer have confidence in her. Bojo will easily be able to convince 48 or more to write those letters.
Wondering if the Tories felt that May's robotic personality affected her affinity with the younger electorate who responded to Corbyns more outward style.
Either way - May is hanging on and needs to go. Let her do the nasty of job of getting Brexit underway and then Boris comes in (I dont buy the whole Brexit Boris thing - he was remain all the way but just wanted power).