There’s a great opportunity for someone at The Mudlark on Nov 27th to put this to Alan.....get his view on it and if need be put him straight re Mckenzie’s sly and deceitful trickery.
West Brom don’t even manage 26,000 now. Them, Watford, Burnley, Brighton etc seem to be doing ok with their lower attendances. There’s no reason why if we eventually got back up we couldn’t get to mid-table.
I wrote an article about this a few years ago. One of the most common misconceptions in football and largely down to one man.
After every single game, 'Kelvin from Sevenoaks' would be put through on air on Talksport and repeat the same dirge about Curbishley taking 'us' as far as he can etc etc. This would expand to virtually every Talksport presenter on every show whenever Charlton got mentioned as 'Charlton fans, has Curbishley taken you as far as you can go?'
Kelvin from Sevenoaks was of course Kelvin McKenzie, a Charlton fan for about 20 minutes and who just so happened to be Talksport's Station Manager at the time.
Of course there were a few that felt the same and it was time for a change, but this still remains the biggest exaggeration in football and it drives me mad
Quite possibly in the top 100 vile human beings to have ever walked this earth, and likely in the top 50 worst people to have ever been associated with our club.
Was a pretend Millwall fan then a pretend Charlton fan when we were good. Hoped he'd jogged on but unfortunately caught sight of him before a game a few seasons ago snivelling round the west stand concourse like a saddle sniffer in Halfords after closing time.
I still have these unwanted conversations now. "You should have been careful what you wished for". I tell them that the majority wanted him to stay and understood why we had become a little stale. I know that he did get stick from some fans behind the dugout, which pissed him off.
Whether many fans or just Kuntvin McKuntsie wanted Curbs out is and was irrelevant and moot. AC wasn’t at all sure he wanted to stay - it’s right there in his own book - and he and RM agreed what they agreed. Anybody using 606 let alone the fuckwittery on talksport as a reasoned measure of anything have only themselves to blame if it upsets them
Inspector Sands calls it about right after some crap results - April 11 2005
A bit further down that link, he gives a report on the Man City lunchtime 2-2. I'd forgotten how bad we were that day (they slaughtered us) and in particular, Mark Fish (normally such a fine player). It was like seeing a pub player playing centre-back and was without doubt one of the worst I'd ever seen from a Charlton player. Very sad for such a good player.
I've always guessed he must have been fed up with midfielders messing him about, Parker, Murphy, Smertin leaving, Romedahl underperforming, as did Jensen after Parker left, and Ambrose. Yet Kish got stick from a lot of fans!
There was no next level to reach us being in the prem was a as good as it was ever going to get
This is actually true, but most people ever accept such realities as that. If we got back to 8th and then dropped to 14th, I am pretty sure everyone would call for the manager's head or claim we "lack ambition."
Charlton finishing 8th would be equal in impressiveness as Tottenham winning the Champions League. No matter what we do, we cannot compete over time with the big 6, for the following reasons.
1. We don't have a large enough stadium. Even in our peak year we were 14th in EPL attendance, at 26,000 per match. That will not get the job done, as we will be many, many millions per year of lower revenues and thus, less to spend on bringing in (or keeping) talent.
2. We would not have the endorsements. ManU signed a 700 million endorsement deal? Yeah, our whole turnover would not be more than 120 million in the EPL, even with TV money. Again, we would not have the wages to compete.
3. FFP. Perhaps big clubs get away flouting the rules, but we would not.
I would be very impressed if we got back to the EPL and were mid-table again. It would be very hard to do.
You not heard of Project 40k? The club had a steering committee looking into increasing capacity. Maybe the board had ambition but the playing staff and management didn't? I think Henry was involved in that, be interesting to hear now some of the thoughts at the time.
I was absolutely gutted when Curbs went. Walking down the hill from the village to the East Stand, I heard a fan on his mobile say to another, 'You heard Curbishley's going?' to which the second fella replied, 'Good!'
There was a minority of Charlton fans who wanted Curbs out, but it was a pretty small one - 5%, 10%?
We were never going to be ever present members of the PL - at the time I thought the plans for the 40k stadium were excessive - but the disaster was the double relegation. We could easily have stabilised in the Championship and gone back up after a couple of seasons.
There was a minority of Charlton fans who wanted Curbs out, but it was a pretty small one - 5%, 10%?
We were never going to be ever present members of the PL - at the time I thought the plans for the 40k stadium were excessive - but the disaster was the double relegation. We could easily have stabilised in the Championship and gone back up after a couple of seasons.
The disater was getting relegated the year before parachute payments more than doubled. It was widely known at the time thatthis was in the pipeline. Curbs was happy to see out the last year of his contract and we should have let him in order to secure financial stability.
To me the first 4 paragraphs of that article sum up pretty accurately what happened, from reading things from back then. Honestly, there seems to be a new kind of myth emerging... that no one wanted Curbs to leave.
Agreed and that he wanted to leave as opposed to stay for the final year of his contract which is not true. I spoke to curbs at the kit sponsors evening the following evening and he was still surprised and bemused that he would not be in charge the next season.
What seems to be happening here is revisionism, I remember many people in the upper west stand talking of Curbishley only wanting mid table mediocrity and he should go, and lots of abuse when he made subs that were defensive and meant holding on for a draw instead of going for a win. No there was a general atmosphere of he must go at that time, and if you expressed the contrary opinion they just said you had no ambition.
In reality Charlton had probably been taken as far as we could by anyone. We punched above our weight and had some great times. However, I for one got frustrated with our inability to win a game after march year after year and with Curbs. Remember losing a Saturday night game at Liverpool without a shot on goal, and curbs said something like "we knew the best we could hope for was a point" or something similar afterwards. I think we'd done the double over them the previous season ffs! The home game against spurs, losing 3-2 after being two up and the 3-0 at Wigan also stick in the mind as soul destroying moments. Curbs lost his mojo after the team he built was destroyed when Parker forced a move. All the hard work down the drain. I was glad when I heard his contract wasn't being renewed, a I honestly thought we could get a bigger more "glamorous" name to get us into Europe. Nothing wrong with a bit of ambition. It didn't pan out as I was hoping though haha! what followed is history, but as an earlier poster said, if you want to see fan anger, look at the way pardew was treated after the Barnsley and Sheff Utd games. We definitely all wanted him sacked!
Inspector Sands calls it about right after some crap results - April 11 2005
two great quotes from the Inspector ,
"Blind to all reason, deaf to all but their own arguments, they won't be happy until we're playing lovely, flowing entertaining football... on a Tuesday night at Gresty Road"
"Or maybe one day, you'll get the team you deserve. And you really wouldn't want that."
In reality Charlton had probably been taken as far as we could by anyone. We punched above our weight and had some great times. However, I for one got frustrated with our inability to win a game after march year after year and with Curbs. Remember losing a Saturday night game at Liverpool without a shot on goal, and curbs said something like "we knew the best we could hope for was a point" or something similar afterwards. I think we'd done the double over them the previous season ffs! The home game against spurs, losing 3-2 after being two up and the 3-0 at Wigan also stick in the mind as soul destroying moments. Curbs lost his mojo after the team he built was destroyed when Parker forced a move. All the hard work down the drain. I was glad when I heard his contract wasn't being renewed, a I honestly thought we could get a bigger more "glamorous" name to get us into Europe. Nothing wrong with a bit of ambition. It didn't pan out as I was hoping though haha! what followed is history, but as an earlier poster said, if you want to see fan anger, look at the way pardew was treated after the Barnsley and Sheff Utd games. We definitely all wanted him sacked!
Nobody at Charlton wanted the Parker sale but I bet AC assumed he would get more of the transfer money to replace him than he did. In my opinion that was the turning point and probably made him question his future at Charlton. Understandably other things such as the stadium needed to be paid for so you could understand it but the when Dowie got a big kitty to spend, you have to wonder. Chicken and egg situation - maybe he wouldn't commit to a long term deal and therefore wasn't given the bulk of the money? or maybe the board did really think they could do better? Who knows but I think in football things do run their natural course - Wenger will probably leave and Arsenal will slump like Man U but he can't stay much longer surely as its all become so predictable. The plus side - if there is one - of where we are now is you would think we are due another upturn and people will fully appreciate it again. It happened to a certain extent under Powell but then the rug was pulled away. We've weathered another period of crap but it definitely seems we have a decent manager in place now and if we can get some decent long term owners in as well, we should be able to enjoy a period of relative success.
In reality Charlton had probably been taken as far as we could by anyone. We punched above our weight and had some great times. However, I for one got frustrated with our inability to win a game after march year after year and with Curbs. Remember losing a Saturday night game at Liverpool without a shot on goal, and curbs said something like "we knew the best we could hope for was a point" or something similar afterwards. I think we'd done the double over them the previous season ffs! The home game against spurs, losing 3-2 after being two up and the 3-0 at Wigan also stick in the mind as soul destroying moments. Curbs lost his mojo after the team he built was destroyed when Parker forced a move. All the hard work down the drain. I was glad when I heard his contract wasn't being renewed, a I honestly thought we could get a bigger more "glamorous" name to get us into Europe. Nothing wrong with a bit of ambition. It didn't pan out as I was hoping though haha! what followed is history, but as an earlier poster said, if you want to see fan anger, look at the way pardew was treated after the Barnsley and Sheff Utd games. We definitely all wanted him sacked!
He turned down the contract offer.
So the wheels were in motion from that point on then?
Murray must have had plenty time to look for a replacement. Probably already had a long list of quality candidates that he'd accumulated over the years rather than jump on the first opportunity to put one over on a rival
The fact is there was never a 'Curbs Out' movement but a sizeable minority who were tired of Curbs continually leaving himself open to every job offer the press linked him with. As Goonerhater says, he was on the lookout for a bigger job and was always very clear about the size of club he saw as us (small). He wouldn't sign a contract extension in his last year and Murray bit the bullet. I certainly didn't blame him for that. Curbs had, had a long run. The sizeable minority weren't distraught and hoped for better things. The fact that we didn't get them under numerous managers and that the money eventually died up is history. As Stig says, the 'be careful what you wish for' line is unconnected to fact or reality - it's the 'with hindsight' comment - pointless.
I can’t say that I know the truth but I’m sure that Richard Murray said at a fan meeting that Curbishley made it clear that he wanted to go but wanted to be paid the the last year of his contract so agreed that he would stay if he had to.
If that situation really did exist then it might have been difficult to motivate Curbishley and/or the players (both those already with us and those we were looking to sign) to do enough to avoid relegation.
It’s also not a coincidence that both Dowie and JFH made a point of saying in press conferences that they were going to make us play more attractive football.
The reality is that on the budget we had we couldn’t play nice attractive football and secure enough points to stay up every season. Sometimes teams just have to win (or draw) at all costs.
I can’t say that I know the truth but I’m sure that Richard Murray said at a fan meeting that Curbishley made it clear that he wanted to go but wanted to be paid the the last year of his contract so agreed that he would stay if he had to.
If that situation really did exist then it might have been difficult to motivate Curbishley and/or the players (both those already with us and those we were looking to sign) to do enough to avoid relegation.
It’s also not a coincidence that both Dowie and JFH made a point of saying in press conferences that they were going to make us play more attractive football.
The reality is that on the budget we had we couldn’t play nice attractive football and secure enough points to stay up every season. Sometimes teams just have to win (or draw) at all costs.
I believe Curbs' version of events which he describes in his book. As one of the most honest men in football, his word is good enough for me.
There's a difference between being ambitious and being greedy. I think most Charlton fans recognised that the future under Curbs was never going to be exciting football and breaking into the top 6 and Europe on a regular basis. But at the same time we were in a position to consilidate our position and, given the right resources to grow.
Maybe a larger number of fans than they are willing to admit would have taken a more ambitious and risky approach to the league at the expense of dispensing of a trusted and lauded manager whose style had, in most people's eyes, had reached its peak (And top 10 in the Prem for a comparatively small club is a hell of a peak). In retrospect, the only clubs who have managed to finish consistently higher than where Charlton was finishing were either already huge clubs with the resources and fan base to sustain their position, or were pushed there by foreign billionaires.
So the fans might have wished for more glory or more exciting football, even if this meant axeing the man who took them to such a position. The phrase 'be careful what you wish for' cannot really apply here. Fans would have been perfectly satisfied for at least another couple of years of Curbs whilst the club put together a prospectus for what the fans wanted. Instead we had a litany of managers who, at the time, had no right walking into any top flight role, and a cavalcade of pisspoor signings that would make some of RD's personal picks look like tidy transfer business by comparison. The fans may have had ambitions but those running the club seemed to have a collective meltdown in common sense once Curbs left.
Comments
Was a pretend Millwall fan then a pretend Charlton fan when we were good. Hoped he'd jogged on but unfortunately caught sight of him before a game a few seasons ago snivelling round the west stand concourse like a saddle sniffer in Halfords after closing time.
Cockroach of a man.
"You should have been careful what you wished for".
I tell them that the majority wanted him to stay and understood why we had become a little stale.
I know that he did get stick from some fans behind the dugout, which pissed him off.
Inspector Sands calls it about right after some crap results - April 11 2005
http://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/9782/konch-nobody-likes-curbishley-hes-an-idiot/p1
We were never going to be ever present members of the PL - at the time I thought the plans for the 40k stadium were excessive - but the disaster was the double relegation. We could easily have stabilised in the Championship and gone back up after a couple of seasons.
AFKABartram
August 2007
wonder how many years we are going to keep having this Curbs debate....
"Blind to all reason, deaf to all but their own arguments, they won't be happy until we're playing lovely, flowing entertaining football... on a Tuesday night at Gresty Road"
"Or maybe one day, you'll get the team you deserve. And you really wouldn't want that."
I hate our fans
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5a0d5d3861260/the-myth-of-charlton-fans-wanting-alan-curbishley-out-media-watch-161117
And that it hasn't included Daisy's most recent interview. Surely nothing to be ashamed of?
Murray must have had plenty time to look for a replacement. Probably already had a long list of quality candidates that he'd accumulated over the years rather than jump on the first opportunity to put one over on a rival
If that situation really did exist then it might have been difficult to motivate Curbishley and/or the players (both those already with us and those we were looking to sign) to do enough to avoid relegation.
It’s also not a coincidence that both Dowie and JFH made a point of saying in press conferences that they were going to make us play more attractive football.
The reality is that on the budget we had we couldn’t play nice attractive football and secure enough points to stay up every season. Sometimes teams just have to win (or draw) at all costs.
Maybe a larger number of fans than they are willing to admit would have taken a more ambitious and risky approach to the league at the expense of dispensing of a trusted and lauded manager whose style had, in most people's eyes, had reached its peak (And top 10 in the Prem for a comparatively small club is a hell of a peak). In retrospect, the only clubs who have managed to finish consistently higher than where Charlton was finishing were either already huge clubs with the resources and fan base to sustain their position, or were pushed there by foreign billionaires.
So the fans might have wished for more glory or more exciting football, even if this meant axeing the man who took them to such a position. The phrase 'be careful what you wish for' cannot really apply here. Fans would have been perfectly satisfied for at least another couple of years of Curbs whilst the club put together a prospectus for what the fans wanted. Instead we had a litany of managers who, at the time, had no right walking into any top flight role, and a cavalcade of pisspoor signings that would make some of RD's personal picks look like tidy transfer business by comparison. The fans may have had ambitions but those running the club seemed to have a collective meltdown in common sense once Curbs left.