Whilst I applaud the new resolve shown on here, it does beg a few questions.
Given that everyone on here knew eighteen months ago that the club was owned by a mendacious nutcase and run by nasty lying incompetents, why did people renew their season tickets for this season? What has changed?
If Roland doesn't sell up by August, is everyone who is protesting going to boycott next season. If not, what is the point they are making?
Quite simply it’s never a straightforward answer. I tried not renewing my ST last season but I found it really difficult not going to The Valley and ended up going more regular than I intended.
This season my kids have been begging me to take them. I want them as into Charlton as me and hopefully build in a lifetime bond we could mutually share. Despite the current shiteness of the situation, I love now going to football as a family and our kids sharing what has always been something that’s ingrained in both me and my wife.
If Roland has not sold by this summer, which I fear will not have happened (I’ve had zero confidence in a sale for a year), I’ll obviously have to reassess (particularly as the club are turning over our area to freebies). But not sure at the moment what my answer will be.
This, it's never quite as straightforward as some would like, and there's a fair few posts already that are very quick to judge others on either side. Results have been appalling, with no protests at all, i am certain this will have no effect on their performance - can it get worse?
I've not had a ST for a while now, but if my mates were going, or if my kid was begging me I couldn't say for sure I wouldn't cave. If I was there i'd certainly join a protest - even though i'm unsure of the effect it would have.
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
It's a shame things like that have happened but it doesn't mean everyone who supports CARD would agree with it.
Well you are a better person than me, there is a line you don’t cross and members of CARD have crossed it twice, no respect for them at all
Just a thought, but is your issue not therefore with two individuals then, rather than CARD?
I presume you didn't appreciate Roger Johnson's comments, but does that mean you should hate the whole club as a result?
No, and there is no relevance to what was said to my son as we walked out the club shop by a few pathetic blokes and some poster whom called me a "scab" and compared to going to the games as miners crossing the picket line in the 80's.
You are milking this a bit - I'm sure you can cope with people disagreeing with you and not always being 100% polite. This is Charlton ffs which is positively genteel compared to most clubs.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
Surely, those remarks were made by one or two individuals and such comments I hope you accept would not necessarily be voiced by the majority. So, IMO, they are not valid reasons for losing respect for the entire CARD initiative which is a coalition of a number of groups actively seeking change of ownership and whose numbers will be in the thousands.
Instead, you are making it all about you and your contact with two individuals whilst not addressing the wider issue of whether you agree or not that that the CARD protests are a valid or effective way of engineering change and/or providing opportunities for fans to voice their deep concerns at the way the club has and is being run and to bring this to the attention of the wider footballing community and indeed those who run the game.
Don't think that's what's being said, but there seems to be a groundswell that reminding the powers that be of the discomfort the fans can bring them, both here and in Belgium, is timely.
I think CARD has been remarkably patient to be honest. It feels this is capturing a mood at the very least.
You have left it open for them though ,
I ain't getting involved in the rights or wrongs of protesting and it’s worth or it’s negative argument
But when you spoke to Murray last time many said why bother he is. Liar he will tell you what he thinks you want to hear and none of it will come off or turn out to be true
Yet even in this statement its suggested that if someone speaks and tells you different there may not be a protest
The only thing that should stop you protesting if that’s what people want to do is the sale it’s self
I guess you're referring to the phrase "...unless there is firm news of new Charlton Athletic owners before April." Firm news means a specific announcement of the sale, not another vague update from Murray or any kind of placatory comments from Duchatelet. No firm announcement and the protests go ahead.
Hahaha the same that bloke tweeted done deal now wants to protest because...... There is no done deal? Hahahaha... Beyond parody!
You seem to have a poor grasp of the meaning of parody there sunshine.
Banging on about donedeal is just pathetic point scoring against an individual, it adds no substance to the objectors supposed argument to continue to allow things spiral further and further down.
The idea that because it has been worse in the past means you don't protest now is extraordinary and illogical. What do you want people to do? Go and wave "Fryer Out" banners?
Most people have said they will attend the games, support the team and protest, yet the objectors keep claiming the protesters are not supporting the team, despite continually being told otherwise. Like on certain other threads, they are making up their own arguments in their heads. Read what people have written, not what you would like them to write because that's the only thing you can realistically argue with. Protests have never had a negative effect on the team, the players have said so. Why do you continue to ignore that fact?
I cannot be there, but it appears there is no alternative to protests, whatever a few cap-doffers claim.
Good luck guys and gals!
COYR!
Exactly - and the protests must include no renewal of ST's.
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
It's a shame things like that have happened but it doesn't mean everyone who supports CARD would agree with it.
Well you are a better person than me, there is a line you don’t cross and members of CARD have crossed it twice, no respect for them at all
Just a thought, but is your issue not therefore with two individuals then, rather than CARD?
I presume you didn't appreciate Roger Johnson's comments, but does that mean you should hate the whole club as a result?
No, and there is no relevance to what was said to my son as we walked out the club shop by a few pathetic blokes and some poster whom called me a "scab" and compared to going to the games as miners crossing the picket line in the 80's.
You are milking this a bit - I'm sure you can cope with people disagreeing with you and not always being 100% polite. This is Charlton ffs which is positively genteel compared to most clubs.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
I am happy to chat to anyone, do you not condone a group of guys making remarks a child then ? No one is milking anything i was asked a question in which why i disagree with CARD. Don't try and justify the actions.
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
He’s over 16 - not really your sort of row is it?
Wish to elaborate on that comment. Or do you want to PM other posters on here about me as you have done in the past ?
Ohhh the irony of this.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
He’s over 16 - not really your sort of row is it?
Wish to elaborate on that comment. Or do you want to PM other posters on here about me as you have done in the past ?
Ohhh the irony of this.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
Whilst I applaud the new resolve shown on here, it does beg a few questions.
Given that everyone on here knew eighteen months ago that the club was owned by a mendacious nutcase and run by nasty lying incompetents, why did people renew their season tickets for this season? What has changed?
If Roland doesn't sell up by August, is everyone who is protesting going to boycott next season. If not, what is the point they are making?
Some of us recognised pretty much from the outset that Duchatelet was poison and got together in 2014 to raise concerns. We couldn’t carry majority opinion at that time because people wanted to give the regime a chance, despite being unhappy with the Kermorgant/Powell issues, which is fair enough.
It’s OK to say that this or that was obvious to you or me at any particular stage but realistically unless you are channeling the wider mood you will be marginalised. Like it or not, the regime made changes on the football side after 2016. It remained dysfunctional and incompetent but it did move in the direction fans wanted. That had to play out before many people would accept it could not succeed. New season, keeping Holmes and Konsa, Robinson being better than Slade and the rest, people wanted to believe it was different, not too bad, etc - not everyone but enough to make any protests divisive, because they threatened that illusion.
Alongside that you have a situation where pretty much all the former directors, ex-senior staff, respected former players, local media, long-standing sponsors and other people in the game - and a number of current staff - have long recognised that Duchatelet is an existential threat to the club, reflected in the large number of older fans who have walked away or joined protests. They all recognise this is not a normal blip.
But you have Murray, the Parkes and one or two other insiders rejecting that narrative to protect their own position - or in some cases because they are fundamentally thick - which allows space for the tiny number of apologists and people pursuing narrow and often incoherent agendas (“the protests are left-wing”, for example).
You also have a lot of people who feel helpless or don’t even care that much.
In short, people will protest when they have to confront the reality, not just because others tell them it is time. It’s pointless complaining that they didn’t feel that way earlier, because they didn’t.
In reality we have moved a long, long way from last spring because RD (whose own narrative is misinformed and often incoherent nonsense) has engaged extensively in a process to sell the club, which for example he refused to do point blank in January 2016. We know that because there have been any number of leaks from different professionals in the process who are outside the club and from the interested parties, so the suggestion it is faked to stop protests is a complete non-starter. We don’t need to rely on what the club says, even though it had tallied since December pretty much. We have evidence of Meire (and Joyes, to a lesser extent) jumping ship.
It doesn’t help when people say it could all be made up to stall protests. It couldn’t and isn’t. The time and money involved is disproportionate.
I for one will not go to The Valley next season if Duchatelet still owns the club, but everyone has to reach their own decision how to respond in their own time. Criticising them for what they did last year or six months ago is pointless.
I haven't said or implied that suggestions that the club is up for sale are fake or designed to stop protests.
It has been clear for a long time that the current ownership of the club is and has been disastrous. As you say some recognised this before others but I think it would be fair to say that the protests reached a critical mass over the winter of 15/16. I don't think that any regular Charlton fan could honestly say that by late Spring 2017 that they were unaware of the situation. As you say some people believed that there had been improvements on the playing side and purchased season tickets in the belief and hope that things were improving. My argument is that that belief and hope no longer holds water. If people are motivated enough to protest again against the ownership then it would be incongruous if they then each paid Roland hundreds of pounds to continue the damage being done to the club.
As a sometime politician, would you not find it slightly bizarre if someone worked to get a Labour councillor elected, voted Labour but then donated hundreds of pounds to the Conservatives?
Entirely bogus comparison though, because what people are paying for - the whole business of following their club - is a lot more complex than simply giving money to Duchatelet, even if that’s part of the outcome.
I don't think it is. On the " Roland Tapes", Roland implies that those still attending games support him.
that unfortunately is probably true knowing his lack of understanding when it comes to football fans. I still go to games (though not to as many as I used to) yet I certainly don't support him ever since he sold Yann and he hasn't done anything (but make things worse) to make me change my mind on that.
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
He’s over 16 - not really your sort of row is it?
Wish to elaborate on that comment. Or do you want to PM other posters on here about me as you have done in the past ?
Ohhh the irony of this.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
LOL, tell the full story you clown
What's there to tell? We disagreed on a thread you messaged me and I apologised if you'd taken offense but stood by my points (because I'm not a knuckle dragger whose only way to resolve a disagreement is through fighting). You then started threatening me and got upset when I called you a sad internet troll.
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
He’s over 16 - not really your sort of row is it?
Wish to elaborate on that comment. Or do you want to PM other posters on here about me as you have done in the past ?
Ohhh the irony of this.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
LOL, tell the full story you clown
What's there to tell? We disagreed on a thread you messaged me and I apologised if you'd taken offense but stood by my points (because I'm not a knuckle dragger whose only way to resolve a disagreement is through fighting). You then started threatening me and got upset when I called you a sad internet troll.
I never threatened, the facts are you openly accused and made accusations on an open forum in which were wrong, i said if you want to say such things then say it to my face and here is where i am at and where i can be found, hardly threatening, we can all be keyboard warriors and snipe at people but then when confronted you accuse people of threatening you, not one threat of violence was made, in fact i told you to meet me in a public place either before or after a match. So please if you wish to make an issue please tell the full story.
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
He’s over 16 - not really your sort of row is it?
Wish to elaborate on that comment. Or do you want to PM other posters on here about me as you have done in the past ?
Ohhh the irony of this.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
LOL, tell the full story you clown
What's there to tell? We disagreed on a thread you messaged me and I apologised if you'd taken offense but stood by my points (because I'm not a knuckle dragger whose only way to resolve a disagreement is through fighting). You then started threatening me and got upset when I called you a sad internet troll.
I never threatened, the facts are you openly accused and made accusations on an open forum in which were wrong, i said if you want to say such things then say it to my face and here is where i am at and where i can be found, hardly threatening, we can all be keyboard warriors and snipe at people but then when confronted you accuse people of threatening you, not one threat of violence was made, in fact i told you to meet me in a public place either before or after a match. So please if you wish to make an issue please tell the full story.
Really? So saying "people know who I am, come and find me at the lib and me and my mates can show you what's what" that's not a threat? Saying "I suggest you avoid Charlton for a while as you might run into the wrong people" that's not a threat? Saying you were trying to find out who I am so you could do the above. Thays not a threat?
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
It's a shame things like that have happened but it doesn't mean everyone who supports CARD would agree with it.
Well you are a better person than me, there is a line you don’t cross and members of CARD have crossed it twice, no respect for them at all
Just a thought, but is your issue not therefore with two individuals then, rather than CARD?
I presume you didn't appreciate Roger Johnson's comments, but does that mean you should hate the whole club as a result?
No, and there is no relevance to what was said to my son as we walked out the club shop by a few pathetic blokes and some poster whom called me a "scab" and compared to going to the games as miners crossing the picket line in the 80's.
You are milking this a bit - I'm sure you can cope with people disagreeing with you and not always being 100% polite. This is Charlton ffs which is positively genteel compared to most clubs.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
I am happy to chat to anyone, do you not condone a group of guys making remarks a child then ? No one is milking anything i was asked a question in which why i disagree with CARD. Don't try and justify the actions.
WIWLB,
You were asked this question (page 4 of the thread):
"Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?"
You replied:
"The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike."
That's one guy, not a group. One single individual among thousands, lending his support to a very loose coalition of people with the same aim. One guy. Acting on his own.
For the record, I condemn his actions unreservedly - a very silly and intimidatory thing to do. I am not justifying them.
Which member of the CARD brigade called you a scab?
EDIT: AFKA's subsequent post explains the scab comment. So Rick has never actually upset you personally in any way, the person who mentioned scab is just anti-regime, not involved in the hierarchy of CARD at all, and one person said a stupid thing to your lad. Forgive me for thinking that that is a wafer thin basis on which to condemn the thoughts and actions of thousands of individuals.
Just catching up this morning and it seems to have got a bit personal and unnecessary.
Let’s be clear it is in everyone’s rights to have a different view, and if that view is on agreeing OR disagreeing with protests then that’s entirely their choice. And that is fundamentally the purpose of this forum for people to be able to air that view and have a debate on it. Where it goes wrong is when it starts getting personal, niche and away from the topic.
@WhenIwasLittleBoy you’ve made clear from day one that you don’t agree with the protests. Fair enough, you're entitled to that view and I don’t think there is any value in attempting to change your mind now as I think your feelings are deep-rooted and formed from a dislike of some individuals you know / think are involved in CARD and their politics.
In terms of the 'scab' stuff however, I think it’s important to add context and to make clear this was a generalisation and not a personal comment that directed at you or a response to any other contributor.
A poster in March 16 wrote on a thread about renewing season tickets early ‘Anyone that renews before July is a scab in my eyes. No need for it at all.’ They also added after it was posted that 435 people had renewed ‘435 scabs’. That poster had long before that point stopped going, seems from what I can see on Facebook to have completely disengaged with Charlton, has never been part of the CARD organising group and as far as I’m aware never supported in person any protest. This is all searchable under ‘scab’.
The point I’m trying to make is I don't think its fair attaching a throwaway generalised comment with CARD from someone who has never been involved with CARD or participated in any of their protests.
As for the wider stuff on protesting, what value there is in re-starting them etc. I scratch my head on it as I genuinely don’t know what the right answer is. I’ve no idea what protests CARD have planned so no thoughts on whether the they will be worthwhile, achieving of goals etc
What I do think though is that this is the most important and concerning time in the whole aspect of Duchatelet’s reign, and all I ask is people (even if they don’t like some protest leaders) just pretend that no protest stuff has ever existed and to look at the situation with a fresh pair of eyes.
In my opinion RD is no longer financially supporting ‘Meire’s project’ and on the basis that he never had any real interest in us at all in a football sense, he will almost certainly wash his hands of that now.
This club HAS to change hands in the next few months imo otherwise I’m convinced we will need a miracle to avoid a relegation battle next season.
He will get his money out one way or another because he is borne of stubbornness and arrogance and I genuinely fear for the future of the club in how he might get his return / loss-offset. If he is still here then this will not be a squad momentum point (that opportunity was there in Jan and it wasn’t taken), but a mass exercise in cost reduction / value sales. I fear we will be stuck in a cycle where RD’s valuation to sell will always be unrealistic and the club just continues to decline. No players are going to want to sign for us unless they have no other option, and those here unless they are on good contracts will definitely be looking to escape.
Whether you support protests or not, there cannot be a single person left who still believes that RD’s continued ownership is what is best for Charlton.
I’ll probably support whatever the protests are as I’m more weighted to the view that ‘do nothing’ is not the right answer as it will simply prolong the steady decline and shrinking of the club to the point it will become too much of an uphill battle to then reverse as apathy sets in further. So CARD, ROT and whoever else trying to do stuff home and abroad to bring forward a sale have my support and from what I suspect is also the majority view of fans.
If others don’t agree with that, I’d be genuinely interested to hear why and happy to debate the pros and cons. But grateful if everyone could make an effort going forward to keep the personal stuff out of the debate please. cheers
Whilst I applaud the new resolve shown on here, it does beg a few questions.
Given that everyone on here knew eighteen months ago that the club was owned by a mendacious nutcase and run by nasty lying incompetents, why did people renew their season tickets for this season? What has changed?
If Roland doesn't sell up by August, is everyone who is protesting going to boycott next season. If not, what is the point they are making?
Some of us recognised pretty much from the outset that Duchatelet was poison and got together in 2014 to raise concerns. We couldn’t carry majority opinion at that time because people wanted to give the regime a chance, despite being unhappy with the Kermorgant/Powell issues, which is fair enough.
It’s OK to say that this or that was obvious to you or me at any particular stage but realistically unless you are channeling the wider mood you will be marginalised. Like it or not, the regime made changes on the football side after 2016. It remained dysfunctional and incompetent but it did move in the direction fans wanted. That had to play out before many people would accept it could not succeed. New season, keeping Holmes and Konsa, Robinson being better than Slade and the rest, people wanted to believe it was different, not too bad, etc - not everyone but enough to make any protests divisive, because they threatened that illusion.
Alongside that you have a situation where pretty much all the former directors, ex-senior staff, respected former players, local media, long-standing sponsors and other people in the game - and a number of current staff - have long recognised that Duchatelet is an existential threat to the club, reflected in the large number of older fans who have walked away or joined protests. They all recognise this is not a normal blip.
But you have Murray, the Parkes and one or two other insiders rejecting that narrative to protect their own position - or in some cases because they are fundamentally thick - which allows space for the tiny number of apologists and people pursuing narrow and often incoherent agendas (“the protests are left-wing”, for example).
You also have a lot of people who feel helpless or don’t even care that much.
In short, people will protest when they have to confront the reality, not just because others tell them it is time. It’s pointless complaining that they didn’t feel that way earlier, because they didn’t.
In reality we have moved a long, long way from last spring because RD (whose own narrative is misinformed and often incoherent nonsense) has engaged extensively in a process to sell the club, which for example he refused to do point blank in January 2016. We know that because there have been any number of leaks from different professionals in the process who are outside the club and from the interested parties, so the suggestion it is faked to stop protests is a complete non-starter. We don’t need to rely on what the club says, even though it had tallied since December pretty much. We have evidence of Meire (and Joyes, to a lesser extent) jumping ship.
It doesn’t help when people say it could all be made up to stall protests. It couldn’t and isn’t. The time and money involved is disproportionate.
I for one will not go to The Valley next season if Duchatelet still owns the club, but everyone has to reach their own decision how to respond in their own time. Criticising them for what they did last year or six months ago is pointless.
I haven't said or implied that suggestions that the club is up for sale are fake or designed to stop protests.
It has been clear for a long time that the current ownership of the club is and has been disastrous. As you say some recognised this before others but I think it would be fair to say that the protests reached a critical mass over the winter of 15/16. I don't think that any regular Charlton fan could honestly say that by late Spring 2017 that they were unaware of the situation. As you say some people believed that there had been improvements on the playing side and purchased season tickets in the belief and hope that things were improving. My argument is that that belief and hope no longer holds water. If people are motivated enough to protest again against the ownership then it would be incongruous if they then each paid Roland hundreds of pounds to continue the damage being done to the club.
As a sometime politician, would you not find it slightly bizarre if someone worked to get a Labour councillor elected, voted Labour but then donated hundreds of pounds to the Conservatives?
Entirely bogus comparison though, because what people are paying for - the whole business of following their club - is a lot more complex than simply giving money to Duchatelet, even if that’s part of the outcome.
Convenient response, as people involved with CARD pay to see matches, some even ST holders. Still!
Yet are happy to summon people to The Valley, often (in the past) urging people to BUY seats in the most expensive area of the ground to 'protest'.
I don't get it myself. None of this will hurt Duchâtelet one iota. As for the press thing, it keeps it in the public eye over here but people have known for years we are a (in Robinson's words) basket case club.
It is just encouraging people to come to The Valley.
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
He’s over 16 - not really your sort of row is it?
Wish to elaborate on that comment. Or do you want to PM other posters on here about me as you have done in the past ?
Ohhh the irony of this.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
LOL, tell the full story you clown
What's there to tell? We disagreed on a thread you messaged me and I apologised if you'd taken offense but stood by my points (because I'm not a knuckle dragger whose only way to resolve a disagreement is through fighting). You then started threatening me and got upset when I called you a sad internet troll.
I never threatened, the facts are you openly accused and made accusations on an open forum in which were wrong, i said if you want to say such things then say it to my face and here is where i am at and where i can be found, hardly threatening, we can all be keyboard warriors and snipe at people but then when confronted you accuse people of threatening you, not one threat of violence was made, in fact i told you to meet me in a public place either before or after a match. So please if you wish to make an issue please tell the full story.
Really? So saying "people know who I am, come and find me at the lib and me and my mates can show you what's what" that's not a threat? Saying "I suggest you avoid Charlton for a while as you might run into the wrong people" that's not a threat? Saying you were trying to find out who I am so you could do the above. Thays not a threat?
Interesting.
Don't worry though we all know you're all talk.
There is a big problem making veiled threats to people you don't know. That person could turn out to be the biggest laxative you might ever experience.
Whilst I applaud the new resolve shown on here, it does beg a few questions.
Given that everyone on here knew eighteen months ago that the club was owned by a mendacious nutcase and run by nasty lying incompetents, why did people renew their season tickets for this season? What has changed?
If Roland doesn't sell up by August, is everyone who is protesting going to boycott next season. If not, what is the point they are making?
Some of us recognised pretty much from the outset that Duchatelet was poison and got together in 2014 to raise concerns. We couldn’t carry majority opinion at that time because people wanted to give the regime a chance, despite being unhappy with the Kermorgant/Powell issues, which is fair enough.
It’s OK to say that this or that was obvious to you or me at any particular stage but realistically unless you are channeling the wider mood you will be marginalised. Like it or not, the regime made changes on the football side after 2016. It remained dysfunctional and incompetent but it did move in the direction fans wanted. That had to play out before many people would accept it could not succeed. New season, keeping Holmes and Konsa, Robinson being better than Slade and the rest, people wanted to believe it was different, not too bad, etc - not everyone but enough to make any protests divisive, because they threatened that illusion.
Alongside that you have a situation where pretty much all the former directors, ex-senior staff, respected former players, local media, long-standing sponsors and other people in the game - and a number of current staff - have long recognised that Duchatelet is an existential threat to the club, reflected in the large number of older fans who have walked away or joined protests. They all recognise this is not a normal blip.
But you have Murray, the Parkes and one or two other insiders rejecting that narrative to protect their own position - or in some cases because they are fundamentally thick - which allows space for the tiny number of apologists and people pursuing narrow and often incoherent agendas (“the protests are left-wing”, for example).
You also have a lot of people who feel helpless or don’t even care that much.
In short, people will protest when they have to confront the reality, not just because others tell them it is time. It’s pointless complaining that they didn’t feel that way earlier, because they didn’t.
In reality we have moved a long, long way from last spring because RD (whose own narrative is misinformed and often incoherent nonsense) has engaged extensively in a process to sell the club, which for example he refused to do point blank in January 2016. We know that because there have been any number of leaks from different professionals in the process who are outside the club and from the interested parties, so the suggestion it is faked to stop protests is a complete non-starter. We don’t need to rely on what the club says, even though it had tallied since December pretty much. We have evidence of Meire (and Joyes, to a lesser extent) jumping ship.
It doesn’t help when people say it could all be made up to stall protests. It couldn’t and isn’t. The time and money involved is disproportionate.
I for one will not go to The Valley next season if Duchatelet still owns the club, but everyone has to reach their own decision how to respond in their own time. Criticising them for what they did last year or six months ago is pointless.
I haven't said or implied that suggestions that the club is up for sale are fake or designed to stop protests.
It has been clear for a long time that the current ownership of the club is and has been disastrous. As you say some recognised this before others but I think it would be fair to say that the protests reached a critical mass over the winter of 15/16. I don't think that any regular Charlton fan could honestly say that by late Spring 2017 that they were unaware of the situation. As you say some people believed that there had been improvements on the playing side and purchased season tickets in the belief and hope that things were improving. My argument is that that belief and hope no longer holds water. If people are motivated enough to protest again against the ownership then it would be incongruous if they then each paid Roland hundreds of pounds to continue the damage being done to the club.
As a sometime politician, would you not find it slightly bizarre if someone worked to get a Labour councillor elected, voted Labour but then donated hundreds of pounds to the Conservatives?
Entirely bogus comparison though, because what people are paying for - the whole business of following their club - is a lot more complex than simply giving money to Duchatelet, even if that’s part of the outcome.
Convenient response, as people involved with CARD pay to see matches, some even ST holders. Still!
Yet are happy to summon people to The Valley, often (in the past) urging people to BUY seats in the most expensive area of the ground to 'protest'.
I don't get it myself. None of this will hurt Duchâtelet one iota. As for the press thing, it keeps it in the public eye over here but people have known for years we are a (in Robinson's words) basket case club.
It is just encouraging people to come to The Valley.
@boggzy Airman clearly said 'I for one will not go to The Valley next season if Duchatelet still owns the club, but everyone has to reach their own decision how to respond in their own time. Criticising them for what they did last year or six months ago is pointless.' so I'm not sure that is fair.
And of all the people I know that are currently involved with CARD, I believe only one of them (who takes his son) is still a ST holder
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
It's a shame things like that have happened but it doesn't mean everyone who supports CARD would agree with it.
Well you are a better person than me, there is a line you don’t cross and members of CARD have crossed it twice, no respect for them at all
Just a thought, but is your issue not therefore with two individuals then, rather than CARD?
I presume you didn't appreciate Roger Johnson's comments, but does that mean you should hate the whole club as a result?
No, and there is no relevance to what was said to my son as we walked out the club shop by a few pathetic blokes and some poster whom called me a "scab" and compared to going to the games as miners crossing the picket line in the 80's.
You are milking this a bit - I'm sure you can cope with people disagreeing with you and not always being 100% polite. This is Charlton ffs which is positively genteel compared to most clubs.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
I am happy to chat to anyone, do you not condone a group of guys making remarks a child then ? No one is milking anything i was asked a question in which why i disagree with CARD. Don't try and justify the actions.
I only have your anecdotal evidence which as I wasn't there I can't really comment on. If people make comments to a child that's daft - I have no idea who these individuals are.
You strike me as against the protests and seem to be clutching at straws trying to depict CARD/protesters in a bad light. We're not West Ham and don't have a history of fighting between our fans.
If I was with one of my children at Charlton and someone was rude to them I would call the person out - I'm happy to have a chat with someone unless it appears they are some sort of psycho.
I've been going to football since the 70s and Charlton is not one of the places I've felt threatened at. We have a few idiots in our support but generally most are okay.
What a sad state of affairs when we have so called fans that are now motivated to go to the ground to demonstrate rather than support the team. Lets hope those who are cheesed off with the demos and CARD don't turn up could all get a bit messy.
Team? You mean that mob that turn up, put in half a shift, get beat and go home? The ones that Robinson told to not bother coming back if they weren’t interested?
A few bad results and throw your toys out your pram. Rather than support the team, you get more passionate about that's laughable. People want to make their minds up. In one breath you snipe at the manager and call him "Gobinson" and when it suits you take what he says as gospel.
And you lot on the FB page slag off the protesters who go to the games anyway, calling them two faced. Why? It was made clear at the beginning of the protests for fans to support the team, not the regime. This call for a protest is not in response to a couple of bad results, it is in response to a sale process that is going nowhere while the club is being left to rot. Do you not realise that the club should be preparing for next season already, setting season ticket prices, identifying players to buy, recruiting senior staff. Can you also not see that this protracted sale IS affecting the manager and the players, quite simply because they also need to know where they stand going forward.
One last thing, you and your mates on the FB page have constantly ridiculed all of the protests, either at the Valley or in Belgium, yet what have you done? Why not get a mob of your old school hard cases over to Belgium and show us how to do it? I have put that question twice now on the FB page and not one of you has answered, yet you want to get a crew together to attack protesters? Get your fucking priorities right for Christ's sake.
Grow up.
I promise I will when you have answered my questions, which are in no way childish anyway. I'll make it easy for you. Would you rather attack A. the idiot who has completely buggered up the club from top to bottom, or B. a group of fans who are trying to get rid of him?
All this negative energy is not good for you, life is to short.
Completely agree. So why did you come on this thread, knowing full well how it would play out?
I for one am looking forward to the protests re-starting. I'm taking a load of lads to the Blackburn game and it will nice for them to have something to break up the monotonous passing across our back line
The protests had a lot of publicity two years ago and brought the club's plight to the attention of a lot more people.
If nothing else, a resumption of the protests will bring the way the club is currently being 'managed' to a greater audience. There has been no CEO since December, there is no CFO and KR seems to be implying that reviews of player's contracts are on hold. To gain publicity that this club is just limping along under RD's ownership can only be a good thing.
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
It's a shame things like that have happened but it doesn't mean everyone who supports CARD would agree with it.
Well you are a better person than me, there is a line you don’t cross and members of CARD have crossed it twice, no respect for them at all
Just a thought, but is your issue not therefore with two individuals then, rather than CARD?
I presume you didn't appreciate Roger Johnson's comments, but does that mean you should hate the whole club as a result?
No, and there is no relevance to what was said to my son as we walked out the club shop by a few pathetic blokes and some poster whom called me a "scab" and compared to going to the games as miners crossing the picket line in the 80's.
You are milking this a bit - I'm sure you can cope with people disagreeing with you and not always being 100% polite. This is Charlton ffs which is positively genteel compared to most clubs.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
I am happy to chat to anyone, do you not condone a group of guys making remarks a child then ? No one is milking anything i was asked a question in which why i disagree with CARD. Don't try and justify the actions.
I only have your anecdotal evidence which as I wasn't there I can't really comment on. If people make comments to a child that's daft - I have no idea who these individuals are.
You strike me as against the protests and seem to be clutching at straws trying to depict CARD/protesters in a bad light. We're not West Ham and don't have a history of fighting between our fans.
If I was with one of my children at Charlton and someone was rude to them I would call the person out - I'm happy to have a chat with someone unless it appears they are some sort of psycho.
I've been going to football since the 70s and Charlton is not one of the places I've felt threatened at. We have a few idiots in our support but generally most are okay.
Time and a place and don't call someone out when your son is with you.
I protested early on when it felt the right thing to do and Duchatelet's "agent" Meire was there to feel the affect first-hand. I decided to renew as it was a hard habit to break - but don't spend money in the ground. I won't be protesting on Easter Monday as I think it is pointless - No Meire, No Joyes and anyone else there is only a puppet of RD - IMO it won't bother RD who will just "huh". The only form of protest that would possibly get to him would be on his own turf - where he's, apparently, more sensitive. As for S/T - I will re-assess nearer the time - but its looking like I will have to find something else to do every other Saturday.
I'll be at the Scunthorpe game and will happily join any protests if they're taking place. And the way this is panning out I don't envisage any resolution before then.
Might be missing something yet Easter Monday is the Rotherham game?
if a sale has not materialised by the end of June latest then we need to launch a large initiative in Belgium. Really mess up his business interests. It does get under his skin.
While I applaud the reintroduction of protests, with no-one being there (CEO, owner etc) who gives a crap I'm not sure of how successful they will be unless CARD has something very imaginative up their sleeves which will grab media attention here and in Belgium.
What are the odds of the new edition of VOTV going on sale that day. #donedeal
Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?
The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike. The way I see it they are pretty good reasons
It's a shame things like that have happened but it doesn't mean everyone who supports CARD would agree with it.
Well you are a better person than me, there is a line you don’t cross and members of CARD have crossed it twice, no respect for them at all
Just a thought, but is your issue not therefore with two individuals then, rather than CARD?
I presume you didn't appreciate Roger Johnson's comments, but does that mean you should hate the whole club as a result?
No, and there is no relevance to what was said to my son as we walked out the club shop by a few pathetic blokes and some poster whom called me a "scab" and compared to going to the games as miners crossing the picket line in the 80's.
You are milking this a bit - I'm sure you can cope with people disagreeing with you and not always being 100% polite. This is Charlton ffs which is positively genteel compared to most clubs.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
I am happy to chat to anyone, do you not condone a group of guys making remarks a child then ? No one is milking anything i was asked a question in which why i disagree with CARD. Don't try and justify the actions.
I only have your anecdotal evidence which as I wasn't there I can't really comment on. If people make comments to a child that's daft - I have no idea who these individuals are.
You strike me as against the protests and seem to be clutching at straws trying to depict CARD/protesters in a bad light. We're not West Ham and don't have a history of fighting between our fans.
If I was with one of my children at Charlton and someone was rude to them I would call the person out - I'm happy to have a chat with someone unless it appears they are some sort of psycho.
I've been going to football since the 70s and Charlton is not one of the places I've felt threatened at. We have a few idiots in our support but generally most are okay.
Time and a place and don't call someone out when your son is with you.
When I say call someone out I mean engage them in debate - I don't suggest getting aggressive. My kids are used to me saying stuff to people in a polite way - I won't do this to be fair if the other person is likely to get aggressive(I can usually judge this).
The protests have been put on ice this season and nothing has got better - if anything it has got worse. You can take two viewpoints, that it is pointless protesting as Duchatelet owns the the club and can do what he wants with it or you can take the view you have to try to do something. I think there are going to be times when things get heated but my honest observation is, the harshest comments that I have seen have been from the non protesting camp. And I think it is fair to say that these views represent a minority.
Having said that, they are entitled to hold them and that's that. I think the respect comes in where both sides have to accept people are taking their positions based on what they think is right. The rudeness and accusations come more from the minority than the majority and they have to accept that whilst they might not agree with it, people that are protesting to varying degrees are doing so, not because they are worse fans, but because they love the club. They may be wrong but they are fighting for the clubs very future in their eyes. That is how I feel. Every day we let this idiot get away with this criminal destruction is a day nearer to the point where we can't get it back. Disagree with it but don't get personal or make ridiculous accusations. When all this is over, all sides will have to unite for what is best for Charlton. When you look at those least likely to do that, well I think it is telling.
Other forum ? Don’t go on any forum assumption is the mother of all f**k ups and once again it has proven that when people don’t agree with others comments are made that are untrue. #donedeal
That doesn’t make any sense.
Neither does someone stating you go on another forum and become a hero, further more and even more embarrassingly is when the poster retracts the post. Pretty much somes up the individual.
Comments
I've not had a ST for a while now, but if my mates were going, or if my kid was begging me I couldn't say for sure I wouldn't cave. If I was there i'd certainly join a protest - even though i'm unsure of the effect it would have.
If you disagree with the protests fair enough but the 'victim' thing is a bit much. I'm sure you are big enough to have a chat with someone you disagree with. I wasn't aware CARD had a group of thugs intimidating everyone.
So, IMO, they are not valid reasons for losing respect for the entire CARD initiative which is a coalition of a number of groups actively seeking change of ownership and whose numbers will be in the thousands.
Instead, you are making it all about you and your contact with two individuals whilst not addressing the wider issue of whether you agree or not that that the CARD protests are a valid or effective way of engineering change and/or providing opportunities for fans to voice their deep concerns at the way the club has and is being run and to bring this to the attention of the wider footballing community and indeed those who run the game.
I guess you're referring to the phrase "...unless there is firm news of new Charlton Athletic owners before April." Firm news means a specific announcement of the sale, not another vague update from Murray or any kind of placatory comments from Duchatelet. No firm announcement and the protests go ahead.
Coming from the guy who PM'd me and threatened to beat me up if ever he found out who I am and warned me away from attending Charlton games if I didn't want to get into trouble with the wrong people. All because I questioned your reasons for disagreeing with the protests.
I still go to Charlton regularly. Haven't had any issues yet!
Interesting.
Don't worry though we all know you're all talk.
You were asked this question (page 4 of the thread):
"Did you become obsessed with Rick before CARD existed or because of CARD?"
You replied:
"The day I lost respect for CARD when one of them made a remark about my 11year old wearing the new shirt and one of the CARD brigade calling me a scab on here, comparing me to a miner in the strike."
That's one guy, not a group. One single individual among thousands, lending his support to a very loose coalition of people with the same aim. One guy. Acting on his own.
For the record, I condemn his actions unreservedly - a very silly and intimidatory thing to do. I am not justifying them.
Which member of the CARD brigade called you a scab?
EDIT: AFKA's subsequent post explains the scab comment. So Rick has never actually upset you personally in any way, the person who mentioned scab is just anti-regime, not involved in the hierarchy of CARD at all, and one person said a stupid thing to your lad. Forgive me for thinking that that is a wafer thin basis on which to condemn the thoughts and actions of thousands of individuals.
Let’s be clear it is in everyone’s rights to have a different view, and if that view is on agreeing OR disagreeing with protests then that’s entirely their choice. And that is fundamentally the purpose of this forum for people to be able to air that view and have a debate on it. Where it goes wrong is when it starts getting personal, niche and away from the topic.
@WhenIwasLittleBoy you’ve made clear from day one that you don’t agree with the protests. Fair enough, you're entitled to that view and I don’t think there is any value in attempting to change your mind now as I think your feelings are deep-rooted and formed from a dislike of some individuals you know / think are involved in CARD and their politics.
In terms of the 'scab' stuff however, I think it’s important to add context and to make clear this was a generalisation and not a personal comment that directed at you or a response to any other contributor.
A poster in March 16 wrote on a thread about renewing season tickets early ‘Anyone that renews before July is a scab in my eyes. No need for it at all.’ They also added after it was posted that 435 people had renewed ‘435 scabs’. That poster had long before that point stopped going, seems from what I can see on Facebook to have completely disengaged with Charlton, has never been part of the CARD organising group and as far as I’m aware never supported in person any protest. This is all searchable under ‘scab’.
The point I’m trying to make is I don't think its fair attaching a throwaway generalised comment with CARD from someone who has never been involved with CARD or participated in any of their protests.
As for the wider stuff on protesting, what value there is in re-starting them etc. I scratch my head on it as I genuinely don’t know what the right answer is. I’ve no idea what protests CARD have planned so no thoughts on whether the they will be worthwhile, achieving of goals etc
What I do think though is that this is the most important and concerning time in the whole aspect of Duchatelet’s reign, and all I ask is people (even if they don’t like some protest leaders) just pretend that no protest stuff has ever existed and to look at the situation with a fresh pair of eyes.
In my opinion RD is no longer financially supporting ‘Meire’s project’ and on the basis that he never had any real interest in us at all in a football sense, he will almost certainly wash his hands of that now.
This club HAS to change hands in the next few months imo otherwise I’m convinced we will need a miracle to avoid a relegation battle next season.
He will get his money out one way or another because he is borne of stubbornness and arrogance and I genuinely fear for the future of the club in how he might get his return / loss-offset. If he is still here then this will not be a squad momentum point (that opportunity was there in Jan and it wasn’t taken), but a mass exercise in cost reduction / value sales. I fear we will be stuck in a cycle where RD’s valuation to sell will always be unrealistic and the club just continues to decline. No players are going to want to sign for us unless they have no other option, and those here unless they are on good contracts will definitely be looking to escape.
Whether you support protests or not, there cannot be a single person left who still believes that RD’s continued ownership is what is best for Charlton.
I’ll probably support whatever the protests are as I’m more weighted to the view that ‘do nothing’ is not the right answer as it will simply prolong the steady decline and shrinking of the club to the point it will become too much of an uphill battle to then reverse as apathy sets in further. So CARD, ROT and whoever else trying to do stuff home and abroad to bring forward a sale have my support and from what I suspect is also the majority view of fans.
If others don’t agree with that, I’d be genuinely interested to hear why and happy to debate the pros and cons. But grateful if everyone could make an effort going forward to keep the personal stuff out of the debate please. cheers
If Roland doesn't sell up by August, is everyone who is protesting going to boycott next season. If not, what is the point they are making? Convenient response, as people involved with CARD pay to see matches, some even ST holders. Still!
Yet are happy to summon people to The Valley, often (in the past) urging people to BUY seats in the most expensive area of the ground to 'protest'.
I don't get it myself. None of this will hurt Duchâtelet one iota. As for the press thing, it keeps it in the public eye over here but people have known for years we are a (in Robinson's words) basket case club.
It is just encouraging people to come to The Valley.
That person could turn out to be the biggest laxative you might ever experience.
And of all the people I know that are currently involved with CARD, I believe only one of them (who takes his son) is still a ST holder
You strike me as against the protests and seem to be clutching at straws trying to depict CARD/protesters in a bad light. We're not West Ham and don't have a history of fighting between our fans.
If I was with one of my children at Charlton and someone was rude to them I would call the person out - I'm happy to have a chat with someone unless it appears they are some sort of psycho.
I've been going to football since the 70s and Charlton is not one of the places I've felt threatened at. We have a few idiots in our support but generally most are okay.
If nothing else, a resumption of the protests will bring the way the club is currently being 'managed' to a greater audience. There has been no CEO since December, there is no CFO and KR seems to be implying that reviews of player's contracts are on hold. To gain publicity that this club is just limping along under RD's ownership can only be a good thing.
While I applaud the reintroduction of protests, with no-one being there (CEO, owner etc) who gives a crap I'm not sure of how successful they will be unless CARD has something very imaginative up their sleeves which will grab media attention here and in Belgium.
Having said that, they are entitled to hold them and that's that. I think the respect comes in where both sides have to accept people are taking their positions based on what they think is right. The rudeness and accusations come more from the minority than the majority and they have to accept that whilst they might not agree with it, people that are protesting to varying degrees are doing so, not because they are worse fans, but because they love the club. They may be wrong but they are fighting for the clubs very future in their eyes. That is how I feel. Every day we let this idiot get away with this criminal destruction is a day nearer to the point where we can't get it back. Disagree with it but don't get personal or make ridiculous accusations. When all this is over, all sides will have to unite for what is best for Charlton. When you look at those least likely to do that, well I think it is telling.