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2018 FIFA World Cup Thread

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  • If Ryan Wilson the England youth player didn't get the hump when his parents divorced I'm sure that he would have been the missing link in Euro 96 where we had no left sided attacking player.

    He missed out on 3 or 4 world cups and the same in the Euro's.

    Ryan Giggs must be gutted that he listened to Alex Ferguson advise and concentrated on his club where he became a united and premier legend.
    He can ponder that decision because he could have been an international legend plus England could have had a top quality left sided player for 15 years who even in 2018 it is still our weak position.

    Giggs was never eligible for England. He played for England schoolboys because he went to an English school but he was born in Wales to Welsh parents, had no English grandparents etc.

    Also Giggs was a very good player but wouldn't have suddenly made us twice as good, and McManaman was good at Euro 96, predominantly on the left.

  • What ineterested me about Kane's two penalties were that they seemed to be scientific. I mean by that, it has been proven that there is a square area either side of the post and cross bar, that if you hit the ball hard enough (I can't remember what the speed was) - it is unsaveable for a keeper standing in the middle of the goal.

    I read this research some years ago and to put the ball in this area at the required speed didn't seem an impossibility for any talented player. I know Southgate has done a lot of work with the team on penalties and utilised sports scientists. I will have to see a few more pens including pens from other players, but I am wondering if he is the first manager I have seen who has reacted to this research. most don't even practice them, claiming they are a lottery! Kane's two penalties are certainly consistent with it!

    I think it's ridiculous not to practise penalties. Every player needs to know how they are going to take one. I've heard some managers say that you can't reproduce the pressure in training and while that is obviously true, that is why you need to practise. The more you practise, the better your technique will be under pressure. That's why golfers spend hours on the putting green.
    Agreed, being able to do something in your sleep because you've practised so much is protection against the nerves and pressure of the shoot out. You will never be 100% successful, but surely you can improve your chances if you do this, with each player having a set penalty in their mind, rather than have a player coming up to take one without a clue what to do.
  • edited July 2018
    Two players who had decent penalty records at different levels were Lampard and JJ. However, I always considered their penalties saveable. They scored most of them as even though they were saveable, they were hard to save. The question is, are there unsaveable penalties and can they be replicated consistently. I think there are and football hasn't caught up with that fact yet!
  • JohnBoyUK said:

    We have the worst penalty shoot out record in The World Cup of any of the last 16. In fact, we have never won one!

    Southgate has a cunning plan, Kane swaps shirts and wears a mask for each pen in the shoot out!
    Looking at the team I'm not sure I'd be that confident - Kane, Lingard, Vardy if he's on should be fine, but not sure I'd trust Sterling or Henderson to score.
  • It is a skill to put the ball in a certain area at a certain speed. It is a skill that players have to overlearn so they are completely comfortable, but it is possible to do this. International players certainly have the ability to hit an area at speed every time, even average ones surely!
  • What ineterested me about Kane's two penalties were that they seemed to be scientific. I mean by that, it has been proven that there is a square area either side of the post and cross bar, that if you hit the ball hard enough (I can't remember what the speed was) - it is unsaveable for a keeper standing in the middle of the goal.

    I read this research some years ago and to put the ball in this area at the required speed didn't seem an impossibility for any talented player. I know Southgate has done a lot of work with the team on penalties and utilised sports scientists. I will have to see a few more pens including pens from other players, but I am wondering if he is the first manager I have seen who has reacted to this research. most don't even practice them, claiming they are a lottery! Kane's two penalties are certainly consistent with it!

    Yes, excellent.

    As I have said before, as a sports scientist myself, I love these kind of things. The research further suggests that for a higher success rate on penalties there are key elements that are needed prior to shooting in the unsaveable zone, this includes having a pre-determined selection of penalty takers as this will allow for a period of mental preparation before performing the penalty kick itself.

    There are some really interesting aspects to a penalty shoot-out and with the research that is out there, it is great that Southgate has potentially been using that to our advantage.
  • It is something we need to embrace. One of my heroes was somebody I was always taught to hate, Charles Hughes. The reason why he was castigated was the long ball game. It was developed out of statistical analysis and was moderately successful for a time! I think the issue with it was the overall ability of the players that formed the data - but using statistics was ahead of its time.

    Sadly the reaction was to throw the baby out with the bath water rather than say - the principle is right, we just need better data. We now have fantastic processing power available to us and not to use that in football is a crime! We actually have by some freak of nature, a manager who understands that!
  • Iniesta has been left out of the starting line up
  • edited July 2018
    Penalties should never be a lottery.
    Penalties are a very skillful part of football .

    Glen Hoddle for all his inovation in wanting his centre backs to run with the ball to open up space, his comment at the time that penalties were a lottery was so crass and other so called experts said the same.
    Letting David Batty take a penalty when his own father said he hadn't taken one since he was 10 and he missed that in a school match showed at the time what wolly thinking leads too.
    If Pope is the best keeper at saving them in training let him spend his time studying the next opposition and focusing on penalties.
    It always hacks me off to think that I did better preparation with a Sunday youth team than England did until Southgate came along.
    If 3 subs have been made so be it but like the Dutch did it can be a masterstroke.

    Southgate knows 1% extra can be the difference between winning and losing.

    That's why Italy and Germany before this world cup have good records in going deep into a tournament with nous, not sure the England players have that at the moment but the head coach does so let's see if that can make the difference in this glorious World cup.
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  • Iniesta has been left out of the starting line up

    Wow
  • edited July 2018
    I wonder if its the fact that it's Southgate, who famously missed a penalty for England, that may be why they are taking penalties a bit more seriously? Would be nice for a positive to come out of that euro 96' miss.
  • edited July 2018

    Two players who had decent penalty records at different levels were Lampard and JJ. However, I always considered their penalties saveable. They scored most of them as even though they were saveable, they were hard to save. The question is, are there unsaveable penalties and can they be replicated consistently. I think there are and football hasn't caught up with that fact yet!

    Yoni Buyens was a bit like that. Never hit them hard and high like Kane but also gave you the impression he'd never miss. Saying that did he miss any for us?!
  • https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/06/30/russia-world-cup-hero-denis-cheryshev-denies-taking-banned-substances/

    Russia’s new World Cup hero, Denis Cheryshev, was forced to deny taking banned substances after his own father was reported as saying he was injected with “growth hormone” before the tournament.

    The Russian Sport Weekend magazine said that Dmitri Cheryshev, a manager who was himself a former international, made the potentially-damaging remarks in an interview while his son was sidelined during the build-up to Russia 2018.

    Nothing to see here...
  • A keeper would have to be standing a bit closer to that side of the goal if he is going to try and save a Kane penalty

    Two players who had decent penalty records at different levels were Lampard and JJ. However, I always considered their penalties saveable. They scored most of them as even though they were saveable, they were hard to save. The question is, are there unsaveable penalties and can they be replicated consistently. I think there are and football hasn't caught up with that fact yet!

    Yoni Buyens was a bit like that. Never hit them hard and high like Kane but also gave you the impression he'd never miss. Saying that did he miss any for us?!
    Think he had a 100% record for us.
  • https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/06/30/russia-world-cup-hero-denis-cheryshev-denies-taking-banned-substances/

    Russia’s new World Cup hero, Denis Cheryshev, was forced to deny taking banned substances after his own father was reported as saying he was injected with “growth hormone” before the tournament.

    The Russian Sport Weekend magazine said that Dmitri Cheryshev, a manager who was himself a former international, made the potentially-damaging remarks in an interview while his son was sidelined during the build-up to Russia 2018.

    Nothing to see here...

    And he's been left out today.
  • SDAddick said:

    It was kind of sad to watch that Argentine golden generation go out in such a limp, disorganized display at this World Cup. Today they were just outdone by youth, pace, and a team with a halfway decent gameplay.

    The team that won the 2007 U20 World Cup and then the 2008 Gold Medal at the Olympics had Messi, Mascherano, Banega, Aguero, Levezzi, Zabaleta, Gago, Biglia, Garay, Romero, Mercado and probably some others that I'm forgetting. Add to that the likes of Tevez, Higuain, now Dybala, etc. They've been to a World Cup final, I think two Copa America finals, and won nothing.

    Some of them didn't progress into the players they promised to be (Gago, Banega, Garay), but there was a tremendous amount of talent in that group and they never seemed to figure out how to play cohesive, coherent football at senior level together, despite doing it for a decade.

    You have to wonder if they'd have had a better Tournament had Romero been fit, we certainly wouldnt have seen the error that Caballero made against Croatia
    A good point, though Romero was gaffe prone at times as well.

    I think this was the culmination of a long period of time playing without a clear system or identity beyond "Messi." The defense and central midfield has never been as good as the attack, but it was made worse by the fact that the likes of Rojo, Otamendi, Garay Fazio, Gago, and Banega didn't really fulfill their early promise. Basically, I feel that by the time this tournament came, their chances had come and gone.

    That said, Sampaoli is a coach I hold in really high regard. It makes me wonder just how difficult that core group of players are if he can't get across even his basic tactical ideas. I know the way he likes to play is very much at odds with that aging squad, but still, it seemed like a shitshow at times.
  • Sage said:

    What ineterested me about Kane's two penalties were that they seemed to be scientific. I mean by that, it has been proven that there is a square area either side of the post and cross bar, that if you hit the ball hard enough (I can't remember what the speed was) - it is unsaveable for a keeper standing in the middle of the goal.

    I read this research some years ago and to put the ball in this area at the required speed didn't seem an impossibility for any talented player. I know Southgate has done a lot of work with the team on penalties and utilised sports scientists. I will have to see a few more pens including pens from other players, but I am wondering if he is the first manager I have seen who has reacted to this research. most don't even practice them, claiming they are a lottery! Kane's two penalties are certainly consistent with it!

    Yes, excellent.

    As I have said before, as a sports scientist myself, I love these kind of things. The research further suggests that for a higher success rate on penalties there are key elements that are needed prior to shooting in the unsaveable zone, this includes having a pre-determined selection of penalty takers as this will allow for a period of mental preparation before performing the penalty kick itself.

    There are some really interesting aspects to a penalty shoot-out and with the research that is out there, it is great that Southgate has potentially been using that to our advantage.
    Have you read "Why England Lose/Soccernomics" Sage? They have a section on this. If you haven't read it I highly, highly recommend it.
  • Chunes said:

    Mbappe moves across the pitch like Henry at his peak. And seems to be deadlier in the box. What a player he's going to be. And already is!

    The touch for his first where it's just a perfect touch into space, followed by the left footed finish, reminded me of peak Henry.
  • Disappionted not to see Iniesta one of my favourite players but Spain should have too much for the Russians.
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  • SDAddick said:

    SDAddick said:

    It was kind of sad to watch that Argentine golden generation go out in such a limp, disorganized display at this World Cup. Today they were just outdone by youth, pace, and a team with a halfway decent gameplay.

    The team that won the 2007 U20 World Cup and then the 2008 Gold Medal at the Olympics had Messi, Mascherano, Banega, Aguero, Levezzi, Zabaleta, Gago, Biglia, Garay, Romero, Mercado and probably some others that I'm forgetting. Add to that the likes of Tevez, Higuain, now Dybala, etc. They've been to a World Cup final, I think two Copa America finals, and won nothing.

    Some of them didn't progress into the players they promised to be (Gago, Banega, Garay), but there was a tremendous amount of talent in that group and they never seemed to figure out how to play cohesive, coherent football at senior level together, despite doing it for a decade.

    You have to wonder if they'd have had a better Tournament had Romero been fit, we certainly wouldnt have seen the error that Caballero made against Croatia
    A good point, though Romero was gaffe prone at times as well.

    I think this was the culmination of a long period of time playing without a clear system or identity beyond "Messi." The defense and central midfield has never been as good as the attack, but it was made worse by the fact that the likes of Rojo, Otamendi, Garay Fazio, Gago, and Banega didn't really fulfill their early promise. Basically, I feel that by the time this tournament came, their chances had come and gone.

    That said, Sampaoli is a coach I hold in really high regard. It makes me wonder just how difficult that core group of players are if he can't get across even his basic tactical ideas. I know the way he likes to play is very much at odds with that aging squad, but still, it seemed like a shitshow at times.
    To me Sampaoli lost the plot in this tournament, no set system, continually chopping and changing, rather than finding a system to make the most of his world class attackers and sticking to it
  • SDAddick said:

    Sage said:

    What ineterested me about Kane's two penalties were that they seemed to be scientific. I mean by that, it has been proven that there is a square area either side of the post and cross bar, that if you hit the ball hard enough (I can't remember what the speed was) - it is unsaveable for a keeper standing in the middle of the goal.

    I read this research some years ago and to put the ball in this area at the required speed didn't seem an impossibility for any talented player. I know Southgate has done a lot of work with the team on penalties and utilised sports scientists. I will have to see a few more pens including pens from other players, but I am wondering if he is the first manager I have seen who has reacted to this research. most don't even practice them, claiming they are a lottery! Kane's two penalties are certainly consistent with it!

    Yes, excellent.

    As I have said before, as a sports scientist myself, I love these kind of things. The research further suggests that for a higher success rate on penalties there are key elements that are needed prior to shooting in the unsaveable zone, this includes having a pre-determined selection of penalty takers as this will allow for a period of mental preparation before performing the penalty kick itself.

    There are some really interesting aspects to a penalty shoot-out and with the research that is out there, it is great that Southgate has potentially been using that to our advantage.
    Have you read "Why England Lose/Soccernomics" Sage? They have a section on this. If you haven't read it I highly, highly recommend it.
    I’ll definitely have a read, thanks @SDAddick
  • If Ryan Wilson the England youth player didn't get the hump when his parents divorced I'm sure that he would have been the missing link in Euro 96 where we had no left sided attacking player.

    He missed out on 3 or 4 world cups and the same in the Euro's.

    Ryan Giggs must be gutted that he listened to Alex Ferguson advise and concentrated on his club where he became a united and premier legend.
    He can ponder that decision because he could have been an international legend plus England could have had a top quality left sided player for 15 years who even in 2018 it is still our weak position.

    Giggs was never eligible for England. He played for England schoolboys because he went to an English school but he was born in Wales to Welsh parents, had no English grandparents etc.

    Also Giggs was a very good player but wouldn't have suddenly made us twice as good, and McManaman was good at Euro 96, predominantly on the left.
    Giggs had lived in England for 10 years by the time he was 16 so he would've qualified.
    I was thinking England would be 10% better with Giggs plus Ryan would have shown his skills on a world stage. But as RG missed most of the Welsh friendlies, international football never was a priority for him.
  • https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/06/30/russia-world-cup-hero-denis-cheryshev-denies-taking-banned-substances/

    Russia’s new World Cup hero, Denis Cheryshev, was forced to deny taking banned substances after his own father was reported as saying he was injected with “growth hormone” before the tournament.

    The Russian Sport Weekend magazine said that Dmitri Cheryshev, a manager who was himself a former international, made the potentially-damaging remarks in an interview while his son was sidelined during the build-up to Russia 2018.

    Nothing to see here...

    It's such a dad thin to inadvertently blurt out something your kids don't want you to share.
  • Sage said:

    What ineterested me about Kane's two penalties were that they seemed to be scientific. I mean by that, it has been proven that there is a square area either side of the post and cross bar, that if you hit the ball hard enough (I can't remember what the speed was) - it is unsaveable for a keeper standing in the middle of the goal.

    I read this research some years ago and to put the ball in this area at the required speed didn't seem an impossibility for any talented player. I know Southgate has done a lot of work with the team on penalties and utilised sports scientists. I will have to see a few more pens including pens from other players, but I am wondering if he is the first manager I have seen who has reacted to this research. most don't even practice them, claiming they are a lottery! Kane's two penalties are certainly consistent with it!

    Yes, excellent.

    As I have said before, as a sports scientist myself, I love these kind of things. The research further suggests that for a higher success rate on penalties there are key elements that are needed prior to shooting in the unsaveable zone, this includes having a pre-determined selection of penalty takers as this will allow for a period of mental preparation before performing the penalty kick itself.

    There are some really interesting aspects to a penalty shoot-out and with the research that is out there, it is great that Southgate has potentially been using that to our advantage.
    In penalty shoot outs the biggest thing to deal with is the pressure. All pro footballers can take unstoppable pens on the training ground, it's being able to do it when it matters that counts.
  • Looked like off the back off the Russian chaps calf to me...
  • Spain are spoilt for choice in midfield.

    No place for Iniesta but they can bring in Asensio. Thiago drops out, in comes Koke.
  • Shame on the defender.

    Tried to foul Ramos ended up scoring own goal
  • Would have been given a penalty had the defender not put it in his own net.
  • Could see this game being a real smashing, I don't think the Russians will take too kindly either.
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