All a complete mess, but I'm not sure what the alternative is or what other decision they or another party could make,
If labour tried to form a government to get a majority they would need to have every other party and independent onside including the DUP, that would never happen.
Shame the lib gems wouldn't do it again, thought at times they brought a bit of level to the Conservatives.
The speed with which this was arranged suggests that May is comfortable with it.
I know in this country majority is the only way people know but minority governments are common in Europe.
If the Conservatives didn't try to reach an agreement with any of the other parties to provide a basic platform for a Conservative minority government, then they are not capable of negotiation and therefore not competent given the challenges ahead.
If any such party (SNP, Lib Dem or Labour) was approached and flatly refused to provide basic arrangements (not suggesting a coalition), knowing that the DUP would be wagging the dog, then that party is not capable of governance and does not deserve public support.
The above is based on the assumption that the DUP would be bad for UK governance but maybe the Conservatives are happy to be depending on DUP support.
The problem is Labour didn't take enough votes from the Tories. The Tories didn't lose (enough) and Labour didn't win.
As I said above the key here is whether we have reached a plateau for Corbyn (great achievement as it was) or not.
But you probably would have imagined that plateau to be a lot lower than Kensington and Chelsea before the election. Open your eyes to the fact that something might be happening here. Might is ok - you can seek more evidence, but you have to come to terms with the possibility.
Well said @MuttleyCAFC . I have been a big critic of Corbyn, not so much what he was saying but through the belief that he was unelectable. I believed that winning was more important than believing. If it was all about winning I wouldn't be an 'Addick.
I started off this election hating the Tories as they had reverted to the (even more) nasty party, that meant I would vote for whoever had the best chance of beating them. So in a sense I was voting for the least worse.
The Labour manifesto changed all that because what they were saying is what I believe but somehow in the last 20 years (I last voted for Lab in 1997) I had been persuaded that those things were not possible, that somehow the markets wouldn't allow it. As the nation had been dragged to the right so had my expectations.
Of course the Tories got the most seats but the tide has turned, the rush to the right has been checked and it would seem that sensible policies, that might actually benefit people, can at least be debated.
The weird (not meaning unique) thing that I have learnt from this election is I can now see why a lot of people voted for UKIP, Trump and Brexit. Putting aside the right wing populism which is hard I know, people have been looking for somebody who will speak up for them as the mainstream parties (Labour and Tory) have been letting them down for years. Labour now look to have broken this but I still do not trust the PLP, I hope the Tories can break from their Nasty Party schtick too and we can have both main parties offering different visions that both genuinely seek to look after all of the UK.
Yes, Austerity does not need to be a Conservative policy. It has no economic examples where it has worked. The conservative party should be about encouraging wealth creation and growth, not pandering to obscenely powerful corporations. Only two manifestos promoted growth - the Labour one and the Greens. But growth is not left wing territory and shouldn't be. The Conservatives have become cheer leaders for an elite and sod the rest of us. The 1% are the only ones who benefit from austerity.
There is no politics of envy. Those earning 80k to 100k are played by the tories. They shouldn't be afraid of the better world we want, it will give them better lives and won't make them poorer.
For those who don't get it - you have to start somewhere. What Corbyn has achieved is a complete turnaround of fortunes and a base camp much higher than we ever expected for the climb to the summit. From this being the election May called to destroy the Labour party, it can smell power.
Yes, Austerity does not need to be a Conservative policy. It has no economic examples where it has worked. The conservative party should be about encouraging wealth creation and growth, not pandering to obscenely powerful corporations. Only two manifestos promoted growth - the Labour one and the Greens. But growth is not left wing territory and shouldn't be. The Conservatives have become cheer leaders for an elite and sod the rest of us. The 1% are the only ones who benefit from austerity.
There is no politics of envy. Those earning 80k to 100k are played by the tories. They shouldn't be afraid of the better world we want, it will give them better lives and won't make them poorer.
For those who don't get it - you have to start somewhere. What Corbyn has achieved is a complete turnaround of fortunes and a base camp much higher than we ever expected for the climb to the summit. From this being the election May called to destroy the Labour party, it can smell power.
Wise words again @MuttleyCAFC . But it is he hope that kills you!
Well said @MuttleyCAFC . I have been a big critic of Corbyn, not so much what he was saying but through the belief that he was unelectable. I believed that winning was more important than believing. If it was all about winning I wouldn't be an 'Addick.
I started off this election hating the Tories as they had reverted to the (even more) nasty party, that meant I would vote for whoever had the best chance of beating them. So in a sense I was voting for the least worse.
The Labour manifesto changed all that because what they were saying is what I believe but somehow in the last 20 years (I last voted for Lab in 1997) I had been persuaded that those things were not possible, that somehow the markets wouldn't allow it. As the nation had been dragged to the right so had my expectations.
Of course the Tories got the most seats but the tide has turned, the rush to the right has been checked and it would seem that sensible policies, that might actually benefit people, can at least be debated.
The weird (not meaning unique) thing that I have learnt from this election is I can now see why a lot of people voted for UKIP, Trump and Brexit. Putting aside the right wing populism which is hard I know, people have been looking for somebody who will speak up for them as the mainstream parties (Labour and Tory) have been letting them down for years. Labour now look to have broken this but I still do not trust the PLP, I hope the Tories can break from their Nasty Party schtick too and we can have both main parties offering different visions that both genuinely seek to look after all of the UK.
Couldn't agree more about how expectations and the political spectrum has shifted. Looking back now I find myself agreeing that Ed Miliband was a fool for allowing the conservatives to write the austerity argument. The economics aren't easy to explain, especially when so many people try to dumb it down by likening it to household finances.
I hope this election has lasting postitive effect as they realise that people are starting to demand more of politicians again.
The problem is Labour didn't take enough votes from the Tories. The Tories didn't lose (enough) and Labour didn't win.
As I said above the key here is whether we have reached a plateau for Corbyn (great achievement as it was) or not.
Very good question. It's all about what Corbyn does next. He's done the seemingly impossible of convincing people he's not the complete loony tune portrayed by the scum press and there's no doubt his manifesto struck a cord with the electorate. The ground work has been done.
What he should be looking to do next is build on that. Get onto tv in as many situations he can to reinforce the genuine Mr. nice guy image. He also needs to recognise that The Labour Party as it stands is not all inclusive and still alienates the centre and right of the party. There are more votes out there he can win but only if he's now the leader he needs to be.
Cooper and Umunna should be invited into the shadow cabinet. Corbyn has now the authority to steer his left wing agenda but trying to gain power without recognising the need to court all labour voters will mean another very tough election.
The Tories are unbelievably on the ropes and his next actions could give Labour a real shot at forming a government.
It saddens me for the short term implications to us all, but agent May is continuing to work for our victory. I am not grateful for it, but I can acknowledge it.
The problem is Labour didn't take enough votes from the Tories. The Tories didn't lose (enough) and Labour didn't win.
As I said above the key here is whether we have reached a plateau for Corbyn (great achievement as it was) or not.
Very good question. It's all about what Corbyn does next. He's done the seemingly impossible of convincing people he's not the complete loony tune portrayed by the scum press and there's no doubt his manifesto struck a cord with the electorate. The ground work has been done.
What he should be looking to do next is build on that. Get onto tv in as many situations he can to reinforce the genuine Mr. nice guy image. He also needs to recognise that The Labour Party as it stands is not all inclusive and still alienates the centre and right of the party. There are more votes out there he can win but only if he's now the leader he needs to be.
Cooper and Umunna should be invited into the shadow cabinet. Corbyn has now the authority to steer his left wing agenda but trying to gain power without recognising the need to court all labour voters will mean another very tough election.
The Tories are unbelievably on the ropes and his next actions could give Labour a real shot at forming a government.
Corbyn will bring them in when it is clear they have accepted him. That is happening. I get a sense that many moderates in the Labour party got into it because of a passion for social justice but understood that you had to be pragmatic. Blair's New Labour project confirmed this, but the rules have changed. Not just here but around the world. The fact that a politician like Bernie Sanders is the most popular politician in America is mind blowing to anybody who has a basic understanding of American politics.
What does Kesington and Chelsea say, what does Canetrbury say? It says those people who never voted before - the silent majority - are changing the landscape and the rules. I was scepticle Corbyn could unlock teh young vote but he did it. And when you do these things they don't get undone. I just invite people to try to understand how significant this is. We are hearing moderates saying openly - I was wrong about Corbyn. These are the people who were trying to oust him a few weeks ago. Now they are standing behind him. What sort of leader can do that, except the very best!
By the way - a few weeks ago I was one of them and have gone through the change myself. I would walk over broken glass now if Corbyn asked me to. I find that incredible. No polictician has ever touched me in the way he has and it is from listening to his speeches and messages and understanding his aims.
The problem is Labour didn't take enough votes from the Tories. The Tories didn't lose (enough) and Labour didn't win.
As I said above the key here is whether we have reached a plateau for Corbyn (great achievement as it was) or not.
Very good question. It's all about what Corbyn does next. He's done the seemingly impossible of convincing people he's not the complete loony tune portrayed by the scum press and there's no doubt his manifesto struck a cord with the electorate. The ground work has been done.
What he should be looking to do next is build on that. Get onto tv in as many situations he can to reinforce the genuine Mr. nice guy image. He also needs to recognise that The Labour Party as it stands is not all inclusive and still alienates the centre and right of the party. There are more votes out there he can win but only if he's now the leader he needs to be.
Cooper and Umunna should be invited into the shadow cabinet. Corbyn has now the authority to steer his left wing agenda but trying to gain power without recognising the need to court all labour voters will mean another very tough election.
The Tories are unbelievably on the ropes and his next actions could give Labour a real shot at forming a government.
I think it comes down to that a large part of the electorate will never be able to vote for him. Too large unfortunately. Even after the TV debates, 40% of people thought he could not hold office because of his previous stance on Ireland according a Yougov poll.
I agree he should try to broaden the shadow cabinet with some of the talent there is in PLP. I love him and have supported him since the first leadership but I just don't think he can do it. I think he can lay the foundations for the next leader. A lot of what happens depends on how long before the 1922 committee decide to get rid of May and how long the conservatives can keep discipline for. If the next election is in the next three years I can still see him being leader.
@NornIrishAddick what's your take on the impact of May getting into bed with the DUP around the operation of the Stormont Executive? I was chatting to a colleague from NI whose opinion was that direct links between Westminister and the DUP is not going to be at all helpful to the whole power sharing process and puts the progress achieved over the last 20 years at risk? Is she being too alarmist or is this a real risk?
There has to be concern. The UK Government has sought for 25 years to be as neutral as possible regarding internal Northern Ireland political squabbles. It is difficult to see it being able to portray itself as an honest broker if it is in bed with the DUP.
What it will be likely to do will be strengthen the dissident groups - it is a propaganda gift waiting to happen. It just depends what the first controversy will be.
While I don't know what the price of the alliance might be, it will at least include £500m to cover Arlene's RHI disaster.
Well here we are with a minority government and having read a lot of the posts I have to say that this would be the first time in my life I would consider going and living elsewhere. The idea that Corbyn and especially McDonald are somehow "idealists" is rank stupidity. They are Marxists who have successfully hijacked the Labour party, they do not stand as Marxists because they wouldn't have a hope of power but here they are on the verge of sending this country into oblivion.
Corbyn has been a lifelong apologist and supporter of terrorist groups. McDonald has stated clearly that he would disband MI5 and armed police, given the atrocities we have seen in the last couple of weeks would that make you feel safer? would you trust these two to protect you families and this country? Why is this not discussed?
So then we have their "ice cream and jelly" economics, lets promise everyone all these treats and not bother to worry about how it gets paid for. Oh I know we tax the rich so they fuck off then your revenue from them is zero so it's left to the rest of us to pick the bill up, happens every time with a Labour government. Nothing improves it just gets more expensive.McDonald wants the end to capitalism what a great idea! Lets be like Marxist Russia where everyone was equally poor and fucking miserable.
People I am no lover of the Tories but the alternative is too scary to contemplate. Oh and by the way all you Football loving Corbyn supporters out there when they start soaking the rich and your favourite players go off to Spain, Germany etc. you can enjoy watching park football in empty stadiums. Welcome to the future.
Shami Chakrabarti just said on Question Time that Jeremy Corbyn won the election !
There are far too many fantasists about. (sorry fantasists no offence intended).
And the other lady just called May a robot and Corbyn a clown! Why is it I always seem to agree with whoever isn't a politician......
What the arrogant daily mail reporter - you must be so proud agreeing with her.
We know how many seats Corbyn got, just because we are saying he has won from the undertsanding we have what as happened, I can't see why others are so bothered about it? If you need an explanation, this will be my last because a closed mind can't grasp simple facts - but here goes. At the start of this election there were question marks about Corbyn's position, was he a leader, can Labour survive. It is after all the reason May called the election.
The tories had a major bounce at the expense of UKIP and increased their percentage share - that part of May's calculations were correct. But in the space of 7 weeks, we have found a leader. The more people that just read the crap that is thrown at him and don't study the facts, the less they will understand. An unelectable leader of a dying party at war with itself 7 weeks ago - 20 to 25 points behind in teh polls and the local election results backed this up.
7 Weeks later, the dying party is vibrant - no longer at war with itself. It has found an inspirational leader and broken all the old rules. The young have started to find their voice and they like it. The genie can not be put back in the bottle- thinking about this as just another election is missing the underlying message. The Conservative party is now the party atr war - the coming weeks and months will show this. Kensington and Chelsea voted Labour for the first time ever.Kensington and Chelsea. Victory is the transformation in both parties and that is why we feel like we have won.
Please feel free to disagree, but understand why and if we are proven wrong - so be it. But it isn't rocket science really.
Don't think I disagree with 95% of that Muttley, anyone involved in the Labour party should be proud of what they achieved this election and the Tory Party (excluding Ruth Davidson in Scotland) should hang their heads in shame with a shambles of an election campaign, idiots.
I haven't studied it but I don't think the UKIP vote has necessarily moved to the Tories quite like we thought it would, judging by the individual results anyway but hard to fully tell unless you know who voted what this time and who voted what last time. My father in law has switched from UKIP to Labour as he's retired and wants the triple lock (his words not mine), my 22 year old next door but one neighbour has done the same, although he quoted the Uni fee's as his reason to go from UKIp to Labour when I spoke to him.
By the way, kensignton and chelsea didn't, it's just kensington Chelsea and Fulham is still Conservative. I'd expect with a better campaign next time Kensington will go back to Tory.
What made we agree with the robot and the clown comment, think the robot is obvious in relation to May (strong & stable), the clown - just listen to Corbyn's interview I posted above for a highlight, he is very clearly saying he won the election and that he has a mandate to be in power, to be the Prime Minister - really......
The guy is deluded, he talks of having won the election, the only party that should be in power, that he should be forming a government with no deals with anyone. He lost the election, full stop, he may have improved on the result in 2015 but he still lost and has nearly 60 less seats than the Tory's. To form a government he would need every other single party, every single independent and the point most seem to miss he'd probably also need the DUP!
You don't (necessarily) win an election by being the most improved, if you did I suspect we'd have been governed since 2015 by the SNP and UKIP!
So by all means Labour can crow from the roof tops about how well they did, rightly so. If I was Corbyn i'd be doing exactly that. But when the leader of the Labour Party comes out with the clearly idiotic comments he has in the said interview, then yes, I agree with whoever says it and whatever paper they may now or previously have written for, he's a clown. If he can't understand the democratic process of a general election after his what, 40 years in parliament then god help us all if he ever ruled the country.
Who knows what the future holds, i'm not concerned which parties name is above the door, like i'd said previously my last two elections I voted labour. We just need the best people at any given time running this country. Frankly i'd rather it wasn't the robot or the clown, I think both parties are poor for very different reasons. I'm awaiting the day @bobmunro is our leader and we live in a world of Utopia
Well here we are with a minority government and having read a lot of the posts I have to say that this would be the first time in my life I would consider going and living elsewhere. The idea that Corbyn and especially McDonald are somehow "idealists" is rank stupidity. They are Marxists who have successfully hijacked the Labour party, they do not stand as Marxists because they wouldn't have a hope of power but here they are on the verge of sending this country into oblivion.
Corbyn has been a lifelong apologist and supporter of terrorist groups. McDonald has stated clearly that he would disband MI5 and armed police, given the atrocities we have seen in the last couple of weeks would that make you feel safer? would you trust these two to protect you families and this country? Why is this not discussed?
So then we have their "ice cream and jelly" economics, lets promise everyone all these treats and not bother to worry about how it gets paid for. Oh I know we tax the rich so they fuck off then your revenue from them is zero so it's left to the rest of us to pick the bill up, happens every time with a Labour government. Nothing improves it just gets more expensive.McDonald wants the end to capitalism what a great idea! Lets be like Marxist Russia where everyone was equally poor and fucking miserable.
People I am no lover of the Tories but the alternative is too scary to contemplate. Oh and by the way all you Football loving Corbyn supporters out there when they start soaking the rich and your favourite players go off to Spain, Germany etc. you can enjoy watching park football in empty stadiums. Welcome to the future.
Amazing you actually believe this. You must be wired to the Daily Mail. Maybe you didn't read the manifestos. May was cutting police and Labour proposed increasing them by 10,000.
The football analogy you gave is too ridiculous for comment. Even if it were true, what would the issue be for us Charlton fans!
The problem is Labour didn't take enough votes from the Tories. The Tories didn't lose (enough) and Labour didn't win.
As I said above the key here is whether we have reached a plateau for Corbyn (great achievement as it was) or not.
Very good question. It's all about what Corbyn does next. He's done the seemingly impossible of convincing people he's not the complete loony tune portrayed by the scum press and there's no doubt his manifesto struck a cord with the electorate. The ground work has been done.
What he should be looking to do next is build on that. Get onto tv in as many situations he can to reinforce the genuine Mr. nice guy image. He also needs to recognise that The Labour Party as it stands is not all inclusive and still alienates the centre and right of the party. There are more votes out there he can win but only if he's now the leader he needs to be.
Cooper and Umunna should be invited into the shadow cabinet. Corbyn has now the authority to steer his left wing agenda but trying to gain power without recognising the need to court all labour voters will mean another very tough election.
The Tories are unbelievably on the ropes and his next actions could give Labour a real shot at forming a government.
I think it comes down to that a large part of the electorate will never be able to vote for him. Too large unfortunately. Even after the TV debates, 40% of people thought he could not hold office because of his previous stance on Ireland according a Yougov poll.
I agree he should try to broaden the shadow cabinet with some of the talent there is in PLP. I love him and have supported him since the first leadership but I just don't think he can do it. I think he can lay the foundations for the next leader. A lot of what happens depends on how long before the 1922 committee decide to get rid of May and how long the conservatives can keep discipline for. If the next election is in the next three years I can still see him being leader.
I think that Theresa May has just nullified any suggestion that Corbyn's "Irish" past links might have had.
I also don't think that Labour has too much of a mountain to climb now. What was the percentage of the vote ? 40% compared to the conservatives ? Figure of ?
Well here we are with a minority government and having read a lot of the posts I have to say that this would be the first time in my life I would consider going and living elsewhere. The idea that Corbyn and especially McDonald are somehow "idealists" is rank stupidity. They are Marxists who have successfully hijacked the Labour party, they do not stand as Marxists because they wouldn't have a hope of power but here they are on the verge of sending this country into oblivion.
Corbyn has been a lifelong apologist and supporter of terrorist groups. McDonald has stated clearly that he would disband MI5 and armed police, given the atrocities we have seen in the last couple of weeks would that make you feel safer? would you trust these two to protect you families and this country? Why is this not discussed?
So then we have their "ice cream and jelly" economics, lets promise everyone all these treats and not bother to worry about how it gets paid for. Oh I know we tax the rich so they fuck off then your revenue from them is zero so it's left to the rest of us to pick the bill up, happens every time with a Labour government. Nothing improves it just gets more expensive.McDonald wants the end to capitalism what a great idea! Lets be like Marxist Russia where everyone was equally poor and fucking miserable.
People I am no lover of the Tories but the alternative is too scary to contemplate. Oh and by the way all you Football loving Corbyn supporters out there when they start soaking the rich and your favourite players go off to Spain, Germany etc. you can enjoy watching park football in empty stadiums. Welcome to the future.
I can't be arsed with the rest of your post but the bit I have highlighted, are you sure? Not that it will affect Charlton but I would be happy if some mercenaries left the game.
Labour's manifesto had some great ideas for football, as I am sure you know as you have obviously read it.
Shami Chakrabarti just said on Question Time that Jeremy Corbyn won the election !
There are far too many fantasists about. (sorry fantasists no offence intended).
And the other lady just called May a robot and Corbyn a clown! Why is it I always seem to agree with whoever isn't a politician......
What the arrogant daily mail reporter - you must be so proud agreeing with her.
We know how many seats Corbyn got, just because we are saying he has won from the undertsanding we have what as happened, I can't see why others are so bothered about it? If you need an explanation, this will be my last because a closed mind can't grasp simple facts - but here goes. At the start of this election there were question marks about Corbyn's position, was he a leader, can Labour survive. It is after all the reason May called the election.
The tories had a major bounce at the expense of UKIP and increased their percentage share - that part of May's calculations were correct. But in the space of 7 weeks, we have found a leader. The more people that just read the crap that is thrown at him and don't study the facts, the less they will understand. An unelectable leader of a dying party at war with itself 7 weeks ago - 20 to 25 points behind in teh polls and the local election results backed this up.
7 Weeks later, the dying party is vibrant - no longer at war with itself. It has found an inspirational leader and broken all the old rules. The young have started to find their voice and they like it. The genie can not be put back in the bottle- thinking about this as just another election is missing the underlying message. The Conservative party is now the party atr war - the coming weeks and months will show this. Kensington and Chelsea voted Labour for the first time ever.Kensington and Chelsea. Victory is the transformation in both parties and that is why we feel like we have won.
Please feel free to disagree, but understand why and if we are proven wrong - so be it. But it isn't rocket science really.
I and I think the vast majority would agree with all of this. It is not in dispute.
The point you are not grasping is Corbyn, Chakrabarti and others were not saying we did so well, we feel like we won even though we didn't. They are saying we won. Corbyn went further, saying he would form a government without making any deals.
Anyone remember Jose Mouhrino claiming Chelsea were unbeaten at home under him, even though Charlton had won there (albeit I think in extra time) ?
Boundary changes looming. Don't underestimate the significance of that.
Except (as posted before) the proposed boundary changes will almost certainly not now happen.
The current timetable is for a final consultation on the proposals this autumn to be followed by a final report to parliament late summer 2018 - which then has to be approved by a parliamentary vote.
Before this General Election there were already so many potential 'losers' amongst MPs to put such a vote in doubt. Now with the need to minimise votes on anything to try and sustain the cobbled together alliance with the DUP anything unnecessarily 'controversial' (and the boundary changes are) will almost certainly be avoided (and that's even if the ramshackle arrangement with the DUP survives until then).
Thanks Mutley, I've spent most of my teenage and adult life following and later studying politics and the Labour party, I think I have a right to make a judgement call of my own without your advice to open my eyes. Present me with evidence by all means and argue a case. I am saying it as I see it objectively, thanks.
Don't worry, Labour will get in next time, just waiting for Corbyn to think up another bribe for another section of the electorate.
We had free school meals for those in the 25-40 yr old age group with school aged children
We had free tuition fees & the promise to wipe out existing debt for the 18-25 year olds - which obviously had no impact on why Canterbury (a large University town) fell to labour for the first time in 100 years.
Perhaps if Corbyn will promise to pay my child maintenance costs for the next 5 years - that will get my vote !
Shami Chakrabarti just said on Question Time that Jeremy Corbyn won the election !
There are far too many fantasists about. (sorry fantasists no offence intended).
And the other lady just called May a robot and Corbyn a clown! Why is it I always seem to agree with whoever isn't a politician......
What the arrogant daily mail reporter - you must be so proud agreeing with her.
We know how many seats Corbyn got, just because we are saying he has won from the undertsanding we have what as happened, I can't see why others are so bothered about it? If you need an explanation, this will be my last because a closed mind can't grasp simple facts - but here goes. At the start of this election there were question marks about Corbyn's position, was he a leader, can Labour survive. It is after all the reason May called the election.
The tories had a major bounce at the expense of UKIP and increased their percentage share - that part of May's calculations were correct. But in the space of 7 weeks, we have found a leader. The more people that just read the crap that is thrown at him and don't study the facts, the less they will understand. An unelectable leader of a dying party at war with itself 7 weeks ago - 20 to 25 points behind in teh polls and the local election results backed this up.
7 Weeks later, the dying party is vibrant - no longer at war with itself. It has found an inspirational leader and broken all the old rules. The young have started to find their voice and they like it. The genie can not be put back in the bottle- thinking about this as just another election is missing the underlying message. The Conservative party is now the party atr war - the coming weeks and months will show this. Kensington and Chelsea voted Labour for the first time ever.Kensington and Chelsea. Victory is the transformation in both parties and that is why we feel like we have won.
Please feel free to disagree, but understand why and if we are proven wrong - so be it. But it isn't rocket science really.
Don't think I disagree with 95% of that Muttley, anyone involved in the Labour party should be proud of what they achieved this election and the Tory Party (excluding Ruth Davidson in Scotland) should hang their heads in shame with a shambles of an election campaign, idiots.
I haven't studied it but I don't think the UKIP vote has necessarily moved to the Tories quite like we thought it would, judging by the individual results anyway but hard to fully tell unless you know who voted what this time and who voted what last time. My father in law has switched from UKIP to Labour as he's retired and wants the triple lock (his words not mine), my 22 year old next door but one neighbour has done the same, although he quoted the Uni fee's as his reason to go from UKIp to Labour when I spoke to him.
By the way, kensignton and chelsea didn't, it's just kensington Chelsea and Fulham is still Conservative. I'd expect with a better campaign next time Kensington will go back to Tory.
What made we agree with the robot and the clown comment, think the robot is obvious in relation to May (strong & stable), the clown - just listen to Corbyn's interview I posted above for a highlight, he is very clearly saying he won the election and that he has a mandate to be in power, to be the Prime Minister - really......
The guy is deluded, he talks of having won the election, the only party that should be in power, that he should be forming a government with no deals with anyone. He lost the election, full stop, he may have improved on the result in 2015 but he still lost and has nearly 60 less seats than the Tory's. To form a government he would need every other single party, every single independent and the point most seem to miss he'd probably also need the DUP!
You don't (necessarily) win an election by being the most improved, if you did I suspect we'd have been governed since 2015 by the SNP and UKIP!
So by all means Labour can crow from the roof tops about how well they did, rightly so. If I was Corbyn i'd be doing exactly that. But when the leader of the Labour Party comes out with the clearly idiotic comments he has in the said interview, then yes, I agree with whoever says it and whatever paper they may now or previously have written for, he's a clown. If he can't understand the democratic process of a general election after his what, 40 years in parliament then god help us all if he ever ruled the country.
Who knows what the future holds, i'm not concerned which parties name is above the door, like i'd said previously my last two elections I voted labour. We just need the best people at any given time running this country. Frankly i'd rather it wasn't the robot or the clown, I think both parties are poor for very different reasons. I'm awaiting the day @bobmunro is our leader and we live in a world of Utopia
@Rob7Lee whilst I disagree with most of what you post I think you set out your reasons and show an ability to think things through (although I am still waiting for a response to the five year funding cuts for schools! (smiley thing)).
But don't you think Corbyn is playing the long game here? He is putting pressure on the Tories and May and he is getting out the message that he and Labour are ready to govern. It is the classic Tory tactic with a twist, he will say we are ready to govern in the next few days it will be all over the news and when the Tory coalition of chaos crumbles (as it will) people will remember the 'ready to govern' bit as that more than anything with ex-Labour voters is what held him back. The twist is that it keeps the awful coalition in the news and keeps the pressure up.
The message is not aimed at you who would never vote for him.
Shami Chakrabarti just said on Question Time that Jeremy Corbyn won the election !
There are far too many fantasists about. (sorry fantasists no offence intended).
And the other lady just called May a robot and Corbyn a clown! Why is it I always seem to agree with whoever isn't a politician......
What the arrogant daily mail reporter - you must be so proud agreeing with her.
We know how many seats Corbyn got, just because we are saying he has won from the undertsanding we have what as happened, I can't see why others are so bothered about it? If you need an explanation, this will be my last because a closed mind can't grasp simple facts - but here goes. At the start of this election there were question marks about Corbyn's position, was he a leader, can Labour survive. It is after all the reason May called the election.
The tories had a major bounce at the expense of UKIP and increased their percentage share - that part of May's calculations were correct. But in the space of 7 weeks, we have found a leader. The more people that just read the crap that is thrown at him and don't study the facts, the less they will understand. An unelectable leader of a dying party at war with itself 7 weeks ago - 20 to 25 points behind in teh polls and the local election results backed this up.
7 Weeks later, the dying party is vibrant - no longer at war with itself. It has found an inspirational leader and broken all the old rules. The young have started to find their voice and they like it. The genie can not be put back in the bottle- thinking about this as just another election is missing the underlying message. The Conservative party is now the party atr war - the coming weeks and months will show this. Kensington and Chelsea voted Labour for the first time ever.Kensington and Chelsea. Victory is the transformation in both parties and that is why we feel like we have won.
Please feel free to disagree, but understand why and if we are proven wrong - so be it. But it isn't rocket science really.
I and I think the vast majority would agree with all of this. It is not in dispute.
The point you are not grasping is Corbyn, Chakrabarti and others were not saying we did so well, we feel like we won even though we didn't. They are saying we won. Corbyn went further, saying he would form a government without making any deals.
Anyone remember Jose Mouhrino claiming Chelsea were unbeaten at home under him, even though Charlton had won there (albeit I think in extra time) ?
The forming a government claim is tactical. It is sending a message that this unelectable person could form a government if the Tories decided not to get into bed with terrorist sympathisers. That is a message to people in the Labour party as well as the public. Of course, the getting into bed with terrorist sympathisers is going to help Labour form a majority government sooner rather than later.
I really can't see how people are so bothered about Corbyn, Chakrabarti and even I thinking we have won. If you set a target and massively exceed it, it feels like you have won. If you disagree that is fine, but it only shows yourself up if it bothers you.
Don't worry, Labour will get in next time, just waiting for Corbyn to think up another bribe for another section of the electorate.
We had free school meals for those in the 25-40 yr old age group with school aged children
We had free tuition fees & the promise to wipe out existing debt for the 18-25 year olds - which obviously had no impact on why Canterbury (a large University town) fell to labour for the first time in 100 years.
Perhaps if Corbyn will promise to pay my child maintenance costs for the next 5 years - that will get my vote !
Shami Chakrabarti just said on Question Time that Jeremy Corbyn won the election !
There are far too many fantasists about. (sorry fantasists no offence intended).
And the other lady just called May a robot and Corbyn a clown! Why is it I always seem to agree with whoever isn't a politician......
What the arrogant daily mail reporter - you must be so proud agreeing with her.
We know how many seats Corbyn got, just because we are saying he has won from the undertsanding we have what as happened, I can't see why others are so bothered about it? If you need an explanation, this will be my last because a closed mind can't grasp simple facts - but here goes. At the start of this election there were question marks about Corbyn's position, was he a leader, can Labour survive. It is after all the reason May called the election.
The tories had a major bounce at the expense of UKIP and increased their percentage share - that part of May's calculations were correct. But in the space of 7 weeks, we have found a leader. The more people that just read the crap that is thrown at him and don't study the facts, the less they will understand. An unelectable leader of a dying party at war with itself 7 weeks ago - 20 to 25 points behind in teh polls and the local election results backed this up.
7 Weeks later, the dying party is vibrant - no longer at war with itself. It has found an inspirational leader and broken all the old rules. The young have started to find their voice and they like it. The genie can not be put back in the bottle- thinking about this as just another election is missing the underlying message. The Conservative party is now the party atr war - the coming weeks and months will show this. Kensington and Chelsea voted Labour for the first time ever.Kensington and Chelsea. Victory is the transformation in both parties and that is why we feel like we have won.
Please feel free to disagree, but understand why and if we are proven wrong - so be it. But it isn't rocket science really.
Don't think I disagree with 95% of that Muttley, anyone involved in the Labour party should be proud of what they achieved this election and the Tory Party (excluding Ruth Davidson in Scotland) should hang their heads in shame with a shambles of an election campaign, idiots.
I haven't studied it but I don't think the UKIP vote has necessarily moved to the Tories quite like we thought it would, judging by the individual results anyway but hard to fully tell unless you know who voted what this time and who voted what last time. My father in law has switched from UKIP to Labour as he's retired and wants the triple lock (his words not mine), my 22 year old next door but one neighbour has done the same, although he quoted the Uni fee's as his reason to go from UKIp to Labour when I spoke to him.
By the way, kensignton and chelsea didn't, it's just kensington Chelsea and Fulham is still Conservative. I'd expect with a better campaign next time Kensington will go back to Tory.
What made we agree with the robot and the clown comment, think the robot is obvious in relation to May (strong & stable), the clown - just listen to Corbyn's interview I posted above for a highlight, he is very clearly saying he won the election and that he has a mandate to be in power, to be the Prime Minister - really......
The guy is deluded, he talks of having won the election, the only party that should be in power, that he should be forming a government with no deals with anyone. He lost the election, full stop, he may have improved on the result in 2015 but he still lost and has nearly 60 less seats than the Tory's. To form a government he would need every other single party, every single independent and the point most seem to miss he'd probably also need the DUP!
You don't (necessarily) win an election by being the most improved, if you did I suspect we'd have been governed since 2015 by the SNP and UKIP!
So by all means Labour can crow from the roof tops about how well they did, rightly so. If I was Corbyn i'd be doing exactly that. But when the leader of the Labour Party comes out with the clearly idiotic comments he has in the said interview, then yes, I agree with whoever says it and whatever paper they may now or previously have written for, he's a clown. If he can't understand the democratic process of a general election after his what, 40 years in parliament then god help us all if he ever ruled the country.
Who knows what the future holds, i'm not concerned which parties name is above the door, like i'd said previously my last two elections I voted labour. We just need the best people at any given time running this country. Frankly i'd rather it wasn't the robot or the clown, I think both parties are poor for very different reasons. I'm awaiting the day @bobmunro is our leader and we live in a world of Utopia
I believe there is an degree of management of expectations required here!
Comments
I know in this country majority is the only way people know but minority governments are common in Europe.
If the Conservatives didn't try to reach an agreement with any of the other parties to provide a basic platform for a Conservative minority government, then they are not capable of negotiation and therefore not competent given the challenges ahead.
If any such party (SNP, Lib Dem or Labour) was approached and flatly refused to provide basic arrangements (not suggesting a coalition), knowing that the DUP would be wagging the dog, then that party is not capable of governance and does not deserve public support.
The above is based on the assumption that the DUP would be bad for UK governance but maybe the Conservatives are happy to be depending on DUP support.
I started off this election hating the Tories as they had reverted to the (even more) nasty party, that meant I would vote for whoever had the best chance of beating them. So in a sense I was voting for the least worse.
The Labour manifesto changed all that because what they were saying is what I believe but somehow in the last 20 years (I last voted for Lab in 1997) I had been persuaded that those things were not possible, that somehow the markets wouldn't allow it. As the nation had been dragged to the right so had my expectations.
Of course the Tories got the most seats but the tide has turned, the rush to the right has been checked and it would seem that sensible policies, that might actually benefit people, can at least be debated.
The weird (not meaning unique) thing that I have learnt from this election is I can now see why a lot of people voted for UKIP, Trump and Brexit. Putting aside the right wing populism which is hard I know, people have been looking for somebody who will speak up for them as the mainstream parties (Labour and Tory) have been letting them down for years. Labour now look to have broken this but I still do not trust the PLP, I hope the Tories can break from their Nasty Party schtick too and we can have both main parties offering different visions that both genuinely seek to look after all of the UK.
There is no politics of envy. Those earning 80k to 100k are played by the tories. They shouldn't be afraid of the better world we want, it will give them better lives and won't make them poorer.
For those who don't get it - you have to start somewhere. What Corbyn has achieved is a complete turnaround of fortunes and a base camp much higher than we ever expected for the climb to the summit. From this being the election May called to destroy the Labour party, it can smell power.
I hope this election has lasting postitive effect as they realise that people are starting to demand more of politicians again.
What he should be looking to do next is build on that. Get onto tv in as many situations he can to reinforce the genuine Mr. nice guy image. He also needs to recognise that The Labour Party as it stands is not all inclusive and still alienates the centre and right of the party. There are more votes out there he can win but only if he's now the leader he needs to be.
Cooper and Umunna should be invited into the shadow cabinet. Corbyn has now the authority to steer his left wing agenda but trying to gain power without recognising the need to court all labour voters will mean another very tough election.
The Tories are unbelievably on the ropes and his next actions could give Labour a real shot at forming a government.
What does Kesington and Chelsea say, what does Canetrbury say? It says those people who never voted before - the silent majority - are changing the landscape and the rules. I was scepticle Corbyn could unlock teh young vote but he did it. And when you do these things they don't get undone. I just invite people to try to understand how significant this is. We are hearing moderates saying openly - I was wrong about Corbyn. These are the people who were trying to oust him a few weeks ago. Now they are standing behind him. What sort of leader can do that, except the very best!
By the way - a few weeks ago I was one of them and have gone through the change myself. I would walk over broken glass now if Corbyn asked me to. I find that incredible. No polictician has ever touched me in the way he has and it is from listening to his speeches and messages and understanding his aims.
I agree he should try to broaden the shadow cabinet with some of the talent there is in PLP. I love him and have supported him since the first leadership but I just don't think he can do it. I think he can lay the foundations for the next leader. A lot of what happens depends on how long before the 1922 committee decide to get rid of May and how long the conservatives can keep discipline for. If the next election is in the next three years I can still see him being leader.
What it will be likely to do will be strengthen the dissident groups - it is a propaganda gift waiting to happen. It just depends what the first controversy will be.
While I don't know what the price of the alliance might be, it will at least include £500m to cover Arlene's RHI disaster.
Corbyn has been a lifelong apologist and supporter of terrorist groups. McDonald has stated clearly that he would disband MI5 and armed police, given the atrocities we have seen in the last couple of weeks would that make you feel safer? would you trust these two to protect you families and this country? Why is this not discussed?
So then we have their "ice cream and jelly" economics, lets promise everyone all these treats and not bother to worry about how it gets paid for. Oh I know we tax the rich so they fuck off then your revenue from them is zero so it's left to the rest of us to pick the bill up, happens every time with a Labour government. Nothing improves it just gets more expensive.McDonald wants the end to capitalism what a great idea! Lets be like Marxist Russia where everyone was equally poor and fucking miserable.
People I am no lover of the Tories but the alternative is too scary to contemplate. Oh and by the way all you Football loving Corbyn supporters out there when they start soaking the rich and your favourite players go off to Spain, Germany etc. you can enjoy watching park football in empty stadiums. Welcome to the future.
I haven't studied it but I don't think the UKIP vote has necessarily moved to the Tories quite like we thought it would, judging by the individual results anyway but hard to fully tell unless you know who voted what this time and who voted what last time. My father in law has switched from UKIP to Labour as he's retired and wants the triple lock (his words not mine), my 22 year old next door but one neighbour has done the same, although he quoted the Uni fee's as his reason to go from UKIp to Labour when I spoke to him.
By the way, kensignton and chelsea didn't, it's just kensington
What made we agree with the robot and the clown comment, think the robot is obvious in relation to May (strong & stable), the clown - just listen to Corbyn's interview I posted above for a highlight, he is very clearly saying he won the election and that he has a mandate to be in power, to be the Prime Minister - really......
The guy is deluded, he talks of having won the election, the only party that should be in power, that he should be forming a government with no deals with anyone. He lost the election, full stop, he may have improved on the result in 2015 but he still lost and has nearly 60 less seats than the Tory's. To form a government he would need every other single party, every single independent and the point most seem to miss he'd probably also need the DUP!
You don't (necessarily) win an election by being the most improved, if you did I suspect we'd have been governed since 2015 by the SNP and UKIP!
So by all means Labour can crow from the roof tops about how well they did, rightly so. If I was Corbyn i'd be doing exactly that. But when the leader of the Labour Party comes out with the clearly idiotic comments he has in the said interview, then yes, I agree with whoever says it and whatever paper they may now or previously have written for, he's a clown. If he can't understand the democratic process of a general election after his what, 40 years in parliament then god help us all if he ever ruled the country.
Who knows what the future holds, i'm not concerned which parties name is above the door, like i'd said previously my last two elections I voted labour. We just need the best people at any given time running this country. Frankly i'd rather it wasn't the robot or the clown, I think both parties are poor for very different reasons. I'm awaiting the day @bobmunro is our leader and we live in a world of Utopia
The football analogy you gave is too ridiculous for comment. Even if it were true, what would the issue be for us Charlton fans!
I think that Theresa May has just nullified any suggestion that Corbyn's "Irish" past links might have had.
I also don't think that Labour has too much of a mountain to climb now. What was the percentage of the vote ? 40% compared to the conservatives ? Figure of ?
Labour's manifesto had some great ideas for football, as I am sure you know as you have obviously read it.
The point you are not grasping is Corbyn, Chakrabarti and others were not saying we did so well, we feel like we won even though we didn't.
They are saying we won.
Corbyn went further, saying he would form a government without making any deals.
Anyone remember Jose Mouhrino claiming Chelsea were unbeaten at home under him, even though Charlton had won there (albeit I think in extra time) ?
The current timetable is for a final consultation on the proposals this autumn to be followed by a final report to parliament late summer 2018 - which then has to be approved by a parliamentary vote.
Before this General Election there were already so many potential 'losers' amongst MPs to put such a vote in doubt. Now with the need to minimise votes on anything to try and sustain the cobbled together alliance with the DUP anything unnecessarily 'controversial' (and the boundary changes are) will almost certainly be avoided (and that's even if the ramshackle arrangement with the DUP survives until then).
We had free school meals for those in the 25-40 yr old age group with school aged children
We had free tuition fees & the promise to wipe out existing debt for the 18-25 year olds - which obviously had no impact on why Canterbury (a large University town) fell to labour for the first time in 100 years.
Perhaps if Corbyn will promise to pay my child maintenance costs for the next 5 years - that will get my vote !
But don't you think Corbyn is playing the long game here? He is putting pressure on the Tories and May and he is getting out the message that he and Labour are ready to govern. It is the classic Tory tactic with a twist, he will say we are ready to govern in the next few days it will be all over the news and when the Tory coalition of chaos crumbles (as it will) people will remember the 'ready to govern' bit as that more than anything with ex-Labour voters is what held him back. The twist is that it keeps the awful coalition in the news and keeps the pressure up.
The message is not aimed at you who would never vote for him.
I really can't see how people are so bothered about Corbyn, Chakrabarti and even I thinking we have won. If you set a target and massively exceed it, it feels like you have won. If you disagree that is fine, but it only shows yourself up if it bothers you.
A couple of months too late.
I can imagine the discussions behind the scenes at Tory HQ