There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
It won't be as quick as you think. All the early AI inventions will focus on process rather than emotional aspect of recruitment. If anything it will free up recruiters to spend more time irritating you and trying to develop business from Swisdom.
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
It won't be as quick as you think. All the early AI inventions will focus on process rather than emotional aspect of recruitment. If anything it will free up recruiters to spend more time irritating you and trying to develop business from Swisdom.
instead of paying some fucknut £8k for sending me an email id rather pay the candidate a bit more
Without sounding flippant...
Why don't you?
I'm not a recruiter FYI, just worked in the industry for 14 years trying to get consultants to change their ways (and to shift the perception of the industry)
Because agencies constantly harass individuals looking for jobs from trawling through job boards where their CVs get uploaded. They offer them the world by that point they own the person !
I did work with the company a few years ago where you could search for what you are looking for on a CV and it would look at all the job boards. You could then invited to interview at that point through the software and it was arranged interviews. If I have any employed someone I paid £1000 plus vat. The problem was the technology was not perfect at searching through CVs so if I was looking for a particular accreditation that was fine but if the CV was a bit woolly I would miss it. A few tweaks to that system and it would be great and there would be a lot of “spunktrumpets” out looking for new job
I must admit some of the talk here about the fees being paid, and what they are for, seems pretty astounding to me.
I usually have to work on a success basis, no placement, no fee. the ultimate performance based business! Finally after nearly two years I've found a marketing manager for, let's call it an iconic soft drinks brand. My fee will be around £8.5k. Normally I find that if I have presented 3-4 on-brief candidates we will have the right one. In this case he was candidate no 25. In fact, earlier in the year the local CEO, a very nice guy, offered that I should invoice him something for all the work I had done so far in vain, we agreed on around £3.5k. He did this because he knew that many of those failures were on their side, the machinations of people in the company but outside the territory, sticking their noses in - yes, those wonderful HR people again; and also because he expects to leave the company soon, and knows that he might want us to meet again sometime, somewhere.
So if as @WSS says, the business in the UK is worth £3bn per annum I do wonder about the true value of a lot of that.
When I started in IT (circa 1982) we called them pimps and they called us tarts. Any negotiation over an hourly rate was done in the pub and we generally rattled on quite happily... oh those days!
I'm a freelance accountant working through my own ltd co. I use three agencies, two of whom I value for their integrity and understanding of where I will fit in and add value, and one which is much more a commodity dealer, me and my kind being the commodity. Though I also get the occasional contract through my network and hate using the commodity monkeys, they do keep coming up with things. Once you accept that they're scheisters, and that if youre unsuccessful you probably wont even get interview feedback despite perhaps having lost half a day's income and incurred cost in getting to the meeting in the first place, then it's tolerable. But the two firms who are very professional and helpful (Equity FD and Eton Bridge Partners) are clearly head and shoulders above the others. There are hundreds out there, just for my sector, but I refuse even to speak to arseholes like Michael Page, who are crap whether you're hiring or looking. And so thick that they dont seem to appreciate that if they treat you badly as a candidate then you are never going to use them when you're recruiting.
The barriers to entry are very low in that business.
When I started in IT (circa 1982) we called them pimps and they called us tarts. Any negotiation over an hourly rate was done in the pub and we generally rattled on quite happily... oh those days!
Those were indeed the days. Agencies came and went in no time - their monogrammed mugs and pens lasted longer than the company in most instances but everyone seemed to make money. The pimps had absolutely no idea what the contents of my CV actually meant but if the buzz words correlated to the job spec I got a call. At some point I think there was an attempt to "professionalise" the recruitment industry, but IMHO it failed, as they seem even worse now, and they're all about 12 years old.
I think the difference between these types of industries and black cabs or car production or whatever, is that technology and automation helps multinationals increase profits (uber, Ford) whilst shafting the working class....... that’s after all business!
In industries like this and in finance, I feel there will be too much to lose for most of the players, for any kind of ‘modernisation’ to be taken seriously. Closed shop.
I think the difference between these types of industries and black cabs or car production or whatever, is that technology and automation helps multinationals increase profits (uber, Ford) whilst shafting the working class....... that’s after all business!
In industries like this and in finance, I feel there will be too much to lose for most of the players, for any kind of ‘modernisation’ to be taken seriously. Closed shop.
Many working class people are recruitment consultants or work in finance....it's a Blairite myth that you are automatically middle class because you work in an office even though in many cases you'll earn far less than the average sparks, chippie, plumber or other traditionally working class jobs.
Worked in shopfitting recruitment for 3 years a lifetime ago and some of the blokes and ladies were as working class as the chaps we were getting work for.
Very much doubt they would have even as much of a voice as cabbies in the face of automation...as this thread proves they're not the most fondly thought of sector.
Some very good honest and decent people in the industry but in my experience it is plagued with a disproportionately high number of twunts who would sell their nans out if it helped them bullshit their way to another gaudy chunky watch and silly fat knotted tie.
I must admit some of the talk here about the fees being paid, and what they are for, seems pretty astounding to me.
I usually have to work on a success basis, no placement, no fee. the ultimate performance based business! Finally after nearly two years I've found a marketing manager for, let's call it an iconic soft drinks brand. My fee will be around £8.5k. Normally I find that if I have presented 3-4 on-brief candidates we will have the right one. In this case he was candidate no 25. In fact, earlier in the year the local CEO, a very nice guy, offered that I should invoice him something for all the work I had done so far in vain, we agreed on around £3.5k. He did this because he knew that many of those failures were on their side, the machinations of people in the company but outside the territory, sticking their noses in - yes, those wonderful HR people again; and also because he expects to leave the company soon, and knows that he might want us to meet again sometime, somewhere.
So if as @WSS says, the business in the UK is worth £3bn per annum I do wonder about the true value of a lot of that.
bloody hell...we're back on the Red Bull again!!!!
I think the higher up the scale you go in terms of job role, pay and skillset, the better the consultant
If you look at where there is a very real war for talent in the digital skills sector, I would imagine you really need to know how to engage with passive talent and identify people open to moving
People in coding, data science and other such roles are at a real premium. Companies really are handing over money for such roles as the marketplace is fiercely competitive.
If you purport to be a recruiter placing those individuals I would imagine you really have to fight hard to convince them to want to be placed by you
Further down the food chain I would imagine it’s a bit of a free for all as the talent isn’t specialist
As WSS pointed out various new recruitment tech start ups have burst onto the scene and more traditional tech like job boards but recruitment consultants are still here
Is a people orientated role and it always will be which means I don’t believe the robots will be taking over just yet
I am interested to see what happens with google going up against all the job boards though. Got some pretty big household names like Monster & Indeed being in their line of sight
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Shopping and banking online has had massive effects on the high street. Today M&S has announced closing 100 shops.
Estate agents and job agencies are few are far between on the high street. Competition is making is hard so I can only assume this will continue.
I worked as an IT contractor at the same place for nearly 8 years and the contract was renewed every 6 to 12 months. The agency took a commission on an hourly rate but didn't do a great deal for it. I struggled to get them to reduce the commission so I could get a pay rise, so I don't think much of them.
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Shopping and banking online has had massive effects on the high street. Today M&S has announced closing 100 shops.
Estate agents and job agencies are few are far between on the high street. Competition is making is hard so I can only assume this will continue.
I worked as an IT contractor at the same place for nearly 8 years and the contract was renewed every 6 to 12 months. The agency took a commission on an hourly rate but didn't do a great deal for it. I struggled to get them to reduce the commission so I could get a pay rise, so I don't think much of them.
I was at a place for 3 years and the everybody's salary was a secret, as was the commission the agent got. Anyway, I nearly didn't take the job because the rate was low and the agent said there was nothing he could do. So when I left I had a frank discussion with the boss, saying I was leaving to get more money he replied saying I was their highest paid contractor! Turns out the fecking agent was on 26%. If he'd reduced his fee by 5% I'd have stayed on - I don't see how that is good business for him, me or the client.
what would an employer normally pay as a finders fee to a recruitment agency. 10% of annual salary? 20%? I’m talking about in the banking sector here.
When I started in recruitment in 2005 it was 20-25% in Banking for perm recruitment. Most of the Big 4 and Banks dropped to 15-17% by the time I left the industry in 2014. I'm told fees haven't gone up.
Contract recruitment was 12-15% margin but when I left it was usually 10-12% with a slide down scale over 12-18 months. Barclays Capital at the time went down to 2% after 18 months and Deutsche Bank would take the contractor directly after 12 months. I believe HSBC has followed the same model (although they’re all managed by Resource Solutions so no real surprise).
That was for IT. Some Banks had different fees for different skills.
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
I’ve not had that many jobs but all the ones I have got are by word of mouth/reputation
Surely anyone any good gets a job the same way.
Not having a go at the industry but most I have come across have got no clue about your expertise, I often get random calls about jobs I’m either over or under qualified for or have no experience
Don’t get many ugly recruitment people though WSS aside
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
Have a lie down
I will, ta. Next week in fact, for two weeks, between jobs I negotiated myself, saving both employers a pretty decent sum of money. A generous portion of which therefore went into my pocket, rather than some shyster who couldn't even be arsed to do a word search on my CV
Overpaid useless *****ers, never use them, never understand what you want and flood you with useless CV's, thereafter look perplexed when you tell them they are *****s.
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
Have a lie down
I will, ta. Next week in fact, for two weeks, between jobs I negotiated myself, saving both employers a pretty decent sum of money. A generous portion of which therefore went into my pocket, rather than some shyster who couldn't even be arsed to do a word search on my CV
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
From most of those examples there were and is new skills and opportunities related to those industries that some take and others don’t. Unfortunately and stating the obvious, not so many people are needed. Where I started work there were 6 draughtsman/designers, all of them could make a washer look complex, front, side, sectioned and an isometric views. Then a title block with the various info to fill it. Then redo the lot inked in on film before passing it up for approval. Drawing took them an age. They were all intelligent but to a man could not see their skills were no longer relevant. I had one tell me there is no personality in a CAD drawing. He may well have been correct but I’m still drawing only with a mouse. The next mass unemployer for those in the wider world who won’t keep up will be and probably is already is additive engineering or 3D printing to give it the hobbyists name. I hear the same rubbish talked as I did with the drawing office staff 35 years ago.
My biggest gripe with recruiters is 99% of them have absolutely no expertise in the field they are trying to get you a job in, but they are so arrogant (the ones i've spoken to) that they think they know it all. Would never use one.
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
From most of those examples there were and is new skills and opportunities related to those industries that some take and others don’t. Unfortunately and stating the obvious, not so many people are needed. Where I started work there were 6 draughtsman/designers, all of them could make a washer look complex, front, side, sectioned and an isometric views. Then a title block with the various info to fill it. Then redo the lot inked in on film before passing it up for approval. Drawing took them an age. They were all intelligent but to a man could not see their skills were no longer relevant. I had one tell me there is no personality in a CAD drawing. He may well have been correct but I’m still drawing only with a mouse. The next mass unemployer for those in the wider world who won’t keep up will be and probably is already is additive engineering or 3D printing to give it the hobbyists name. I hear the same rubbish talked as I did with the drawing office staff 35 years ago.
40 years ago my Technical Drawing teacher told me if I got an O Level in TD I'd never be out of work!
There is a huge disconnect between what recruiters think is a good recruiter and what a candidate / client thinks is a good recruiter.
Ultimately, if you’re a candidate engaging with a recruiter you immediately become a commodity.
The good news is that recruiters are killing their own industry with that attitude as it makes them completely replacable once Artificial Intelligence matures.
Wrong, recruiters won’t ever be replaced by AI. It’s a people business that machines can’t replace.
Nope. Literally no reason for recruitment consultants for anything other than extremely niche, high end roles any more. There will always be a need for a shit filter to chuck out the dross, but that's all 90% of recruitment agencies are. I can't speak for other industries, but IT is absolutely horrendous. I've lost count of the number of horror stories with recruiters I have seen over the years.
Nope, there are plenty of people and business making huge money for low skilled, high volume roles.
You're not getting it. I'm telling you that there is no REASON for recruitment agents to exist at that level. Just because they still exist doesn't mean its a worthwhile industry - it just means its dead and doesn't know it yet. AI will kill it stone dead, once firms realise they don't have to pay some shyster 3 grand for a shop assistant - Amazon will have a tool for that soon.
Laughable
Just what my uncle said when he trained as a draughtsman in the mid eighties. Then CAD came and fucked him out of a job after years of college.
Just what black cabbies said before Uber.
Just what car assembly line workers said just before they replaced them all with robots.
Just what bank clerks thought before ATMs came out.
All of those jobs are more skilled than recruitment consultants. Start looking for something else quickly - won't be long before there's an app to replace your job.
From most of those examples there were and is new skills and opportunities related to those industries that some take and others don’t. Unfortunately and stating the obvious, not so many people are needed. Where I started work there were 6 draughtsman/designers, all of them could make a washer look complex, front, side, sectioned and an isometric views. Then a title block with the various info to fill it. Then redo the lot inked in on film before passing it up for approval. Drawing took them an age. They were all intelligent but to a man could not see their skills were no longer relevant. I had one tell me there is no personality in a CAD drawing. He may well have been correct but I’m still drawing only with a mouse. The next mass unemployer for those in the wider world who won’t keep up will be and probably is already is additive engineering or 3D printing to give it the hobbyists name. I hear the same rubbish talked as I did with the drawing office staff 35 years ago.
40 years ago my Technical Drawing teacher told me if I got an O Level in TD I'd never be out of work!
He was probably correct, if you had the ability to learn and gain a qualification in that subject you certainly would be able to draw on a computer, I find it a dam sight easier than with pencils. I had similar conversation with one of my teachers. I still make things for a living after 38 years of it, not the same as it was all those years ago but I've never really had trouble getting work. The problem I've had is money , the wiliness of employers to pay for my limited skills.
Anyway, recruitment consultants, my experience of them is not great. They seemed to have selective vision when looking at my CV a few years back they saw the CAD/CAM bit nothing else, and then asked if I'd like to work as an architectural technician. I know absolutely nothing about building and had nothing on my CV to say otherwise.
Tend to find that the good operational people in HR get promoted quickly to management and that's why you can often get a bad impression of the people at the coal face.
Also, it helps to remember they are there to protect the business as opposed to the employee, keep that in mind and you'll probably stop being disappointed by HR!
Tend to find that the good operational people in HR get promoted quickly to management and that's why you can often get a bad impression of the people at the coal face.
Also, it helps to remember they are there to protect the business as opposed to the employee, keep that in mind and you'll probably stop being disappointed by HR!
Really? I've encountered plenty of senior HR people who were absolute dogshit at their jobs and had literally been promoted because they were too incompetent at doing actual work and had to be moved away from it. Common practice in the public sector, where HR departments at senior levels are a graveyard of incompetent twats and tarts who were getting in the way of overworked people doing a real job (largely I suspect because it's very difficult to fire anyone in the public sector for being shit)
Tend to find that the good operational people in HR get promoted quickly to management and that's why you can often get a bad impression of the people at the coal face.
Also, it helps to remember they are there to protect the business as opposed to the employee, keep that in mind and you'll probably stop being disappointed by HR!
Absolutely spot on.
It is amazing how many employees use the phrase "I'll take this to HR" as if HR exist as the employees' advocate.
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I did work with the company a few years ago where you could search for what you are looking for on a CV and it would look at all the job boards. You could then invited to interview at that point through the software and it was arranged interviews. If I have any employed someone I paid £1000 plus vat.
The problem was the technology was not perfect at searching through CVs so if I was looking for a particular accreditation that was fine but if the CV was a bit woolly I would miss it. A few tweaks to that system and it would be great and there would be a lot of “spunktrumpets” out looking for new job
I usually have to work on a success basis, no placement, no fee. the ultimate performance based business! Finally after nearly two years I've found a marketing manager for, let's call it an iconic soft drinks brand. My fee will be around £8.5k. Normally I find that if I have presented 3-4 on-brief candidates we will have the right one. In this case he was candidate no 25. In fact, earlier in the year the local CEO, a very nice guy, offered that I should invoice him something for all the work I had done so far in vain, we agreed on around £3.5k. He did this because he knew that many of those failures were on their side, the machinations of people in the company but outside the territory, sticking their noses in - yes, those wonderful HR people again; and also because he expects to leave the company soon, and knows that he might want us to meet again sometime, somewhere.
So if as @WSS says, the business in the UK is worth £3bn per annum I do wonder about the true value of a lot of that.
And accountants who are given roles in the Public Sector well outside their knowledge of numbers.
Though I also get the occasional contract through my network and hate using the commodity monkeys, they do keep coming up with things. Once you accept that they're scheisters, and that if youre unsuccessful you probably wont even get interview feedback despite perhaps having lost half a day's income and incurred cost in getting to the meeting in the first place, then it's tolerable. But the two firms who are very professional and helpful (Equity FD and Eton Bridge Partners) are clearly head and shoulders above the others. There are hundreds out there, just for my sector, but I refuse even to speak to arseholes like Michael Page, who are crap whether you're hiring or looking. And so thick that they dont seem to appreciate that if they treat you badly as a candidate then you are never going to use them when you're recruiting.
The barriers to entry are very low in that business.
In industries like this and in finance, I feel there will be too much to lose for most of the players, for any kind of ‘modernisation’ to be taken seriously. Closed shop.
Worked in shopfitting recruitment for 3 years a lifetime ago and some of the blokes and ladies were as working class as the chaps we were getting work for.
Very much doubt they would have even as much of a voice as cabbies in the face of automation...as this thread proves they're not the most fondly thought of sector.
Some very good honest and decent people in the industry but in my experience it is plagued with a disproportionately high number of twunts who would sell their nans out if it helped them bullshit their way to another gaudy chunky watch and silly fat knotted tie.
If you look at where there is a very real war for talent in the digital skills sector, I would imagine you really need to know how to engage with passive talent and identify people open to moving
People in coding, data science and other such roles are at a real premium. Companies really are handing over money for such roles as the marketplace is fiercely competitive.
If you purport to be a recruiter placing those individuals I would imagine you really have to fight hard to convince them to want to be placed by you
Further down the food chain I would imagine it’s a bit of a free for all as the talent isn’t specialist
As WSS pointed out various new recruitment tech start ups have burst onto the scene and more traditional tech like job boards but recruitment consultants are still here
Is a people orientated role and it always will be which means I don’t believe the robots will be taking over just yet
I am interested to see what happens with google going up against all the job boards though. Got some pretty big household names like Monster & Indeed being in their line of sight
Contract recruitment was 12-15% margin but when I left it was usually 10-12% with a slide down scale over 12-18 months. Barclays Capital at the time went down to 2% after 18 months and Deutsche Bank would take the contractor directly after 12 months. I believe HSBC has followed the same model (although they’re all managed by Resource Solutions so no real surprise).
That was for IT. Some Banks had different fees for different skills.
Surely anyone any good gets a job the same way.
Not having a go at the industry but most I have come across have got no clue about your expertise, I often get random calls about jobs I’m either over or under qualified for or have no experience
Don’t get many ugly recruitment people though WSS aside
But some phone me and demand 25% upto £40k and 30% for anything greater. That’s where I tend to swear. A lot.
Most else comes through linked in below £90k and through personal knowledge above that.
Wouldn’t want to be a recruiter in a linked in world. Don’t miss dealing with them.
HR can be woeful or fantastic.
Where I started work there were 6 draughtsman/designers, all of them could make a washer look complex, front, side, sectioned and an isometric views. Then a title block with the various info to fill it. Then redo the lot inked in on film before passing it up for approval. Drawing took them an age. They were all intelligent but to a man could not see their skills were no longer relevant. I had one tell me there is no personality in a CAD drawing. He may well have been correct but I’m still drawing only with a mouse.
The next mass unemployer for those in the wider world who won’t keep up will be and probably is already is additive engineering or 3D printing to give it the hobbyists name. I hear the same rubbish talked as I did with the drawing office staff 35 years ago.
I had similar conversation with one of my teachers. I still make things for a living after 38 years of it, not the same as it was all those years ago but I've never really had trouble getting work. The problem I've had is money , the wiliness of employers to pay for my limited skills.
Anyway, recruitment consultants, my experience of them is not great. They seemed to have selective vision when looking at my CV a few years back they saw the CAD/CAM bit nothing else, and then asked if I'd like to work as an architectural technician. I know absolutely nothing about building and had nothing on my CV to say otherwise.
Also, it helps to remember they are there to protect the business as opposed to the employee, keep that in mind and you'll probably stop being disappointed by HR!
It is amazing how many employees use the phrase "I'll take this to HR" as if HR exist as the employees' advocate.