If Moeen had not got out to Lyon in this series and taken the same number of extra wickets himself, the difference between the two would be just a single wicket.
There have been a few moans on here, before and during the series about BT Sports coverage. Well I'd like to say I think it has been excellent. Ponting and Gilchrist have been superb, not bias in the slightest and Gilchrist in particular has been very sympathetic. Graeme Swann could learn a thing or two from them.
Looking at the way Cook has got out, five of them are where he has been playing the ball as late and far back as Ballance - with the same result against pace.
I can't really add anything. Our bowling has been shite, the batting has been worse and we completely underestimated Australia. I can't see that we had any sort of plan of attack to go after their key players.
One thing I 100% agree with Boycott about if the desperate lack of decent preparation matches before and during these series for ALL away teams now.
It'll be exactly the same when Australia come over to England, they'll have a couple of matches against the Northants second XI leaving them undercooked for the series. Something has to be done by the ICC about this, as Test series are becoming far too dominated by the home teams
Now we have lost the Ashes, the time for change is now. Drop Cook, Broad and Ali. Some of these England players have become too comfortable and seem to be undroppable. At the end of the series the positions of Bayliss and Farbrace need looking at.
One thing I 100% agree with Boycott about if the desperate lack of decent preparation matches before and during these series for ALL away teams now.
It'll be exactly the same when Australia come over to England, they'll have a couple of matches against the Northants second XI leaving them undercooked for the series. Something has to be done by the ICC about this, as Test series are becoming far too dominated by the home teams
The current international calendar simply does not allow for this anymore. 20 years ago there was no cricket played between May and September anywhere in the world apart from England. Now there are all sorts of competitions and series's going on in the subcontinent, Africa and the Caribbean. Touring teams to England will arrive without their IPL players who will join them later. I'm not so sure about now but it was only 3 or 4 years ago when there was only 5 days in the whole year when there wasn't international cricket being played. Australia are off to S Africa next year, they always win there.
One thing I 100% agree with Boycott about if the desperate lack of decent preparation matches before and during these series for ALL away teams now.
It'll be exactly the same when Australia come over to England, they'll have a couple of matches against the Northants second XI leaving them undercooked for the series. Something has to be done by the ICC about this, as Test series are becoming far too dominated by the home teams
The current international calendar simply does not allow for this anymore. 20 years ago there was no cricket played between May and September anywhere in the world apart from England. Now there are all sorts of competitions and series's going on in the subcontinent, Africa and the Caribbean. Touring teams to England will arrive without their IPL players who will join them later. I'm not so sure about now but it was only 3 or 4 years ago when there was only 5 days in the whole year when there wasn't international cricket being played. Australia are off to S Africa next year, they always win there.
At least when touring teams play practice matches, they should play a decent level of opposition though, not some Chairman's pub team!
To a degree but, almost certainly, Stokes would have come in for Malan who has been our best batsman country mile scoring 302 runs at 50.33 average.
Stokes would have come in for Overton ball or woakes
That's fair comment although it wouldn't have helped out our left hand issue simply because we would then have had seven of them in the side - only Vince, Root, Bairstow and Woakes (or Overton/Ball) being the exceptions.
We can't drop Ali after the way he's played for the last two years, whoever suggested that. But change is clearly necessary.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman 2) Hameed 3) Root (c, for now) 4) Malan 5) Stokes 6) Bairstow 7) Foakes (wk) 8) Ali 9) Woakes 10) Broad 11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
We can't drop Ali after the way he's played for the last two years, whoever suggested that. But change is clearly necessary.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman 2) Hameed 3) Root (c, for now) 4) Malan 5) Stokes 6) Bairstow 7) Foakes (wk) 8) Ali 9) Woakes 10) Broad 11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
I think if you were to play Foakes as keeper then we've got to utilise Bairstows batting ability in the top 5.
We can't drop Ali after the way he's played for the last two years, whoever suggested that. But change is clearly necessary.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman 2) Hameed 3) Root (c, for now) 4) Malan 5) Stokes 6) Bairstow 7) Foakes (wk) 8) Ali 9) Woakes 10) Broad 11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
I think if you were to play Foakes as keeper then we've got to utilise Bairstows batting ability in the top 5.
Fair - swap round Stokes and Bairstow and we might have a decent looking side there
One thing I 100% agree with Boycott about if the desperate lack of decent preparation matches before and during these series for ALL away teams now.
It'll be exactly the same when Australia come over to England, they'll have a couple of matches against the Northants second XI leaving them undercooked for the series. Something has to be done by the ICC about this, as Test series are becoming far too dominated by the home teams
The current international calendar simply does not allow for this anymore. 20 years ago there was no cricket played between May and September anywhere in the world apart from England. Now there are all sorts of competitions and series's going on in the subcontinent, Africa and the Caribbean. Touring teams to England will arrive without their IPL players who will join them later. I'm not so sure about now but it was only 3 or 4 years ago when there was only 5 days in the whole year when there wasn't international cricket being played. Australia are off to S Africa next year, they always win there.
Exactly right.
Perfect example is India currently have an ongoing series at home to Sri Lanka which finishes on christmas eve. On 5 Jan their test series away in South Africa starts. Literally no time for a proper warm up match, so they'll just train in South Africa instead.
We can't drop Ali after the way he's played for the last two years, whoever suggested that. But change is clearly necessary.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman 2) Hameed 3) Root (c, for now) 4) Malan 5) Stokes 6) Bairstow 7) Foakes (wk) 8) Ali 9) Woakes 10) Broad 11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
When I read that Ali is 'undroppable' I'm genuinely confused. He's been a decent batsman for England but his bowling has been average at best (the South Africa and Bangladesh series were exceptions) and he was bloody awful in India and the UAE on pitches any decent spinner would have salivated over. What are you and Leuth seeing that I've missed?
He was pretty much our best batsman in India tbf...he's generally put on a performance with either bat or ball. This series is looking like an exception but I'd like to see how he does as part of a spin duo
Waiting for management to come out with ' this unit has under performed and they know it, but they are eager to get something out of the last two tests and they deserve the chance to blah blah blah....'
Of course Ali can be dropped. No-one is saying that he wont play again, just rested. The seriess is over so we have 2 tests where other players can get a chance to show what they can do. Play Crane, Foakes & whoever else is out there & even draft in someone from the Lions squad. I don't watch any County matches but what I've seen of any one-dayers on tv Curran looks half decent.
The way the team is currently being picked you'd have thought KR was one of the selectors.
There may be some team problems. I'm not convinced by Root as captain and that may be an issue - it's unlikely we'll ever know. However, I do think we are just at a low point at the moment with a lack of talent exacerbated by Stokes' absence. Several have suggested alternative teams, but, in truth, I am not sure they would make much difference. We are short of two good batsmen, two good bowlers and Cook/Broad/Anderson are not getting any younger. Added to that is the fact that we play most 4 day County games in April, May and September and the Test players lurch from one series to the next without many breaks. It's hard to see a quick solution.
Waiting for management to come out with ' this unit has under performed and they know it, but they are eager to get something out of the last two tests and they deserve the chance to blah blah blah....'
"We have to take the positives"
No idea while Moeen keeps getting out to Lyon, I don't recall him being weak against spinners in the past
The tail struggling against the Aussie quicks is at least more understandable
We can't drop Ali after the way he's played for the last two years, whoever suggested that. But change is clearly necessary.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman 2) Hameed 3) Root (c, for now) 4) Malan 5) Stokes 6) Bairstow 7) Foakes (wk) 8) Ali 9) Woakes 10) Broad 11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
When I read that Ali is 'undroppable' I'm genuinely confused. He's been a decent batsman for England but his bowling has been average at best (the South Africa and Bangladesh series were exceptions) and he was bloody awful in India and the UAE on pitches any decent spinner would have salivated over. What are you and Leuth seeing that I've missed?
The reality is that Ali is not a great "spinner" of the ball. He does a job, mainly at home and is a very good batsman to come in at 7 or 8. But we shouldn't need to rely on his batting as we have and have really sacrificed the ability to turn a ball with someone like Rashid (who will admittedly go for runs) for someone who will fulfill the job of rescuing our batting when we've lost the top six batsmen.
To put things in perspective, Ali averages with the bat 33.38 in Tests - at home it is 38.73 but away drops to 26.72. With the ball he has taken in total 131 wickets at 38.87 - at home 82 wickets at 33.48 but away it drops to 49 wickets at 47.92. Home and away against Australia Ali has taken 15 wickets @ 57.47 - even in the home series his 12 wickets cost 45.50.
Rashid has never played a Test in this country. On his debut in 2015 against Pakistan in Dubai he took 8 wickets at 69.50. However, a year later in Bangladesh and India he took 30 wickets @ 35.67 against the best players of spin in the world. By comparison, in the same two series, Ali took 21 wickets @ 42.91.
We can't drop Ali after the way he's played for the last two years, whoever suggested that. But change is clearly necessary.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman 2) Hameed 3) Root (c, for now) 4) Malan 5) Stokes 6) Bairstow 7) Foakes (wk) 8) Ali 9) Woakes 10) Broad 11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
When I read that Ali is 'undroppable' I'm genuinely confused. He's been a decent batsman for England but his bowling has been average at best (the South Africa and Bangladesh series were exceptions) and he was bloody awful in India and the UAE on pitches any decent spinner would have salivated over. What are you and Leuth seeing that I've missed?
The reality is that Ali is not a great "spinner" of the ball. He does a job, mainly at home and is a very good batsman to come in at 7 or 8. But we shouldn't need to rely on his batting as we have and have really sacrificed the ability to turn a ball with someone like Rashid (who will admittedly go for runs) for someone who will fulfill the job of rescuing our batting when we've lost the top six batsmen.
To put things in perspective, Ali averages with the bat 33.38 in Tests - at home it is 38.73 but away drops to 26.72. With the ball he has taken in total 131 wickets at 38.87 - at home 82 wickets at 33.48 but away it drops to 49 wickets at 47.92. Home and away against Australia Ali has taken 15 wickets @ 57.47 - even in the home series his 12 wickets cost 45.50.
Rashid has never played a Test in this country. On his debut in 2015 against Pakistan in Dubai he took 8 wickets at 69.50. However, a year later in Bangladesh and India he took 30 wickets @ 35.67 against the best players of spin in the world. By comparison, in the same two series, Ali took 21 wickets @ 42.91.
Interesting stats, though England as whole are basically "homers".
I wonder if he gets more wickets at home due to the increased pressure exerted by the seamers. With the ball nipping/swinging around, batsmen are far more likely to take liberties against his off spin.
Comments
Looks like it might come true...
It'll be exactly the same when Australia come over to England, they'll have a couple of matches against the Northants second XI leaving them undercooked for the series. Something has to be done by the ICC about this, as Test series are becoming far too dominated by the home teams
Australia are off to S Africa next year, they always win there.
English batsmen no longer seem to be able to occupy the crease and frustrate the opposition bowlers if conditions are not favourable.
Anderson has to stay for the next series in English conditions and the Yorkshire pair, Root and Bairstow, too.
I think everyone else is up for review although lack of alternatives will mean in reality that others who played in Australia will get games.
EDIT: On reflection I've been harsh towards Malan perhaps.
However, that's going to be tempered by the fact our next series will be in English conditions, and we're going to probably have the beating of Pakistan and India because Duke ball/swing/green tops/rain and so on. That's the way all the time though - home advantage is huge in Tests.
Anyway. As for actual things I'd like to see:
- Cook to retire with dignity after this series and us to blood someone like, but not necessarily, Hameed
- Root to bat at 3. Also, I wonder about the captaincy, as he's not really taken to it imo
- Stokes not be charged, because we clearly missed him
An ideal line-up vs Pakistan (I forget injuries by the way so do correct me if this wouldn't be possible) would be something like this, in my opinion:
1) Stoneman
2) Hameed
3) Root (c, for now)
4) Malan
5) Stokes
6) Bairstow
7) Foakes (wk)
8) Ali
9) Woakes
10) Broad
11) Anderson
I know I'm missing Overton/Ball/Wood/TRJ et al, but there's a lot of players in that fast-medium-can-bat-a-bit profile, who will probably eventually replace Jimmy and Broady.
Perfect example is India currently have an ongoing series at home to Sri Lanka which finishes on christmas eve. On 5 Jan their test series away in South Africa starts. Literally no time for a proper warm up match, so they'll just train in South Africa instead.
The way the team is currently being picked you'd have thought KR was one of the selectors.
No idea while Moeen keeps getting out to Lyon, I don't recall him being weak against spinners in the past
The tail struggling against the Aussie quicks is at least more understandable
To put things in perspective, Ali averages with the bat 33.38 in Tests - at home it is 38.73 but away drops to 26.72. With the ball he has taken in total 131 wickets at 38.87 - at home 82 wickets at 33.48 but away it drops to 49 wickets at 47.92. Home and away against Australia Ali has taken 15 wickets @ 57.47 - even in the home series his 12 wickets cost 45.50.
Rashid has never played a Test in this country. On his debut in 2015 against Pakistan in Dubai he took 8 wickets at 69.50. However, a year later in Bangladesh and India he took 30 wickets @ 35.67 against the best players of spin in the world. By comparison, in the same two series, Ali took 21 wickets @ 42.91.
I wonder if he gets more wickets at home due to the increased pressure exerted by the seamers. With the ball nipping/swinging around, batsmen are far more likely to take liberties against his off spin.
Cook/Hameed/Jennings
Stoneman
Root
Bairstow
Malan
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Overton/Wood/TRJ
Rashid
Anderson
I'd also be tempted to take the captaincy from Root and give it to Bairstow if he struggles in the upcoming English summer or the next winter tour.