Given the woeful paucity of our batting do we need to trawl county cricket for a modern day David Steele or two if such a thing still exists?
Cook, Root and Bairstow are proven test batsmen but then we seem to be lacking.
I'm thinking the likes of Northeast and Hildreth who have scored regularly and well in county cricketfor a few seasons now are worth a shot. Can they be any worse than the existing dross?
Boycott on C5 yesterday was right, England aren't as good as they think they are. The English system, with 4 day games shoved to the outskirts of the summer, and often on green seamers isn't producing enough decent Test players
Stoneman/Jennings/Malan all have average 1st class records for a reason Cook, Broad, Anderson are all declining with age Root will never be up with Kohli, Smith and Williamson until he can score more centuries Every spinner in the country seems to have been tried since Swann retired, often far too soon
Boycott on C5 yesterday was right, England aren't as good as they think they are. The English system, with 4 day games shoved to the outskirts of the summer, and often on green seamers isn't producing enough decent Test players
Stoneman/Jennings/Malan all have average 1st class records for a reason Cook, Broad, Anderson are all declining with age Root will never be up with Kohli, Smith and Williamson until he can score more centuries Every spinner in the country seems to have been tried since Swann retired, often far too soon
Boycott? I've been saying this on here and everywhere for about 5 years!
Boycott on C5 yesterday was right, England aren't as good as they think they are. The English system, with 4 day games shoved to the outskirts of the summer, and often on green seamers isn't producing enough decent Test players
Stoneman/Jennings/Malan all have average 1st class records for a reason Cook, Broad, Anderson are all declining with age Root will never be up with Kohli, Smith and Williamson until he can score more centuries Every spinner in the country seems to have been tried since Swann retired, often far too soon
Somerset are one of the few counties that prepare spin friendly wickets hence the inclusion of Leach and Bess in the England squad. Why should others when it's easier to bowl seamers in home conditions that favour them so much?
Just look at Kent - they have three front line spinners in Treadwell, Reilly and Quayyum. Guess, even if we add into the equation part timer Denly, how many overs they've bowled between them in First Class cricket this season?
The answer is 14. Yes 14 out of 432 in total bowled - that's the equivalent of 1 in every 31 overs - and not a single wicket taken by them either.
First I've seen of Bess. Looked like a Sunday 2's bowler to me.
And therein lies the problem - Bess is 20 and the same age that Swann was when he was first brought into the Test squad. Yet Swann didn't actually debut for almost another decade.
It you're Rashid Khan (even if he might not be the 19 years old he purports to be) you get that experience that much earlier. If you play in the CC it takes you 'til you're 30 to gain that.
Bess, Virdi, Crane etc all need experience of bowling on flat, true pitches against solid batsmen trying to winkle wickets out, they need to learn their craft. Bess to me looked far too raw to be a Test spinner at this stage of his career.
Boycott on C5 yesterday was right, England aren't as good as they think they are. The English system, with 4 day games shoved to the outskirts of the summer, and often on green seamers isn't producing enough decent Test players
Stoneman/Jennings/Malan all have average 1st class records for a reason Cook, Broad, Anderson are all declining with age Root will never be up with Kohli, Smith and Williamson until he can score more centuries Every spinner in the country seems to have been tried since Swann retired, often far too soon
Somerset are one of the few counties that prepare spin friendly wickets hence the inclusion of Leach and Bess in the England squad. Why should others when it's easier to bowl seamers in home conditions that favour them so much?
Just look at Kent - they have three front line spinners in Treadwell, Reilly and Quayyum. Guess, even if we add into the equation part timer Denly, how many overs they've bowled between them in First Class cricket this season?
The answer is 14. Yes 14 out of 432 in total bowled - that's the equivalent of 1 in every 31 overs - and not a single wicket taken by them either.
Even in the 50 over competition, after their opening defeat, Kent have been going in with one spinner, Denly!
And here is the paradox in county age group cricket so far as batting is concerned.
I know of an opening batsman who top scored last year in the ECB National U14 competition. He scored a lot of runs, in the main against Minor County opposition, but, basically refuses to take any risks whatsoever including hitting the ball in the air so never gets out. As a result of that accumulation of runs he has been put forward for the Bunbury Festival. He is just about the most single minded batsman I ever seen. And some will and have interpreted that as being "selfish".
The better the bowling the less he will score. So, this year against the better first class counties he will still probably bat for the full 50 overs but is likely to score as little as 70 and quite possibly even less but will, for obvious reasons, have vastly more of the strike. Which will mean the County is unlikely to get enough on the board. For the same reason he has to open or not bat at all.
Now if this were a four day game his approach would be fine. But the County doesn't play four day games and if anything the emphasis is going to change more towards T20. So, should he be dropped?
First I've seen of Bess. Looked like a Sunday 2's bowler to me.
I thought so too. Commentators on the first day saying Roots decision to bat first will be justified as they will have to bat last on a turning wicket......poor lad couldn't spin it on a bare Calcutta pitch.
another spinner chosen coz he can bat a bit too I expect ( ala Moeen).
First I've seen of Bess. Looked like a Sunday 2's bowler to me.
And therein lies the problem - Bess is 20 and the same age that Swann was when he was first brought into the Test squad. Yet Swann didn't actually debut for almost another decade.
It you're Rashid Khan (even if he might not be the 19 years old he purports to be) you get that experience that much earlier. If you play in the CC it takes you 'til you're 30 to gain that.
The problem is why are we picking 20 year olds to fill one specialist position that should not be available? We are very rarely going to pick two spinners so if we chose an Offie, SLA or Leggie where is the lost generation? It's not new, who was our spinner before Swann? Ashley bloody Giles! It is the system that is wrong. I don't want to hark back to the old days all the time but in the 70's and 80's there were plenty of spinners of the main 2 varieaties (not leggies) and although we picked mainly Underwood, Illingworth, Gifford, Pocock, Edmonds, Emburey, Miller etc the 1st Class game was full of alternatives. I see no one these days who has the CONTROL let alone the skills to bowl in Test cricket. It's all down to the ridiculous way we set out our season these days. There is no encouragement for spinners or fast bowlers, and I mean FAST not fast medium, to play 1st Class Cricket. The County Championship played in April, May and September is a joke. Cricket needs to split. We need 1st Class Cricket - County Championship and Test Cricket totally separate from ODI/T20, like Rugby split many years ago. Of course there will be more money in the latter but then they will only be a finite number of contracts for the shorter game and real cricketers will join the real game. I know it's unlikely but it's the only way to save cricket.
First I've seen of Bess. Looked like a Sunday 2's bowler to me.
And therein lies the problem - Bess is 20 and the same age that Swann was when he was first brought into the Test squad. Yet Swann didn't actually debut for almost another decade.
It you're Rashid Khan (even if he might not be the 19 years old he purports to be) you get that experience that much earlier. If you play in the CC it takes you 'til you're 30 to gain that.
The problem is why are we picking 20 year olds to fill one specialist position that should not be available? We are very rarely going to pick two spinners so if we chose an Offie, SLA or Leggie where is the lost generation? It's not new, who was our spinner before Swann? Ashley bloody Giles! It is the system that is wrong. I don't want to hark back to the old days all the time but in the 70's and 80's there were plenty of spinners of the main 2 varieaties (not leggies) and although we picked mainly Underwood, Illingworth, Gifford, Pocock, Edmonds, Emburey, Miller etc the 1st Class game was full of alternatives. I see no one these days who has the CONTROL let alone the skills to bowl in Test cricket. It's all down to the ridiculous way we set out our season these days. There is no encouragement for spinners or fast bowlers, and I mean FAST not fast medium, to play 1st Class Cricket. The County Championship played in April, May and September is a joke. Cricket needs to split. We need 1st Class Cricket - County Championship and Test Cricket totally separate from ODI/T20, like Rugby split many years ago. Of course there will be more money in the latter but then they will only be a finite number of contracts for the shorter game and real cricketers will join the real game. I know it's unlikely but it's the only way to save cricket.
I agree with you @Riviera, we need a split. I think it’s going to happen anyway as the latest proposals, as I understand it, for 2020 are IPL, T20 Blast and The Hundred back to back more or less from April to August. That either spells the end of red ball cricket in England or a split. I hope it’s not the end of red ball cricket. The 50 over competition is a waste of a month in a short English summer. It should either be slotted in randomly through the season or played as a knock out. Serious batsmen just don’t get a chance to develop their skills batting on dodgy wickets in April then being asked to bat in 50 over/20 over/100 ball (what next?) thrashabouts.
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
Comments
Cook, Root and Bairstow are proven test batsmen but then we seem to be lacking.
I'm thinking the likes of Northeast and Hildreth who have scored regularly and well in county cricketfor a few seasons now are worth a shot. Can they be any worse than the existing dross?
espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/23623390/england-humiliation-lord-was-accident-waiting-happen
Stoneman/Jennings/Malan all have average 1st class records for a reason
Cook, Broad, Anderson are all declining with age
Root will never be up with Kohli, Smith and Williamson until he can score more centuries
Every spinner in the country seems to have been tried since Swann retired, often far too soon
Just look at Kent - they have three front line spinners in Treadwell, Reilly and Quayyum. Guess, even if we add into the equation part timer Denly, how many overs they've bowled between them in First Class cricket this season?
The answer is 14. Yes 14 out of 432 in total bowled - that's the equivalent of 1 in every 31 overs - and not a single wicket taken by them either.
Virdi might be the slightly better bowler already, but Bess can bat
It you're Rashid Khan (even if he might not be the 19 years old he purports to be) you get that experience that much earlier. If you play in the CC it takes you 'til you're 30 to gain that.
Even in the 50 over competition, after their opening defeat, Kent have been going in with one spinner, Denly!
Excellent analysis by Simon Hughes
I know of an opening batsman who top scored last year in the ECB National U14 competition. He scored a lot of runs, in the main against Minor County opposition, but, basically refuses to take any risks whatsoever including hitting the ball in the air so never gets out. As a result of that accumulation of runs he has been put forward for the Bunbury Festival. He is just about the most single minded batsman I ever seen. And some will and have interpreted that as being "selfish".
The better the bowling the less he will score. So, this year against the better first class counties he will still probably bat for the full 50 overs but is likely to score as little as 70 and quite possibly even less but will, for obvious reasons, have vastly more of the strike. Which will mean the County is unlikely to get enough on the board. For the same reason he has to open or not bat at all.
Now if this were a four day game his approach would be fine. But the County doesn't play four day games and if anything the emphasis is going to change more towards T20. So, should he be dropped?
another spinner chosen coz he can bat a bit too I expect ( ala Moeen).
It's all down to the ridiculous way we set out our season these days. There is no encouragement for spinners or fast bowlers, and I mean FAST not fast medium, to play 1st Class Cricket. The County Championship played in April, May and September is a joke.
Cricket needs to split. We need 1st Class Cricket - County Championship and Test Cricket totally separate from ODI/T20, like Rugby split many years ago. Of course there will be more money in the latter but then they will only be a finite number of contracts for the shorter game and real cricketers will join the real game. I know it's unlikely but it's the only way to save cricket.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.