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How do the Tories need to change?

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  • cafcfan said:

    Jeez is this the same jacket from 2009? Or has he a whole stash of them?

    image

    Once you get over 50 you work out what you like and what size it is then you just keep buying the same thing. Saves ever having to go clothes shopping if you do it online.

    Aah, that would explain my Sperry Top-siders then.
  • vffvff
    edited June 2017

    vff said:

    All that the Tories have to do now is ditch Lynton Crosby & campaign positively with proper consideration of policy & look to things that work. Rather than being fixated on the free market, small state, minimal regulation solutions for everything, whether it makes sense or not. Not seeing that they have learnt any lessons yet.

    You mean stop being Tories!
    What I want is for the best approach to be used. If it is a free market or public service approach then the best one should be used. If a public service is working well then it shouldn't be moved into the private market just for the sake of it or because of a dogmatic view.

    Tories have been taken over obsessed / dominated by people who think that the free market is the only answer for anything. This appears to be whether it helps or not or brings in a lot of dysfunction or extra cost. Trains and organization of health are prime example of this. The housing market does not work for everyone and puts huge pressure on just about everyone. Tories do not currently show any signs of learning the lessons or dropping their dogmatic views.
  • I think the tories (strangely my phone tried to autocorrect that to torrid) should adopt the colour purple.

    That and adopt many of the best polling Labour and lib dem policies should do them/us ok.

  • I think Treeza needs to get herself to Reading festival in August (just down the road from her house) and show she's down with the kids, daddy-o, and digs their groovy music. What could possibly go wrong?

  • vff said:

    vff said:

    All that the Tories have to do now is ditch Lynton Crosby & campaign positively with proper consideration of policy & look to things that work. Rather than being fixated on the free market, small state, minimal regulation solutions for everything, whether it makes sense or not. Not seeing that they have learnt any lessons yet.

    You mean stop being Tories!
    What I want is for the best approach to be used. If it is a free market or public service approach then the best one should be used. If a public service is working well then it shouldn't be moved into the private market just for the sake of it or because of a dogmatic view.

    Tories have been taken over obsessed / dominated by people who think that the free market is the only answer for anything. This appears to be whether it helps or not or brings in a lot of dysfunction or extra cost. Trains and organization of health are prime example of this. The housing market does not work for everyone and puts huge pressure on just about everyone. Tories do not currently show any signs of learning the lessons or dropping their dogmatic views.
    It is about vested interests. People make a lot of money out of privitisations, including the stupid ones. Many Tory MPs an their mates/funders do. New Labour were no better - it is a scandal. Of course the losers are the people - but sod them.
  • vff said:

    vff said:

    All that the Tories have to do now is ditch Lynton Crosby & campaign positively with proper consideration of policy & look to things that work. Rather than being fixated on the free market, small state, minimal regulation solutions for everything, whether it makes sense or not. Not seeing that they have learnt any lessons yet.

    You mean stop being Tories!
    What I want is for the best approach to be used. If it is a free market or public service approach then the best one should be used. If a public service is working well then it shouldn't be moved into the private market just for the sake of it or because of a dogmatic view.

    Tories have been taken over obsessed / dominated by people who think that the free market is the only answer for anything. This appears to be whether it helps or not or brings in a lot of dysfunction or extra cost. Trains and organization of health are prime example of this. The housing market does not work for everyone and puts huge pressure on just about everyone. Tories do not currently show any signs of learning the lessons or dropping their dogmatic views.
    It is about vested interests. People make a lot of money out of privitisations, including the stupid ones. Many Tory MPs an their mates/funders do. New Labour were no better - it is a scandal. Of course the losers are the people - but sod them.
    It also brings in a significant cash injection in exchange for having to pay for it later.

    I know the two are not linked but it's similar, when just looked at as a financial transaction, as someone that agrees to borrow money to buy a house and pay
    interest on the loan. They need the money to buy the house up front and end up paying more for it. This is just the same - a huge advance into the pocket of the tax payer in exchange for having to pay more for the utilities in the future to fund the returns (dividends etc.) of those that paid up front to buy the shares.

    All the while there are infinite demands on the public purse and finite resources, there will be debate about how best to find the money needed.

    On the face of it Privatisation is outrageously clever. Take something that belongs to the people, sell it to the people and then charge the people for using it.
  • I think the tories (strangely my phone tried to autocorrect that to torrid) should adopt the colour purple.

    That and adopt many of the best polling Labour and lib dem policies should do

    them/us ok.

    Bellends ?

  • bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40506109

    Another Rees-Mogg - he's got six kids now. The new one's called Sixtus Dominic Boniface Christopher Rees-Mogg. For extra amusement check out the other kids names in the BBC report.
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  • Very interesting bit in the FT today which I can only look at via the Guardian which reports.

    The Financial Times is very good on the government today. George Parker has a long read on Theresa May (paywall), and Parker and James Blitz have a story on Brexit turf wars (paywall).

    Here are some of their key claims.

    Theresa May’s Brexit policy was determined by a very small group before the general election because her co-chiefs of staff, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill, froze out alternative views, the FT says. Timothy and Hill both resigned after the election.

    "Before the election, policymaking on Brexit was straightforward: it was set inside Mrs May’s fortress by an inner circle with Mr Timothy and Ms Hill at its heart and presented to the cabinet as a fait accompli. The “chiefs” controlled all access to the prime minister; unwelcome advice or overly “pessimistic” officials were kept at bay ...

    So when Mrs May set out her “red lines” for the Brexit negotiations at last year’s conference in a speech written by Mr Timothy, there had been no thorough cabinet consultation. Her insistence, for example, that the European Court of Justice could have no future role in a Brexit settlement came out of the blue and left Brexit secretary David Davis “hamstrung” in negotiations, according to James Chapman, his former chief of staff. Mr Timothy, anxious to court working-class voters, was determined that big business should also be kept at arm’s length from Mrs May. The prime minister’s allies now admit this was a mistake: on Friday business leaders will be invited to a Brexit summit at Chevening, a country house near London, hosted by Mr Davis. Business voices are now starting to fill the policy vacuum".


    Philip Hammond, the chancellor, is challenging Liam Fox, the international trade secretary, to prove that gains from new trade deals will outweigh the losses from leaving the customs union (which is necessary if Fox is going to have the freedom to negotiate new trade deals).

    "Mr Hammond is pressing for a long transition during which Britain would retain close ties to the EU, including remaining in the customs union. The Treasury is challenging Liam Fox, international trade secretary, to prove that the deals he hopes to secure when Britain eventually leaves the customs union more than offset an expected loss of trade with the EU. Mr Hammond is vehemently opposed to Mrs May’s threat — or bluff — that Britain could walk away with no deal at all."

    Tory Brexit politics can be seen as a battle between the “fuckers” and the “wankers”, according to quotes which show just what the two sides feel about each other.

    The poison is already running around the system. “We can work with half the Labour party and crush the fuckers,” says one Conservative MP, referring to his Eurosceptic colleagues. A leading pro-Brexit MP says he would not tolerate threats from the “wankers” on his party’s pro-European wing.

    Some Tories are critical of the role the Brexit department plays in the process.

    Some are critical of the role played by the Department for Exiting the EU (Dexeu).

    “Dexeu is supposed to be a secretariat drawing together a common Whitehall position on Brexit,” said one official. “But the central problem we face is that Dexeu is also a department whose lead minister [Davis] has a strong view of what Brexit should look like. It is both a player and a referee and it can’t be both.”

    Some senior figures remain particularly critical of what they say is the secretive role played by Olly Robbins, the permanent secretary at Dexeu who is also the prime minister’s chief Sherpa at the Brexit negotiations ...

    Even inside Dexeu, there is unease about how Mr Robbins manages his dual role, reporting to Mr Davis and to Mrs May. “It can get very confused,” says one departmental figure. “Sometimes Olly has sent papers up to Number 10 which David Davis doesn’t get to see. Sometimes Nick Timothy would get sent papers from Olly that nobody else did.”


    So the wankers and the fuckers!
  • When I was driving yesterday I heard Chris Patten and Vince Cable interviewed separately. Maybe I'm out of touch with the so called man in the street but these two men with some differing views both seemed sensible and far more in tune with what is needed in this country right now. May and Corbyn seem on course to rip us apart whatever happens to Government over the coming years.
  • seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    A wise man just said to me that governments shouldn't be allowed to continue after ten years. A third election victory and they get all cocky, they forget there is another perspective, and they start implementing the extreme rubbish that they couldn't push through in their first and second terms.

    That man, my son will be 19 soon and is of a generation who will never vote for the blue party.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Sinn Fein are not going anywhere near the DUP/Tories - not for me to expand on the whys and wherefores - all we can note is that Major was unable to maintain the ceasefire beyond a year back in the 90s. It was Labour and back channels to the "hard men" which delivered the GFA.

    The Tories are marching towards a point where they will not win power for a generation.
  • IdleHans said:



    What could possibly go wrong?

    None of the bottles of piss hit her ?
  • Have they not gone awfully quiet since the cheering of freezing the pay of nurses and firemen? Have even the staunchest right wingers woken up to the vindictive cowards that run that party? I for one will never, ever, stop reminding any of their supporters of that moment, no matter how often they shout "Diane Abbott"...
  • cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    ......all surrounded by a massive 'keep the fuck out' wall that carried the slogan......"Build Bridges not walls" as a message to Trump :smiley:
  • cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    Is Corbyn a millionaire? Evidence please and don't say he has a house in Islington worth X as that would make half of London millionaires.
  • cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    Is Corbyn a millionaire? Evidence please and don't say he has a house in Islington worth X as that would make half of London millionaires.
    Well, I would indeed go as far as saying that half of london's landlords/homeowners are indeed millionaires
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  • edited July 2017

    cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    Is Corbyn a millionaire? Evidence please and don't say he has a house in Islington worth X as that would make half of London millionaires.
    Well, you work it out. He's on what £125k a year as leader of the opposition, he's been on an MPs pay for 34 years. Let's be kind and say his house is heavily mortgaged so he's got little equity in it. (In truth, at his age the mortgage will have been paid off though and his modest abode must be an asset worth 6/7 hundred k.) He has a very modest lifestyle: never had a car, clearly doesn't buy designer clothes. Presumably he's taking the state pension too?
    So, unless he's got some gambling, drug or alcohol habit, even if he hadn't made sensible investment decisions, it would surely be impossible for him not to be?

    If he isn't, why would you want him running the country when he can't even run himself?

    Edited to add: yeah he is taking the state pension, I remember now that he "forgot" to put this or another local govt. pension he's in receipt of on his tax return!
  • Saw this on facebook during glastonbury - i thought to myself, if that is true, I'm surprised the Tories weren't banging the millionaire drum during the election.

    Never saw so much supposition going into explaining it though. Congrats.

    A simple, 'I have no evidence' would have done.
  • edited July 2017
    We've just had two Prime Ministers that seemed very interested in enriching themselves, it's not what I would consider a virtue for holding office any more. While Pitt the younger died owing £40,000, quite a lot of money in 1806 and another Tory the taxpayer ended up footing the bill for.

    I keep hearing we live in a time of record employment but not so much about how it is also record levels of in work poverty. Also hard work is only a bastion of the rich.

    While there is no denying the irony you mention, I would rather have a bunch of rich people telling me we can make the system fairer than we should be happy with the inequalities that exist.
  • So if you're rich you're not allowed to have an opinion on poverty?
  • cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    There was nothing about capitalism failing, unless you think the Torries and capitalism are the same thing?
  • edited July 2017
    cafcfan said:

    cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    Is Corbyn a millionaire? Evidence please and don't say he has a house in Islington worth X as that would make half of London millionaires.
    Well, you work it out. He's on what £125k a year as leader of the opposition, he's been on an MPs pay for 34 years. Let's be kind and say his house is heavily mortgaged so he's got little equity in it. (In truth, at his age the mortgage will have been paid off though and his modest abode must be an asset worth 6/7 hundred k.) He has a very modest lifestyle: never had a car, clearly doesn't buy designer clothes. Presumably he's taking the state pension too?
    So, unless he's got some gambling, drug or alcohol habit, even if he hadn't made sensible investment decisions, it would surely be impossible for him not to be?

    If he isn't, why would you want him running the country when he can't even run himself?

    Edited to add: yeah he is taking the state pension, I remember now that he "forgot" to put this or another local govt. pension he's in receipt of on his tax return!
    You don't really believe that do you? You might need to look beyond the Daily Mail for inspiration.

    http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/business-news/politics/how-rich-is-labour-leader-jeremy-corbyn/11776.article
  • cafcfan said:

    cafcfan said:

    seth plum said:

    Tory Northern Ireland Secretary James Brokenshire is supposed to have sorted out the lack of a Northern Ireland government by now.
    Why should he bother any more when the Tories have sided with the DUP to the tune of billion and a half quid?
    The Tory reprehensible political deal in Northern Ireland, combined with a collapse in power sharing, combined with the hard border created by a Tory Brexit is beginning to look like a perfect storm brewing.
    The true nature of the Tories is power at any price for what looks like self serving reasons, if there are genuine problems in the country the Tory solution is to let the charities sort it out.
    Yesterday in PMQ's Theresa May was overjoyed telling us that difficult decisions need to be taken.
    By mid day the day after the election she had already taken the difficult decision to bribe the DUP in order to hang on to power.
    Labour might be a disaster waiting to happen, but the Tories are a disaster actually happening.

    Corbyn has a vision and they are now chanting his name at music festivals to the seven nation army tune.

    Yeah, a millionaire (Corbyn) standing next to another millionaire (Eavis) who has just charged the audience £238 each (plus booking fee) to listen to other millionaires sing and telling them that capitalism has failed them. Go figure.
    Is Corbyn a millionaire? Evidence please and don't say he has a house in Islington worth X as that would make half of London millionaires.
    Well, you work it out. He's on what £125k a year as leader of the opposition, he's been on an MPs pay for 34 years. Let's be kind and say his house is heavily mortgaged so he's got little equity in it. (In truth, at his age the mortgage will have been paid off though and his modest abode must be an asset worth 6/7 hundred k.) He has a very modest lifestyle: never had a car, clearly doesn't buy designer clothes. Presumably he's taking the state pension too?
    So, unless he's got some gambling, drug or alcohol habit, even if he hadn't made sensible investment decisions, it would surely be impossible for him not to be?

    If he isn't, why would you want him running the country when he can't even run himself?

    Edited to add: yeah he is taking the state pension, I remember now that he "forgot" to put this or another local govt. pension he's in receipt of on his tax return!
    Alternatively you might want the aristocracy and Eton crew running the country where they are so remote from the world that we actually live in they don't have a fucking clue.

  • There is quite a choice of things people might want to dig Corbyn out about, but accusations of being a hypocritical capitalist seem pretty lame and desperate.
  • edited July 2017
    seth plum said:

    There is quite a choice of things people might want to dig Corbyn out about, but accusations of being a hypocritical capitalist seem pretty lame and desperate.

    I merely described him as a millionaire, which he is. (To be fair, I didn't even include his £1.6mn pension pot from his time as an MP.)
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!