Is there a timeframe on when elections have to take place of Article 155 is triggered ? Could the gov't suspend the states autonomy and then just wait a couple of years for the dust to settle before holding an auction.
From their point of view, that would be logical, so precisely what the Catalans would wish to avoid. It might actually allow some questions about how they plan to finance their new country. The BBC mentioned yesterday that despite being one of the most wealthy regions of Spain, the are also one of the most indebted, to the tune of 56 billion euros owed primarily to Spain. I imagine that would become a bit of an unfriendly debt. The Catalan leaders have assured the pensioners, who are always a big voting forcé, that their pensions which are paid by Spain, will be continued to be paid by Spain. They haven't explained why they think Spain would wish to do this.
The Catalan question hit the European Parliament yesterday with predictable results. The bigger nations (Germany, France etc) deplored the violence but pointed out the referéndum was ilegal and Secession under an ilegal vote was madness, calling instead for negotiation. Some of the smaller nations, the far right and cheerfully enough Sinn Fein, preferred to back the Catalan's right to decide their own future. The news has, to be fair, been fairly cosistently reparted here, though the Catalan news cannel TV3, gave the Independence backers a lot more of an airing than the Spanish ones did.
There is a growing movement for dialogue on some sides here. Podemos, PNV (Basque nationalists) and even FC Barcelona have all offered to act as intermediares, though given their political views, they are none of them likely to appeal to Mariano Rajoy. The Catalan PM, Puigdemont, offered a speech last night in reply to the one we had from the King, and essentially in the same tone. The quote all the papers are using this morning is 'Not like that' which was the soundbite summary. The leader of Podemos ws more scathing, offering that a King who was voted in by no-one has little right to lectura anyone on democracy, or words to that effect. We are told there sill be a meeting of the Catalan parliamentary table on monday to announce unilateral democracy. Quite where they go with that I don't know. There is still a huge simmering anger here about the pólice, as well as a tendency to move some of the facts around. The idea that they only wanted to vote and express themselves is one you here a lot here, which patently ignores the huge backing they gave to Puigdemont to use it as a springbord for the new Catalan nation.
I genuinely don't know enough about article 155. It would certainly inflame the protesters. Whether the suspensión of autonomy pending fresh elections would also be paired with suspensión of the politicians deemed to have caused it is an open question. Whatever, there would be others willing to take up the mantle, and there is no doubt an election here would be fought along the lines of Independence. Which would get us back to square one - the Spanish government have repeated over and over that Independence is not an option.
Finally, signs that businessed are starting to pack up and leave. A girl in my office has said her husband has been informed that owing to political unrest, his Factory (German owned) are shutting down and moving away. Again, it would be nice if some of the flag wavers could stop singing and shouting and explain some basic economics, as the frenzy here is both unbalanced and dangerous.
Is there a timeframe on when elections have to take place of Article 155 is triggered ? Could the gov't suspend the states autonomy and then just wait a couple of years for the dust to settle before holding an auction.
From their point of view, that would be logical, so precisely what the Catalans would wish to avoid. It might actually allow some questions about how they plan to finance their new country. The BBC mentioned yesterday that despite being one of the most wealthy regions of Spain, the are also one of the most indebted, to the tune of 56 billion euros owed primarily to Spain. I imagine that would become a bit of an unfriendly debt. The Catalan leaders have assured the pensioners, who are always a big voting forcé, that their pensions which are paid by Spain, will be continued to be paid by Spain. They haven't explained why they think Spain would wish to do this.
The Catalan question hit the European Parliament yesterday with predictable results. The bigger nations (Germany, France etc) deplored the violence but pointed out the referéndum was ilegal and Secession under an ilegal vote was madness, calling instead for negotiation. Some of the smaller nations, the far right and cheerfully enough Sinn Fein, preferred to back the Catalan's right to decide their own future. The news has, to be fair, been fairly cosistently reparted here, though the Catalan news cannel TV3, gave the Independence backers a lot more of an airing than the Spanish ones did.
There is a growing movement for dialogue on some sides here. Podemos, PNV (Basque nationalists) and even FC Barcelona have all offered to act as intermediares, though given their political views, they are none of them likely to appeal to Mariano Rajoy. The Catalan PM, Puigdemont, offered a speech last night in reply to the one we had from the King, and essentially in the same tone. The quote all the papers are using this morning is 'Not like that' which was the soundbite summary. The leader of Podemos ws more scathing, offering that a King who was voted in by no-one has little right to lectura anyone on democracy, or words to that effect. We are told there sill be a meeting of the Catalan parliamentary table on monday to announce unilateral democracy. Quite where they go with that I don't know. There is still a huge simmering anger here about the pólice, as well as a tendency to move some of the facts around. The idea that they only wanted to vote and express themselves is one you here a lot here, which patently ignores the huge backing they gave to Puigdemont to use it as a springbord for the new Catalan nation.
I genuinely don't know enough about article 155. It would certainly inflame the protesters. Whether the suspensión of autonomy pending fresh elections would also be paired with suspensión of the politicians deemed to have caused it is an open question. Whatever, there would be others willing to take up the mantle, and there is no doubt an election here would be fought along the lines of Independence. Which would get us back to square one - the Spanish government have repeated over and over that Independence is not an option.
Finally, signs that businessed are starting to pack up and leave. A girl in my office has said her husband has been informed that owing to political unrest, his Factory (German owned) are shutting down and moving away. Again, it would be nice if some of the flag wavers could stop singing and shouting and explain some basic economics, as the frenzy here is both unbalanced and dangerous.
Trying to shoehorn in independence without any proper debate or planning is naive in the extreme. There is so much that can go wrong and so many unanswered questions....
Is there a timeframe on when elections have to take place of Article 155 is triggered ? Could the gov't suspend the states autonomy and then just wait a couple of years for the dust to settle before holding an auction.
From their point of view, that would be logical, so precisely what the Catalans would wish to avoid. It might actually allow some questions about how they plan to finance their new country. The BBC mentioned yesterday that despite being one of the most wealthy regions of Spain, the are also one of the most indebted, to the tune of 56 billion euros owed primarily to Spain. I imagine that would become a bit of an unfriendly debt. The Catalan leaders have assured the pensioners, who are always a big voting forcé, that their pensions which are paid by Spain, will be continued to be paid by Spain. They haven't explained why they think Spain would wish to do this.
The Catalan question hit the European Parliament yesterday with predictable results. The bigger nations (Germany, France etc) deplored the violence but pointed out the referéndum was ilegal and Secession under an ilegal vote was madness, calling instead for negotiation. Some of the smaller nations, the far right and cheerfully enough Sinn Fein, preferred to back the Catalan's right to decide their own future. The news has, to be fair, been fairly cosistently reparted here, though the Catalan news cannel TV3, gave the Independence backers a lot more of an airing than the Spanish ones did.
There is a growing movement for dialogue on some sides here. Podemos, PNV (Basque nationalists) and even FC Barcelona have all offered to act as intermediares, though given their political views, they are none of them likely to appeal to Mariano Rajoy. The Catalan PM, Puigdemont, offered a speech last night in reply to the one we had from the King, and essentially in the same tone. The quote all the papers are using this morning is 'Not like that' which was the soundbite summary. The leader of Podemos ws more scathing, offering that a King who was voted in by no-one has little right to lectura anyone on democracy, or words to that effect. We are told there sill be a meeting of the Catalan parliamentary table on monday to announce unilateral democracy. Quite where they go with that I don't know. There is still a huge simmering anger here about the pólice, as well as a tendency to move some of the facts around. The idea that they only wanted to vote and express themselves is one you here a lot here, which patently ignores the huge backing they gave to Puigdemont to use it as a springbord for the new Catalan nation.
I genuinely don't know enough about article 155. It would certainly inflame the protesters. Whether the suspensión of autonomy pending fresh elections would also be paired with suspensión of the politicians deemed to have caused it is an open question. Whatever, there would be others willing to take up the mantle, and there is no doubt an election here would be fought along the lines of Independence. Which would get us back to square one - the Spanish government have repeated over and over that Independence is not an option.
Finally, signs that businessed are starting to pack up and leave. A girl in my office has said her husband has been informed that owing to political unrest, his Factory (German owned) are shutting down and moving away. Again, it would be nice if some of the flag wavers could stop singing and shouting and explain some basic economics, as the frenzy here is both unbalanced and dangerous.
Thanks for the update Ken. Barbie would be proud of you:) If you and family get in trouble, my mum has a couple plenty of spare rooms. You can pay me the rent:)
Just an evening update if anyone's following politics rather than football. It was a fairly slow start here - America Airlines have advised their customers to avoid visiting Catalunya until 13/10, which I asume is a provisional date while they check out the mood. However lunchti,e was fun. On the Independence side, the news was all local stuff. Girona town hall have announced their patrón, the daughter of the King and 'Princess of Girona' is no longer welcome their as they disliked the tone of the kings speech the night before, while Blanes and Rapitenca town halls are both trying to get rid of the standin Mayor for not being helpfull enough with the vote. But the afternoon was untold misery for the Independence movement, though they don't essm to have noticed how badly it went, Sabadell Bank have moved their fiscal base out of Catalunya to Alicante, and Caixa bank, Catalunya Occidente and another are all considering the same move. The response from one of the Independenc parties, the CUP demanded sabotage and a boycott of the Banks who do this, ignoring the fact there are thousands of Catalan Jobs still there. The Tribunual constitutional have banned the use of Catalan parliament monday for the expected Independence announcement. Some of the Catalan periodics (La Vanguardia and El Periodico) were talking about unilateral Independence as 'economic suicide' and ' a terrible idea'. The fact is that no one trusts these guys away from the onews who are marching and protesting. However, those guys are still there, and they have been promised Independence within days. The ERC and the CUP are still pushing for Independence. I've read in a couple of places that Puigdemont seems more conciliatory and open to dialogue now, but to be Frank, why would Roajoy offer an olive branch now? If there is no progress, the Catalan movement can cheerfully announce their unilateral Independence on monday, but the following financial and social chaos will be here, not Madrid. Why bother talking to a leader who is hell bent on destroying his new country. The Outlook for everyone here in Catalunya would be very bleak - my wife is now planning to take up a government offer to facilitate moving a business out of Catalunya to protect EU membership and avoid getting mixed up in a battle between the Catalan and Spanish tax authorities, but there is an air from the politicians here that simply waving flags and singing 'the streets are ours', there will be bread on the table and work for all. The beginning of a flight of Catalan businesses should really be telling them how badly they have run aground, but the promises of liberty will probably keep them pushing along. Finally, there will be a pro-Spain march in Barcelona on sunday, which may be quite an event, though i'm not convinced they'll get the numbers the Catalans ahev been getting lately. But they've got the financial institutions onside now.
Almost forgot, and thanks to @IT_Andy for the offer of a spare room, but we may need your skills here. In their rush to get as menay people to vote as posible, the Catalan authorities opened their database of over 5 million voters up to be hacked and used by anyone with a basic idea of IT tech. I'm not sure if I'm on there, but it sounds as if lots of dodgy types all over the planet can now find out. Incredible how badly tis is going - the only thing that has really been a success was the horrible pólice violence, but even that is turning round. Guardia Civil are usually quartered with their families in the town they work, and the protests against them (we've had several here in Calella) have also been targeting women and children. The Calella protests seem to have stopped, but this is going to leave lots of new scars on both sides for years.
Just an evening update if anyone's following politics rather than football. It was a fairly slow start here - America Airlines have advised their customers to avoid visiting Catalunya until 13/10, which I asume is a provisional date while they check out the mood. However lunchti,e was fun. On the Independence side, the news was all local stuff. Girona town hall have announced their patrón, the daughter of the King and 'Princess of Girona' is no longer welcome their as they disliked the tone of the kings speech the night before, while Blanes and Rapitenca town halls are both trying to get rid of the standin Mayor for not being helpfull enough with the vote. But the afternoon was untold misery for the Independence movement, though they don't essm to have noticed how badly it went, Sabadell Bank have moved their fiscal base out of Catalunya to Alicante, and Caixa bank, Catalunya Occidente and another are all considering the same move. The response from one of the Independenc parties, the CUP demanded sabotage and a boycott of the Banks who do this, ignoring the fact there are thousands of Catalan Jobs still there. The Tribunual constitutional have banned the use of Catalan parliament monday for the expected Independence announcement. Some of the Catalan periodics (La Vanguardia and El Periodico) were talking about unilateral Independence as 'economic suicide' and ' a terrible idea'. The fact is that no one trusts these guys away from the onews who are marching and protesting. However, those guys are still there, and they have been promised Independence within days. The ERC and the CUP are still pushing for Independence. I've read in a couple of places that Puigdemont seems more conciliatory and open to dialogue now, but to be Frank, why would Roajoy offer an olive branch now? If there is no progress, the Catalan movement can cheerfully announce their unilateral Independence on monday, but the following financial and social chaos will be here, not Madrid. Why bother talking to a leader who is hell bent on destroying his new country. The Outlook for everyone here in Catalunya would be very bleak - my wife is now planning to take up a government offer to facilitate moving a business out of Catalunya to protect EU membership and avoid getting mixed up in a battle between the Catalan and Spanish tax authorities, but there is an air from the politicians here that simply waving flags and singing 'the streets are ours', there will be bread on the table and work for all. The beginning of a flight of Catalan businesses should really be telling them how badly they have run aground, but the promises of liberty will probably keep them pushing along. Finally, there will be a pro-Spain march in Barcelona on sunday, which may be quite an event, though i'm not convinced they'll get the numbers the Catalans ahev been getting lately. But they've got the financial institutions onside now.
What does moving a business out of Catalunya mean for you and the family, have you got to move house?
No. It means for tax purposes and country, we stay in Spain and the UE when these idiots declare Independence and fall out of both. It would basically mean setting up a business address outside Catalunya. so the taxes will go straight to Madrid (and the proprtion that goes to the Generalitat in Barcelona is removed. Essentially, no one with an ounce of economic savvy expects anything other thana finacial collapse here, with the Generalitat seizing money and the Banks running out of currency to allow withdrawals, which is what happened in Greece a few years back.
I just recieved a bit of fairly nasty news, The CUP are now planning an Independece declatration on monday, This will be accompanied by an indefinate general strike. They are calling for their voters to form civil cordons around public buildings to protect them from the pólice, which is to directly put them in the front line of any sort of pólice response by Spain, I was chatting this morning and said that as the movement of businesses out of Catalunya accelerates and the UE refuse to recognise Catalunya, the only card they have left is to provoke a response and hope that some heavy handed pólice tactics results in fairly bloody confrontations and maybe even a death or two, which they can wave as Franco style brutality in the face of 'peaceful protest'. They also plan to seize the airport and the port facilities, although in a rare burst of reality, they admitted this may have to be a slow takeover. To be honest, this looks more and more to me like decisions taken by a bunch of political halfwits who spend to long locked up in romos together without considering a wider possibility than a Catalan team at the next olympics.
Meanwhile, the escape of tax paying major companies from Catalunya continues with the announcement by Freixenet (Cava) and Dogi (textiles) both founded in and owned by Catalans.
Brutal for ordinary Catalans this. Glad my Aunt moved out years back, only two distant cousins there now (and they won't be there much longer I wouldn't think)
Interesting to see the government (read GC) response to this on Monday. I suspect, rather than what people think will happen (less violence than at the vote) it might be a damn sight worse. Rajoy painted himself into a corner weeks ago. For the good of Spain he should quit and force an election, but he won't. His reading of the initial situation was poor, his handling of the vote was childish and petty and he's done nothing since to suggest he can find a way out of the crisis. Expect there to be deaths next week - with eventually Rajoy bring forced out. Maybe that'll halt the momentum the separatists have for a bit. Of course it could make it worse, with Madrid squabbling and no leadership to tackle the problem
No. It means for tax purposes and country, we stay in Spain and the UE when these idiots declare Independence and fall out of both. It would basically mean setting up a business address outside Catalunya. so the taxes will go straight to Madrid (and the proprtion that goes to the Generalitat in Barcelona is removed. Essentially, no one with an ounce of economic savvy expects anything other thana finacial collapse here, with the Generalitat seizing money and the Banks running out of currency to allow withdrawals, which is what happened in Greece a few years back.
I just recieved a bit of fairly nasty news, The CUP are now planning an Independece declatration on monday, This will be accompanied by an indefinate general strike. They are calling for their voters to form civil cordons around public buildings to protect them from the pólice, which is to directly put them in the front line of any sort of pólice response by Spain, I was chatting this morning and said that as the movement of businesses out of Catalunya accelerates and the UE refuse to recognise Catalunya, the only card they have left is to provoke a response and hope that some heavy handed pólice tactics results in fairly bloody confrontations and maybe even a death or two, which they can wave as Franco style brutality in the face of 'peaceful protest'. They also plan to seize the airport and the port facilities, although in a rare burst of reality, they admitted this may have to be a slow takeover. To be honest, this looks more and more to me like decisions taken by a bunch of political halfwits who spend to long locked up in romos together without considering a wider possibility than a Catalan team at the next olympics.
Meanwhile, the escape of tax paying major companies from Catalunya continues with the announcement by Freixenet (Cava) and Dogi (textiles) both founded in and owned by Catalans.
Just arrived in Malaga city this afternoon. I was expecting to see a lot more Spanish national flags. Not sure there is any more than when I was here in June.
In 10 years time when the Catalan economy has been laid to waste at least the separatists will be able to claim they took back control so it was all worth it! They can have a joint celebration with the UK Brexit morons and rejoice at the wilful wrecking of two of the most vibrant economies and cultures in Europe.
Update. We’ve just enjoyed our third successive day of golf and lovely weather. Very few signs of anything untoward. Big rally going on today not far from our golf club (lumine hills) with a few copters flying overhead and some obvious security around but, by and large, we’ve been unaffected.
Just been watching Spain play Albania in a bar in Malaga city. Pique got serious stick from the home fans whenever he was in possession from the kick off until he came off in the 60th minute. Wouldn't surprise me if he calls an end to his international career now.
Just been watching Spain play Albania in a bar in Malaga city. Pique got serious stick from the home fans whenever he was in possession from the kick off until he came off in the 60th minute. Wouldn't surprise me if he calls an end to his international career now.
Today should be interesting as there are pro-unity marches planned for lots of cities, including in Catalonia. Hopefully they pass without incident and it will be interesting to see what the numbers are like in Barcelona and other Catalan cities.
Artur Mas, the former Catalan president, yesterday said it wasn't the right time for independence. Found this quite bizarre as he always used to be one of the leading lights for the independence movement and many feel he still pulls the strings in the background. I wonder if there's going to be a backing down now, especially with businesses leaving or threatening to leave Catalonia and with the pretty much zero international support for independence, combined with the lack of any real facility to create an independent state. If new regional elections are going to happen, which seems inevitable at some point, politicians will have to start appealing to the middle ground again.
No. It means for tax purposes and country, we stay in Spain and the UE when these idiots declare Independence and fall out of both. It would basically mean setting up a business address outside Catalunya. so the taxes will go straight to Madrid (and the proprtion that goes to the Generalitat in Barcelona is removed. Essentially, no one with an ounce of economic savvy expects anything other thana finacial collapse here, with the Generalitat seizing money and the Banks running out of currency to allow withdrawals, which is what happened in Greece a few years back.
I just recieved a bit of fairly nasty news, The CUP are now planning an Independece declatration on monday, This will be accompanied by an indefinate general strike. They are calling for their voters to form civil cordons around public buildings to protect them from the pólice, which is to directly put them in the front line of any sort of pólice response by Spain, I was chatting this morning and said that as the movement of businesses out of Catalunya accelerates and the UE refuse to recognise Catalunya, the only card they have left is to provoke a response and hope that some heavy handed pólice tactics results in fairly bloody confrontations and maybe even a death or two, which they can wave as Franco style brutality in the face of 'peaceful protest'. They also plan to seize the airport and the port facilities, although in a rare burst of reality, they admitted this may have to be a slow takeover. To be honest, this looks more and more to me like decisions taken by a bunch of political halfwits who spend to long locked up in romos together without considering a wider possibility than a Catalan team at the next olympics.
Meanwhile, the escape of tax paying major companies from Catalunya continues with the announcement by Freixenet (Cava) and Dogi (textiles) both founded in and owned by Catalans.
Just arrived in Malaga city this afternoon. I was expecting to see a lot more Spanish national flags. Not sure there is any more than when I was here in June.
In 10 years time when the Catalan economy has been laid to waste at least the separatists will be able to claim they took back control so it was all worth it! They can have a joint celebration with the UK Brexit morons and rejoice at the wilful wrecking of two of the most vibrant economies and cultures in Europe.
As soon as they achieve independence (if ever) the Chinese and Russian investors will be falling over each other to get a piece of the action. The region produces 16% of Spain's GDP.
Not a big lot happening today. There were various pro unity meetings around Spain, but the big one is supposed to be here in Barcelona tomorrow. The exit of big business from Catalunya continues as Agba (Agua de Catalonia), and Caixa Bank both moved their financial base out. The signs are that some on the Independence side want a bit of dialogue now - the dis interest from the UE and the huge loss of capital as major businesses move out seem to have been a bit of a wake up call here.However, they mainly want to talk about organising a new referéndum which would be legal and binding, in the style of Stotland leaving the UK (or not). Anything less would leave their voters hugely angry. The problema is that Spain hae their own voter issues and the president would be left looking very weak if Catalunya were allowed to leave. Anyway, he has stated that Independence is not an option, and that the Independenc movement need to get back inside the law before they do something beyond hope of reprieve.
From there, we move to the news that shuffled across my desk yesterday. Another general strike (possibly indefinate) is in the offing next week, Puigdemont has announced he will meet parliament at 16.00 on tuesday to give an account of the political situation here. However, the consensus is that he will announce unilateral independence then. The plan is for a cordon of citizens to physically block the government institutions to safeguard the Generalitat. They will also begin an immediate take over of ports and aorports and border duties, so anyone leaving or arriving on tuesday might keep that in mind - it's only a rumour but it's gaining ground. I guess my view is that without international recognition and with financial problems growing quickly, they seem to be hoping that putting their votesr back on the front line to defend a fairly controversial decisión will forcé the Spanish to come in heavily again and give them some casualties to wave. Some of the more wild eyed parties (ERC and CUP) seem to be completely detached from the position they are in now.This is all at strong rumour stage - the Catalan government don't confide in me. But it all comes from sources which have been reliable up to now.
Finally a couple of stories from the dark side here. We have a frind who owns a shop here, The day before the generalelection, she was visited by members of the pro Independence CUP, who said they hoped she would close for the strike, and that if she didn't she would be very sorry. On the other side, another friend who works in the Policia Local (local pólice who deal with loal issues and are completely apolitical) told us the last week they have been overrun by threats and hate mail from the pro Spanish lobby who are furious at the treament their pólice recieved here in Calella and Pineda. Finally, I was watching the Catalan TV3 news this morning. There was a tiny story amid the chaos that the Catalan parliament had recently tried to buy a shipment of automatic weapons for the Mossos D'Esquadra, but the payment had been blocked as being an expensive and unneccesary ítem. Literally blink and you miss that one, but it was an odd story at this time.
Not a big lot happening today. There were various pro unity meetings around Spain, but the big one is supposed to be here in Barcelona tomorrow. The exit of big business from Catalunya continues as Agba (Agua de Catalonia), and Caixa Bank both moved their financial base out. The signs are that some on the Independence side want a bit of dialogue now - the dis interest from the UE and the huge loss of capital as major businesses move out seem to have been a bit of a wake up call here.However, they mainly want to talk about organising a new referéndum which would be legal and binding, in the style of Stotland leaving the UK (or not). Anything less would leave their voters hugely angry. The problema is that Spain hae their own voter issues and the president would be left looking very weak if Catalunya were allowed to leave. Anyway, he has stated that Independence is not an option, and that the Independenc movement need to get back inside the law before they do something beyond hope of reprieve.
From there, we move to the news that shuffled across my desk yesterday. Another general strike (possibly indefinate) is in the offing next week, Puigdemont has announced he will meet parliament at 16.00 on tuesday to give an account of the political situation here. However, the consensus is that he will announce unilateral independence then. The plan is for a cordon of citizens to physically block the government institutions to safeguard the Generalitat. They will also begin an immediate take over of ports and aorports and border duties, so anyone leaving or arriving on tuesday might keep that in mind - it's only a rumour but it's gaining ground. I guess my view is that without international recognition and with financial problems growing quickly, they seem to be hoping that putting their votesr back on the front line to defend a fairly controversial decisión will forcé the Spanish to come in heavily again and give them some casualties to wave. Some of the more wild eyed parties (ERC and CUP) seem to be completely detached from the position they are in now.This is all at strong rumour stage - the Catalan government don't confide in me. But it all comes from sources which have been reliable up to now.
Finally a couple of stories from the dark side here. We have a frind who owns a shop here, The day before the generalelection, she was visited by members of the pro Independence CUP, who said they hoped she would close for the strike, and that if she didn't she would be very sorry. On the other side, another friend who works in the Policia Local (local pólice who deal with loal issues and are completely apolitical) told us the last week they have been overrun by threats and hate mail from the pro Spanish lobby who are furious at the treament their pólice recieved here in Calella and Pineda. Finally, I was watching the Catalan TV3 news this morning. There was a tiny story amid the chaos that the Catalan parliament had recently tried to buy a shipment of automatic weapons for the Mossos D'Esquadra, but the payment had been blocked as being an expensive and unneccesary ítem. Literally blink and you miss that one, but it was an odd story at this time.
My cousin told my mum she'd heard that as well. Not on a Catalan channel, but on social media. Be a true swivel-eyed loon who would think of using them as a force in a coup, but I guess it has to be considered as a possibility
Saw on the news that there have been large queues outside banks in the border towns of the Aragon and Valencia provinces with many Catalans desperately trying to open bank accounts outside of Catalonia in fear of an economic meltdown with all the uncertainty and banks leaving.
With people and bussiness transferring money out of Catalan banks is only going to cause chaos. Can't see the Spanish government proping that up. With no legal currency in place and no endorsement by the EU it can't work and only end in possible bloodshed.
This comes across like Brexit except moving much, much faster. And now we hear it's led by a coalition of centre right populists and anarchists! Banks and other companies moving out of Catalonia but one would imagine that the cities in the region still have hefty debts and bills to pay - so who will pay them? And in what currency? For they will have to leave the Eurozone. The trouble with UDI is that you need a currency and lines of credit. Now who the hell is going to lend to a coalition of capitalists and anti-capitalist anarchists who have pursued an illegal path to get here? Hopefully they will blink and stand down over the weekend for I can see no upside in continuing particularly as "oppression from Franco supporters" is just imaginary!
As for Rajoy, he has obviously played a part in the build up in tension. It appears his government faced a no confidence vote last June over a separate matter... but the PSOE (social democrats) abstained. My question to those out there is whether Podemos and the PSOE will take Rajoy on over this?
Looked at in a simplistic fashion this might blow over or we might see Rajoy trying to invoke article 155 and direct rule which looks like it might lead to troops on the streets!
This really is a high risk situation but perhaps businesses moving out will spell out a clear message to the centre right in Barcelona? I understand the far left groups want to escalate as well as putting civilians in front of public buildings, i.e., in the front line of any state action. Quite disgusting really.
Huge numbers in the streets today in Barcelona - between half a million and a million - to march for unity and protest against the separatists. Massive numbers here in Madrid yesterday and most other cities. Despite a far-right element, most have been ordinary people who want to stand up against the division of society and, in the case of those marching in Catalunya, fear an economic meltdown if independence is called. The independence movement is looking quite marginalised now, but they are still predicted to call for independence next week: it's hard to think what this will achieve now.
I might be inclined to think there were catalans in the crowd in Barcelona too, I it wasn't for the fact that they held their March the day after the Madrid one. How many of those in Barcelona were shipped in from outside or non Catalans living in or near Barcelona. I read coaches were struggling to get into Barcelona, so plenty from elsewhere.
I might be inclined to think there were catalans in the crowd in Barcelona too, I it wasn't for the fact that they held their March the day after the Madrid one. How many of those in Barcelona were shipped in from outside or non Catalans living in or near Barcelona. I read coaches were struggling to get into Barcelona, so plenty from elsewhere.
Are you suggesting that only those people describing themselves as Catalan, living in Catalonia/Catalunya have a right to express their desires?
There are many living there for generations who would call themselves Spanish first (as is evidenced by the presence of Espanyol). And there will be Catalans who will be very wary of giving their support to independence for any number of reasons (not least of which will be a desire to avoid financial ruin).
I might be inclined to think there were catalans in the crowd in Barcelona too, I it wasn't for the fact that they held their March the day after the Madrid one. How many of those in Barcelona were shipped in from outside or non Catalans living in or near Barcelona. I read coaches were struggling to get into Barcelona, so plenty from elsewhere.
Are you suggesting that only those people describing themselves as Catalan, living in Catalonia/Catalunya have a right to express their desires?
There are many living there for generations who would call themselves Spanish first (as is evidenced by the presence of Espanyol). And there will be Catalans who will be very wary of giving their support to independence for any number of reasons (not least of which will be a desire to avoid financial ruin).
There will also be plenty of Catalans living outside Catalunya as well who might have returned.
The apparent lack of planning for independence is quite shocking and I'm hoping the possible implications are sinking in.
There were demands for the Catalan economics minister Jonqueras to resign today, as it would seem that he didn't have a clue what the financial implications of this would be. The French have announced they would not recognise an independent Catalunya that sprang out of this election. There was also a bit of shock when a member of the PP announced that Puigdemont will end up like Companys 83 years ago if he persists in a unilateral declaration of Independence. Companys did the same thing and was shot in 1940 by Franco's troops. The minister in question has since replied that he was referring to Companys being imprisoned in 1934 (hence the date) but it does seem needlessly provocative, like much of what's going on. Really today though is mainly about waiting to see what Puigdemont announces tomorrow. The law his group passed was for Independence 48 hours after the results are officially announced. That means tomorrow afternoon. A spokes person from his party said they may make a symbolic declaration, and there was another suggestion of annoucing this to be enacted on a later date, but it's hard to see how this would be aceptable in Madrid,
And a big shout out to the Independent newspaper, which as of yesterday still had a headline saying '90% of Catalans had voted in favor of independence'. Yesterday, there was a huge demonstration in favor of unión in Madrid - estimates range from 350,000 to 930,000 participants. The only coverage the Independent gave was some group of right wing members of the Falange doing a nazi salute. Does anyone know why they are covering this issue so badly, as those two news ítems were about as distorted as posible - even the most hardline Catalan Independence newspapers didn't think they had got 90% of the Catalan vote, though I saw a few fórums where the writers had written the entire march yesterday as 'fascists from outside Catalunya'.
There were demands for the Catalan economics minister Jonqueras to resign today, as it would seem that he didn't have a clue what the financial implications of this would be. The French have announced they would not recognise an independent Catalunya that sprang out of this election. There was also a bit of shock when a member of the PP announced that Puigdemont will end up like Companys 83 years ago if he persists in a unilateral declaration of Independence. Companys did the same thing and was shot in 1940 by Franco's troops. The minister in question has since replied that he was referring to Companys being imprisoned in 1934 (hence the date) but it does seem needlessly provocative, like much of what's going on. Really today though is mainly about waiting to see what Puigdemont announces tomorrow. The law his group passed was for Independence 48 hours after the results are officially announced. That means tomorrow afternoon. A spokes person from his party said they may make a symbolic declaration, and there was another suggestion of annoucing this to be enacted on a later date, but it's hard to see how this would be aceptable in Madrid,
And a big shout out to the Independent newspaper, which as of yesterday still had a headline saying '90% of Catalans had voted in favor of independence'. Yesterday, there was a huge demonstration in favor of unión in Madrid - estimates range from 350,000 to 930,000 participants. The only coverage the Independent gave was some group of right wing members of the Falange doing a nazi salute. Does anyone know why they are covering this issue so badly, as those two news ítems were about as distorted as posible - even the most hardline Catalan Independence newspapers didn't think they had got 90% of the Catalan vote, though I saw a few fórums where the writers had written the entire march yesterday as 'fascists from outside Catalunya'.
Isn't the owner a Putin stooge? Might explain why they support continued discord within the EU?
There was a bit of a stir last night. The story is that during the wave of sedition arrests at the end of september,the Guardia Civil uncovered in the house of one of the Catalan ministers, a route map for Independence. The document listed the basic way to forment a popular movement, starting in november 2015. The idea was to créate a sort of hysteria among the populace that would propel the country to a successfull referendu. The 40 page document outlined possible Governmental responses, the possibility of violence and how that could be manipulated, and the idea that when we get to the stage that we are in now, there should be a movement of voters onto the streets with the intention of asphixiating the justice department and Spanish pólice, up to a point where Spain found the región ungovernable and accepted negotiation. The outline neatly skips the 'silent majority' who don't really want this turmoil, but does suggest there has been a concerted movment to destabilise Spain. It also said that dialogue could be used to drag things out, but purely as a smokescreen while the protagonists forment further disturbances. Finally, it admitted that there would need to be International recognition of the Ctalan state, which seems to be unforthcoming, though Venezuela and North Korea might be happy to join in the fun.
So this afternoon, Mr Puigdemont will stand up and announce....something. It's generally expected he will announce Independence, though some of the gang have been thrown into a panic at the sight of a lot of major industries moving out of Catalunya, as well as Catalans going 'over the border' to Spain to open bank accounts - the CUP have apparently announced they will freeze bank accounts in order to prevent a mass exodus of money out of the new republic, though how exactly that works is beyond me. There are a lot of rumours flying about here, and while a lot are coming to be reality, it doesn't follow that everything I hear is true so I am trying to post the more verifyable stuff, though even that is an issue as even the newspapers have an editorial line they stick to. Two that have swapped sides in the last week are the catalán La Vanguardia and El Periodico, both of whom have been happily printing about the mass movement towards Independence for years, but seem to have woken up to the consequences when Banc Sabadell moved to Valencia last week. The anti system type like the CUP and ERC have admitted independence may be a bit of a tough ride, but that it should be done anyway. The fact that anyone with a pension will lose it the moment Catalunya disconects from Spain, plus the fact that the new republic will instantly fall out of the EU, and therefore have no oficial money or means to buy and sell to neighbours apparently means nothing to these guys.
I'll post later if posible when we find out what the president plans to do with his country.
I think the problem is they have successfully used the violence against them on polling day as a catalyst to garner sympathy for their democratic right to self-determination, which is being abused as international support for an independent Catalunya, which 99% of the international community simply do not have the necessary understanding to have an informed opinion on.
If independence is declared it will be a decision of monumental stupidity which will throw the region into chaos and wtf will it achieve?
This is all about the ego of the independence leaders who barely seem to have got past the student politics stage. You can never underestimate the stupidity of politicians.
Civil unrest seems nailed on if independence is declared and Puidgemont will exploit this and evoke memories of the Civil War.
Comments
The Catalan question hit the European Parliament yesterday with predictable results. The bigger nations (Germany, France etc) deplored the violence but pointed out the referéndum was ilegal and Secession under an ilegal vote was madness, calling instead for negotiation. Some of the smaller nations, the far right and cheerfully enough Sinn Fein, preferred to back the Catalan's right to decide their own future. The news has, to be fair, been fairly cosistently reparted here, though the Catalan news cannel TV3, gave the Independence backers a lot more of an airing than the Spanish ones did.
There is a growing movement for dialogue on some sides here. Podemos, PNV (Basque nationalists) and even FC Barcelona have all offered to act as intermediares, though given their political views, they are none of them likely to appeal to Mariano Rajoy. The Catalan PM, Puigdemont, offered a speech last night in reply to the one we had from the King, and essentially in the same tone. The quote all the papers are using this morning is 'Not like that' which was the soundbite summary. The leader of Podemos ws more scathing, offering that a King who was voted in by no-one has little right to lectura anyone on democracy, or words to that effect.
We are told there sill be a meeting of the Catalan parliamentary table on monday to announce unilateral democracy. Quite where they go with that I don't know. There is still a huge simmering anger here about the pólice, as well as a tendency to move some of the facts around. The idea that they only wanted to vote and express themselves is one you here a lot here, which patently ignores the huge backing they gave to Puigdemont to use it as a springbord for the new Catalan nation.
I genuinely don't know enough about article 155. It would certainly inflame the protesters. Whether the suspensión of autonomy pending fresh elections would also be paired with suspensión of the politicians deemed to have caused it is an open question. Whatever, there would be others willing to take up the mantle, and there is no doubt an election here would be fought along the lines of Independence. Which would get us back to square one - the Spanish government have repeated over and over that Independence is not an option.
Finally, signs that businessed are starting to pack up and leave. A girl in my office has said her husband has been informed that owing to political unrest, his Factory (German owned) are shutting down and moving away. Again, it would be nice if some of the flag wavers could stop singing and shouting and explain some basic economics, as the frenzy here is both unbalanced and dangerous.
If you and family get in trouble, my mum has a couple plenty of spare rooms. You can pay me the rent:)
But the afternoon was untold misery for the Independence movement, though they don't essm to have noticed how badly it went, Sabadell Bank have moved their fiscal base out of Catalunya to Alicante, and Caixa bank, Catalunya Occidente and another are all considering the same move. The response from one of the Independenc parties, the CUP demanded sabotage and a boycott of the Banks who do this, ignoring the fact there are thousands of Catalan Jobs still there. The Tribunual constitutional have banned the use of Catalan parliament monday for the expected Independence announcement. Some of the Catalan periodics (La Vanguardia and El Periodico) were talking about unilateral Independence as 'economic suicide' and ' a terrible idea'.
The fact is that no one trusts these guys away from the onews who are marching and protesting. However, those guys are still there, and they have been promised Independence within days. The ERC and the CUP are still pushing for Independence. I've read in a couple of places that Puigdemont seems more conciliatory and open to dialogue now, but to be Frank, why would Roajoy offer an olive branch now? If there is no progress, the Catalan movement can cheerfully announce their unilateral Independence on monday, but the following financial and social chaos will be here, not Madrid. Why bother talking to a leader who is hell bent on destroying his new country. The Outlook for everyone here in Catalunya would be very bleak - my wife is now planning to take up a government offer to facilitate moving a business out of Catalunya to protect EU membership and avoid getting mixed up in a battle between the Catalan and Spanish tax authorities, but there is an air from the politicians here that simply waving flags and singing 'the streets are ours', there will be bread on the table and work for all. The beginning of a flight of Catalan businesses should really be telling them how badly they have run aground, but the promises of liberty will probably keep them pushing along.
Finally, there will be a pro-Spain march in Barcelona on sunday, which may be quite an event, though i'm not convinced they'll get the numbers the Catalans ahev been getting lately. But they've got the financial institutions onside now.
I just recieved a bit of fairly nasty news, The CUP are now planning an Independece declatration on monday, This will be accompanied by an indefinate general strike. They are calling for their voters to form civil cordons around public buildings to protect them from the pólice, which is to directly put them in the front line of any sort of pólice response by Spain, I was chatting this morning and said that as the movement of businesses out of Catalunya accelerates and the UE refuse to recognise Catalunya, the only card they have left is to provoke a response and hope that some heavy handed pólice tactics results in fairly bloody confrontations and maybe even a death or two, which they can wave as Franco style brutality in the face of 'peaceful protest'.
They also plan to seize the airport and the port facilities, although in a rare burst of reality, they admitted this may have to be a slow takeover. To be honest, this looks more and more to me like decisions taken by a bunch of political halfwits who spend to long locked up in romos together without considering a wider possibility than a Catalan team at the next olympics.
Meanwhile, the escape of tax paying major companies from Catalunya continues with the announcement by Freixenet (Cava) and Dogi (textiles) both founded in and owned by Catalans.
Interesting to see the government (read GC) response to this on Monday. I suspect, rather than what people think will happen (less violence than at the vote) it might be a damn sight worse. Rajoy painted himself into a corner weeks ago. For the good of Spain he should quit and force an election, but he won't. His reading of the initial situation was poor, his handling of the vote was childish and petty and he's done nothing since to suggest he can find a way out of the crisis. Expect there to be deaths next week - with eventually Rajoy bring forced out. Maybe that'll halt the momentum the separatists have for a bit. Of course it could make it worse, with Madrid squabbling and no leadership to tackle the problem
Worrying
In 10 years time when the Catalan economy has been laid to waste at least the separatists will be able to claim they took back control so it was all worth it! They can have a joint celebration with the UK Brexit morons and rejoice at the wilful wrecking of two of the most vibrant economies and cultures in Europe.
Artur Mas, the former Catalan president, yesterday said it wasn't the right time for independence. Found this quite bizarre as he always used to be one of the leading lights for the independence movement and many feel he still pulls the strings in the background. I wonder if there's going to be a backing down now, especially with businesses leaving or threatening to leave Catalonia and with the pretty much zero international support for independence, combined with the lack of any real facility to create an independent state. If new regional elections are going to happen, which seems inevitable at some point, politicians will have to start appealing to the middle ground again.
The problema is that Spain hae their own voter issues and the president would be left looking very weak if Catalunya were allowed to leave. Anyway, he has stated that Independence is not an option, and that the Independenc movement need to get back inside the law before they do something beyond hope of reprieve.
From there, we move to the news that shuffled across my desk yesterday. Another general strike (possibly indefinate) is in the offing next week, Puigdemont has announced he will meet parliament at 16.00 on tuesday to give an account of the political situation here. However, the consensus is that he will announce unilateral independence then. The plan is for a cordon of citizens to physically block the government institutions to safeguard the Generalitat. They will also begin an immediate take over of ports and aorports and border duties, so anyone leaving or arriving on tuesday might keep that in mind - it's only a rumour but it's gaining ground.
I guess my view is that without international recognition and with financial problems growing quickly, they seem to be hoping that putting their votesr back on the front line to defend a fairly controversial decisión will forcé the Spanish to come in heavily again and give them some casualties to wave. Some of the more wild eyed parties (ERC and CUP) seem to be completely detached from the position they are in now.This is all at strong rumour stage - the Catalan government don't confide in me. But it all comes from sources which have been reliable up to now.
Finally a couple of stories from the dark side here. We have a frind who owns a shop here, The day before the generalelection, she was visited by members of the pro Independence CUP, who said they hoped she would close for the strike, and that if she didn't she would be very sorry. On the other side, another friend who works in the Policia Local (local pólice who deal with loal issues and are completely apolitical) told us the last week they have been overrun by threats and hate mail from the pro Spanish lobby who are furious at the treament their pólice recieved here in Calella and Pineda.
Finally, I was watching the Catalan TV3 news this morning. There was a tiny story amid the chaos that the Catalan parliament had recently tried to buy a shipment of automatic weapons for the Mossos D'Esquadra, but the payment had been blocked as being an expensive and unneccesary ítem. Literally blink and you miss that one, but it was an odd story at this time.
With no legal currency in place and no endorsement by the EU it can't work and only end in possible bloodshed.
Banks and other companies moving out of Catalonia but one would imagine that the cities in the region still have hefty debts and bills to pay - so who will pay them? And in what currency? For they will have to leave the Eurozone.
The trouble with UDI is that you need a currency and lines of credit. Now who the hell is going to lend to a coalition of capitalists and anti-capitalist anarchists who have pursued an illegal path to get here?
Hopefully they will blink and stand down over the weekend for I can see no upside in continuing particularly as "oppression from Franco supporters" is just imaginary!
As for Rajoy, he has obviously played a part in the build up in tension. It appears his government faced a no confidence vote last June over a separate matter... but the PSOE (social democrats) abstained. My question to those out there is whether Podemos and the PSOE will take Rajoy on over this?
Looked at in a simplistic fashion this might blow over or we might see Rajoy trying to invoke article 155 and direct rule which looks like it might lead to troops on the streets!
This really is a high risk situation but perhaps businesses moving out will spell out a clear message to the centre right in Barcelona? I understand the far left groups want to escalate as well as putting civilians in front of public buildings, i.e., in the front line of any state action. Quite disgusting really.
There are many living there for generations who would call themselves Spanish first (as is evidenced by the presence of Espanyol). And there will be Catalans who will be very wary of giving their support to independence for any number of reasons (not least of which will be a desire to avoid financial ruin).
The apparent lack of planning for independence is quite shocking and I'm hoping the possible implications are sinking in.
There was also a bit of shock when a member of the PP announced that Puigdemont will end up like Companys 83 years ago if he persists in a unilateral declaration of Independence. Companys did the same thing and was shot in 1940 by Franco's troops. The minister in question has since replied that he was referring to Companys being imprisoned in 1934 (hence the date) but it does seem needlessly provocative, like much of what's going on.
Really today though is mainly about waiting to see what Puigdemont announces tomorrow. The law his group passed was for Independence 48 hours after the results are officially announced. That means tomorrow afternoon. A spokes person from his party said they may make a symbolic declaration, and there was another suggestion of annoucing this to be enacted on a later date, but it's hard to see how this would be aceptable in Madrid,
And a big shout out to the Independent newspaper, which as of yesterday still had a headline saying '90% of Catalans had voted in favor of independence'. Yesterday, there was a huge demonstration in favor of unión in Madrid - estimates range from 350,000 to 930,000 participants. The only coverage the Independent gave was some group of right wing members of the Falange doing a nazi salute. Does anyone know why they are covering this issue so badly, as those two news ítems were about as distorted as posible - even the most hardline Catalan Independence newspapers didn't think they had got 90% of the Catalan vote, though I saw a few fórums where the writers had written the entire march yesterday as 'fascists from outside Catalunya'.
The outline neatly skips the 'silent majority' who don't really want this turmoil, but does suggest there has been a concerted movment to destabilise Spain. It also said that dialogue could be used to drag things out, but purely as a smokescreen while the protagonists forment further disturbances. Finally, it admitted that there would need to be International recognition of the Ctalan state, which seems to be unforthcoming, though Venezuela and North Korea might be happy to join in the fun.
So this afternoon, Mr Puigdemont will stand up and announce....something. It's generally expected he will announce Independence, though some of the gang have been thrown into a panic at the sight of a lot of major industries moving out of Catalunya, as well as Catalans going 'over the border' to Spain to open bank accounts - the CUP have apparently announced they will freeze bank accounts in order to prevent a mass exodus of money out of the new republic, though how exactly that works is beyond me. There are a lot of rumours flying about here, and while a lot are coming to be reality, it doesn't follow that everything I hear is true so I am trying to post the more verifyable stuff, though even that is an issue as even the newspapers have an editorial line they stick to. Two that have swapped sides in the last week are the catalán La Vanguardia and El Periodico, both of whom have been happily printing about the mass movement towards Independence for years, but seem to have woken up to the consequences when Banc Sabadell moved to Valencia last week. The anti system type like the CUP and ERC have admitted independence may be a bit of a tough ride, but that it should be done anyway. The fact that anyone with a pension will lose it the moment Catalunya disconects from Spain, plus the fact that the new republic will instantly fall out of the EU, and therefore have no oficial money or means to buy and sell to neighbours apparently means nothing to these guys.
I'll post later if posible when we find out what the president plans to do with his country.
This is all about the ego of the independence leaders who barely seem to have got past the student politics stage. You can never underestimate the stupidity of politicians.
Civil unrest seems nailed on if independence is declared and Puidgemont will exploit this and evoke memories of the Civil War.