I work in Rochdale. It's worse than Oldham. The poverty I see on a daily basis here is literally beyond belief - it's not 'like' the third world here, it IS the third world. There's a huge underclass of millions in this country who literally have no hope. All the while things like credit scores, lack of council housing due to sell-offs, extortionate landlords, austerity, zero hours jobs, failing schools, property developers, loan sharks (legal and otherwise), lack of affordable public transport etc etc exist, these people will NEVER work, NEVER get out of the poverty trap and NEVER contribute to the society that has abandoned them
I did some site work in Rochdale 10 or years ago. Easily in my top 5 worst places in the UK , and I've been to some shit holes (and I lived in Kidderminster!). The only employers seemed to the ICI and the hazardous waste landfill, which is where I worked. The picture you paint there could fit hundreds of town, especially in the north, but the people in power in the south east just don't give a shit about them.
Of course, no mention of where his wife his & why he has FOUR kids.
So you don't know. Maybe she died, they got divorced.
and FOUR kids. Maybe he was able to support four kids then he lost his wife/job/health?
I don't know but let's assume it's all his fault, it's what the programme makers want you do to.
Poverty Porn
Looking at that BBC clip I'd had said the opposite - the film makers want you to think its all the politicians fault. I know it was only a short film, but showing a single dad looking after 4 kids (not the norm I'd suggest) I would have expected a bit of back story if his wife had died. To not even mention her just makes me wonder.
There are numerous reasons for why things are now so bad in this Country. A big part of it is the politicians and their short term self serving policies for the benefits of them and their mates. But the attitude of many natives towards work and education, immigration, fraud (both corporate and public), our historical benefits system and people dropping out kids all over the place are to name but a few.
Anybody who works within the public sector knows that it is hanging by a thread and completely reliant on its workers going above and beyond in order to paper over the huge chasms and try and keep things going as best they can. All it would take for the whole thing to collapse is for people to "work to rule". But they know that many people who join social service jobs do so because they care and so won't do that.
However anybody who has dealings with these aspects of life also know there are huge numbers of these effected people don't have any work ethic, or an education ethic, or won't take on jobs they think are beneath them. Then complain that immigrants who are prepared to do those, are somehow nicking all their jobs. Us as the so called "working classes" also need to look at the choices we make instead of just blaming politicians, immigrants and anybody else we can think of.
If we're going to call out Palarsehater on his opinions like immigration being a factor, (which even if not the main reason, it's certainly a factor (however small) and will certainly be the perceived case to those in Rochdale etc., going about their day to day struggles).
But, if we are calling that out, lets also call out the "It's all the Tories fault", as my wife is a long-standing social worker, dealing with theses issues every single day and her and her colleagues have worked through both governments for years and the impact on the most vulnerable in our society and the scale of the problem is the same, no matter who is running the Country!!
I respectfully disagree. As would my wife, who has also been in social services during the period of austerity politics. If your wife hasn't seen the impact of these policies in her workplace she's very lucky and/or her employers have been very good at finding the resources to enable that situation from elsewhere in the authority. Tbf it's my experience that those in social services are often unaware of what's going on elsewhere because councils prioritise maintaining that area of work. Rightly perhaps.
I started work in the Thatcher years and she was certainly no friend of the public sector but what this current administration have done, with the support of the Lib Dems who I shall never forgive, is systematically pull apart our public services to the extent they are failing in many, many areas of work. There is no comparison with the Tory's record under the Blair/Brown governments - in terms of the support provided to our public services to deliver the services the population of one of the richest countries in world should have a reasonable expectation of receiving.
The Tories have stood on a platform of austerity for the last three elections. It should be no surprise to anyone that negative factors in society such as homelessness, poverty, wage stagnation, increased hospital waiting times...in fact poorer public services right across the board are the result of this.
In my view these things are not coincidental whatsover and people are trying to create a false equivalency between the two parties.
But a Local Authority can increase what money it provides to it's Social Services Directorate budget by as much as it wants.
It just has to go back to the local electorate for them to agree and Bob's your uncle.
i pointed out a few other factors which do add to the reasons of poverty in this country.
And that's the point. They may "add" to the poverty by making it worse but the poverty will still be there.
Cutting foreign aid and banning immigration won't be magic wands. The reasons behind the poverty, as Leroy listed above, are far more complex and deep rooted and so need long term solutions like more social housing, better transport, better schools, industry and jobs, better health care, price controls on essential items like gas and electric, properly managed benefits.
It will take more than the little extra money saved from foreign aid to achieve all that. It needs a long term plan and the political will to implement it but neither party has offered that while the both the mainstream and fringe parties just offer sound bites like "£350m a week for the NHS" "No magic money tree", etc etc or try to blame "them" for all the problems.
This is why I get so frustrated at the amount of aid that goes overseas 0.7% ( not saying it’s not worthy ) but get our own house in order, also the amount of benefit scroungers contributes massively to why we see this sort of thing becoming a constant, will probably get flagged for this but isn't that amount of immigration also a factor?.
Dear oh Dear.
whats up too much almond milk on your corn flakes?
As you came to price my wardrobes but were too busy to get back to me with a proper price in a reasonable time due to ‘workload’, I wonder. 1. Did I strike you as a snowflake ? and 2. Maybe less time on here and more attending to work issues would be a good move?
There is such a thing as 'Tory ideology'? In my over 60 years I am yet to suss out what that is.
Serve the interests of the privileged and wealthy to the detriment of everyone else. Con large swathes of the middle and working classes a that they're on the winning side and they'll back you until temporarily waking up and voting you out for a little bit. Repeat ad infinitum is pretty much the jist of what I've witnessed in my 20 years of voting.
This is why I get so frustrated at the amount of aid that goes overseas 0.7% ( not saying it’s not worthy ) but get our own house in order, also the amount of benefit scroungers contributes massively to why we see this sort of thing becoming a constant, will probably get flagged for this but isn't that amount of immigration also a factor?.
Tories are not trying to ideologically fuck people over who are getting foreign aid though.
If we're going to call out Palarsehater on his opinions like immigration being a factor, (which even if not the main reason, it's certainly a factor (however small) and will certainly be the perceived case to those in Rochdale etc., going about their day to day struggles).
But, if we are calling that out, lets also call out the "It's all the Tories fault", as my wife is a long-standing social worker, dealing with theses issues every single day and her and her colleagues have worked through both governments for years and the impact on the most vulnerable in our society and the scale of the problem is the same, no matter who is running the Country!!
No, that's me who's never wrong. Ask my wife. I've lost count of the number of times she's praised my acuity. "Of course," she says, "you're never wrong" at least once a day.
If we're going to call out Palarsehater on his opinions like immigration being a factor, (which even if not the main reason, it's certainly a factor (however small) and will certainly be the perceived case to those in Rochdale etc., going about their day to day struggles).
But, if we are calling that out, lets also call out the "It's all the Tories fault", as my wife is a long-standing social worker, dealing with theses issues every single day and her and her colleagues have worked through both governments for years and the impact on the most vulnerable in our society and the scale of the problem is the same, no matter who is running the Country!!
I respectfully disagree. As would my wife, who has also been in social services during the period of austerity politics. If your wife hasn't seen the impact of these policies in her workplace she's very lucky and/or her employers have been very good at finding the resources to enable that situation from elsewhere in the authority. Tbf it's my experience that those in social services are often unaware of what's going on elsewhere because councils prioritise maintaining that area of work. Rightly perhaps.
I started work in the Thatcher years and she was certainly no friend of the public sector but what this current administration have done, with the support of the Lib Dems who I shall never forgive, is systematically pull apart our public services to the extent they are failing in many, many areas of work. There is no comparison with the Tory's record and the Blair/Brown governments - in terms of the support provided to our public services to deliver the services the population of one of the richest countries in world should have a reasonable expectation of receiving.
The Tories have stood on a platform of austerity for the last three elections. It should be no surprise to anyone that negative factors in society such as homelessness, poverty, wage stagnation, increased hospital waiting times...in fact poorer public services right across the board are the result of this.
In my view these things are not coincidental whatsover and people are trying to create a false equivalency between the two parties.
Agree entirely that the public services have been pulled apart and that the service is under resourced, under funded and completely reliant on the goodwill of its staff working debilitating hours to keep it ticking over, but there has always been an extent of this in these services.
I just think the scale of those in poverty and vulnerable flows along at broadly similar levels throughout recent times and that when Labour were last in power there were similar levels of cases. Just an opinion and not based on any official facts or stats.
I just feel that ‘Tory austerity’ runs along the same lines of “immigrants fault” of relevant but exaggerated.
This is why I get so frustrated at the amount of aid that goes overseas 0.7% ( not saying it’s not worthy ) but get our own house in order, also the amount of benefit scroungers contributes massively to why we see this sort of thing becoming a constant, will probably get flagged for this but isn't that amount of immigration also a factor?.
If we're going to call out Palarsehater on his opinions like immigration being a factor, (which even if not the main reason, it's certainly a factor (however small) and will certainly be the perceived case to those in Rochdale etc., going about their day to day struggles).
But, if we are calling that out, lets also call out the "It's all the Tories fault", as my wife is a long-standing social worker, dealing with theses issues every single day and her and her colleagues have worked through both governments for years and the impact on the most vulnerable in our society and the scale of the problem is the same, no matter who is running the Country!!
I respectfully disagree. As would my wife, who has also been in social services during the period of austerity politics. If your wife hasn't seen the impact of these policies in her workplace she's very lucky and/or her employers have been very good at finding the resources to enable that situation from elsewhere in the authority. Tbf it's my experience that those in social services are often unaware of what's going on elsewhere because councils prioritise maintaining that area of work. Rightly perhaps.
I started work in the Thatcher years and she was certainly no friend of the public sector but what this current administration have done, with the support of the Lib Dems who I shall never forgive, is systematically pull apart our public services to the extent they are failing in many, many areas of work. There is no comparison with the Tory's record and the Blair/Brown governments - in terms of the support provided to our public services to deliver the services the population of one of the richest countries in world should have a reasonable expectation of receiving.
The Tories have stood on a platform of austerity for the last three elections. It should be no surprise to anyone that negative factors in society such as homelessness, poverty, wage stagnation, increased hospital waiting times...in fact poorer public services right across the board are the result of this.
In my view these things are not coincidental whatsover and people are trying to create a false equivalency between the two parties.
Agree entirely that the public services have been pulled apart and that the service is under resourced, under funded and completely reliant on the goodwill of its staff working debilitating hours to keep it ticking over, but there has always been an extent of this in these services.
I just think the scale of those in poverty and vulnerable flows along at broadly similar levels throughout recent times and that when Labour were last in power there were similar levels of cases. Just an opinion and not based on any official facts or stats.
I just feel that ‘Tory austerity’ runs along the same lines of “immigrants fault” of relevant but exaggerated.
We'll have to agree to disagree then because the numbers of children and pensioners in poverty are rising.
A while back I spoke at length to a schoolteacher from a school in New Addington. I won’t post the details on here, but believe me, the details would shock anybody. From poverty to day to day abuse. The teachers are helpless and can do nothing. Sad world we live in.
Yep this rings true - disagree can do nothing. Trauma informed approaches to ACE's. Significant adult role model and mentoring. Need to be bothered though, not terrified by targets nor one of the I'm a teacher not social worker brigade.
If we're going to call out Palarsehater on his opinions like immigration being a factor, (which even if not the main reason, it's certainly a factor (however small) and will certainly be the perceived case to those in Rochdale etc., going about their day to day struggles).
But, if we are calling that out, lets also call out the "It's all the Tories fault", as my wife is a long-standing social worker, dealing with theses issues every single day and her and her colleagues have worked through both governments for years and the impact on the most vulnerable in our society and the scale of the problem is the same, no matter who is running the Country!!
I respectfully disagree. As would my wife, who has also been in social services during the period of austerity politics. If your wife hasn't seen the impact of these policies in her workplace she's very lucky and/or her employers have been very good at finding the resources to enable that situation from elsewhere in the authority. Tbf it's my experience that those in social services are often unaware of what's going on elsewhere because councils prioritise maintaining that area of work. Rightly perhaps.
I started work in the Thatcher years and she was certainly no friend of the public sector but what this current administration have done, with the support of the Lib Dems who I shall never forgive, is systematically pull apart our public services to the extent they are failing in many, many areas of work. There is no comparison with the Tory's record and the Blair/Brown governments - in terms of the support provided to our public services to deliver the services the population of one of the richest countries in world should have a reasonable expectation of receiving.
The Tories have stood on a platform of austerity for the last three elections. It should be no surprise to anyone that negative factors in society such as homelessness, poverty, wage stagnation, increased hospital waiting times...in fact poorer public services right across the board are the result of this.
In my view these things are not coincidental whatsover and people are trying to create a false equivalency between the two parties.
Agree entirely that the public services have been pulled apart and that the service is under resourced, under funded and completely reliant on the goodwill of its staff working debilitating hours to keep it ticking over, but there has always been an extent of this in these services.
I just think the scale of those in poverty and vulnerable flows along at broadly similar levels throughout recent times and that when Labour were last in power there were similar levels of cases. Just an opinion and not based on any official facts or stats.
I just feel that ‘Tory austerity’ runs along the same lines of “immigrants fault” of relevant but exaggerated.
Watching the news or reading about austerity, where it's spoken of in percentages is meaningless to most people. It's just numbers, percentages, people have heard it all before - they get dumbed down by it.
Many people won't understand unless it impacts them personally.
A while back I spoke at length to a schoolteacher from a school in New Addington. I won’t post the details on here, but believe me, the details would shock anybody. From poverty to day to day abuse. The teachers are helpless and can do nothing. Sad world we live in.
Yep this rings true - disagree can do nothing. Trauma informed approaches to ACE's. Significant adult role model and mentoring. Need to be bothered though, not terrified by targets nor one of the I'm a teacher not social worker brigade.
"Brigade"?
Have you got any idea how the sort of hours teachers work?
ACE and trauma informed approaches are not magic bullets that solve problems - these are simply frameworks - if the resources aren't there you can dress it up with retraining and new ways of defining the same stuff as much as you like but trying to get more and more out of frontline resources isn't working any more, there is no more capacity in the system.
i know its really easy to just blame the government, but for example the other week there was program on overweight and on benefits, there was a women who weighed something like 39 stone, her her husband and son sat around the house all day eating and drinking shit all paid for by benefits can someone explain how that's theresa may or how that is any part of tory ideololgy?, i pointed out a few other factors which do add to the reasons of poverty in this country.
That example is nothing to do with foreign aid or immigration either.
It is to do with cheating the system and generally being a lazy slob
How is this abuse? I’m overweight but still go to work every day, the family in question clearly said it’s easier to sit on benefits instead of working!!
i know its really easy to just blame the government, but for example the other week there was program on overweight and on benefits, there was a women who weighed something like 39 stone, her her husband and son sat around the house all day eating and drinking shit all paid for by benefits can someone explain how that's theresa may or how that is any part of tory ideololgy?, i pointed out a few other factors which do add to the reasons of poverty in this country.
Channel 5 possibly ? Owned by the same idiot who owns the Express
Benefit fraud accounts for a very small percentage of benefit spend . It’s suits the government to pretend otherwise. Far money is saved by people not claiming what they are entitled to than is lost through benefit fraud..... it could be best summarised as this
A Tory , and two poor fellas are sitting at a table with 5 biscuits on a plate. The Tory takes 4 biscuits and turns to one of the poor fellas and says...... that bloke just nicked your biscuit
Yes the same channel 5 that have a program on Tuesday night about victims of the Grenfell tower disaster.
A while back I spoke at length to a schoolteacher from a school in New Addington. I won’t post the details on here, but believe me, the details would shock anybody. From poverty to day to day abuse. The teachers are helpless and can do nothing. Sad world we live in.
Yep this rings true - disagree can do nothing. Trauma informed approaches to ACE's. Significant adult role model and mentoring. Need to be bothered though, not terrified by targets nor one of the I'm a teacher not social worker brigade.
"Brigade"?
Have you got any idea how the sort of hours teachers work?
ACE and trauma informed approaches are not magic bullets that solve problems - these are simply frameworks - if the resources aren't there you can dress it up with retraining and new ways of defining the same stuff as much as you like but trying to get more and more out of frontline resources isn't working any more, there is no more capacity in the system.
Yeah I am one, so don't tell me that all are on board. Some even read the Daily Fail. Who said they were magic bullets? They do however make a difference. As for getting more and a lack of capacity. Yep agree, still disagree that is an excuse to do nothing. You were quick to jump to the defence of some that should not be defended. If all were as you assume then many young people would be successful but the lack of TI approaches is leading to increasing exclusions under the new framework. Although I'm lucky to have been able to persuade MAT to create internal AP centre many will not have even thought about it. The more I read your response the more irritated I get fortunately I'll be able to use it as an example of the mentality I and colleagues need to battle.
A while back I spoke at length to a schoolteacher from a school in New Addington. I won’t post the details on here, but believe me, the details would shock anybody. From poverty to day to day abuse. The teachers are helpless and can do nothing. Sad world we live in.
Yep this rings true - disagree can do nothing. Trauma informed approaches to ACE's. Significant adult role model and mentoring. Need to be bothered though, not terrified by targets nor one of the I'm a teacher not social worker brigade.
"Brigade"?
Have you got any idea how the sort of hours teachers work?
ACE and trauma informed approaches are not magic bullets that solve problems - these are simply frameworks - if the resources aren't there you can dress it up with retraining and new ways of defining the same stuff as much as you like but trying to get more and more out of frontline resources isn't working any more, there is no more capacity in the system.
Yeah I am one, so don't tell me that all are on board.
I didn't tell you that all are on board, I questioned your assertion that people who expressed concern that they weren't the right people to do this work in addition to the other work they do were a "brigade" - a phrase that is just a cheap way of dismissing any concernsSome even read the Daily Fail. Who said they were magic bullets? They do however make a difference. As for getting more and a lack of capacity. Yep agree, still disagree that is an excuse to do nothing. I didn't say it was an excuse to do nothing, but who does what? Still in your enthusiasm it is easy to dismiss anyone else's views out of hand You were quick to jump to the defence of some that should not be defended. I wasn't "quick". I am sick of seeing frontline staff of all descriptions being given a kicking every time society is looking for someone to blame If all were as you assume then many young people would be successful but the lack of TI approaches is leading to increasing exclusions under the new framework. Although I'm lucky to have been able to persuade MAT to create internal AP centre many will not have even thought about it. The more I read your response the more irritated I get fortunately I'll be able to use it as an example of the mentality I and colleagues need to battle.
Good. Maybe you should ask yourself why there is some resistance to your approach to implementing frameworks such as this. They have great value, but simply condemning anyone with reservations suggests to me you are quite easily irritated. Throughout my career I have tried to defend my staff from proselytizers who are willing to throw their colleagues under the bus.
i pointed out a few other factors which do add to the reasons of poverty in this country.
And that's the point. They may "add" to the poverty by making it worse but the poverty will still be there.
Cutting foreign aid and banning immigration won't be magic wands. The reasons behind the poverty, as Leroy listed above, are far more complex and deep rooted and so need long term solutions like more social housing, better transport, better schools, industry and jobs, better health care, price controls on essential items like gas and electric, properly managed benefits.
It will take more than the little extra money saved from foreign aid to achieve all that. It needs a long term plan and the political will to implement it but neither party has offered that while the both the mainstream and fringe parties just offer sound bites like "£350m a week for the NHS" "No magic money tree", etc etc or try to blame "them" for all the problems.
This is why I get so frustrated at the amount of aid that goes overseas 0.7% ( not saying it’s not worthy ) but get our own house in order, also the amount of benefit scroungers contributes massively to why we see this sort of thing becoming a constant, will probably get flagged for this but isn't that amount of immigration also a factor?.
Dear oh Dear.
whats up too much almond milk on your corn flakes?
As you came to price my wardrobes but were too busy to get back to me with a proper price in a reasonable time due to ‘workload’, I wonder. 1. Did I strike you as a snowflake ? and 2. Maybe less time on here and more attending to work issues would be a good move?
Wardrobes? never met you before in my life.
You wanna bet.
getting a bit weird now
am not a carpenter so have no idea who you are
edit; do remember you asked for some recommendations on where to get fitted wardrobes, i asked where are you based, you replied keston.
and that was the end of the conversation if you can call it that.
hardly the fly by night tradesman as you was portraying earlier and that i should attend to work issues?.
if you could clear that up that would be great.
I'm intrigued!! Were a lion and a witch involved at all?
Don't need a star mate. Just hope it comes in useful in the future. Let us know how it goes.
Primary/ Secondary? If you’re genuinely interested then no prob sending links to research and project. 5 terms in and snowballing. We are culture change rather than REACH approach. Helen Lowey rather than Warren Larkin though to me both are necessary but public sector setting determines which approach. In my view REACH fine NHS, culture change suits schools though both trialled in our LA. REACH at primary/ EMBRACE us at secondary. I’m BwD but Academy in small MAT.. You?
Comments
Anybody who works within the public sector knows that it is hanging by a thread and completely reliant on its workers going above and beyond in order to paper over the huge chasms and try and keep things going as best they can. All it would take for the whole thing to collapse is for people to "work to rule". But they know that many people who join social service jobs do so because they care and so won't do that.
However anybody who has dealings with these aspects of life also know there are huge numbers of these effected people don't have any work ethic, or an education ethic, or won't take on jobs they think are beneath them. Then complain that immigrants who are prepared to do those, are somehow nicking all their jobs. Us as the so called "working classes" also need to look at the choices we make instead of just blaming politicians, immigrants and anybody else we can think of.
It just has to go back to the local electorate for them to agree and Bob's your uncle.
I just think the scale of those in poverty and vulnerable flows along at broadly similar levels throughout recent times and that when Labour were last in power there were similar levels of cases. Just an opinion and not based on any official facts or stats.
I just feel that ‘Tory austerity’ runs along the same lines of “immigrants fault” of relevant but exaggerated.
It's just numbers, percentages, people have heard it all before - they get dumbed down by it.
Many people won't understand unless it impacts them personally.
Have you got any idea how the sort of hours teachers work?
ACE and trauma informed approaches are not magic bullets that solve problems - these are simply frameworks - if the resources aren't there you can dress it up with retraining and new ways of defining the same stuff as much as you like but trying to get more and more out of frontline resources isn't working any more, there is no more capacity in the system.
You were quick to jump to the defence of some that should not be defended. If all were as you assume then many young people would be successful but the lack of TI approaches is leading to increasing exclusions under the new framework. Although I'm lucky to have been able to persuade MAT to create internal AP centre many will not have even thought about it.
The more I read your response the more irritated I get fortunately I'll be able to use it as an example of the mentality I and colleagues need to battle.
If you’re genuinely interested then no prob sending links to research and project. 5 terms in and snowballing. We are culture change rather than REACH approach. Helen Lowey rather than Warren Larkin though to me both are necessary but public sector setting determines which approach. In my view REACH fine NHS, culture change suits schools though both trialled in our LA. REACH at primary/ EMBRACE us at secondary.
I’m BwD but Academy in small MAT.. You?