There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
Been calling for him to be the England coach/manager for years. On here and anywhere where people will listen.
He called English cricketers soft. I like Michael Vaughan comments on C5 talking about how poorly England are coached. I have been banging on about this for a while. We are going backwards at a fast rate under Bayliss and Farbrace. It is time that the ECB grasped the nettle and sent these two packing.
Boycott on C5 yesterday was right, England aren't as good as they think they are. The English system, with 4 day games shoved to the outskirts of the summer, and often on green seamers isn't producing enough decent Test players
Stoneman/Jennings/Malan all have average 1st class records for a reason Cook, Broad, Anderson are all declining with age Root will never be up with Kohli, Smith and Williamson until he can score more centuries Every spinner in the country seems to have been tried since Swann retired, often far too soon
Somerset are one of the few counties that prepare spin friendly wickets hence the inclusion of Leach and Bess in the England squad. Why should others when it's easier to bowl seamers in home conditions that favour them so much?
Just look at Kent - they have three front line spinners in Treadwell, Reilly and Quayyum. Guess, even if we add into the equation part timer Denly, how many overs they've bowled between them in First Class cricket this season?
The answer is 14. Yes 14 out of 432 in total bowled - that's the equivalent of 1 in every 31 overs - and not a single wicket taken by them either.
Just looked at Bess and Leach's record this season and they have bowled exactly 100 more overs than the four Kent spinners in the CC. But their combined figures of 114-32-281-4 only serves to re-affirm the fact that spinners are not going to take wickets at this time of year.
England keep picking young spinners, then discarding them. I don't get the logic of dumping Moeen if you're just going to keep trying these young spinners who haven't learned their craft yet,
It's worrying how many of these young spinners seem to have given up as well or are struggling
Ansari retired, Borthwick concentrates on his batting now, Kerrigan seem to have temporarily stopped playing, Rashid now only plays white ball cricket, Riley after his action issues has barely played in the last 2 seasons etc
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
When he was appointed Bayliss brief was to make England a successful Limited overs team .To a degree he is succeeding.In fact he is succeeding in making us a limited overs side in Test cricket .
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
Truth is our summer is built around accommodating/indulging the IPL now and the players that play in it and i fear it will only get worse
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
Truth is our summer is built around accommodating/indulging the IPL now and the players that play in it and i fear it will only get worse
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
Truth is our summer is built around accommodating/indulging the IPL now and the players that play in it and i fear it will only get worse
It has almost split now, apart from Cook, Jimmy and Broad the current test team seem to not play any first class cricket at all. Stokes, Butler, JB, Wood and Woakes seem to only play white ball cricket when not playing tests.
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
Truth is our summer is built around accommodating/indulging the IPL now and the players that play in it and i fear it will only get worse
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
Truth is our summer is built around accommodating/indulging the IPL now and the players that play in it and i fear it will only get worse
Which is why the game needs to split.
I can't see how the game splitting would work
Well white ball cricketers would play just 20/20 and 50 over games and red ball players would just play county cricket 4 day games all summer, starting in May and the best ones would play Tests for England.
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
I know players hated the mix up of formats, but as a spectator it was great knowing that every Sunday there would be a 40 over JPL match on BBC2 (mixed in with the F1) and that if I fancied attending a game, Kent would be at home every other Sunday, starting at the same time every match (1:30?). I even went to the occasional Middlesex game at Lords, I remember sitting in the old Grandstand once.
Nowadays the fixture list is all over the place, with chunks of red ball, then chunks of white ball.
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
I agree. When 20/20 was introduced is was a bit of a joke novelty, but it took off because like an evening football match, you can go after work. Also the type of cricket may not be for the purists but is more swashbuckling and some would say exciting.
Cricket is a spectator sport and it has recently discovered that it is a very good one, whereas it was never that bothered before. The problem is that can be heartbreaking for the hardcore cricket fans. 20/20 is not the Cricket they love.But it is the cricket that puts bums on seats domestically and it will get bigger whilst test matches will get more marginal.
The purists would have seen the beauty in Boycott toiling all day for a century, but most people prefer to see Gayle do it in less than an hour!
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
I agree. When 20/20 was introduced is was a bit of a joke novelty, but it took off because like an evening football match, you can go after work. Also the type of cricket may not be for the purists but is more swashbuckling and some would say exciting.
Cricket is a spectator sport and it has recently discovered that it is a very good one, whereas it was never that bothered before. The problem is that can be heartbreaking for the hardcore cricket fans. 20/20 is not the Cricket they love.But it is the cricket that puts bums on seats domestically and it will get bigger whilst test matches will get more marginal.
The purists would have seen the beauty in Boycott toiling all day for a century, but most people prefer to see Gayle do it in less than an hour!
I get your point but I'm not sure I agree. I wouldn't call myself a traditionalist or a purist, I love all formats of the game - I do not think T20 is the issue, there is a place for all formats of the game and each serve a very good purpose (except this hundred bollocks).
Yes changes and tweaks to this system are needed and a few things need a bit of a revamp but I don't think our game is broken.
I believe that the problem isn't a systematic problem with the game but is with the administrators. There is a growing view that the game is permanently broken and needs saving. Whether or not you thibk this is true it has clearly had an impact on the administrators who have been led into thinking we need massive changes. As a result they are making radical changes for changes sake instead of making measured well thought out tactical changes in the right areas.
On top of this they have sold the game up the creek to sky particularly the county game. Sky have the rights to championship crixket in this country but have shown no more than 1 game a season in the past 6 and even then not complete coverage of the game. Why not let the BBC create a sports channel and show it? Or let them show it on their website? Or any other free to air broadcaster. Last year was a breakthrough to allow counties to stream their own games but sky dictated that the coverage could only be 2 fixed cameras - one at either end of the ground.
Get the game out there, increase its coverage, give championship cricket to a free to air broadcaster for free. Get some interest in the longer format at county level and see where it goes.
I've made my views clear on the T20 stiff before so I won't repeat it. I agree the format needed change but they have gone about it entirely the wrong way.
But there isn't. T20 is demanding more space. And ultimately, it will get it because it is what puts bums on seats and makes money! It isn't that Cricket is or was broken, it is that a new opportunity has opened for it and it involves a lot more money. A monster was let out of the box and for better or worse it can't be put back in.
There is a genuine issue with the game in that the longer format is dying. Four day games are watched by one man and his dog. The shorter format is accessable and the shorter format game has become more glitzy. There is nothing better than an enthralling test match, but these are not common enough. The game will follow the money and you can't blame it for that.
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
But then the 4 day matches never attracted big crowds
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year. 3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday 40 over Sunday 55/60 over cup Wednesday?
And the England stars played in the Wednesday Gillette/B&H games. Sunday league couldn't work while we have two Divs. I know it's being nostalgic but it worked and everyone knew where they were with the fixture list. Bank Holiday yesterday and there was NO cricket for anyone to go and watch. Madness.
Truth is our summer is built around accommodating/indulging the IPL now and the players that play in it and i fear it will only get worse
Which is why the game needs to split.
I can't see how the game splitting would work
Well white ball cricketers would play just 20/20 and 50 over games and red ball players would just play county cricket 4 day games all summer, starting in May and the best ones would play Tests for England.
Where do you put the likes of Root in there though? As with most of the world, money is ruling everything.
I get the frustration at this, but all that would do is make the best players in the world play limited overs cricket and the test arena would be average at best. I don't think it would make England any better and it wouldn't put bums on seats
I think the contributing factor to England's demise is the bowlers inability to build pressure for long periods of time. A couple of maidens seems to do the "trick" then we revert back to short/middle length bowling. Part of this is down to having inexperienced spinners who regularly bowl a "4" ball which inadvertently releases any pressure built. The difference between us and any other of the top sides is this clear lack of consistency when it comes to bowling. It's proven that scoreboard pressure can wreak havoc which explains why our top order batsman expect Cook can't deal with it. Swann was able to tie down a end which made the job easier for the pace bowlers.
When the team I played in won the national T20 cup a couple of years ago, we always drilled on about scoreboard pressure. Albeit a completely different format to Test Match but the principle is still the same. There's not many players willing to dig deep when 50 balls have gone past without a run.
Squads for the Scotland and Aussie matches announced. No great surprises, but Billings being called up for the Scotland match means he will miss yet another 4 day match for Kent
Disagree. Broad and Anderson don't go for that many. We lack a world class spinner, sure, but if there's one thing our bowling needs it isn't to be more boring but quite the opposite.
Our impatient and substandard batting is the main problem
But there isn't. T20 is demanding more space. And ultimately, it will get it because it is what puts bums on seats and makes money! It isn't that Cricket is or was broken, it is that a new opportunity has opened for it and it involves a lot more money. A monster was let out of the box and for better or worse it can't be put back in.
Disagree there is definitely room for all 3 formats even with t20 taking centre stage. Infact the new franchise cricket whether the hundred or not will have significantly less games than the blast will.
But there isn't. T20 is demanding more space. And ultimately, it will get it because it is what puts bums on seats and makes money! It isn't that Cricket is or was broken, it is that a new opportunity has opened for it and it involves a lot more money. A monster was let out of the box and for better or worse it can't be put back in.
Disagree there is definitely room for all 3 formats even with t20 taking centre stage. Infact the new franchise cricket whether the hundred or not will have significantly less games than the blast will.
The 100 ball game is in addition to the Blast, so adding to to the short form at the expense of the longer form
Disagree. Broad and Anderson don't go for that many. We lack a world class spinner, sure, but if there's one thing our bowling needs it isn't to be more boring but quite the opposite.
Our impatient and substandard batting is the main problem
This. We are good at keeping it tight. The issue is we don't have the bowlers who can bowl those wicket taking balls. And when we do we don't back them.
Look at Australia in the ashes. The number of times staff went for 10+ an over was huge. There were plenty of times he went for 15 or 16. If that was England there would be calls to get him off and drop him and he would be criticised for relieving all the pressure. But the Aussies don't care. They are happy for him to get hit as they know that sooner or later he will bowl an unplayable ball.
We have no one like that they get it trained out of them at a young age in county cricket.
I keep saying it. The main reason for Englands demise is not due to playing different formats or players playing one or another or adminitrators cocking it up - it is solely due to successive Governments selling off school green areas, and also Cricket not being deemed as a priority sport in schools any longer. Therefore there is now a tiny 'grass-roots playing the sport at junior level. Cricket simply isn't played at the vast majority of state schools any longer - I would suggest that 95 per cent of children nowadays aged 16 have never played cricket. Contrast this with the experience my son has in his state school in Cape Town, where they run 3 teams in his year when there are a total of approx. 50/60 boys in his year. This is sorta borne out by the huge number of imports from SA that play in County cricket nowadays. I walked through the Leics team the other day, and they had 4/5 players playing who were elgible to play for England.
Putting any cricket on terrestrial tv now will have a negligible effect on the number of kids playing the sport. They simply cant take what they see into any meaningful games themselves. Its in schools where its needed.
Comments
Yes, it is the same for both countries, but England can quite easily beat Pakistan in the next match.
It's worrying how many of these young spinners seem to have given up as well or are struggling
Ansari retired, Borthwick concentrates on his batting now, Kerrigan seem to have temporarily stopped playing, Rashid now only plays white ball cricket, Riley after his action issues has barely played in the last 2 seasons etc
I remember the format when I was young, which was madness for the players, in terms of workload and travelling, but actually allowed all forms of the game to be played throughout the year.
3 day games Friday, Saturday, Monday
40 over Sunday
55/60 over cup Wednesday?
Made me wonder, should we be ensuring our players get more county games rather than limiting those on central contracts to T20 / one-days?
Nowadays the fixture list is all over the place, with chunks of red ball, then chunks of white ball.
Cricket is a spectator sport and it has recently discovered that it is a very good one, whereas it was never that bothered before. The problem is that can be heartbreaking for the hardcore cricket fans. 20/20 is not the Cricket they love.But it is the cricket that puts bums on seats domestically and it will get bigger whilst test matches will get more marginal.
The purists would have seen the beauty in Boycott toiling all day for a century, but most people prefer to see Gayle do it in less than an hour!
Yes changes and tweaks to this system are needed and a few things need a bit of a revamp but I don't think our game is broken.
I believe that the problem isn't a systematic problem with the game but is with the administrators. There is a growing view that the game is permanently broken and needs saving. Whether or not you thibk this is true it has clearly had an impact on the administrators who have been led into thinking we need massive changes. As a result they are making radical changes for changes sake instead of making measured well thought out tactical changes in the right areas.
On top of this they have sold the game up the creek to sky particularly the county game. Sky have the rights to championship crixket in this country but have shown no more than 1 game a season in the past 6 and even then not complete coverage of the game. Why not let the BBC create a sports channel and show it? Or let them show it on their website? Or any other free to air broadcaster. Last year was a breakthrough to allow counties to stream their own games but sky dictated that the coverage could only be 2 fixed cameras - one at either end of the ground.
Get the game out there, increase its coverage, give championship cricket to a free to air broadcaster for free. Get some interest in the longer format at county level and see where it goes.
I've made my views clear on the T20 stiff before so I won't repeat it. I agree the format needed change but they have gone about it entirely the wrong way.
I get the frustration at this, but all that would do is make the best players in the world play limited overs cricket and the test arena would be average at best. I don't think it would make England any better and it wouldn't put bums on seats
When the team I played in won the national T20 cup a couple of years ago, we always drilled on about scoreboard pressure. Albeit a completely different format to Test Match but the principle is still the same. There's not many players willing to dig deep when 50 balls have gone past without a run.
Squads for the Scotland and Aussie matches announced. No great surprises, but Billings being called up for the Scotland match means he will miss yet another 4 day match for Kent
Our impatient and substandard batting is the main problem
Look at Australia in the ashes. The number of times staff went for 10+ an over was huge. There were plenty of times he went for 15 or 16. If that was England there would be calls to get him off and drop him and he would be criticised for relieving all the pressure. But the Aussies don't care. They are happy for him to get hit as they know that sooner or later he will bowl an unplayable ball.
We have no one like that they get it trained out of them at a young age in county cricket.
The main reason for Englands demise is not due to playing different formats or players playing one or another or adminitrators cocking it up - it is solely due to successive Governments selling off school green areas, and also Cricket not being deemed as a priority sport in schools any longer. Therefore there is now a tiny 'grass-roots playing the sport at junior level.
Cricket simply isn't played at the vast majority of state schools any longer - I would suggest that 95 per cent of children nowadays aged 16 have never played cricket. Contrast this with the experience my son has in his state school in Cape Town, where they run 3 teams in his year when there are a total of approx. 50/60 boys in his year. This is sorta borne out by the huge number of imports from SA that play in County cricket nowadays. I walked through the Leics team the other day, and they had 4/5 players playing who were elgible to play for England.
Putting any cricket on terrestrial tv now will have a negligible effect on the number of kids playing the sport. They simply cant take what they see into any meaningful games themselves.
Its in schools where its needed.