After all this time the myth lives on, and it’s surprising the number of Charlton fans who buy into the forced out by the anti Curbs section. I was someone who wasn’t sorry to see him go, but he was never booed or shouted down to my knowledge. The dissatisfaction was largely quiet and very low key. Certainly not at a level, to force his hand. However, his leaving will never diminish what he achieved in his time as our Manager. A legend …
I recall at the time that Curbs was himself becoming less committed and ultimately he clearly left because of this. I don't think we can even blame Murray at the time, I'm not referring to his post Curbs mismanagement, as he had a manager who clearly had lost heart in the project. So giving him another year could have been problematic.
Of course a minority of fans may have wanted him gone and some of them may have been influenced in some way by Curbs' own comments. But it was a minority and there has been a rewriting of history going on that even some of our younger fans may believe.
One of my most memorable moments in football was at Curbs' final home game against Blackburn. The heartfelt applause didn't even get reported on Match of the Day, but that doesn't matter, it was a moment of respect between the fans and Curbs. He was clapped out of the Valley by fans who loved and supported him. Maybe at the time he didn't realise how valuable this is but fan involvement in him leaving was 0% at most!
From memory both Curbs and Murray had a philosophy of resigning players with only a year left of their current deal or moving them on while we could still get a fee, with only a year left Curbs made it known he wouldn’t resign but wanted to see out his final year. This was overruled by Murray and he left that season.
I seem to remember many saying Curbs has done all he can with Charlton. This was back in the 'Your Views' days though.
Well maybe he had. Season after season of not competing February onwards. Unable to inspire his teams to perform once safety had been assured. No progress in cups, league or FA except for the 1/4 in his last season when he failed to inspire his team to beat a very average Boro at home. If he had, Charlton could well have been in the UEFA Cup the next season.
Wasn't this the Boro team who played their way to a UEFA Cup final? Think they might have been a bit better than just average in the cups that year.
I seem to remember many saying Curbs has done all he can with Charlton. This was back in the 'Your Views' days though.
Well maybe he had. Season after season of not competing February onwards. Unable to inspire his teams to perform once safety had been assured. No progress in cups, league or FA except for the 1/4 in his last season when he failed to inspire his team to beat a very average Boro at home. If he had, Charlton could well have been in the UEFA Cup the next season.
Wasn't this the Boro team who played their way to a UEFA Cup final? Think they might have been a bit better than just average in the cups that year.
I was there! Were you? They were nothing on the night but we were less. The crowd were brilliant, booing every time Boro got the ball and this really put them off and really cheering when Charlton got the ball, unfortunately this put them off too. Boro offered nothing but we failed to capitalise.
I think that that game was the first time I'd seen Charlton play on a Thursday. Could be wrong.....
From memory both Curbs and Murray had a philosophy of resigning players with only a year left of their current deal or moving them on while we could still get a fee, with only a year left Curbs made it known he wouldn’t resign but wanted to see out his final year. This was overruled by Murray and he left that season.
That’s pretty well known and I don’t think many dispute that version of events. However, I think the suggestion is that the number of fans who did want Curbs gone and did think we could do better, made Murray’s decision easier.
Matterface and Beckford certainly proved what a couple of lazy fuckwits they are by trotting out that old bullshit yet again on Friday night. Idle berks couldn't be bothered to learn any Charlton players names other than Jonathon Leko ("leeko" apparently) Beckford to his credit has gone some way to apologising. The indignation on this site is mostly fair enough but this place had more than its fair share of "he's taken us as far as he can", "his head's been turned by the England nonsense", "he's too negative..." Part of which was borne out by Curb's own version of events in his autobiography. There's more than a feint whiff of 15 year old hypocrisy on this site
Haven't read the full thread so this might have been covered already.......
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
Curbs was happy to see out the end of his contract Murray didn't want him to , no hindsight here , that was a ridiculous decision when the tv money was gonna bump up the season after ... Curbs also offered to help find a successor but Minty didn't want his help.
I knew we'd fall apart and struggle once he left and once down that we wouldn't return for eons The bloke worked miracles and not many could see it at the time
Haven't read the full thread so this might have been covered already.......
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
All makes sense and is very understandable.
The issue wasn't letting Curbs leave. It was replacing him with Iain Dowie and then Alan Pardew. Two managers we still haven't recovered from fifteen years later.
Haven't read the full thread so this might have been covered already.......
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
All makes sense and is very understandable.
The issue wasn't letting Curbs leave. It was replacing him with Iain Dowie and then Alan Pardew. Two managers we still haven't recovered from fifteen years later.
Certainly appointing Dowie was just madness......or Murray just wanting to look smug. Worst decision ever .....even worse than Fryre & Luzon.
I remember telling my son to cherish those years as they might be the best it'll ever get.
So sad that I was right.
Whilst the good days seem a lifetime ago we are only 2 great seasons (or even 1.5 depending on how this one pans out) from a return to the top flight where anything can happen.
With our current team, the spirit and league position we could be nearer to a return to that than we have been since the previous owners, particularly if we get new owners who have funds and ambition football- wise.
One good season and one outrageous season would be needed really. Getting out of L1 with our budget should happen in relatively short order if TS sticks around but we are miles off Championship standard and less and less teams are getting promoted to the PL without already having parachute payments or a ridiculously rich benefactor. Brentford last season being one of a tiny minority
A millwall mate started banging on about that yesterday - i told him that curbishley outgrew us, not the other way round, the myth grew out of a couple of johnny come lately idiots on a radio phone show and if he needed any further evidence curbs got a standing ovation on his last game and has a stand named after him - hardly what happens when somebody is hounded out - he accepted what i was saying and won't be trotting that shit out any more.
Haven't read the full thread so this might have been covered already.......
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
All makes sense and is very understandable.
The issue wasn't letting Curbs leave. It was replacing him with Iain Dowie and then Alan Pardew. Two managers we still haven't recovered from fifteen years later.
Certainly appointing Dowie was just madness......or Murray just wanting to look smug. Worst decision ever .....even worse than Fryre & Luzon.
This was compounded by the huge player budget that was blown after Curbs had gone. Years of great financial prudence wiped away.
I wish people would drop the selective memory. Many on forums such as this and others of the time where going on about zcurbishly not able to take the team further and how bored with his style of football. They wanted him gone. Even during games you could hear it. The fans had an influence on Curbs and in particular Murray's decision to let him go. He thought it would please the fan base.
Haven't read the full thread so this might have been covered already.......
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
All makes sense and is very understandable.
The issue wasn't letting Curbs leave. It was replacing him with Iain Dowie and then Alan Pardew. Two managers we still haven't recovered from fifteen years later.
Certainly appointing Dowie was just madness......or Murray just wanting to look smug. Worst decision ever .....even worse than Fryre & Luzon.
I feel ill writing this, but for once I agree with @golfaddick 🤮🤮
I wish people would drop the selective memory. Many on forums such as this and others of the time where going on about zcurbishly not able to take the team further and how bored with his style of football. They wanted him gone. Even during games you could hear it. The fans had an influence on Curbs and in particular Murray's decision to let him go. He thought it would please the fan base.
Well that's not the version told by either Curbishley or Murray.
So either they are lying and you are right, or you just got the wrong end of the stick and read in your own narrative.
There was an annoying section of the fanbase who wanted the change, probably because we were the sort of club that had very little drama and for some it was a bit too boring.
It’s their voices that now mean that one of the most prominent and commonly spoken topics about us in the mainstream is this suggestion that we all wanted him out. Hope they’re proud.
Some of those same people still bleat on social media having a go at every little thing. They just love drama.
I wish people would drop the selective memory. Many on forums such as this and others of the time where going on about zcurbishly not able to take the team further and how bored with his style of football. They wanted him gone. Even during games you could hear it. The fans had an influence on Curbs and in particular Murray's decision to let him go. He thought it would please the fan base.
The selective works both ways, the pro Curbs side forget the negatives. The annual down tools for last couple months of season. The failure to make efforts in cup competitions. An the point where Curbs started to give an air of being bigger than the club itself. Yes, we stayed in the Prem, but it was going stale.
it was getting predictable but everyone knew that without throwing money we didn't have, that was just how it was - didn't help that RM was squirrelling away a war chest for dowie or similar to end up spunking and i reckon curbs knew that was happening and was getting a bit miffed hence his comments about needing an agent himself which really started after he didn't see too much of the parker money - whats done is done but nobody other than the johnny come lately prem boys really felt that we had outgrown Curbishley
This miss information was ‘largely’ started and spread by Alan’s brother Bill (manager of The Who), following a meeting they had together at Bill’s home in Kensington a short while after Alan had left us. He made comments in the media inferring that the fan base wanted his brother gone and that they showed no loyalty or respect for everything he had done for the club. Which we all know is very very far from the truth. I’d say there were only 5% or so who might have openly given that impression and of them, only a small percentage went as far as saying they actually wanted him gone……the rest, far more respectfully, thought ‘maybe’ it was time for a change, which is a subtle but important difference. I distinctly remember on NetAddicks there were just two or three posters who aired the view they wanted him gone, spearheaded by the insufferable DFT (Dave from Thamesmead), who was constantly rattling on about it for months. Well, he and just a few other twats got their wish……didn’t they!
Haven't read the full thread so this might have been covered already.......
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
I once rang up 606 with the book at the ready to quote from it. One of the pundits had spurted the Curbs lie. They didn't put me through. Next time it happens I will tell them I'm an unhappy Arsenal fan just to get through.
I wish people would drop the selective memory. Many 1.on forums such as this and others of the time where going on about zcurbishly not able to take the team further and how 2. bored with his style of football. They wanted him gone. Even during games you could hear it. The fans had an influence on Curbs and in particular Murray's decision to let him go. He thought it would please the fan base.
1. No such thing exists now and certainly didn't then. CL is unique in its quality. In addition, back in 2005-07 the number of households with the internet broke through the 50% mark. Back then there weren't several appliances connected to WiFi either, and certainly no 4G so usage was far more limited.
2. This is true. We often played dour football and didn't get a shot on target all match on a few occasions. I myself thought that we could do with a change but up to then I thought our directors were equally to be merited for our success. If Murray hadn't got some mad urge to get at Jordan then I think we could have got a decent replacement in. I wanted Curbs to stay the final year to help someone else bed themselves in as an assistant to be ready the next season.
They eventually forced him out, replacing him with such football ‘visionaries’ as Alan Pardew and Iain Dowie, got relegated twice, and still almost 20 years later languish in League One. Amex ‘Moaners,’ be careful what you wish for!
It does get overdone, maybe because we really did drop so hard after he left and that's why it sticks in people's minds.
However, lets not pretend that there weren't quite a few people who used to say things like "he's taken us as far as we can go". Maybe they were right. There were certainly some voices suggesting that we needed a change, let's not ignore that simply because it wasn't the majority.
The archives of Netaddicks, 606 and Talksport phone ins will confirm that a vociferous minority wanted Curbs out.
People like me, @Sailor Browneye and @oohaahmortimer stuck up for him as best we could but were belittled and outgunned by louder internet voices.
I think it true that 'the silent majority' did appreciate Curbs but plenty of posters both on here and the Site That Must Not Be Named did not back in the old Netaddicks days.
The fact that vociferous minority made so much of their antipathy towards Curbs is why such articles continue to appear and, in the eyes of neutrals, can be justified.
I always thought that Murrey went with Dowie just to piss Simon Jordan off. Well that went well, who had the last laugh and Jordan won his case against Dowie, which netted him some money
Comments
Of course a minority of fans may have wanted him gone and some of them may have been influenced in some way by Curbs' own comments. But it was a minority and there has been a rewriting of history going on that even some of our younger fans may believe.
One of my most memorable moments in football was at Curbs' final home game against Blackburn. The heartfelt applause didn't even get reported on Match of the Day, but that doesn't matter, it was a moment of respect between the fans and Curbs. He was clapped out of the Valley by fans who loved and supported him. Maybe at the time he didn't realise how valuable this is but fan involvement in him leaving was 0% at most!
Could be wrong.....
Beckford to his credit has gone some way to apologising.
The indignation on this site is mostly fair enough but this place had more than its fair share of "he's taken us as far as he can", "his head's been turned by the England nonsense", "he's too negative..."
Part of which was borne out by Curb's own version of events in his autobiography.
There's more than a feint whiff of 15 year old hypocrisy on this site
Curbs says in his Autobiography that Murray had been talking to him about renewing his contract, which had just one more year to run. Curbs didnt want this & wanted a break from football for a while, although happy to see his contract out. Murray felt thus wouldnt go down well with players that we were hoping to sign as they would want to know that the manager was in it for the long haul (my words). They then agreed for Curbs to go at the end of that season & announce it before the last home game of the season.
So. No forcing anyone out. No sacking. No "he took us as far as he could"
Curbs left in agreement with everyone.
It's in print. In black & white. From the man himself.
Curbs also offered to help find a successor but Minty didn't want his help.
I knew we'd fall apart and struggle once he left and once down that we wouldn't return for eons
The bloke worked miracles and not many could see it at the time
The issue wasn't letting Curbs leave. It was replacing him with Iain Dowie and then Alan Pardew. Two managers we still haven't recovered from fifteen years later.
Even during games you could hear it.
The fans had an influence on Curbs and in particular Murray's decision to let him go. He thought it would please the fan base.
So either they are lying and you are right, or you just got the wrong end of the stick and read in your own narrative.
It’s their voices that now mean that one of the most prominent and commonly spoken topics about us in the mainstream is this suggestion that we all wanted him out. Hope they’re proud.
He made comments in the media inferring that the fan base wanted his brother gone and that they showed no loyalty or respect for everything he had done for the club. Which we all know is very very far from the truth.
I’d say there were only 5% or so who might have openly given that impression and of them, only a small percentage went as far as saying they actually wanted him gone……the rest, far more respectfully, thought ‘maybe’ it was time for a change, which is a subtle but important difference.
I distinctly remember on NetAddicks there were just two or three posters who aired the view they wanted him gone, spearheaded by the insufferable DFT (Dave from Thamesmead), who was constantly rattling on about it for months.
Well, he and just a few other twats got their wish……didn’t they!
They didn't put me through. Next time it happens I will tell them I'm an unhappy Arsenal fan just to get through.
In addition, back in 2005-07 the number of households with the internet broke through the 50% mark. Back then there weren't several appliances connected to WiFi either, and certainly no 4G so usage was far more limited.
2. This is true. We often played dour football and didn't get a shot on target all match on a few occasions. I myself thought that we could do with a change but up to then I thought our directors were equally to be merited for our success. If Murray hadn't got some mad urge to get at Jordan then I think we could have got a decent replacement in. I wanted Curbs to stay the final year to help someone else bed themselves in as an assistant to be ready the next season.
https://www.sussexexpress.co.uk/sport/football/brighton-and-hove-albion/amex-stadium-moaners-are-warned-of-charlton-athletic-demise-after-brightons-stalemate-with-wolves-4489720?fbclid=IwAR1ftiCQR4i3Ez5KOeWqcG_iSgn2DH2SoX-tAB6UhsJcsvljSDKe-mCM2Ks
They eventually forced him out, replacing him with such football ‘visionaries’ as Alan Pardew and Iain Dowie, got relegated twice, and still almost 20 years later languish in League One. Amex ‘Moaners,’ be careful what you wish for!
I assume the Sussex Express is similar to the News shopper.
someone with better wayback machine skills than me can probably prove @LenGlover point