Nonsense I’d expect all European leaders and juncker and all his cronies to condem the actions of the Spanish government in the way it assaulted and beat its citizens
And the reason they won’t is they don’t want dissection within the ranks
No-one wants that NLA, cos that means they'd be cutting each other open to inspect their insides, which'd get messy very quickly. You mean dissension I think.
It's been said a few times by the posters on this thread who know far more about the situation than me (and I'm really thankful, particularly to the guys in Spain, for the clarifications) that we shouldn't draw parallels with the things that have happened Ireland. However I'm wondering if this is similar to the beginning of the Irish uprising in Easter 1916. At the time many of the Irish population didn't support the aims of the Irish nationalists but the British response was very heavy handed which encouraged a lot of sympathy with the cause amongst the Irish. Is it possible that there are parallels there ?
It's been said a few times by the posters on this thread who know far more about the situation than me (and I'm really thankful, particularly to the guys in Spain, for the clarifications) that we shouldn't draw parallels with the things that have happened Ireland. However I'm wondering if this is similar to the beginning of the Irish uprising in Easter 1916. At the time many of the Irish population didn't support the aims of the Irish nationalists but the British response was very heavy handed which encouraged a lot of sympathy with the cause amongst the Irish. Is it possible that there are parallels there ?
While it's been a heavy handed response by Madrid, they've not dragged the leaders of the Catalan govt off to Montjuich and shot them after a perfunctory court martial. There are certainly parallels with the political elements of the Spanish state forces being hostile to any form of Catalan nationalism in the same way that most British army officers were hostile to Irish nationalism (even mutinying in support of the Ulster Protestants). But I think there are other forces within Spain who would restrain the most radical Spanish nationalists/fascists within the Guardia Civil or Army. It was reported this morning that the UDI is coming this week. I think what happens after will depend on whether the roughly 50% of the population in Catalonia who don't agree with independence respond and how the Madrid govt handle it. On the past few weeks, I imagine Madrid will handle it badly.
It's been said a few times by the posters on this thread who know far more about the situation than me (and I'm really thankful, particularly to the guys in Spain, for the clarifications) that we shouldn't draw parallels with the things that have happened Ireland. However I'm wondering if this is similar to the beginning of the Irish uprising in Easter 1916. At the time many of the Irish population didn't support the aims of the Irish nationalists but the British response was very heavy handed which encouraged a lot of sympathy with the cause amongst the Irish. Is it possible that there are parallels there ?
While it's been a heavy handed response by Madrid, they've not dragged the leaders of the Catalan govt off to Montjuich and shot them after a perfunctory court martial. There are certainly parallels with the political elements of the Spanish state forces being hostile to any form of Catalan nationalism in the same way that most British army officers were hostile to Irish nationalism (even mutinying in support of the Ulster Protestants). But I think there are other forces within Spain who would restrain the most radical Spanish nationalists/fascists within the Guardia Civil or Army. It was reported this morning that the UDI is coming this week. I think what happens after will depend on whether the roughly 50% of the population in Catalonia who don't agree with independence respond and how the Madrid govt handle it. On the past few weeks, I imagine Madrid will handle it badly.
I don't think the leaders of the independence movement emerge with a great deal of credit either - I'm not really sure what a fragmented Spain is going to achieve given the history of the country.
If independence is declared in the next 10 days I'm unclear how the Spanish government will stop it and what the implication will be for other nationalist movements in Europe.
I agree with both the previous posts and good to hear @sillybilly is about to get on the links. You actually got more than we did last night. There were two major ítems on Spanish/Catalan tv last night. The first was a speech by the King. I was expecting something to promote dialogue and calm things down, but the tone was quite different. He basically accused the Catalan leaders of formenting secession with an ilegal referéndum, fracturing society and inciting hatred. The other ítem of news was that Puigdemont announced in an interview with the BBC that Independence will be announced within days, which has generally been taken as being anytime up to early next week. My wife found some reports that one of the chiefs of the Mossos D'Esquadra resigned last night on being told that ongoing plans will include another general strike, declaring Independence and seizing Barcelona airport. I've avoided putting these unconfirmed bits on so far (as I can't find confirmation - she reckons she found some on the web this morning) but she has a very high strike rate so far re. the Mayoress of Calella and the paying tax to Catalunya.
Wheteher or not the Independence leaders sieze the airport, declaring Independence unilaterally (and they have no support outside Catalunya bar Alex Salmond, Nigel Farage and bizarrely this morning Hristo Stoichkov) would move everything much nearer the Irish uprising. My Reading, and bear in mind this is just my view from on the ground without an overview or contact with anyone important, is that Madrid would have to respond. Almost any sort of effective response would be judged too much here, but logically, Spain would feel the need to stop this fast. So among a list of options, start with arresting the Independence leadership, and work up via Pólice intervention, which worked so well last time, up to tropos on the Street. @se9addick pointed out and it's a general rule anywhere, that almost any of those response would certainly be regarded with fury by the 42% who voted for Independence, and depending on the way they were implemented, it's dificult to see how the last two options could achieve anything without pushing people. The Independistas would logically block the entrances to the Catalan Parliament and any other buildings deemed worthwhile, in a 'peacefull' way. So would the pólice pack up and go home or attempt to push their way in, dragging people aside, and risking another wave of hatred from the rest of the world.
At the moment, the brinkmanship is all with Puigdemont. Short term, he can push ahead here in Catalunya, and any response will be deemed 'supression', 'undemocratic' or 'Franco-ist' by his legions. But there is around half the population here who are sitting back open mouthed and can't believe how far this guy has been allowed to go. If he had 80% (and I'm sure he is hoping for a violent response he can decry in order to creata a wave of support) he would find himself at least with some sort of mandate in Catalunya. But he lacks even that. What he has got is that his supporters are fully mobilised, and that isn't going away. Who we pay taxes to here may become academic as the country begins to shut down.
I agree with both the previous posts and good to hear @sillybilly is about to get on the links. You actually got more than we did last night. There were two major ítems on Spanish/Catalan tv last night. The first was a speech by the King. I was expecting something to promote dialogue and calm things down, but the tone was quite different. He basically accused the Catalan leaders of formenting secession with an ilegal referéndum, fracturing society and inciting hatred. The other ítem of news was that Puigdemont announced in an interview with the BBC that Independence will be announced within days, which has generally been taken as being anytime up to early next week. My wife found some reports that one of the chiefs of the Mossos D'Esquadra resigned last night on being told that ongoing plans will include another general strike, declaring Independence and seizing Barcelona airport. I've avoided putting these unconfirmed bits on so far (as I can't find confirmation - she reckons she found some on the web this morning) but she has a very high strike rate so far re. the Mayoress of Calella and the paying tax to Catalunya.
Wheteher or not the Independence leaders sieze the airport, declaring Independence unilaterally (and they have no support outside Catalunya bar Alex Salmond, Nigel Farage and bizarrely this morning Hristo Stoichkov) would move everything much nearer the Irish uprising. My Reading, and bear in mind this is just my view from on the ground without an overview or contact with anyone important, is that Madrid would have to respond. Almost any sort of effective response would be judged too much here, but logically, Spain would feel the need to stop this fast. So among a list of options, start with arresting the Independence leadership, and work up via Pólice intervention, which worked so well last time, up to tropos on the Street. @se9addick pointed out and it's a general rule anywhere, that almost any of those response would certainly be regarded with fury by the 42% who voted for Independence, and depending on the way they were implemented, it's dificult to see how the last two options could achieve anything without pushing people. The Independistas would logically block the entrances to the Catalan Parliament and any other buildings deemed worthwhile, in a 'peacefull' way. So would the pólice pack up and go home or attempt to push their way in, dragging people aside, and risking another wave of hatred from the rest of the world.
At the moment, the brinkmanship is all with Puigdemont. Short term, he can push ahead here in Catalunya, and any response will be deemed 'supression', 'undemocratic' or 'Franco-ist' by his legions. But there is around half the population here who are sitting back open mouthed and can't believe how far this guy has been allowed to go. If he had 80% (and I'm sure he is hoping for a violent response he can decry in order to creata a wave of support) he would find himself at least with some sort of mandate in Catalunya. But he lacks even that. What he has got is that his supporters are fully mobilised, and that isn't going away. Who we pay taxes to here may become academic as the country begins to shut down.
Sorry to hear what a mess things are becoming - it does seem the independence leaders want a violent response that they can use to promote their cause. Must be very worrying to be there....
The approach that Madrid takes, in response to any actions by the Catalan nationalists, will be key. What would happen, I wonder, if (rather than seeking to retake the airports, etc.) the Spanish suthorities were to take a range of measures short of physical intervention on the streets? If they wanted to come down hard against secession, short of deploying police and troops, they could close Catalan airspace and hinder land and sea access, require banks to close and seek to bring the Catalan economy to a standstill (even for a matter of days). But, almost anything that they are likely to do will raise hackles.
For me, the most likely and dangerous parallel with Ireland in 1916 that could be that the authorities would introduce internment without trial (as I've mentioned elsewhere, this kind of measure is counter productive).
I wouldn't give the independence leaders credit, as such, just recognise they've so far achieved a lot of their objectives in provoking an over the top response from Rajoy. While the Catalan nationalists are opportunistic, I'm generally against fascist bully boys with silly hats laying into civilians. I also think there's a lot more at play here and the pushing of independence has been decried at least by some as a distraction from the cuts implemented by the Catalan govt.
Eventually got into Barcelona last night and travelled down to Cambrils. All quiet. Will report anything of interest. Golf course beckons.
My Dad is heading out to Barcelona today, so hopefully it stays quiet for him. He cancelled a planned holiday to Dubai via Turkey as he was worried about the political and terrorism situation so thought Spain would be better!
As it stands, tourists are simply bystanders in this. My Friends were here (albeit before it really went into high gear) and were amazed at what they found themselves in. However it's changing by the moment now. The head of the Catalan Pólice was informed an hour ago he has to appear in Madrid charged with sedtion. To be honest, I can't see him making that trip. As I said, if he just enjoys the bars and doesn't get involved with flag waving and protest, it should all be fine. But it's not a good situation really.
As I said, if he just enjoys the bars and doesn't get involved with flag waving and protest, it should all be fine. But it's not a good situation really.
The only thing my Dad will be protesting is how many shops my Step-Mum makes him go into!
Gerard Pique came in for lots of stick today at a Spanish national team training open session. Often outspoken about Catalan independence to gee up the Barcelona fans but happy to play for the national team has led to a lot of suggestions of hypocrisy, which seems pretty fair enough to me.
A bit harsh. Nobody questions Andy Murray's patriotism when he plays in the Davis Cup, but he voted for Scottish Independence. A Scottish athlete might support independence, but nobody would expect them to boycott the British Olympic team
If the Scots held an illegal referendum and he supported the subsequent unilateral Declaration of Independence I am pretty sure Andy Murray would withdraw from the Davis cup and Olympic teams.
Don't understand Pique's stance. He seems passionate about independence. Why does he want to continue to play for the Spanish national side?
I guess the answer is because it suits him to do so.
Famous Scottish independence mouthpiece Sean Connery was more than happy to accept his knighthood. You could argue that he might view Her Majesty as queen of Scotland so why not. You might also argue that Scottish Nationalism would have been better served had he not.
Gerard Pique came in for lots of stick today at a Spanish national team training open session. Often outspoken about Catalan independence to gee up the Barcelona fans but happy to play for the national team has led to a lot of suggestions of hypocrisy, which seems pretty fair enough to me.
A bit harsh. Nobody questions Andy Murray's patriotism when he plays in the Davis Cup, but he voted for Scottish Independence. A Scottish athlete might support independence, but nobody would expect them to boycott the British Olympic team
If the Scots held an illegal referendum and he supported the subsequent unilateral Declaration of Independence I am pretty sure Andy Murray would withdraw from the Davis cup and Olympic teams.
Don't understand Pique's stance. He seems passionate about independence. Why does he want to continue to play for the Spanish national side?
I guess the answer is because it suits him to do so.
Famous Scottish independence mouthpiece Sean Connery was more than happy to accept his knighthood. You could argue that he might view Her Majesty as queen of Scotland so why not. You might also argue that Scottish Nationalism would have been better served had he not.
Fair enough! It's freedom of speech, smething Puigdemont and Jonqueras would say they are being denied. Having said that, Pique's position is fairly incoherent. If he wants to be Catalan and for them to have Independence, why defend the coulours of a nation many Catalans look upon as opressors. If they do get Independence, he'll be out anyway as Catalunya will have it's own team.
Latest ítem here is that Puigdemont will be speaking on TV tonight. CUP and JxSi, two of the most radical Independence parties, are trying to get things ready for a declaration of Independence next monday, but there is a rumour it will happen tonight. Another bit of news is that one of the injred protesters on sunday who appeared on TV telling everyone that the Guardia Civil broke her fingers one by one, has appeared on Catalan TV and admitted she has no broken fingers. just a sprain in one. As she is a member of the ERC, another radical Catalan Independence party, it suggests these guys knew they had a posible public relations triumph on hand, and seized it- Another of the elderly who was on TV with a bleeding head turns out to have fallen of her own volition at a polling station where the pólice were absent. Obviously, this hardly negates some of the pictures that circulated on sunday, but it should bring a bit of context to them. The liberation brigada are not amateurs, and since the Vietnam war, most politicians and their adherents know there is propaganda to be made with a TV camera.
If Catalunya gets independence and the leaders make a right royal f***up and the economy tanks who will everyone blame then?
I'm assuming the independence leaders have consulted our Brexit negotiation team for planning advice.
I imagine loads of really detailed planning has taken place and all the implications thought through? I'm sure the Spanish government will be more than happy to write off any existing debt.
I would imagine it would only take a few days to implement the detailed plans that have been drawn up and to replace any of the functions that are currently carried out by central government.
Hopefully they can get Farage involved as a consultant....
Eventually got into Barcelona last night and travelled down to Cambrils. All quiet. Will report anything of interest. Golf course beckons.
My Dad is heading out to Barcelona today, so hopefully it stays quiet for him. He cancelled a planned holiday to Dubai via Turkey as he was worried about the political and terrorism situation so thought Spain would be better!
Ironically so did we. We go to the algarve every year in October but left it late this year and couldn’t get our desired tee times. We thought thought about turkey. A couple of the lads were worried about Terrorism so we opted for Catalunya on the recommendation of our agent. As it happens, apart from our flight being cancelled yesterday at short notice we’ve had no problems. Golf today was fine and we’ll be out on the town in Cambrils tonight. Lots of Catalunyan flags on the roadside as we travelled to the golf course today but no obvious signs of unrest otherwise. Will have a better view after a night in the restaurants and bars.
Eventually got into Barcelona last night and travelled down to Cambrils. All quiet. Will report anything of interest. Golf course beckons.
My Dad is heading out to Barcelona today, so hopefully it stays quiet for him. He cancelled a planned holiday to Dubai via Turkey as he was worried about the political and terrorism situation so thought Spain would be better!
Ironically so did we. We go to the algarve every year in October but left it late this year and couldn’t get our desired tee times. We thought thought about turkey. A couple of the lads were worried about Terrorism so we opted for Catalunya on the recommendation of our agent. As it happens, apart from our flight being cancelled yesterday at short notice we’ve had no problems. Golf today was fine and we’ll be out on the town in Cambrils tonight. Lots of Catalunyan flags on the roadside as we travelled to the golf course today but no obvious signs of unrest otherwise. Will have a better view after a night in the restaurants and bars.
Eventually got into Barcelona last night and travelled down to Cambrils. All quiet. Will report anything of interest. Golf course beckons.
My Dad is heading out to Barcelona today, so hopefully it stays quiet for him. He cancelled a planned holiday to Dubai via Turkey as he was worried about the political and terrorism situation so thought Spain would be better!
Ironically so did we. We go to the algarve every year in October but left it late this year and couldn’t get our desired tee times. We thought thought about turkey. A couple of the lads were worried about Terrorism so we opted for Catalunya on the recommendation of our agent. As it happens, apart from our flight being cancelled yesterday at short notice we’ve had no problems. Golf today was fine and we’ll be out on the town in Cambrils tonight. Lots of Catalunyan flags on the roadside as we travelled to the golf course today but no obvious signs of unrest otherwise. Will have a better view after a night in the restaurants and bars.
Talking to a lot of Spanish people and colleagues today, most people think the government will invoke article 155 of the constitution, which suspends the autonomy of the state. Elections would then need to be called which I guess actually gives separatists a platform to stand on and the other parties to present the case for unity. It would also give the majority, who have not really had a say, the chance to vote in a proper election.
Stories coming out of the farcical nature of Sunday's referendum have shown why no other country has taken it seriously. People were allowed to print off ballot slips from the internet and give them in any location and lots of municipalities had more votes for Yes than actual residents on the polling list. At least a properly organised and legal referendum would prevent such a sham.
Eventually got into Barcelona last night and travelled down to Cambrils. All quiet. Will report anything of interest. Golf course beckons.
My Dad is heading out to Barcelona today, so hopefully it stays quiet for him. He cancelled a planned holiday to Dubai via Turkey as he was worried about the political and terrorism situation so thought Spain would be better!
Ironically so did we. We go to the algarve every year in October but left it late this year and couldn’t get our desired tee times. We thought thought about turkey. A couple of the lads were worried about Terrorism so we opted for Catalunya on the recommendation of our agent. As it happens, apart from our flight being cancelled yesterday at short notice we’ve had no problems. Golf today was fine and we’ll be out on the town in Cambrils tonight. Lots of Catalunyan flags on the roadside as we travelled to the golf course today but no obvious signs of unrest otherwise. Will have a better view after a night in the restaurants and bars.
PS. Golf was great and I won. Just sayin.
Thanks for this, very reassuring to hear.
And well done on winning the golf :-)
Thanks. Nice dinner out in town tonight. Everything calm and normal. Chatting to the restaurant staff, there’s obviously a lot of emotion around but Cambrils is not seeing anything like the extremes that Barcelona has suffered.
Eventually got into Barcelona last night and travelled down to Cambrils. All quiet. Will report anything of interest. Golf course beckons.
My Dad is heading out to Barcelona today, so hopefully it stays quiet for him. He cancelled a planned holiday to Dubai via Turkey as he was worried about the political and terrorism situation so thought Spain would be better!
Ironically so did we. We go to the algarve every year in October but left it late this year and couldn’t get our desired tee times. We thought thought about turkey. A couple of the lads were worried about Terrorism so we opted for Catalunya on the recommendation of our agent. As it happens, apart from our flight being cancelled yesterday at short notice we’ve had no problems. Golf today was fine and we’ll be out on the town in Cambrils tonight. Lots of Catalunyan flags on the roadside as we travelled to the golf course today but no obvious signs of unrest otherwise. Will have a better view after a night in the restaurants and bars.
'The Spanish Civil War' by Anthony Beevor is a good and not too difficult or complicated a read about 20 c Iberian politics and internal wranglings which are still extant to this day .. it all goes back to the 8th century Muslim invasion of course .. if it aint the EU, its Islam to blame ((:>)
I just finished this, was a really interesting read, thanks @Lincsaddick
Talking to a lot of Spanish people and colleagues today, most people think the government will invoke article 155 of the constitution, which suspends the autonomy of the state. Elections would then need to be called which I guess actually gives separatists a platform to stand on and the other parties to present the case for unity. It would also give the majority, who have not really had a say, the chance to vote in a proper election.
Stories coming out of the farcical nature of Sunday's referendum have shown why no other country has taken it seriously. People were allowed to print off ballot slips from the internet and give them in any location and lots of municipalities had more votes for Yes than actual residents on the polling list. At least a properly organised and legal referendum would prevent such a sham.
Is that true @CharltonMadrid. I’ve been looking for background on Article 155 and it pretty vague. It sounds like everyone is in general agreement on how it works to enact direct control, but there’s no provision that new elections be called to reestablish the Regional Govt.
That would effectively be a sneaky win for the separatists. Assuming the main topic of any election would be independence, this gives them an officially sanctioned referendum disguised as an election.
If they win control and get majority of the votes, they then can really play the “will of the people” card.
Is there a timeframe on when elections have to take place of Article 155 is triggered ? Could the gov't suspend the states autonomy and then just wait a couple of years for the dust to settle before holding an auction.
Comments
There are certainly parallels with the political elements of the Spanish state forces being hostile to any form of Catalan nationalism in the same way that most British army officers were hostile to Irish nationalism (even mutinying in support of the Ulster Protestants). But I think there are other forces within Spain who would restrain the most radical Spanish nationalists/fascists within the Guardia Civil or Army.
It was reported this morning that the UDI is coming this week. I think what happens after will depend on whether the roughly 50% of the population in Catalonia who don't agree with independence respond and how the Madrid govt handle it. On the past few weeks, I imagine Madrid will handle it badly.
If independence is declared in the next 10 days I'm unclear how the Spanish government will stop it and what the implication will be for other nationalist movements in Europe.
Wheteher or not the Independence leaders sieze the airport, declaring Independence unilaterally (and they have no support outside Catalunya bar Alex Salmond, Nigel Farage and bizarrely this morning Hristo Stoichkov) would move everything much nearer the Irish uprising. My Reading, and bear in mind this is just my view from on the ground without an overview or contact with anyone important, is that Madrid would have to respond. Almost any sort of effective response would be judged too much here, but logically, Spain would feel the need to stop this fast. So among a list of options, start with arresting the Independence leadership, and work up via Pólice intervention, which worked so well last time, up to tropos on the Street. @se9addick pointed out and it's a general rule anywhere, that almost any of those response would certainly be regarded with fury by the 42% who voted for Independence, and depending on the way they were implemented, it's dificult to see how the last two options could achieve anything without pushing people. The Independistas would logically block the entrances to the Catalan Parliament and any other buildings deemed worthwhile, in a 'peacefull' way. So would the pólice pack up and go home or attempt to push their way in, dragging people aside, and risking another wave of hatred from the rest of the world.
At the moment, the brinkmanship is all with Puigdemont. Short term, he can push ahead here in Catalunya, and any response will be deemed 'supression', 'undemocratic' or 'Franco-ist' by his legions. But there is around half the population here who are sitting back open mouthed and can't believe how far this guy has been allowed to go. If he had 80% (and I'm sure he is hoping for a violent response he can decry in order to creata a wave of support) he would find himself at least with some sort of mandate in Catalunya. But he lacks even that. What he has got is that his supporters are fully mobilised, and that isn't going away. Who we pay taxes to here may become academic as the country begins to shut down.
The approach that Madrid takes, in response to any actions by the Catalan nationalists, will be key. What would happen, I wonder, if (rather than seeking to retake the airports, etc.) the Spanish suthorities were to take a range of measures short of physical intervention on the streets? If they wanted to come down hard against secession, short of deploying police and troops, they could close Catalan airspace and hinder land and sea access, require banks to close and seek to bring the Catalan economy to a standstill (even for a matter of days). But, almost anything that they are likely to do will raise hackles.
For me, the most likely and dangerous parallel with Ireland in 1916 that could be that the authorities would introduce internment without trial (as I've mentioned elsewhere, this kind of measure is counter productive).
I also think there's a lot more at play here and the pushing of independence has been decried at least by some as a distraction from the cuts implemented by the Catalan govt.
As I said, if he just enjoys the bars and doesn't get involved with flag waving and protest, it should all be fine. But it's not a good situation really.
Famous Scottish independence mouthpiece Sean Connery was more than happy to accept his knighthood. You could argue that he might view Her Majesty as queen of Scotland so why not. You might also argue that Scottish Nationalism would have been better served had he not.
Latest ítem here is that Puigdemont will be speaking on TV tonight. CUP and JxSi, two of the most radical Independence parties, are trying to get things ready for a declaration of Independence next monday, but there is a rumour it will happen tonight.
Another bit of news is that one of the injred protesters on sunday who appeared on TV telling everyone that the Guardia Civil broke her fingers one by one, has appeared on Catalan TV and admitted she has no broken fingers. just a sprain in one. As she is a member of the ERC, another radical Catalan Independence party, it suggests these guys knew they had a posible public relations triumph on hand, and seized it- Another of the elderly who was on TV with a bleeding head turns out to have fallen of her own volition at a polling station where the pólice were absent. Obviously, this hardly negates some of the pictures that circulated on sunday, but it should bring a bit of context to them. The liberation brigada are not amateurs, and since the Vietnam war, most politicians and their adherents know there is propaganda to be made with a TV camera.
I'm assuming the independence leaders have consulted our Brexit negotiation team for planning advice.
I imagine loads of really detailed planning has taken place and all the implications thought through? I'm sure the Spanish government will be more than happy to write off any existing debt.
I would imagine it would only take a few days to implement the detailed plans that have been drawn up and to replace any of the functions that are currently carried out by central government.
Hopefully they can get Farage involved as a consultant....
PS. Golf was great and I won. Just sayin.
And well done on winning the golf :-)
Stories coming out of the farcical nature of Sunday's referendum have shown why no other country has taken it seriously. People were allowed to print off ballot slips from the internet and give them in any location and lots of municipalities had more votes for Yes than actual residents on the polling list. At least a properly organised and legal referendum would prevent such a sham.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Events_of_October_the_6th?wprov=sfla1
That would effectively be a sneaky win for the separatists. Assuming the main topic of any election would be independence, this gives them an officially sanctioned referendum disguised as an election.
If they win control and get majority of the votes, they then can really play the “will of the people” card.