Haven't seen it yet but for me it has to be a visual and audio experience and roller coaster ride. The science is irrelevant, it is just a story. It doesn't do to over analyse every detail - Yoda was a muppet after all!
He’d have kicked your arse
A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.
I know all that but surely the gloves would be off if you got called a muppet? Angry I would be.
The bit where Luke went down the mountain to collect green milk from that creature with the big saggy tits. Then drink a bit and pull a ridiculous face.
What the f*** was all that about??
A theory from someone who has far too much time on their hands.
In 'A new hope', whilst living with his Aunt and Unc, Luke poured himself a glass of blue milk. I vaguely remember this. He also ended up with a blue lightsaber. He now has a green lightsaber.
The bit where Luke went down the mountain to collect green milk from that creature with the big saggy tits. Then drink a bit and pull a ridiculous face.
What the f*** was all that about??
Yeah I know, imagine drinking the breast milk of another species. Gross
It seems the only way to die due to lack of oxygen in Star Wars is to be strangled by a psychic space wizard.
Or if you're a mutant slug, by a lass in a gold bikini.
So unrealistic.
That said, even in the realms of fantasy, the spacewalk stretched the limits of feasibility. It reminded me very much of when Indiana Jones survived a nuke by hiding in a fridge. It's a fantasy universe with magic and stuff but even that seemed stupid.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
It’s pointless to keep repeating the same argument.
As for Mark Hamill, he very recently said this:
“I’ve had trouble accepting what he saw for Luke, but again, I mean, I have to say, I was wrong. I think being pushed out of your comfort zone is a good thing. Because if I was just another benevolent Jedi training young padawans... we’ve seen it!”
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
It’s pointless to keep repeating the same argument.
As for Mark Hamill, he very recently said this:
“I’ve had trouble accepting what he saw for Luke, but again, I mean, I have to say, I was wrong. I think being pushed out of your comfort zone is a good thing. Because if I was just another benevolent Jedi training young padawans... we’ve seen it!”
As far as I know they didn't change the story after Carrie Fisher died. I guess they could have edited it so that she died in the space scene but to me that would have been distasteful.
Already posted my short review but I thought it was a decent film which will grow on me when I watch it again. Like Doctor Who you have legacy fans who i think will always criticize unless the legacy characters are front and centre. The reboots though are for the new generation not us oldies. I say this as someone who watched the film and screamed silently 'nooooooo' when Luke died. We just have to get over it.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
Is the issue that you didn't have to think about science when you first watched ESB, or were you just younger and less familiar with what you were seeing? In ESB Darth Vader no-sells being shot by Han; just sticks his hand out and eats the shots. You can guarantee if that happened in the new one the fandom would spit blood all over themselves. Star Wars has been around so long now that fans think they fully understand how insane concepts like the Force work and then make incredible claims like 'that wouldn't happen' when they watched a green puppet pull a spaceship out of a swamp using his brain with wonder not that long ago.
The thing with the Force has always been that Force-users can use it when they're in a pinch if they have the knack, and also that the Force is whatever you feel like making it. Leia is from the strongest Force bloodline ever, and when she's in trouble she instinctively uses her power to save herself. Who says the Force can't do that? You can literally trick people's brains by waving your hand and shoot lightning from your hands if you feel like it. Surely surviving in space is the least of your worries!
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
Is the issue that you didn't have to think about science when you first watched ESB, or were you just younger and less familiar with what you were seeing? In ESB Darth Vader no-sells being shot by Han; just sticks his hand out and eats the shots. You can guarantee if that happened in the new one the fandom would spit blood all over themselves. Star Wars has been around so long now that fans think they fully understand how insane concepts like the Force work and then make incredible claims like 'that wouldn't happen' when they watched a green puppet pull a spaceship out of a swamp using his brain with wonder not that long ago.
The thing with the Force has always been that Force-users can use it when they're in a pinch if they have the knack, and also that the Force is whatever you feel like making it. Leia is from the strongest Force bloodline ever, and when she's in trouble she instinctively uses her power to save herself. Who says the Force can't do that? You can literally trick people's brains by waving your hand and shoot lightning from your hands if you feel like it. Surely surviving in space is the least of your worries!
It is the way it is presented. The original 3 just look more real to me and had better actors. When you looked at that scene in the city in the clouds you believed it was a real place. Vader comes in, does his bit of magic powers and it doesn't seem so ridiculous, as it takes place in a real room around a real table with real props and believable actors showing convincing involvement in the script.
In the newer films there is just too much on screen that does not look natural, so you no longer believe it really is in a galaxy far far away etc. When you also add to this the likes of Rey, who is such a is wooden actor then the whole thing is doomed.
As far as I know they didn't change the story after Carrie Fisher died. I guess they could have edited it so that she died in the space scene but to me that would have been distasteful.
The flying the ship into the star destroyer would have been a fitting way to kill off Leia imo. Having Laura Dern's character do it seemed like a waste. We knew the character for 5 mins so it's not like we care about the sacrifice.
As far as I know they didn't change the story after Carrie Fisher died. I guess they could have edited it so that she died in the space scene but to me that would have been distasteful.
The flying the ship into the star destroyer would have been a fitting way to kill off Leia imo. Having Laura Dern's character do it seemed like a waste. We knew the character for 5 mins so it's not like we care about the sacrifice.
Probably would have but we don't know what they had / have planned for the final film. Perhaps they thought having her cheat death and then die wouldn't add up in an emotional sense.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
Is the issue that you didn't have to think about science when you first watched ESB, or were you just younger and less familiar with what you were seeing? In ESB Darth Vader no-sells being shot by Han; just sticks his hand out and eats the shots. You can guarantee if that happened in the new one the fandom would spit blood all over themselves. Star Wars has been around so long now that fans think they fully understand how insane concepts like the Force work and then make incredible claims like 'that wouldn't happen' when they watched a green puppet pull a spaceship out of a swamp using his brain with wonder not that long ago.
The thing with the Force has always been that Force-users can use it when they're in a pinch if they have the knack, and also that the Force is whatever you feel like making it. Leia is from the strongest Force bloodline ever, and when she's in trouble she instinctively uses her power to save herself. Who says the Force can't do that? You can literally trick people's brains by waving your hand and shoot lightning from your hands if you feel like it. Surely surviving in space is the least of your worries!
It is the way it is presented. The original 3 just look more real to me and had better actors. When you looked at that scene in the city in the clouds you believed it was a real place. Vader comes in, does his bit of magic powers and it doesn't seem so ridiculous, as it takes place in a real room around a real table with real props and believable actors showing convincing involvement in the script.
In the newer films there is just too much on screen that does not look natural, so you no longer believe it really is in a galaxy far far away etc. When you also add to this the likes of Rey, who is such a is wooden actor then the whole thing is doomed.
Did Leia actually die in it then? Thought she was in the last scene? Or was that a ghost? (I know she's dead in real life)
Rian Johnson says they didn’t make any changes to the film whatsoever, despite Fisher’s death. They’re dealing with it in episode 9, which was supposed to focus on her. And I suspect the space-survival would’ve been dealt with in that.
And I think that’s a fair criticism of franchise filmmaking - these stories done stand on their own.
Laura Dern’s character did basically fill in for Leia, I’d love to know why they felt the need to do that.
Just got back from the cinema, absolute bobbins so so disappointed. That scene with Leia floating in space was just tragic.
Right down there with Attack of the Clones for me as the worst in the franchise
I'm with you on the Leia in space nonsense. What the f were they thinking?
With you also on that I am...;)
Yeah I hated it when Leia was in space with no space suit on. Her head should’ve imploded and so on. And not just Leia’s, but Han and Chewie’s too!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Hasnt Leia got Jedi blood in her - so essentially was able to use the force to survive in outer space or something similar?!
Yes, that’s clearly the point. She’s the daughter of arguably the most powerful force user in history. And my slightly sarcastic point is that Han, Chewie and Leia all survived in space sans spacesuits in ESB. But people love that movie so nobody bothered questioning it.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
I hate to nitpick but re: your first paragraph Han Leia and Chewie were wearing breathing equipment and weren't strictly speaking in space itself, they were inside a giant asteroid snake thing. Not sure if that justifies it but I think people question it less not because ESB is considered the best movie but because it is a trivial detail at best. Most people who went to the cinema to watch TLJ knowing full well that Carrie Fisher cannot return for part 3 may have expected her being blasted into space to be her swansong, and thus her cheating death was a much bigger part of that scene and indeed the entire film.
I find your nitpicking unconvincing. They were in the stomach of an Exogorth aka a worm. In space. On an asteroid. Wearing tiny plastic masks. Star Wars has always played fast and loose with the rules of space vacuums. Explosions in space? Sound in space? Rear engines on the fighters in zero gravity?
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
The thing is, that scene in ESB was convincing, whereas the one in TLJ is not. Nobody thought when watching ESB, "oh that's ridiculous, they've left the falcon and gone into space", whereas the scene with Leia in TLJ is just daft. And that is what all the films have lacked since the original 3 - a sense of them being believable and the audience being taken into another world while watching. Back then you didn't even need to think about science. This is imo due to the more recent films having crap: stories, scripts, cgi , actors, sets, directors. Mark Hamill has evidently said he hates the Luke he had to play in this film.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
Is the issue that you didn't have to think about science when you first watched ESB, or were you just younger and less familiar with what you were seeing? In ESB Darth Vader no-sells being shot by Han; just sticks his hand out and eats the shots. You can guarantee if that happened in the new one the fandom would spit blood all over themselves. Star Wars has been around so long now that fans think they fully understand how insane concepts like the Force work and then make incredible claims like 'that wouldn't happen' when they watched a green puppet pull a spaceship out of a swamp using his brain with wonder not that long ago.
The thing with the Force has always been that Force-users can use it when they're in a pinch if they have the knack, and also that the Force is whatever you feel like making it. Leia is from the strongest Force bloodline ever, and when she's in trouble she instinctively uses her power to save herself. Who says the Force can't do that? You can literally trick people's brains by waving your hand and shoot lightning from your hands if you feel like it. Surely surviving in space is the least of your worries!
It is the way it is presented. The original 3 just look more real to me and had better actors. When you looked at that scene in the city in the clouds you believed it was a real place. Vader comes in, does his bit of magic powers and it doesn't seem so ridiculous, as it takes place in a real room around a real table with real props and believable actors showing convincing involvement in the script.
In the newer films there is just too much on screen that does not look natural, so you no longer believe it really is in a galaxy far far away etc. When you also add to this the likes of Rey, who is such a is wooden actor then the whole thing is doomed.
This is a proper face palm post.
I wouldn't go that far Jimmy. I'm just casting an opinion about something that in the wider world is largely unimportant. I know you are a film expert and get the feeling you perhaps work in the industry? And I respect that.
In the end of the day I'm only talking from one punter's perspective. I loved the original star wars trilogy. Indeed I hated it when Lucas messed around with them in the nineties before the prequels came out.
It's aesthetics. What makes something great? It is a philosophical debate with no clear answer. But for me the modern star wars stuff just lacks authenticity. I know that might sound ridiculous when all the films are fantasy stories, but I'm not on about the content so much, more about the way it is presented. Back in 77, 80, 83 it was so much more convincing.
One of the big selling points of the sequels is that they’re employing a large degree of physical effects. Indeed, Disney won’t shut up about it. They created tons and tons of physical props and sets, and shot on many locations (unlike the mostly green-screen episodes 2 and 3 prequels).
There are issues with TLJ, and each to their own when it comes to appreciating it (I hope at least some will come to change their mind, either on second viewing or after the sequel comes along, I really hope so cos those of us who enjoyed it really do love what they’ve done with the story, despite knowing the plot has flaws).
Whether or not you like Daisy Ridley is personal preference obviously (I think Domnhall Gleeson is cringe-inducingly bad), but you’re the first I’ve heard to criticise her.
My 9 year old didn’t question any part of the film, which I think says it all.
Absolutely this. My daughter (also 9) loved it. She was blown away. She loved the fights, the space stuff, the comedy, the weird nun creatures and, Chewbacca and the little puffin things. She thought the whole thing was amazing. That’s all I wanted. It wasn’t about me. (But I enjoyed it too.) I don’t understand why any adult who saw the first 3 films as a child would expect the new films to fill you with as much wonder as the originals did. Here’s the thing - you aren’t a kid anymore. Why can’t you just allow yourself to relax and enjoy it?
Comments
In 'A new hope', whilst living with his Aunt and Unc, Luke poured himself a glass of blue milk. I vaguely remember this. He also ended up with a blue lightsaber.
He now has a green lightsaber.
!!!
Oh... is it just TLJ we’re picking on here? Not Empire?
Or if you're a mutant slug, by a lass in a gold bikini.
So unrealistic.
That said, even in the realms of fantasy, the spacewalk stretched the limits of feasibility. It reminded me very much of when Indiana Jones survived a nuke by hiding in a fridge. It's a fantasy universe with magic and stuff but even that seemed stupid.
To me, TLJ is a fantastic film. I think it’s got depth most SW films don’t manage. And that’s bemused some of the audience in different ways. Looking for issues with the internal logic is a part of that. You can find verisimilitude issues or ‘plot holes’ with absolutely any film if you want to. I know Leia in space is pushing that pretty far, but it’s not the craziest thing SW canon has ever done, and I thought it was shot so beautifully that it didn’t bother me at all.
The only thing I’d change is General Hux. Domnhall Gleeson is a great actor. I don’t know why he’s playing it like a Cbeebies pantomime villain.
Star Wars is NOT science fiction. It never was. It’s a fantasy franchise and the Leia scene didn’t break its own rules as per ESB’s treatment. Hell, the same scene exists exists in Guardians of the Galaxy and nobody complained there.
I’d rather Johnson had not stirred this hornets’ nest, it’s detracting from the film, but many of us suspend enough disbelief to go with it.
Moreover, my lad was left perplexed as to (a) why they have Leia exercising that level of strength when she is not even trained in the force; and (b) why they did not kill her off when she had died in real life.
Its a dud.
As for Mark Hamill, he very recently said this:
“I’ve had trouble accepting what he saw for Luke, but again, I mean, I have to say, I was wrong. I think being pushed out of your comfort zone is a good thing. Because if I was just another benevolent Jedi training young padawans... we’ve seen it!”
Already posted my short review but I thought it was a decent film which will grow on me when I watch it again. Like Doctor Who you have legacy fans who i think will always criticize unless the legacy characters are front and centre. The reboots though are for the new generation not us oldies. I say this as someone who watched the film and screamed silently 'nooooooo' when Luke died. We just have to get over it.
The thing with the Force has always been that Force-users can use it when they're in a pinch if they have the knack, and also that the Force is whatever you feel like making it. Leia is from the strongest Force bloodline ever, and when she's in trouble she instinctively uses her power to save herself. Who says the Force can't do that? You can literally trick people's brains by waving your hand and shoot lightning from your hands if you feel like it. Surely surviving in space is the least of your worries!
In the newer films there is just too much on screen that does not look natural, so you no longer believe it really is in a galaxy far far away etc. When you also add to this the likes of Rey, who is such a is wooden actor then the whole thing is doomed.
And I think that’s a fair criticism of franchise filmmaking - these stories done stand on their own.
Laura Dern’s character did basically fill in for Leia, I’d love to know why they felt the need to do that.
In the end of the day I'm only talking from one punter's perspective. I loved the original star wars trilogy. Indeed I hated it when Lucas messed around with them in the nineties before the prequels came out.
It's aesthetics. What makes something great? It is a philosophical debate with no clear answer. But for me the modern star wars stuff just lacks authenticity. I know that might sound ridiculous when all the films are fantasy stories, but I'm not on about the content so much, more about the way it is presented. Back in 77, 80, 83 it was so much more convincing.
All the best.
There are issues with TLJ, and each to their own when it comes to appreciating it (I hope at least some will come to change their mind, either on second viewing or after the sequel comes along, I really hope so cos those of us who enjoyed it really do love what they’ve done with the story, despite knowing the plot has flaws).
Whether or not you like Daisy Ridley is personal preference obviously (I think Domnhall Gleeson is cringe-inducingly bad), but you’re the first I’ve heard to criticise her.
I just can’t get my head around the moaning!
I don’t understand why any adult who saw the first 3 films as a child would expect the new films to fill you with as much wonder as the originals did. Here’s the thing - you aren’t a kid anymore.
Why can’t you just allow yourself to relax and enjoy it?